1366 or 1156???

tabur · Dec 19, 2009

Hello!

I'm Buying a new PC, mainly for gaming and engineering apps, and I was looking around but I don't know which one to get.

I'm Between i5-750 (LGA 1156) and i7-920 (LGA 1336).

I can afford the extra 80 dollars, but I'm not very fond on spending more money just because, so I basically want to know if its worth the extra bucks.

EDIT:
I plan on spending around 1000 USD ONLY in Motherboard, Memory, CPU and GPU. (I already have the rest of the system)

In fact, I had a system already planned for the i5, but then I heard that the 1156 socket will probably die soon, and also I'm a bit concerned with SLI support, because I want to buy a GTX 260 now and later on 2010 buy a FERMI card and leave the 260 as a PhysX.

What do you think??? Any comments are welcome, specially facts.

Thanks!

PS: I edited the budget also, I received notice that i'm allowed to spend 200 more dollars

rockyjohn · Dec 19, 2009

With an $800 budget - or even a little more - you should go with 1156. i7 will cost and additional $300 or more because you will need a more expensive mobo and generally more memory for the 6 slots in addition to the costlier CPU.

I have seen no reliable indicator that i5 has no future but read one article that indicated it did. I think MS created the socket in part to differentiate a mainstream product to compete with AMD, in which case it would be silly of them to then discontinue it. Not only would they lose the differentiation, but would create a lot of consumer ill will and contribute to AMD's lead in following a strategy of long term continuity. That said - every socket will have an finite life.

i5 will easily support two 260s in crossfire - and two of much faster video cards - and I expect should be more than large enough to handle FERMI - although I have not seen any info on its requirements.

Now that all said, if you are doing some engineering applications that include some facets of CAD and video rendering, than i7-920 and the additional memory slots could be a significant improvement.

winkerbie · Dec 19, 2009

It really depends on what you plan to use the computer for:

If you want it for gaming with a future, and SLI/crossfire, then its best to go for the i7-920, but this will cost more. However it has HT enabled with triple channel memory. Whilst this is not a great benefit at the moment, it will show significant performance increases in the near future. Once applications are optimized to used the HT and extra channel memory. Also it will support 2 x16 PCI for SLI/Cross-fire. Also will support the 6-core processors in the near future

Whereas, mainstream tasks, you are better off with the cheaper i5, it probably wont "die out". But its technology is getting old, with Dual-channel, and no HT, plus possible lack of 6-core processor support. Also in SLI/CX the PCI becomes 2 x8 slots

Zenthar · Dec 19, 2009

If it was only for gaming, LGA1156 i5/i7 would probably have been enough, but for engineering app, the future support of 6 cores "i9" (which we now know will not be called that way) would be something valuable so I would probably go LGA1366.

rockyjohn · Dec 19, 2009

winkerbie :

Hyperthreading is in the CPU and not limited by the socket. i5-860 is socket 1156 and has HT. In comparing with going to i7 - you pay an addtional $100 (of the approximately $300 difference mentioned above) to get the HT but then don't have the triple channel memory, so it would be an intermediate choice if you games or applications take advantage of it - or you could get it later presuming you upgrade the CPU with the same socket.

With a budget of only $800-900 though, it is hard to get much more than i5 and the GTX 260. Does your budget include the OS or any peripherals?

redgarl · Dec 19, 2009

Go AMD and buy more GPU power. Get at least a 5850. With that kind of money. If you were spending at least 1500$ for your whole PC, I would have told you otherwise... but for 800$ for memory, motherboard, cpu and gpu... save yourself the purchase of a third memory stick, an overpriced motherboard, an expensive cpu and a lack of gpu power due to your budget to truly see a difference between an Intel platform and a AMD one.

Personally, investing in a cpu is not a good idea if you don't plan to put enough money in your GPU.

Intel really shine while using a crossfire setup. SLI is out of question right now with the kind of situation Nvidia is facing.

