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I'm really confuse and I really need some help.

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December 19, 2009 7:53:40 PM

I thought I have finally decided. I've research this company where I thought I will buy my PC and they have awful reviews (Computerplanet.co.uk). So I went to dell and try to find the same specs that I want. Here it is:

CPU: Intel i7-960 (No OC please)
Mem: Corsair 6GB XMS3 1600
MB: Asus Rampage 2 Extreme
PSU: Coolermaster 1100w
Case: CM Storm Sniper (beofre it was 690)
GPU: ATI HD 5850 (Before it 5770)
HDD: I've got 1 SATA and 2 IDE and planning to buy 500GB SATA to add because the other are more than 4 years old.
Cooler: Corsair H50

PRICE = £1400+

So I did found 1 from DELL, it's the Alienware Aurora ALX. My current system is DELL dimension 8333 and 6 years old so I can say IMO, dell is quite good with their PCs.

CPU: Intel i7-950 (Although I want i7-960)
Mem: Corsair 6GB 1333
MB: Dell MOBO
PSU: 875W( from what I read)
Case: Alienware Case (Which is really cool)
GPU: ATI HD 5870
HDD: 750 GB SATA 16MB

PRICE: £1570+

But then I saw this other company CyberPowerSystem which has some good and badd reviews, 70% and 30% respectively.

CPU: Intel i7-960 (No OC please)
Mem: Corsair 6GB XMS3 1600
MB: Asus Rampage 2 Extreme
PSU: Coolermaster 1100w
Case: CM Storm Sniper (beofre it was 690)
GPU: ATI HD 5850
HDD: 750 GB SATA 16MB

PRICE = £1529

I'm really confuse what to get. And there's another one. I can get the HD 5870 from CYBERPOWERSYSTEM just by changing my MOBO from R2E to P6t Deluxe V2.

I really need some help. I'm really confuse. My Original Budget was £1300 but My wife agreed for me to add £300 more. Because she knows that It will take another 6 year or so before I change my PC. It's just really hard to decide. As some of you may already know, I'm going to use my PC for Web and Software Development (and will be using VMWARE Server or Virtual PC), Photoshop, Video Editting and Conversion. And Lots of Multi-Tasking. Game probably. My current setup is P4 2.8 Benq 24" is my main monitor with multi-display to 40" TV 1080p.

I need to decide as soon as possible becuase in January the VAT will go back from 15% to %17.5 which will have a huge impact on my budget. Sorry to keep on asking questions about my build... Just reall need some help.

Thanks in Advance.

More about : confuse

December 19, 2009 8:41:58 PM

My suggestion would be to price up your system with either of the following - both are fantastic suppliers and have keen pricing too. Never had problems with either of them.


www.ebuyer.co.uk
www.overclockers.co.uk

December 19, 2009 9:00:03 PM

first off, get the 920. it will save you 750$, so 525 euro(?). it has almost identical performance, and oc'ed it is the EXACT SAME THING!!! now that you have an extra 750$, buy this motherboard instead, it save 10$, last a few more years, and is overall better.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

next, now that your budget is 760$ lower, buy this ram:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

probably just saved another 30$, so now 800$ to work with.now lets not bottleneck everything and put an ssd in there, like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

now we have 450$ that is saved, so lets get a better case, psu, and video card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

well now you got your money worth. go with this stuff,and the rest of the gear you were planning on buying. all of those werent nesicarily bad for the money, they were just extremely unbalanced. try to get as much of this stuff into your computer, and you wont be ripped off. :) 
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December 19, 2009 9:08:31 PM

I just answered you in your other thread....plz don't double post
December 19, 2009 9:26:33 PM

www.scan.co.uk are good too.

the dell machine is oddly configured, you don't need a 1.1Kw power supply for that.

at a £1000 spend the vat change will equal £20, so even at £1500 it'll only be £30, that should not dictate your timing.

