Using HWinfo64-what CPU temp do I go by?

[king smp]

Hi I use HWinfo64 temp monitor (really like it)
and it gives two CPU readings
one is amd 10h+ cpu thermal sensor
the other is ITE IT8712F

now the 10H+ is generally 5c less than the ITE sensor
from Googling
the 10H+ is the core temp while the ITE is package temp measured at socket
as far as OCing temps go by
I know that 60C is really the max you want your peak load to be
right now my PHII x 4 925 @3.5ghz is reading after an hour with Prime95-64bit in 68F room (20C?)
55-57C on the ITE
so the 10H would be about 50-52C

which temp should I go by?

everywhere you read about OCing the PHII Deneb says
you should really be under 55C for max load temp

I need a serious AMD expert here

 

[king smp]

okay DLd CoreTemp

The AMD 10+H sensor on HWinfo64 reads the same as the core temp in Coretemp
they both read 39C currently while browsing and doing virus scan
as the same time the ITE IT8712F CPU temp is 44c which is 5c higher

so the core is 39c while the outside package (CPU) sensor in the mobo CPU socket is reading 44c or 5C higher

so when they say that AMD PHII shouldnt go above @60C
I think they mean core temp and not mobo socket sensor?

from having Intels I know they have Tcase
and TJunction
Tcase (sensor on socket) is the temp that Intel uses for specifying their max operating temp
Tjunction is the temp measured from DTS sensor under the heat spreader or also
known as core temp

usually core temp will run 5c cooler than Tcase

so I know Intel uses Tcase or outside package temps for spec'ing out its max operating temps
I was curious whether AMD uses Tjunction or Tcase for its max temps
I always see @60c listed for max temp for PHII
so curious whether that is the core temp or the socket sensor temp?

 

[king smp]

IT8712F= Tcase or outside package or mobo socket temp
AMD 10+H sensor = core temp or DTS sensor or sensor under heat spreader onboard CPU

CoreTemp the program measures the 10+H sensor
while HWinfo64 measures both (ITE and AMD 10+)



so ran P95 for about 20 mins to get a quick max load

core temp measured - max 55c
HWinfo AMD 10+ (core) on HWinfo64 - max 55c
ITE IT8712F (package or Tcase) = max 61c


AMD Specs PHII x 4 925 -
http://products.amd.com/pages/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=620&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

lists 71c as max temp
is that the core temp or mobo socket temp?
or known as Tjunction (core) or Tcase (package)

 

[king smp]

darn
I just googled AMD Phenom II temps and there is no good source to say
basically dont go over 70c is the rule
but which temp it is
nobody seems to know

with my intel I would use Coretemp and measure distance to TJMax (90c on Core2Duo and 99c on a PHII)
and the rule was as long as it didnt get within 20c of Tjmax (79c or higher for PHII)
or 70c or higher for Core2Duo
then you were fine
for example
showing delta to TJmax on CoreTemp 1.0 RC2
with TJMax of 99c
it is reading 66c or (99-66=33c idle)
so I have a 33c idle
if TJmax delta hits 20c or 79c (99-20)
then I am in trouble
TJmax is described as the temp where thermal throttling occurs
just before thermal shutdown
since my temp on core didnt go over 55c I think I am doing okay
that would be 99-55= 44c delta to TJMax

I knew how this applied to Intel chips
did alot of reading about it
but not sure how it applies to AMD CPUs

 

[king smp]

oh yeah check out this thread
http://www.overclock.net/t/321821/whats-tj-max-stand-for/10
that is a forum thread

this is a great article
http://www.overclock.net/t/476469/the-truth-about-temperatures-and-voltages

that explains TJmax and delta to TJmax better than I can

by using the difference or delta to TJMax and not going closer than 20 degrees
(ie 99 TJmax means that at 20 delta it is 79c)
then you are fine

remember that when you just measure the delta to TJMax
it doesnt matter what TJMax is set by the program
the DTS or on chip sensor will always report an accurate delta to TJMax
so 20 delta is always okay whether the TJ Max is 70 or 90 or 100
the TJMax value in the program is an arbitrary value set by the temp monitors programmer
but the delta to TJMax is the actual straight reading from the digital sensor onboard the CPU
and the TJMax is set inside the CPU
whether the monitor programmer gets that TJmax right doesnt really matter

 

[king smp]

the question still remains is when AMD states 71c is that the core temp
or the outside the package temp (mobo socket)?

nowhere I can find from Googling does AMD state which reading that is

 

[RussK1]

These are the one's I go by~

CPUTIN is on die (most important), package is the integrated heatsink which is about the same as core temp. I've ran my 2600K to 100c (core) but the CPUTIN never past 75c (or maybe 80c? dangerous I know) @5.3ghz 1.56v running max on IBT.

