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AMD is a company(profit maker) after all!

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  • Performance
  • AMD
  • Nvidia
  • Graphics
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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 14, 2009 4:10:03 AM

AMD is not going to give us great performance at bargain price anymore due to nVidia being out of competition. Their current HD5xxx card's performance is not so great for its price and the HD5770 is a good example. They are doing exactly same as what they did in the CPU market when Intel was with the Pentium Dual Core series. Hope that nVidia can take back the throne with their GT300 so that people will be able to get great bargains.

AMD is not as considerate of consumers as many people think and so they don't deserve sympathy for their current difficult situation in the CPU market. AMD is also a commercial organization after all.

Competition is all what we need! Wake up, nVidia!

More about : amd company profit maker

October 14, 2009 4:29:51 AM

Quote:
Their current HD5xxx card's performance is not so great for its price and the HD5770 is a good example. They are doing exactly same as what they did in the CPU market when Intel was with the Pentium Dual Core series.


While the main point of your post is accurate (we need nVidia's direct X11 cards to maintain an aggressive GPU market), you seem to be misunderstanding some of the reasoning behind ATI's prices. It isn't all about gouging costs to make a bundle while nVidia's out of the picture, briefly or not.

The 5770 is not as cheap as it should be, true. But why? It's performance is relatively that of a 4870, which is older technology. So if you were in the same boat as ATI, what would you do? Make sure the 48xxs are distributed before completely replacing it with the newer 57xx series. If the 5750 and 5770 were both equal to or below the prices of the 48xx series...who would buy the older cards? Nobody, except a few who are cross firing. Why would ATI purposely shoot themselves in the foot and get stuck with a bundle of 4850s and 4870s before direct X11 software is truly even ready for the hardware?

And to say the 5850 and 5870 are not a bargain price for the performance and features they bring to the table is a bit ridiculous.
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 4:35:33 AM

While I agree we need competition, the 57xx series will drop in price, as the lower 4xxx series EOLs, and clears stock.
Also, I think everyone needs to step back a second, and see what theyre getting for so lil money.
If ATIs prices are soooo high, why doesnt nBidia just lower THEIR prices and take over on the cards they DO have out?
Related resources
October 14, 2009 5:00:03 AM

Aah. What do you expect it to be a Socialist. LOL.

IF you research the last 1-2 years for the prices of new gpu introduced, I will say that at least AMD/ATI is not charging over the roof prices.

When the 8800 ultra/alpha dogs came out there was little competition from ATI so they charged *$600-$800 prices for their gpus. It was a xmas nightmare for me. Which soon dropped to 1/2 as soon ATI had cards @ par Nvidia.

At least AMD/ATI got a very nice performance/price/product at a decent price which most can afford. IMO AMD is very considerate.


Good job Amd/Ati.
PS: Yes, we need competition.
October 14, 2009 6:03:58 AM

Quote:
The 5770 is not as cheap as it should be, true. But why? It's performance is relatively that of a 4870, which is older technology. So if you were in the same boat as ATI, what would you do? Make sure the 48xxs are distributed before completely replacing it with the newer 57xx series.

It's true! However, you are talking in the view of the businessman instead of us, the consumers. Why should we customers care about what those commercial organisations think while they only care about our money?

Quote:
And to say the 5850 and 5870 are not a bargain price for the performance and features they bring to the table is a bit ridiculous.

I don't consider the HD5870/HD5850 as a bargain, as it is no better than the GTX295 which is a old card with its price not being much lower. ATI used to make the not much but significantly better new card cheaper than the previous series. In addition, some peoples might say the power efficiency has been greatly improved. Yes, it is true but they were able to and could do it earlier.
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 6:10:50 AM

andy5174 said:
Quote:
The 5770 is not as cheap as it should be, true. But why? It's performance is relatively that of a 4870, which is older technology. So if you were in the same boat as ATI, what would you do? Make sure the 48xxs are distributed before completely replacing it with the newer 57xx series.

It's true! However, you are talking in the view of the businessman instead of us, the consumers. Why should we customers care about what those commercial organisations think while they only care about our money?