Are the extreme mobo's good overclockers, you can save yourself a lot by dropping the mobo spec if you are not oc'ing.
December 20, 2009 1:35:16 AM

I can't help you on UK suppliers, but here are some of my thoughts:
1) It looks like you want a gaming machine. If that is so, spend your money on the best graphics card/s you feel comfortable paying for. In this case, look at a 5870 if you will be using a resolution of 1920 x 1200 or less. Since you have a second monitor, consider adding a second, cheaper graphics card to run your non-gaming monitor. I use a 3450
to drive a 1920 x 1200 monitor , and a 5870 to drive a 2560 x 1600 gaming monitor. This resulted in better FPS while gaming because the 5870 did not have to manage the extra display.

2) Both of those two cards can be powered nicely by a quality 650w PSU. Quality units come from corsair, seasonic, antec, PC P&C for starters. Do NOT skimp on quality in this area. A psu that is too strong will run at a fraction of it's capability and will be less efficient than one that operates in the middle of it's range.

3) The i7-950/960 will run any game out there nicely without overclocking. You really will not notice any difference in performance with either cpu.

4) The i7 memory controller is excellent, there is little value in spending more for faster speeds or lower latencies. 6gb in a 3 x 2gb kit is a good size. 1333 ram will perform on a par with 1600 ram. The only small reason for 1600 ram is if you will be overclocking. If you will be doing lots of multitasking, consider 12gb up front. I understand that photoshop performs better, the more ram that you give it. I do hope that you plan on using windows-7 64 bit.

5) Do not spend more on a X58 motherboard than you need to. All the X58 motherboards will perform the same when not overclocked. This is true even with mild overclocking. The enthusiast boards are for the extreme overclockers.

6) I would abandon the ide drives, and possibly your old sata drives.. The newer sata drives are inexpensive and are much better performers. The larger, denser drives berform better. Look for a WD caviar black 1tb drive.

7) I don't like the corsair H50 cooler. Particularly since you will not be overclocking. A simple large air cooler like the Xigmatek dark night will do just as well, and can't leak. It would suffice, even if you later wanted to overclock.

8) You know enough to ask the right questions on components. You should be able to assemble a PC yourself. Price out all of the components and see how much is being charged to assemble it. If you do it yourself, you will still get the manufacturers warranty on parts. Support from these forums is lilely better than what a remote vendor can give you. If you know someone who has done one before, that is better. Or, ask a local computer shop what they would charge to supervise while you assemble it.
The experience is priceless.

---good luck---
December 20, 2009 4:10:34 AM

Thanks everyone for the reply. Sorry for double posting as I said I really need to decide as soon as possible.

@geofelt, thanks for the detailed responses. I know there's no such thing as future proof but my last PC is 6 years old and I just upgrad parts when I needed them. The trouble of doing it myself is that the price is almost the same if not cheaper. I'm leaning towards Dell because I've got the EPP 10% discount (from £1713 to £1567) and the specs for me is quite good. And as I said my last PC never fail me. Do you have any thoughts about alienware?

I've read about issues with Asus motherboads and windows 7 about RAM not detecting properly. So it made think to get the MSI x58 PRO-E or EVGA tri-sli LE instead though I like the p6x58d (USB 3.0) which I'm not sure if it's available in th UK. As for the ram the only difference is about £15 to £30. Honestly, I'm not an overclock enthusiast that is why I want to get i7-950 but I read that it's going to be replaced by i7-960 and they both have almost the same price. I know a lot of people will say that it's not that hard to do it at this point in time but I'm just not sure what is the long term consequence. i would probably try to OC it in the future but only until my CPU cannot give me the power that I need. That is why I thought to get i7-960 instead.

As for the GPU, though I'm not an extreme gamer, I would probably try some games in the future. And I help out my cousin doing some project using autodesk autocad and 3dsmax. IMO, DX11 is the way forward even though less number of games are using it ATM. And it's just £110 additional when in the bundle compare to £200+ if I buy it separately.

