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Windows 7 32 bit to 64 bit or both?

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October 6, 2011 5:16:28 AM

I have some questions about windows 7 OS.

1) Does windows 7 64 bit support 32 bit still?

2) Can I use windows 64 bit with 4 modules of ddr3?

3) Can windows 7 64 bit configure 32 bit memory channels?

4) Can I expect windows 7 64 bit to configure 128 bit width memory on dual channels 4 modules, or 256 bit width on dual channel 4 modules? (32 bit x 4 ddr3 modules)

5) Do I need to get a windows 7 64 bit + 32 bit OS package to use both 32 bit and 64 bit width memory configure?

7) Can windows run in 64 bit mode while use 32 bit architecture?

8) Can windows 7 64 bit be restricted to 32 bit when needed? or will I need a package that has suport for both 32 bit and 64 bit?

I'm asking because most all games I check on play with 32 bit os and only need 64 bit for DX11 graphics. I think one OS that can run both 32 and 64 bit with a click or switch users could be what I am looking for.

More about : windows bit bit

a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 5:26:58 AM

1. Yes 64bit can run 32bit programs.
2. Yes 4 modules is fine.
3. Ram bit depth is irrelevant (has to do with chipset). You just need to know ddr version and supported speeds of the mobo/cpu.
4. See 3.
5. See 3.
6. (7.) No a 32 bit os cannot run 64 bit.

You will want 64bit so you can use more than 4gb ram.
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October 6, 2011 5:37:38 AM

Thanks! Can windows 64 restrict use of 64 bit when using 32 bit?
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 6:03:16 AM

A 32 bit program will only run in 32bit, it can't support 64 bit addresses. A 64 bit os can support both 64 bit and 32 bit programs even at the same time.
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October 6, 2011 6:12:49 AM

All I can find is XP mode but ne 32 bit mode. There must be away to achieve this.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 6:44:48 AM

Achieve what? Now I'm confused. You will have no issues running 32 bit in a 64 bit os. But you cannot run a 64 bit program in a 32 bit os. There's no need to restrict anything as 32 bit program will run in 32 bit, 64 bit program will run in 64 bit, they can't change the bit they run at but a 64 bit os can run both.
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October 6, 2011 6:45:33 AM

If you plan to use 4GB or more of RAM, get 64 bit. The 64 bit OS can run 32 bit applications. You're way over thinking this lol.
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October 6, 2011 7:08:30 AM

Just get 64bit if you have 4 or more gigs RAM.
Get 64 bit anyway if you are worried about being future proof.
A no brainer.
Only concider 32 bit if you MUST use very specific 32bit device drivers. If you are not sure, get 64bit.

I'm running 64bit Windows 7 with ZERO issues with software or drivers.
I can even run 10 year old funky games.
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October 6, 2011 7:43:19 AM

Well PCIE 2.0 x16 is only 32 bits/lanes wide but im using a laptop so I don't know if mxm works the same way. But using more modules would have to work faster.
I don't know a whole lot about how it works but I would think using 2x4gbs would run slower then 4x2gb @ the same frequency?


Maybe just get one of those new computers with Pci-e 3.0 x16 slot so it could be 128 bits/lanes wide but faster with a bit rate of 8 gigatransfers per second and dual channel ddr3 would be 128 bit as well.
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October 6, 2011 8:09:33 AM

Ok so this link explains mxm 3.0b. It supports up to 256 bit memory width. I think that means I good with a windows 7 64 bit and 4 modules of ddr3 ram. 64 bit x 4 is 256 bits. fully beneficial. Does that mean I'll only be able to take full advantage of 3 modules of ram? 64 bit x 3 is 192 and that's what the gpu is?
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October 6, 2011 8:19:29 AM

I am not even aware that memory has anything to do with PCIE 2.0. If you read this article you will find there are 128 physical data wire connecting memory to CPU, split into 2 64bit hence duel channel so if you connect 4 module, two of them will share the same set of wire hence be addressed as the same time by the CPU. So putting more module wouldn't benefit alot, even possibly using more power as there is more stuff to run.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Everything-You-N...