Quote:
And to say the 5850 and 5870 are not a bargain price for the performance and features they bring to the table is a bit ridiculous.

I don't consider the HD5870/HD5850 as a bargain, as it is no better than the GTX295 which is a old card with its price not being much lower. ATI used to make the not much but significantly better new card cheaper than the previous series. In addition, some peoples might say the power efficiency has been greatly improved. Yes, it is true but they were able to and could do it earlier.


Go away. We don't need any more people stirring up nonsense around here. This just a sugar-coated version of what you're really trying to say which is nothing important or insightful at all. And before you go on ranting, I don't really care about ATi or NVidia and how they choose their pricing, it all falls in line and the price on all of the new generation ATi cards at the moment are completely reasonable. Are they bargain basement sales? No, but they shouldn't be, they're BRAND NEW.

The 5870 is $80 less than the cheapest GTX 295 and offers on-par or better performance with a huge amount less power consumption and heat, not to mention DirectX 11 and Eyefinity/Stream support. The GTX 295 is two old cards.

Also, your avatar is dumb.
October 14, 2009 6:13:32 AM

Looks like the OP is feeling the AMD/ATI Pinch..... :p 
October 14, 2009 6:22:28 AM

@ brockh:

HD5870 $729NZD

GTX295 $756NZD

Much cheaper? You are blind!
October 14, 2009 6:26:04 AM

witcherx said:
Looks like the OP is feeling the AMD/ATI Pinch..... :p 

Not at all.

I just stand on the customers' view. Of course, we customers want bargains which AMD USED to offer when nVidia was there.
October 14, 2009 6:35:11 AM

andy5174 said:
we customers want bargains which AMD USED to offer when nVidia was there.


Please don't lump the rest of us into the same category as you ;P Yes, us customers want bargains, which we got. In the coming months that bargain will become even more profound. You, however, apparently want to be given your GPU at cost value regardless of how the manufacturing company stands to lose from your insane demands. I suppose if you had your way, ATI would sell at cost, go bankrupt, and nVidia would again raise their top single GPUs to over $600 a pop. Sounds good to me, yeah? I think you're confusing bargain pricing with charity.

Also, please don't try to use wonky exchange rates in New Zealand as a way to pretend that the 5870 is anywhere near the same price as the GTX 295 ;P

Stop trolling!
October 14, 2009 6:38:22 AM

kohd said:
Please don't lump the rest of us into the same category as you ;P Yes, us customers want bargains, which we got. In the coming months that bargain will become even more profound. You, however, apparently want to be given your GPU at cost value regardless of how the manufacturing company stands to lose from your insane demands. I suppose if you had your way, ATI would sell at cost, go bankrupt, and nVidia would again raise their top single GPUs to over $600 a pop. Sounds good to me, yeah?

Also, please don't try to use wonky exchange rates in New Zealand as a way to pretend that the 5870 is anywhere near the same price as the GTX 295 ;P

Stop trolling!

You obviously not us, customers, but a greedy businessman!

In addition, AMD is/was the one who try to pinch customers when nVidia/Intel is/was out of competition
October 14, 2009 6:40:39 AM

andy5174 said:
You obviously not us, customers, but a greedy businessman!


That could very well be!

Or, I am the average consumer willing to pay for a product I deem worthy...and you're a kid whose parents won't pay $375 for a top of the line ATI GPU?
October 14, 2009 6:42:40 AM

It like when Nvidia got this cuda stuff.. every 1 went cuda ha cuda ho...

Dont just compare the price. Also check the other hidden +++ technology offerings from ATI/AMD
1. Multi x3, x6,x24 monitor support.
2. Tessalation
3. DirectCompute.

IMO ATI/AMD has come out with the best price/performance/product till date for us customers. Ofcourse they would want to milk some profits.

Going by the history of new product launches, if it would be Nvidia launching a new product before ATI they would be charging $800 + plus for their cards.
Read the 4th post above
October 14, 2009 6:43:21 AM

kohd said:
That could very well be!

Or, I am the average consumer willing to pay for a product I deem worthy...and you're a kid whose parents won't pay $375 for a top of the line ATI GPU?