Honestly, I really like to build it myself but the trouble is It'll be a lot cheaper if I buy it assembled from these companies. As stated, Dell offers me 10% discount because of EPP. And Cyberpowerpc(US)/Cyberpowersystem(UK) has a 5% discount.

Sites I went to compare was Novatech, ebuyer.co.uk and scan.co.uk trouble with the first 2 is they don't sell i7-960. Although dell only has i7-950, not sure if the discount is worth it?

Any thoughts?

Thanks again.
December 20, 2009 4:34:15 AM

For trouble free operation, look for a motherboard that has been out a while. Every new offering has the possibility of problems which will be addressed by bios updates. If you research the bios updates for a motherboard on the manufacturer's web site, you will be able to track how many there are, and over what time frame.

December 20, 2009 5:01:19 AM

13thmonkey said:
www.scan.co.uk are good too.

the dell machine is oddly configured, you don't need a 1.1Kw power supply for that.

at a £1000 spend the vat change will equal £20, so even at £1500 it'll only be £30, that should not dictate your timing.

Are the extreme mobo's good overclockers, you can save yourself a lot by dropping the mobo spec if you are not oc'ing.


What do you mean oddly configured? Is it the design? or the specs?
December 20, 2009 5:16:29 AM

From the discounts that I will acquire, Is buying a pre-built PC still a bad idea?
December 20, 2009 12:39:47 PM

robertomad said:
What do you mean oddly configured? Is it the design? or the specs?


sorry this is the second time i've troed to post this so i'll keep it quick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qty Link No. Description Scansure
Available Ex VAT Inc VAT
LN24120

1TB Western Digital WD1001FALS Caviar Black, SATA 3Gb/s, 7200rpm, 32MB Cache £123.30 £141.80
LN25719

Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366RT 120mm heat sink KIT for Intel 1366 CPU inc 1600RPM fan £43.89 £50.47
LN26047

Coolermaster RC-590 Midi Tower Case with Cmaster eXtreme 500W PSU Fitted £66.87 £76.90
LN26162

Asus P6T, Intel X58, S1366, PCI-E 2.0 (x16), Triple DDR3 2000(OC), SATA 3Gb/s, SATA RAID, ATX £139.17 £160.05
LN26794

6GB (3x2GB) Corsair XMS3 DDR3, PC3-12800 (1600), 240 Pin, Non-ECC Unbuffered, Classic, CAS 8, XMP £109.97 £126.47
LN27179

Intel i7 950, S1366, Bloomfield, 3.06 GHz, QPI 4.8GT/s, 8MB Cache, 23x Ratio, 130W, Retail £363.17 £417.65
LN28920

1GB XFX HD 5850, PCI-E 2.0(x16), 4000MHz GDDR5, GPU 725MHz, DisplayPort/ 2x DL DVI-I/ HDMI + Dirt2* £216.38 £248.84
LN29474

750w Seasonic S12D-750 DC to DC Ultimate Gaming PSU with 88% Silver Eff', Super Silent, ATX/EPS 12V £89.90 £103.39


Recalculate Basket

Net Total

Carriage

VAT
£1,152.65

£10.94

£174.54
Total£1,338.13More sense than money
After a 10% deposit pay nothing for 12 months.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Above spec is cheaper than dell and has 2x1Tb hdd added in. It could be tweaked to below £1100 in my opinion (if you are not overclocking why have a water cooler, the std cooler is ok and help with internal case temps by moving air around mobo components)

Why I7? what are you using it for? Would I5 with 8Gb of ram be better, would be cheaper certainly, negotiate with missus for spending some of it in 2-3 years and then upgrade again. By then socket 1366/1156 will probably be obsolete and so trying to future proof with 1366 is probably pointless.