JackNaylorPE · Dec 19, 2009

rockyjohn :

Echoing what others have said, the i7 X58 will serve noticeably better on the engineering apps. For gaming, it's a matter of just how much GFX you throw at it. Tri or Quad Xfire / SLI for example gonna need X58

redgarl · Dec 19, 2009

rockyjohn :

For a single GTX260, a AMD platform is actually faster...

redgarl · Dec 19, 2009

JackNaylorPE :

I was running MATLAB on a Core 2 Duo while doing some intensive digital filters. You don't need a Core i7 for engineering applications. I would say otherwise if it was mean for heavy duty calculation related to nanotechnologies... but most engineering tools work great on a simple laptop.

I was using, Matlab, SIMULINK, MPLAB, Code Composer Studio, ORCAD suite, Grafcet and many other electrical engineering programs and I never felt I was in need of more computing power on my Core 2 Duo platform.

A PII X4 955 will be way enough and give him more flexibility for buying a more powerful GPU solution.

winkerbie · Dec 20, 2009

i7-860 does have HT, but it has limited (2 x8) SLI/CX graphics capability.

It is limited to mainstream, but Intel will make sure it lacks certain enchancements. i5 dont have HT, and early indications show that it has 20-40% performace increase, which could be more with proper optimized applications.

both i7's are really good, but the i7-900's have extra power, which is yet to be used properly (not just in the CPU but other extra hardware, e.g. RAM)

Seriously consider mainstream (i5) / future+gaming (i7-900) - more expensive

rockyjohn · Dec 20, 2009

Tabur we need some feedback:

1. What engineering aps?
As Redgarl explained, some may work very well in an 1158 setup. But others really benefit from the 1336 setup. Which do you use and have you checked to see if they benefit much from the 1336 X58 setup?

2. Can you go much over the $800 budget or is that pretty firm - as it limits you to 1158 (although depending on engineering requirements this may be more than adequate?

And a question for others that I can't answer: If he wants to stick with nVidia graphics for Physx and Fermi, how well do they run on AMD systems? I know AMD is where behind on there own versions in graphics cards, but given you plan to use an nVidia card, will the AMD CPU on an AMD supporting mobo work just as well? I have seen nothing on that. Do they work just as well offloading computations from an AMD CPU as an Intel one?

notty22 · Dec 20, 2009

If AMD hadn't raised the price on the 5850 from 269.99 to 310.00 alot of enthusiasts would have an extra 40 bucks in their pockets. Something the AMD boys are so worried about us spending on a intel cpu , lol

tabur · Dec 20, 2009

Hi! and thanks for all the replies!!!

My budget of 800 is ONLY for motherboard, GPU, CPU and memory! I think theres a misunderstanding hahahaha!

I already have a PSU (700W), a case (Thermaltake Kandalf), Storage (lots), peripherals and OS, thats why I was between i5 and i7 (otherwise it would be quite obvious to get the i5)

With that in mind, do you still recommend getting the i5???

Thanks!

tabur · Dec 20, 2009

rockyjohn :

Ok,

1.- I'll be using almost the same apps that Redgarl is using, since I'm in the same field (I saw the apps Redgarl posted and I use almost the same ones)

2.- Yes I can go over the $800, in fact i just got notice that i can spend $1000, and thats only in Motherboard, Memory, Cpu and Gpu (everything else is already bought)

Now, about AMD/ATI, it IS a possibility, but i'm not very fond of them... in fact, my home computer is AMD - ATI based and I havent had a really good overall experience... Lots of artifacts and not as fast as it could be. (old system though, s.939 X2 3800 and Radeon x1900xt)

Again, thanks for all the answers guys!!! You have been by far the best board now!

rockyjohn · Dec 20, 2009

Oh, that makes it easy. Here is what you can get:

Intel Core i7-920 Bloomfield 2.66GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor – Retail - $289
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202&cm_re=i7-920_processor-_-19-115-202-_-Product

GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard – Retail - $269
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128362

G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL7T-6GBPK – Retail - $150
Timings: 7-7-7-18
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231230

XFX GX260XAWFC GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card – Retail - $195
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150458

XIGMATEK Intel Core i7 compatible Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler - Retail - $45
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233029

TOTAL COST - $948

I included an heat sink that is much better than the one that comes with the CPU. It will help CPU run cooler at stock and better enable overclocking should you decide to do that later.