This is not the place for greedy businessman like you and leave please. This forum is for customers who are looking for bargain info!
October 14, 2009 6:47:07 AM

It like when Nvidia got this cuda stuff.. every 1 went cuda ha cuda ho...

Dont just compare the price. Also check the other hidden +++ technology offerings from ATI/AMD
1. Multi x3, x6,x24 monitor support.
2. Tessalation
3. DirectCompute.

IMO ATI/AMD has come out with the best price/performance/product till date for us customers. Ofcourse they would want to milk some profits.

Going by the history of new product launches, if it would be Nvidia launching a new product before ATI they would be charging $800 + plus for their cards.
Read the 4th post above

October 14, 2009 6:47:29 AM

AMD: $8000USD would be good for HD5870
kohd(sucking at AMD's toe): too cheap! make it more expensive! Please, my lord!
October 14, 2009 6:50:39 AM

Looking at your other posts in other threads.
I bet the OP is feeling the AMD/ATI Pinch..... :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p 
October 14, 2009 6:52:19 AM

brockh said:


The 5870 is $80 less than the cheapest GTX 295 and offers on-par or better performance


I smell an ATIfanboy here :non: 
If you look some benchmarks you will see that the GTX 295 is faster almost in any situation.
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,696698/Ati-Radeon-HD...

Yes, the GTX295 is just too expensive now almost the same price as it cost in the release date. There is no point to get a GTX295 now(it is very old rusty card), the 5870x2 and GTX300series are only a few mouths away. But back then in January the GTX295 was Best Bang for Buck! 499 € while the 4870x2 was 469 € and the GTX260 was 250 €.

October 14, 2009 6:53:05 AM

witcherx said:
Looking at your other posts in other threads.
I bet the OP is feeling the AMD/ATI Pinch..... :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p 


Why don't you mention the threads that I recommended HD5870 over GTX295? I am NOT fan boys who support their favorite brand no matter what.
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 6:54:10 AM

andy5174 said:
@ brockh:

HD5870 $729NZD

GTX295 $756NZD

Much cheaper? You are blind!


HD 5870
GTX 295

$85 USD difference. The majority of people here will find that the US dollar will be more relevant to them; Much more, especially someone who's actually trying to find them honest prices. I'm done posting in this thread.

michaelmk86 said:
I smell an ATIfanboy here :non: 
If you look some benchmarks you will see that the GTX 295 is faster almost in any situation.
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,696698/Ati-Radeon-HD...

Yes, the GTX295 is just too expensive now almost the same price as it cost in the release date. There is no point to get a GTX295 now(it is very old rusty card), the 5870x2 and GTX300series are only a few mouths away. But back then in January the GTX295 was Best Bang for Buck! 499 € while the 4870x2 was 469 € and the GTX260 was 250 €.


Sure does look like someone is hand picking their benchmarks here.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,696698/Ati-Radeon-HD...

Which card is winning there? The 5870? And what's also beating it? The 285 too? Start making posts when you have a point.
October 14, 2009 6:57:01 AM

brockh said:
HD 5870
GTX 295

$85 difference. The majority of people here will find that the US dollar will be more relevant to them; Much more, especially someone who's actually trying to find them honest prices. I'm done posting in this thread.

Great, thank you very much! I don't have any intention in talking to rude peoples.
October 14, 2009 7:02:42 AM

Ya but you putting up the opinion <<AMD is not as
Quote:
considerate
of consumers >>
is not correct.
Check on the CPU side also It is because of AMD one can get a quad for under $100.
And this has kept the Intel CPU prices in check otherwise we would be buying that celeron $%$%

Same speaks of gpu. It is because of Amd/Ati that you are not shelling out $800-$1000 for Nvidia. If that would be the case you would be stuck with some geForce FX 5200 card LOL
October 14, 2009 7:10:36 AM

witcherx said:
Ya but you putting up the opinion <<AMD is not as
Quote:
considerate
of consumers >>
is not correct.
Check on the CPU side also It is because of AMD one can get a quad for under $100.
And this has kept the Intel CPU prices in check otherwise we would be buying that celeron $%$%