The 1.1Kw psu from dell is overkill and you will be paying for that, 750W is probably overkill as well, but its a nice quiet PSU that will behave itself.

Don't treat the above as a final spec, more as a justification that you can buy it cheaper and that the discounts are not important.

I've used Scan and Ebuyer a lot in the UK and they are both good, have heard good about overclockers but not used them.

Remember the VAT increase will only cost £20-30 as this level of spend, and yes that means that all that fuss about the decrease was for only £20-30 per £1000, it must have cost more than that in adjustin prices and paperwork.

Keep talking and we will help you get a good system.
December 20, 2009 7:08:47 PM

robertomad said:
From the discounts that I will acquire, Is buying a pre-built PC still a bad idea?


Price out the itemized cost of building it yourself vs. pre built.
Then decide if it is worth it.
A large company like Dell can get good discounts on components, and particularly on the OS. But, they need to mark the components up to cover their costs and add a profit.
It is hard to beat pre-built on entry level machines, but high end PC's seem to get much higher markups.
December 21, 2009 1:19:22 PM

Hi 13thmonkey,

My Last Rig was 6 years, Only recently I've change the video card, added memory, change the PSU. Which IMO the system has been solid since then. And It's from Dell so from my experience I can say the PC I bought is totally worth it.

I7 because I want a faster PC with my projects.

After reading bad review with computerplanet.co.uk, cyberpowersystem.co.uk (cyberpowerpc.com). I thought of building my own. Have you got any problems with Scan or Ebuyer? I've used ebuyer once 6 years ago when I bought my floppy drive. The problem I had was the item was not properly packaged (I'm too keen to details when it comes to online purchase). I found some mix reviews for scan.co.uk but what worries me is the one that I read which the customer call scan.co.uk as scam.co.uk. Do you have any advice with this 2 company? I try to build (add to basket) from Overclockers.co.uk but after reading reviews I was really scared. It's like less than 20% is only satisfied.

I've also bought the Video card and PSU from Novatech Cardiff but from the actual outlet. Which I think is better. Is there any Newegg-like in the UK?


December 21, 2009 1:31:24 PM

geofelt said:
Price out the itemized cost of building it yourself vs. pre built.
Then decide if it is worth it.
A large company like Dell can get good discounts on components, and particularly on the OS. But, they need to mark the components up to cover their costs and add a profit.
It is hard to beat pre-built on entry level machines, but high end PC's seem to get much higher markups.



The problem that I have right now is I don't know where to buy. Good thing in America they have newegg which people really recommend. But I don't know where to buy. I'm really scared of companies with bad reviews to be honest. Does anybody recommend a reputable company?
December 21, 2009 4:30:55 PM

robertomad said:
Hi 13thmonkey,

My Last Rig was 6 years, Only recently I've change the video card, added memory, change the PSU. Which IMO the system has been solid since then. And It's from Dell so from my experience I can say the PC I bought is totally worth it.

I7 because I want a faster PC with my projects.

After reading bad review with computerplanet.co.uk, cyberpowersystem.co.uk (cyberpowerpc.com). I thought of building my own. Have you got any problems with Scan or Ebuyer? I've used ebuyer once 6 years ago when I bought my floppy drive. The problem I had was the item was not properly packaged (I'm too keen to details when it comes to online purchase). I found some mix reviews for scan.co.uk but what worries me is the one that I read which the customer call scan.co.uk as scam.co.uk. Do you have any advice with this 2 company? I try to build (add to basket) from Overclockers.co.uk but after reading reviews I was really scared. It's like less than 20% is only satisfied.

I've also bought the Video card and PSU from Novatech Cardiff but from the actual outlet. Which I think is better. Is there any Newegg-like in the UK?


I've been buying from scan since 2005? and always found them to be good for components both on price and delivery, i've had to send one item back, if you follow the rules (regarding timescale etc.) then you'll be fine. Ebuyer i've used less, but had to return a gpu (7900GTO notoriously iffy) and they refunded after about 10 months usage (cash refund no need to spend with them), also had to return several HDD's with issues, i think that their testing methods are suspect as apparently all HDD's were faulty, fault was actually with mobo and sata.