 

[king smp]

a little confused russwood
on your HWinfo64 you show CPU temp as 32c
but your mobo temp is 35c

how is your CPU temp below ambient motherboard temp?

didnt think that was possible on air cooling

 

[RussK1]

a little confused russwood
on your HWinfo64 you show CPU temp as 32c
but your mobo temp is 35c

how is your CPU temp below ambient motherboard temp?

didnt think that was possible on air cooling

CPU is cooled with self-contained liquid...

 

[king smp]

nice!!!
I didnt realize you have one of the H50s
those are sweet
I was just PMing 4ryan6 and talking to him about those

 

[king smp]

on my HWinfo64
it shows IT8712F motherboard CPU sensor at 40c
and the AMD 10H+ on die digital sensor at 33c
so the outside of CPU between HS and CPU is 40c
inside the CPU under the Heat spreader is 33c or the Core temp
if I got that correct
at load the mobo CPU sensor reads 61c
at load the AMD on die CPU sensor reads 55c
AMD states that 71c is highest temp for Phenom II x 4 925
so does AMD mean 71c on the mobo sensor or the on die sensor inside CPU
I would think it would be the AMD 10+hr on CPU sensor
but nowhere I can find does AMD describe how they measure that 71C

but I think the smart move is to just keep the mobo sensor temp under 71c
this way there is about a 5c cushion of safety

but also using Coretemp 1.0 program
if you go to options>settings>advanced then check off "display the distance to TJMax in temperature fields"
then it will show the on CPU sensors delta to TJMax and if you dont go lower than 20c(if TJMax is 99c then 20c would be 99-20=79c)
then you are safe
that is 20c cooler than where the CPUs thermal throttling begins
at 0 or when TJmax is reached then that is the beginning of thermal throttling

 

[king smp]

I was thinking H60 for my unit..
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181015

one thing 4ryan6 brought up about the H series
is what happens if you have a pump failure?
not a matter of if just a matter of when
you will lose all your cooling in a second
with a air cooled HSF at least the HS will act to help dissipate heat
but a water cooled doesnt have that
unless the have a mechanical or solid state sensor that senses pump failure
and sends a signal to mobo to shut down
you will have a big problem
4ryan6 I believe said that there will be a cooling article on Toms going over the different H series

 

[RussK1]

nice!!!
I didnt realize you have one of the H50s
those are sweet
I was just PMing 4ryan6 and talking to him about those

They're nice and easy to work with... a little picky about placement though. I'd like to put the Rad. in the front of my case as an intake but the tubing is too short.

I was thinking H60 for my unit..

Get the Antec Kuhler... the tubing is longer and easier to work with and I believe you can put on even longer tubing... thus making placement a lot easier.

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?Per=YTE=#liquidcpucoolers

 

[king smp]

they are a wild concept
I think with some of the temp monitor programs you can execute a dos file
to trigger a shutdown when you go over a certain temp
whatever temp you set when it goes over it it will turn your computer off
I am going to check out some temp monitors
I know HWinfo has a alarm function but not sure if can trigger an executable
for any system air or water I think that is a nice safety check to have
just have the temp monitor start with windows
and this way even if you are not home
you can have it shut off at a safer temp than the CPUs shutdown temp

 

[RussK1]

I would think it would be the AMD 10+hr on CPU sensor

Yes...