Your system is more likely to be bottlenecked by CPU and GPU anyway.

you mean one of those sandybridge-E with quad channel memory. Then 4 stick would help
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October 6, 2011 8:23:57 AM

the whole point of an OS is to make all this memory / modules / ram / lanes etc transparent to user and programs. Why are you banging on about chipset details as if it has some bearing on Windows x64. Its simple: if you got 2GB of RAM only get the 32 bit version, if you have 4GB of above, get the 64 bit version. END OF STORY !!
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October 6, 2011 8:26:02 AM

oh i just got the joke... this is a wind up !!!! nice one guys, but it's not april fools so cut the c5ap
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a c 228 $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 4:13:32 PM

As others have said, you are way overthinking this. If you have more than 4 gig of ram, you'll need 64 bit in order to utilize all the memory. A 64 bit OS is always running in 64 bit mode, even when it's running 32 bit programs.

Run the upgrade advisor to make sure all your hardware will be compatible.

http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=20
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 5:07:03 PM

The OP is not joking, he is trying to figure out if 4 ram sticks are better than 2. My suggestion: forget everything you read about memory bus width, it is all irrelevant and unrelated, and before jumping into quantum physics, learn the basics.


Disclaimer: We are not actually talking about quantum physics, it is a metaphor.
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October 6, 2011 5:53:08 PM

TonyACG51 alot of the stuff you are worrying about has nothing to do with the OS. 32bit and 64bit OS's only deal with the amount of addressable memory in the computer. 32bit = 2^32 or 4GB of memory while 64bit is 2^48 or 256TB of memory (yes I know it is actually 48bit addressing and this is true for 64bit x86 machines) while windows 7 64bit actually limits you to 16GB (Home) and 128GB(Pro and above).

To answer your 7 original questions

1) Yes because a CPU in 64bit mode can still address 32bit code. Although some programs may not function due to driver issues (old Antivirus programs, Utilities, and Business apps) as 64bit windows does not support 32bit drivers. Another source of support issues comes with programs using 16bit code but those can be run under emulators that ask the processor to run in its 32bit support mode that supports 16bit code.

2) This is a Motherboard and BIOS/EFI issue. Refer to the motherboard manual or manufacturer for this type of issue. As far as the OS is concerned the BIOS/EFI tells it what it has available and it addresses it from there as long as it can address all that is available. (EX: 32bit OS running on a computer with 8GB of memory will only see 4GB at most.)

3) This is another BIOS/EFI issue along with your CPU. The OS will never see or care about this issue.

4) see 3.

5) No see 3.

7) If you are wondering if you can run Win 7 64bit on an old 32bit CPU then no. If you are worried about 32bit memory bus width then see 3.

8) see 1.

For your later issues you are dealing with the difference between how much data (64bit OS) and memory channels width which is how fast. This is why everyone is telling you not to worry about it because they are two separate issues. The only thing you need to worry about with Win7 64bit is ->

A) Does my CPU support x86-64 bit extensions. (not to be confused with IA64). All new consumer processors should support these extensions.

B) Does the OS support my Hardware, or can I replace said hardware with something newer.

C) Will my software run on this new OS, is there a replacement for said software that will run on this new OS, or can I run said software using emulation software in an acceptable manner.
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Best solution

a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 5:59:15 PM

One more thing to mention on top of what Caqde said (which is all absolutely correct) is if you *really* need to be able to run XP applications due to 64 bit issues I would check out

Windows XP Mode as part of windows 7

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/fe...