Same speaks of gpu. It is because of Amd/Ati that you are not shelling out $800-$1000 for Nvidia. If that would be the case you would be stuck with some geForce FX 5200 card LOL

My point was that "ATI is the one who pinch us RIGHT NOW". I didn't mean that I want AMD to disappear so that Intel and nVidia can rape us!

p.s. ATI is not as considerate of customers as many people, especially ATI fan boys, think they are
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 7:12:12 AM

If the pricing in NZ is extremely high, as you say, theres nothing that can be done right now, and you should blame those greedy NZ business men, and not ATI, where the 5870 is cheaper everywhere else on the planet Ive seen so far.
Im sure you could find an exception, but thats exactly what it is, an exception.
The 5870 trades blows with the 295 when you use higher settings, which these cards are for anyways, so with beta drivers, it isnt do to bad.
The 5770 will prove out to be between the 4870 and the 4890, except in DX11 games, where itll lose, the the 5870 will win.
Not sure why having to wait for lower prices is a bad thing, nVidia doesnt even have a card out to buy, and like youre saying, you can buy old stuff as well.
Why is it when you buy a brand new car, its value drops 3000$ the second you drive it off the lot?
Thats business, get used to it, it makes the world spin round
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 7:16:12 AM

Ive seen plenty of benchmarks, most of them actually, and yes, the 295 wins the majority, but thats only for now, and on older games.
DX11 and newer drivers will change this picture, and as Ive said before, be careful what you say, as people do remember, and with the x2 cards coming later, some of the DX11 games will be here and be benched, as wwell as better drivers for the 5870 by then as well.
The pricing is 25% higher for the 295, and its clearly nowheres near 25% better.
October 14, 2009 7:19:41 AM

andy5174 said:
p.s. ATI is not as considerate of customers as many people, especially ATI fan boys, think they are


1) Just because someone isn't bashing ATI, like you are, doesn't make them a fanboy. That term has been used to death by irrational people like you ;) 
2) You are, once again, confusing customer consideration with charity. When you grow up and experience how the world works first-hand, you'll understand.

G'nite
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 7:21:11 AM

andy5174 said:
@ brockh:

HD5870 $729NZD

GTX295 $756NZD

Much cheaper? You are blind!

The same is true in Australia. Not a major price difference. But our supply is very low, so the few retailers that have stock dictate the price.
October 14, 2009 7:21:44 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
If the pricing in NZ is extremely high, as you say, theres nothing that can be done right now, and you should blame those greedy NZ business men, and not ATI, where the 5870 is cheaper everywhere else on the planet Ive seen so far.
Im sure you could find an exception, but thats exactly what it is, an exception.
The 5870 trades blows with the 295 when you use higher settings, which these cards are for anyways, so with beta drivers, it isnt do to bad.
The 5770 will prove out to be between the 4870 and the 4890, except in DX11 games, where itll lose, the the 5870 will win.
Not sure why having to wait for lower prices is a bad thing, nVidia doesnt even have a card out to buy, and like youre saying, you can buy old stuff as well.
Why is it when you buy a brand new car, its value drops 3000$ the second you drive it off the lot?
Thats business, get used to it, it makes the world spin round


Not only in NZ! As far as I know, the prices in Australia is very similar to in NZ! OK, OK, OK this is American's forum. Lucky Americans!

I am sorry for mentioning the NZ prices.
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 7:24:31 AM

The prices here are about $200 less, but remember that your supply will likely be even lower than ours, plus your dollar is weaker. The price difference between the GTX 295 and HD 5870 is similar though, as I mentioned above.
October 14, 2009 7:25:41 AM

kohd said:
1) Just because someone isn't bashing ATI, like you are, doesn't make them a fanboy. That term has been used to death by irrational people like you ;) 
2) You are, once again, confusing customer consideration with charity. When you grow up and experience how the world works first-hand, you'll understand.

G'nite

OMG, leave us alone. Stop pretending to be one of the customers, you greedy businesman!