Scan have a physical site in bolton... and you can order online to collect in store so you can guarentee availability.

December 21, 2009 6:49:07 PM

robertomad said:
Hi 13thmonkey,

My Last Rig was 6 years, Only recently I've change the video card, added memory, change the PSU. Which IMO the system has been solid since then. And It's from Dell so from my experience I can say the PC I bought is totally worth it.

I7 because I want a faster PC with my projects.

After reading bad review with computerplanet.co.uk, cyberpowersystem.co.uk (cyberpowerpc.com). I thought of building my own. Have you got any problems with Scan or Ebuyer? I've used ebuyer once 6 years ago when I bought my floppy drive. The problem I had was the item was not properly packaged (I'm too keen to details when it comes to online purchase). I found some mix reviews for scan.co.uk but what worries me is the one that I read which the customer call scan.co.uk as scam.co.uk. Do you have any advice with this 2 company? I try to build (add to basket) from Overclockers.co.uk but after reading reviews I was really scared. It's like less than 20% is only satisfied.

I've also bought the Video card and PSU from Novatech Cardiff but from the actual outlet. Which I think is better. Is there any Newegg-like in the UK?


Have you considered the 1156 i7's, they have turbo boost so single threaded situations will increase the clock speed. the I7 860 is about £200 cheaper than 960, basic clocks are slower but with self administered overclocking. Mobo's are cheaper too.
December 21, 2009 7:51:10 PM

Thanks 13thmonkey.

Here are the result of my research with all same specs

www.scan.co.uk = 1,471.52 (cpu,cooler,gpu -pre order )
www.pcspecialist.co.uk = 1,477 (CPU= i7-960)
www.cclonline.com = 1,514.29 (gpu -pre order)
www.novatech.co.uk = 1540.54 (gpu -pre order)
www.ebuyer.co.uk = 1,547.30 (gpu -pre order)
www.overclockers.co.uk = 1,565.73 (gpu -pre order)
www.dell.co.uk (alienware) = 1,566.78 only differences are motherboard, psu, case, don't know the memory, there are all dell
www.computerplanet.co.uk =1,635.43
www.dinopc.com = 1,508

As you can see I really did my homework. Which one will you get if I were you?
December 21, 2009 8:45:39 PM

purely because I've used them and they are cheaper i'd suggest Scan, (have you included an OS?) I'd also suggest you consider your spec, i'm convinced you can get 90% of the performance for about 60% of the price. And since GPU's are pre-order perhaps see what the green team have in thier corner?

December 21, 2009 8:59:00 PM

May I suggest that you call the support line for each vendor and see how you are treated.
Ask some question about the configuration.
Call the repair/complaint department, not the sales department.

December 21, 2009 9:09:35 PM

13thmonkey said:
purely because I've used them and they are cheaper i'd suggest Scan, (have you included an OS?) I'd also suggest you consider your spec, i'm convinced you can get 90% of the performance for about 60% of the price. And since GPU's are pre-order perhaps see what the green team have in thier corner?



I'm just wondering about the scansure? Is this necessary?
December 21, 2009 9:13:25 PM

Got the scansure terms and condition and it's kind of misleading

EXCLUSIONS
This insurance does not cover:
Any claim arising from abuse, neglect or malicious damage.
2. The VAT element of any claim if You are registered for VAT.
3. Any breakdown or internal cause whatsoever or damage that occurs
during the delivery of Your Computer Component.
4. Any deliberate action which invalidates the manufacturer’s warranty.
5. Any claim valid under the manufacturer’s warranty or which are subject
to a manufacturer’s recall.
6. Any claim where no fault is found with Your Computer Component.
7. Any claim made outside of the 28 day Period of Insurance.
8. Theft ,loss, wear and tear, fire, explosion, flood, lightening, storms, or
other bad weather conditions,
9. Cosmetic damage such as damage to paintwork, dents or scratches.
10. Damage caused by You failing to follow the manufacturers instructions
11. Any other costs that are caused by the event which led to Your claim,
unless specifically stated in this Evidence.