Note that I would prefer a BFG GTX 260 – there are several regular and overclocked models listed on newegg but all are out of stock at the moment. Here is one:
BFG Tech BFGEGTX260896E GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card – Retail - $175
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143139

That shows you can go top of the line. Still, you can achieve substantial savings if your engineering applications don't take advantage of the faster CPU and related components. Would you like to consdier that option or stick with the i7 option above?

tabur · Dec 20, 2009

rockyjohn :

Thanks a lot for the info!!!

Yes, I would like to consider saving money hahahaha. If theres one thing I'm sure of, is that when making choices its always wiser to make 'em fully informed

Now, before proceeding, I'd like to ask you something specific. I noticed that the G. Skill memory pack you picked is way cheaper than the one I was looking at:

CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TR3X6G1600C8D - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145224

So, if I have the possibility to buy the Dominator, is it worth it??? I heard that many 1136 boards have problems running RAM at 1600. Also, I was recommended to buy an

ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131365

which has 4 winner awards, but I was looking at the specs of the one you recommended and it looks like its just superior in every way, despite being even 20 dollars cheaper!!! Why is that??? And between those 2 motherboards, which one would you rather get?

Thanks!

PS: Do you think SATA 6GB/s is relevant??? I want to buy an SSD around october 2010, do you think it will matter?

warmon6 · Dec 20, 2009

tabur :

For the RAM, the reason why there a major price difference between what you looked at and rockyjohn found was due to the speed of the ram. You were looking at 1600 MHz ram while rockyjohn found you 1333 MHz. Scene no one can see the difference with todays programs, the 1333 MHz ram will suit you well.

For motherboards, it just brand names for the cost difference.

Rogue77777 · Dec 20, 2009

Fry's also has the I7-940 @ 2.93ghz for $330.00 until 12/24/2009

rockyjohn · Dec 20, 2009

tabur :

1. On the 1366 mobo, RAM above 1333 can only be run one per channel (one the specs see "O.C." after the faster memories", so you are limited to three sticks. The 1600 memory would be a little faster now (although tests show little if any benefit in actual gaming performance) but you can only use 3 sticks total. With the 1333, you can later, should the needs arise, add another 3 matching sticks and have 12 GB of RAM. I think it is worth protecting that option, even though todays applications also do not take advantage of the additional bandwidth. But it does allow a lot more bandwidth later than being stuck with the 1600.

2. I prefer the Gigabyte boards in the UD - Ultra Durable - series. See the article linked below. Note that it is about the UD3 rather than UD5 board, but the construction and principles still apply.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gigabyte-ultra-durable,2094.html

3. I think SATA 6GB is very relevant for future proofing, especially if considering adding an SSD. The complicatioln is that in terms of the boards currently offered, the P55 board for the 1156 socket, if you use that channel for SATA, then you have tradeoffs that I don't think you want, especially if planning a two video card configuration. I expect this will be better handled on the 1366 board (have not seen these yet) because it has more PCIe channels, and I expect there may be a new series for the 1156 socket with better implementation. You might want to instead plan to do a mobo changeout later.