TjMax (core) for Sandy Bridge is 100c
Tcase (die) max 72.6c

Check it out~

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/AMDSystemMonitor.aspx
http://support.amd.com/us/Processor_TechDocs/43375.pdf

 

[king smp]

cool after I put Princess to bed I will have to check out those links

BTW HWinfo64 in sensor mode you can use configure
highlight the sensor
then use it to play a sound or run a exe or batch file
so if you use notepad to make a bat file with the shutdown /s /f
command that would work
I tried on my XP machine and worked good
but my Win7 machind wont shutdown with a batch file

been a million years since using a cmd line LOL
was never that good at it in the first place

 

[king smp]

that second link did it
nice russwood

55c-71c is defined as Tcase Max

here is a good read about Tcase and Tjunction
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252233-29-tjunction-tcase

so in HWinfo64 the CPU temp listed for ITE IT8712F sensor should be the Tcase
which is the temperature from the sensor on the socket
that cant go over 71c

not the messed up thing is that AMD specifies in thermal specs that the Tcase max allowed is between 55c and 71c
so which is it?
a 16c spread is quite large
I will work at keeping below 55C LOL

well russwood you answered my question
I needed to know which temp to use
and I needed to know how AMD defined its max temp
and by giving me that link to AMD PDF file stating Tcase
you supplied the answer
thank you

 

[king smp]

Best answer selected by king smp.

 

[RussK1]

that second link did it
nice russwood

55c-71c is defined as Tcase Max

here is a good read about Tcase and Tjunction
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252233-29-tjunction-tcase

so in HWinfo64 the CPU temp listed for ITE IT8712F sensor should be the Tcase
which is the temperature from the sensor on the socket
that cant go over 71c

not the messed up thing is that AMD specifies in thermal specs that the Tcase max allowed is between 55c and 71c
so which is it?
a 16c spread is quite large
I will work at keeping below 55C LOL

well russwood you answered my question
I needed to know which temp to use
and I needed to know how AMD defined its max temp
and by giving me that link to AMD PDF file stating Tcase
you supplied the answer
thank you

Ambiguous yes...

I looked for the Data sheet specific to Phenom II but AMD kept referencing back to this data sheet. Yeah 51c - 71c. I would try to keep it below 70c and it should be fine...

Thanks for BA, wasn't really doing it for that just doing it on principle... Like I said before I know next to squat concerning AMD CPU's although I learned something searching their site. I can say this though, Intel is a LOT easier. Go to Intels site and type the cpu in and walla - spec and data sheet.

http://support.amd.com/us/psearch/Pages/psearch.aspx?type=2.1%3b2.12&product=2.1.15&contentType=Tech+Doc+Processor&ostype=&keywords=&items=20

 

[king smp]

that is the funny thing about BAs
Mal has alot of knowledge of AMD CPUs
if i need advice on an upgrade I turn to him
but in this case a good Google search turned up
the info I needed
I cant tell you how many BAs I have gotten where the other posters on the thread
knew way more than me but I came up with the one link that was needed by the OP
thats okay though
Mal doesnt care too much about BAs anymore (he used to LOL)
and he gave me great advice on another thread about picking out a cooler
that he got a BA on
I rather start threads with my questions than bring them up in Idle Chat
not only does somebody get a BA
but in the future somebody researching this subject can be hopefully helped by this thread where they wouldnt find it in Idle Chat
plus I get points for handing out a BA too you know

edit - nice link again on AMD support docs-saved me some searching-thank you

 

[king smp]

hee hee
as of right now I am in 4th place in Overclocking forum
17 points behind third (Saint19)
with the points from this thread I have a good chance of going into
third place tomorrow as long as Saint19 didnt get a BA today
think about that
I will be third in OCing
but yet I dont know that much about it
kind of sad dont you think.....

 

[RussK1]

hee hee
as of right now I am in 4th place in Overclocking forum
17 points behind third (Saint19)
with the points from this thread I have a good chance of going into
third place tomorrow as long as Saint19 didnt get a BA today
think about that
I will be third in OCing
but yet I dont know that much about it
kind of sad dont you think.....

I think you know more than you give yourself credit for.

 

[hellenuoften]

study

 

[king smp]

@ russwood- thanks- I am a simple "Google Tech" LOL
i can diagnose and repair reasonably well
but OCing I am still learning

that is why I am O.C.D.
Obsessive Computer Disorder
what I like is that there is always more to learn
when I go to study one thing I end up finding out 5 more things I need to learn

 

[RussK1]

@ russwood- thanks- I am a simple "Google Tech" LOL
i can diagnose and repair reasonably well
but OCing I am still learning

that is why I am O.C.D.
Obsessive Computer Disorder
what I like is that there is always more to learn
when I go to study one thing I end up finding out 5 more things I need to learn

I have the same problem... So you're not alone. Anyway, played some call o doody with a red bar. Now off to sleep.

Good night, talk with ya later.