It's like buy the insurance but if someting happens you're not covered.
December 21, 2009 9:15:10 PM

geofelt said:
May I suggest that you call the support line for each vendor and see how you are treated.
Ask some question about the configuration.
Call the repair/complaint department, not the sales department.


I actually did that on some of the companies and they were actually helpful but after reading the reviews. It's really scare the hell lot of me. It's like they are only good to you for them to make a sale and once you did then they will ignore you.
December 21, 2009 9:18:31 PM

i've never 'broken' a component prior to installing, remember the distance selling regs, and don't buy months before you are going to use it, get it in a machine and working quickly, use your old gpu if you need to, but prove it doesn;t work quickly and you'll be ok. For the price the lack of argument might make it worth it. The business model says it can't be costing them money so the averages must work out in their favour.

If you are not sure do what geofelt says and call them, calll the sales line and see how quickly they answer, call their technical people to see if they can 'help with the spec' call support to see what the process is, and see how quickly they answer.

Have a look at their 3xs machines if you want a little more support on the build front, look at thier offers (often very good).

According to this: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/2009-desktop-cpu-c... there is not much between the 9xx and the 8xx at the same clock speed, i've no idea what you are using it for so the benchies might be rubbish. But lynnfield has different features.
December 22, 2009 5:03:07 AM

13thmonkey said:
i've never 'broken' a component prior to installing, remember the distance selling regs, and don't buy months before you are going to use it, get it in a machine and working quickly, use your old gpu if you need to, but prove it doesn;t work quickly and you'll be ok. For the price the lack of argument might make it worth it. The business model says it can't be costing them money so the averages must work out in their favour.

If you are not sure do what geofelt says and call them, calll the sales line and see how quickly they answer, call their technical people to see if they can 'help with the spec' call support to see what the process is, and see how quickly they answer.

Have a look at their 3xs machines if you want a little more support on the build front, look at thier offers (often very good).

According to this: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/charts/2009-desktop-cpu-c... there is not much between the 9xx and the 8xx at the same clock speed, i've no idea what you are using it for so the benchies might be rubbish. But lynnfield has different features.



As I have said before my current PC is 6 years old. None of it can be really tested unless I put them together. I guess the case is one of the exception. Just not sure about the PSU though it's kind of a low quality 500w psu. My GPU is AGP 8x. I wish we have a nearer outlet store I could get these components or I wish amazon sell them.

I have a family in america probably they can buy this for me from newegg and just send it. I tried going to that website and it cost me about £300 less. probably the parcel will only cost £100-£200. Just not sure about the tax though. I heard you just need to declare it as a gift or something don't know if it will work.
December 22, 2009 5:23:35 AM

Overclockers uk e-mailed me and the e-mail has a lot of grammar and spelling mistakes.

Thank you for your webnote

We are excepting to get the I7 960 instore soon all orders are delivery together aslong as they are ordered together if a items is out of stock or pre-order we backorder the item so the rest can go. If you buy now you will pay the VAT rate as it stands now and finally we don't offer any discount on items at this time.

Regards,

Gary Harnett

If on e-mails they don't even bother to check what they are sending to customer then they are probably cowboys. OCUK out!
December 22, 2009 8:44:33 AM

the tax situation from the US is probably bad news, anything above a certain amount willbe taxed even if it is a gift. So several parcels over a long period might help although it is evasive, and imagine the returns, intel do not offer full warranties on 'grey imports' for instance.

when you said you had upgraded the gpu i presumed pci-e

your call now i guess....
!