BTW, the retailers in NZ who sell HD5770 also sold HD4xxx. Thus, it's ATI's problem not the retailers unless it's those retailers like you become much greedier this year.
October 14, 2009 7:28:50 AM

andy5174 said:
My point was that "ATI is the one who pinch us RIGHT NOW". I didn't mean that I want AMD to disappear so that Intel and nVidia can rape us!

p.s. ATI is not as considerate of customers as many people, especially ATI fan boys, think they are



YO! Gods light finally shown upon you and you answered your OP yourself.
Intel/Nvidia would have raped us if AMD/ATI wouldnt be there. Its not the other way around. So unknowingly you agreed AMD/ATI prices are very very considerate.

Its just that Bus in NZ are charging their premium over the enthusiam of the ATI cards.

:p 
October 14, 2009 7:31:08 AM

witcherx said:
YO! Gods light finally shown upon you and you answered your OP yourself.
Intel/Nvidia would have raped us if AMD/ATI wouldnt be there. Its not the other way around. So unknowingly you agreed AMD/ATI prices are very very considerate.

Its just that Bus in NZ are charging their premium over the enthusiam of the ATI cards.

Sleep Well. :p 

Can you even think well, ATI fan boy?

Intel and nVidia is not raping us now. It's AMD.
p.s. Do you know the meaning of "now"?

OMG, it's so hard to get fan boys think properly!
October 14, 2009 7:36:07 AM

Yeah, Intel and nVidia would have raped us if AMD weren't there.

However, AMD is the one who IS RAPING US "RIGHT NOW"! Hence, we need nVidia to be there, otherwise customers get rapped by AMD.

Did I say that I want AMD to disappear? No, I never. Get your brains cool down, you AMD fan boy.
October 14, 2009 7:39:04 AM

THESE AMD FAN BOYS CAN'T TOLERATE EVEN A SINGLE BAD OPINION ON THE HDXXXX CARD! omg

I bet them got rapped cheerfully by AMD back in 2005 when Intel was with the so doomed Pentium Dual Core.
October 14, 2009 7:42:10 AM

Intel/ATi for me. Intel for my cpu and ati for gpu. I just do what ever i can to not pick sides so that i can be on the side of not picking a side.
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 7:45:26 AM

OK, here, the 295 wins, but with better drivers, itll lose.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=17
And here, it loses
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/2...
So, its plain to see, at this point, theres work to do for the ATI driver team, and the 295 is overpriced comparatively, since its old, like you said, and wont play well against DX11 cards in DX11 games.
The prices this time are higher than the 4xxx series, but the ONLY, and I reat, the ONLY reason why we have low pricing as we do now, is because of ATI, as certainly you must remember the intro pricing of nVidias 200 series?
Which dropped in price hugely after ATI came in with their pricing, and ATI has kept its pricing low too, making nVidia follow suit.
So, if you dont like the NZ pricing, which Ive seen you in alot of threads asking about price/perf, ATI is all about that, and you certainly have to be reasonable about the pricing of a brand new release, and if you dont explode and blow a gasket when nVidia releases their cards with their pricing when its out, I'll be here asking why
October 14, 2009 7:51:39 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
The prices this time are higher than the 4xxx series, but the ONLY, and I reat, the ONLY reason why we have low pricing as we do now, is because of ATI, as certainly you must remember the intro pricing of nVidias 200 series?
Which dropped in price hugely after ATI came in with their pricing, and ATI has kept its pricing low too, making nVidia follow suit.


Again, I didn't deny AMD's contribution in making nVidia drop the price.

What I am saying is that AMD IS on the position where nVidia was. Thus, we need nVidia to be there to make AMD drop the price.
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 7:54:59 AM

Aint going to happen. Why havnt they already dropped their prices? They could you know. Theyd steal ATIs thunder if they did, wheres the love from the green team, like we saw from ATI?
Heres something:
"NVIDIA told me two things. One, that they have shared with some OEMs that they will no longer be making GT200b based products. That’s the GTX 260 all the way up to the GTX 285. The EOL (end of life) notices went out recently and they request that the OEMs submit their allocation requests asap otherwise they risk not getting any cards.