So I am a little confused. You seemed to say at the top of your post that you wanted to go with a cheaper option, but then you still ask about the 1366 board in a later question.

noob2222 · Dec 20, 2009

Unless you are planning on doing 3-way GFX, stick with a dual slot MB, they are about $100 cheaper, wich will allow for a better graphics card now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010200280%201070545356%201494334966&name=2

The gigabyte UD3R is in there

rockyjohn · Dec 20, 2009

For 1156 series consider this:

Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail - $280
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115214

GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD4P LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard w/ USB 3.0 & SATA 6 Gb/s - Retail - $184
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128409

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM - Retail - $105
Timings: 7-8-7-24
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303

XFX GX260XAWFC GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card – Retail - $195
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150458

XIGMATEK Intel Core i7 compatible Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler - Retail - $45
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233029

TOTAL COST - $809
SAVINGS OVER 1336 system - $139

I stuck with the Gigabyte UD series motherboard. Note one potential issue you will have with an 1156 socket system is that the only mobo available is the P55 series which will only run two video cards at x8 or half speed. This is not a practical limitation for most systems today, as only the fastest cards with two GPUs per card exceed the x8 bandwidth. However, I have no idea if this will constrain FERMI when it comes out. I chose the board with the SATA 6.0 GB/s option - no reason not to preserve that option but not the limitations discussed above of using that feature.

For CPU, I went with the i7-860 to maintain the advantage of hyperthreading - but which may have little advantage today with you games and application but I beleive developers have to take increasing advantage of this resource. It saves little over the faster i7-920 processor. You could save about $100 more stepping down to i5 but I would not.

The memory I stepped up to 1600 since there is no reason not to in the P55 configuration and prices are not much more expensive than slower memory.

The video cards and HSF are the same as before.

rockyjohn · Dec 20, 2009

noob2222 :

You can save about $90 by using the Gigabyte UD3R as suggested, which should be considered. I went with the more expensive board which provides:

1. The 3 graphic card slots which might eventially become useful when using FERMI and Physx
2. It has 6 memory slots vs. only 4 in the other - this is the big reason. The UD5 gives you the option to simply add 3 sticks of memory later and double the bandwidth. The UD3 does not. One of the big advantages of the 1366 series is the triple channel memory, why start off by crippling it with a mobo with only 4 memory slots?
3. The UD5 has better heatsinks added to other components to aid in cooling - probably important only if you overclock but definitely nice to have then.

Here is a comparison of the two boards. It does not list the heat sink differences, but you can see it in the pictures, kind of.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010200280%201070545356%2050001314&bop=And&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&ActiveSearchResult=True&CompareItemList=N82E16813128375%2CN82E16813128362

I did not get the impression there was a need to scrimp here, but you could find some savings with the UD3R which should not affect current performance as now defined - just benefits that might be useful later, especially if more than 6 GB of RAM because useful. Any idea what FERMI will require or be able to use?

tabur · Dec 20, 2009

Guys, I'll admit that im falling in love with this board... The support has been awesome, the only thing I can do is say thanks again!

Specially to rockyjohn, thanks for all the effort put in your answers!

Now, i'm at a critical point, I'll be doing a little bit more research because I like both setups you made, the 1156 and the 1366. In fact, i like the 1366 a little more because of what you said about fermi and 8x/16x (which is always an option). The only problem is that 1366 does not seem to support sata 6gb yet, which would mean that I will probably have to change motherboards in the next year...

As you can see, I'm at a crossroad here... It seems that the cheaper and faster 1156 platform is the logical option for the "now and here", but I DO plan to buy a fermi card, and if things go well, maybe upgrading CPU.

So, basically, 1156 is fast and cheap but not that future-proof and 1366 is fast and expensive but quite future-proof, but even though it is future proof, I'll have to change the motherboard if i plan on taking advantage of the SATA6...

See?? Quite the dilemma...

noob2222 · Dec 20, 2009

Im sure 6gb sata will be available with add on cards when it can be utilized

tabur · Dec 20, 2009

Oh, and about the UD5/UD3R boards, I think i'll choose the UD3R because I'll have to change it anyways hahahaha

1366 or 1156???

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