The second was that despite the EOL notices, end users should be able to purchase GeForce GTX 260, 275 and 285 cards all the way up through February of next year. "
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3659
Whats this mean?
With nVidias MSRP , it promises to not lower its pricing without rebating the seller, and so far, we havnt seen any price drops at all, even on EOLd cards
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 7:56:02 AM

andy5174 said:
Yeah, Intel and nVidia would have raped us if AMD weren't there.

However, AMD is the one who IS RAPING US "RIGHT NOW"! Hence, we need nVidia to be there, otherwise customers get rapped by AMD.

Did I say that I want AMD to disappear? No, I never. Get your brains cool down, you AMD fan boy.


Making a generalization of a company pricing based on the prices in 1 country (which dont depend 100% on that company) is illogical. Your post should have said: 'NZ retailers are raping people with their ATI cards pricing'. Because this forum addresses people from all over the world it is expected that rants about different company pricing politics should be based upon world wide examples.
October 14, 2009 8:02:15 AM

hallowed_dragon said:
Making a generalization of a company pricing based on the prices in 1 country (which dont depend 100% on that company) is illogical. Your post should have said: 'NZ retailers are raping people with their ATI cards pricing'. Because this forum addresses people from all over the world it is expected that rants about different company pricing politics should be based upon world wide examples.

Again, it's not only in NZ! It is confirmed by an Australian that their price is similar to NZ.
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 8:03:46 AM

hallowed_dragon said:
Because this forum addresses people from all over the world it is expected that rants about different company pricing politics should be based upon world wide examples.

Except that "world wide" generally means US-only.
October 14, 2009 8:05:45 AM

randomizer said:
Except that "world wide" generally means US-only.

Agree!
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 8:11:41 AM

randomizer said:
Except that "world wide" generally means US-only.


I agree most of the readers of this forum are from US and generally all prices are shown in dollars. But as I said, US+NZ+AU =/= world wide. For me this example of rants should not be addressed in a forum thread, but in an article describing prices in at least 10 countries. For example in my country the price of a 5870 from HIS is the same as the price of a 4890 from the same company and lower than most 2xx products from nVidia (yes, even lower than a 260 factory OCed). But this is my country and not a general example.
October 14, 2009 8:15:46 AM

hallowed_dragon said:
I agree most of the readers of this forum are from US and generally all prices are shown in dollars. But as I said, US+NZ+AU =/= world wide. For me this example of rants should not be addressed in a forum thread, but in an article describing prices in at least 10 countries. For example in my country the price of a 5870 from HIS is the same as the price of a 4890 from the same company and lower than most 2xx products from nVidia (yes, even lower than a 260 factory OCed). But this is my country and not a general example.

You are the one who said this. Although you didn't have this kind of sentence in your last thread, your meaning was that "US=general=world wide"
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 8:17:54 AM

EU pricing is similar to US pricing. I think its being set up as it is, from tradition, someones making tons of money off you guys, and it isnt ATI/Intel?nVidia?OCZ/BenQ etc etc
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 8:19:58 AM

andy5174 said:
You are the one who said this. Although you didn't have this kind of sentence in your last thread, your meaning was that "US=general=world wide"


No andy, my meaning was that the whole thread doesnt have a point, nor do similar threads. We could go around discussing how ATI is raping you of all money and how ATI is an incredible deal in my country, but it would be illogical. Without a general pricing view in at least 10 countries all assumptions have no base whatsoever.
October 14, 2009 8:23:38 AM

hallowed_dragon said:
No andy, my meaning was that the whole thread doesnt have a point, nor do similar threads. We could go around discussing how ATI is raping you of all money and how ATI is an incredible deal in my country, but it would be illogical. Without a general pricing view in at least 10 countries all assumptions have no base whatsoever.

I am not the only one who think this way! The other Australian also think this way. Hence, I am sure it's not my misunderstanding.
a b U Graphics card
October 14, 2009 8:30:17 AM

andy5174 said:
I am not the only one who think this way! The other Australian also think this way. Hence, I am sure it's not my misunderstanding.


Let me try this again. andy, randomizer =>2 people from 2 countries. 2<10. I will stop here, because this is nonsense.
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