This lets you run a windows XP Virtual Machine inside of a windows 7 64-bit environment, therefore removing driver and 64bit issues.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 6:01:14 PM

Just install 64bit, i and many many others have been using it for a long time, on the same games that everyone uses, there are no problems. stop confusing yourself.
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October 6, 2011 6:32:45 PM

Best answer selected by TonyACG51.
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October 6, 2011 6:37:23 PM

itzdanielp said:
One more thing to mention on top of what Caqde said (which is all absolutely correct) is if you *really* need to be able to run XP applications due to 64 bit issues I would check out

Windows XP Mode as part of windows 7

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/fe...

This lets you run a windows XP Virtual Machine inside of a windows 7 64-bit environment, therefore removing driver and 64bit issues.



The biggest issue is that the CPU is 64 bit and running a 32 bit OS would need to divide it some how or something. Using XP mode will work at least til I can use quad-channel memory. This is the only way I can find to use 32 bit with having a 64 bit windows. Thanks!
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 7:03:04 PM

TonyACG51 said:
The biggest issue is that the CPU is 64 bit and running a 32 bit OS would need to divide it some how or something. Using XP mode will work at least til I can use quad-channel memory. This is the only way I can find to use 32 bit with having a 64 bit windows. Thanks!


No it doesn't, a 64bit cpu happily runs a 32bit OS or a 64bit OS. There is a limit to how much memory space can be addressed by a 32 bit OS, but this is an address space issue not a bandwidth issue.

A 64 bit OS will run 32 bit apps happily (but not 16bit). You don't need to 'find a way' to run 32 bit apps, you just run them, however you might be trying to run 16bit apps, give us some examples.

Why do you think that quad channel memory has to do with anything, the OS sees that there is memory the hardware interprets how that memory is configured and how quick it can work, the OS just knows that there is an amount of memory.

Its not as complex as you think.
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October 6, 2011 7:22:49 PM

Any thing running DirectX 9 or older i'll use XP mode and DirectX 10 and 11 I'll use Winows pro 64. I also use 3D APIs like blender that 32bit just sucks for lol I mean its got limits I think relate to capacity of memory. 3D seems to run fine in 32 bit but a lot of other page say 64bit is best for 3D APIs so i'll get the Windows 7 pro 64 so that I have the "best of both worlds".
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 7:28:22 PM

I'd dual boot in that case, it'll give you a full install and no issues with hardware not being properly respresented in the virtual machine, and you aren't consuming ram on the host OS.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 7:33:20 PM

TonyACG51 said:
The biggest issue is that the CPU is 64 bit and running a 32 bit OS would need to divide it some how or something. Using XP mode will work at least til I can use quad-channel memory. This is the only way I can find to use 32 bit with having a 64 bit windows. Thanks!



The *only* difference that the operating system and most programs see between a 32bit and 64bit Operating system is the ability to address more than 4GB of RAM.


Almost all CPU's since the AMD Athlon 64 came out in 2003 have been 64-bit CPU's and I have never seen a single problem with any CPU since then running Windows XP 32bit or Win Vista/7 32bit except that they can't address more than 4GB or RAM.

Every single CPU made today supports x86 (32bit) or x64 (64bit) instruction sets and will see ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE between a 64bit or 32bit operating system.


Again, the ONLY DIFFERENCE between 64bit os and 32bit os is the ability to address more than 4GB of RAM. Switching to quad channel memory DOES NOTHING to the operating system.

The OS (either 64bit or 32bit) does not control how the Motherboard deals with data flow, the CPU and Northbridge control how data flows and what is used and not used.

You asked "Can windows 64 restrict use of 64 bit when using 32 bit?"
The answer is YES. If a program is running in 32bit mode, it will ONLY run in 32 bit mode. There is no way for windows to change how the program was designed and give it access to more than it was designed for.

So, using a 64bit operating system and running 32bit programs is perfectly acceptable and normal and is in no way detrimental to the system's performance since it IS DESIGNED to run 32bit programs since VERY FEW programs are actually coded for 64bit operation.
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October 6, 2011 7:34:37 PM

13thmonkey said:
I'd dual boot in that case, it'll give you a full install and no issues with hardware not being properly respresented in the virtual machine, and you aren't consuming ram on the host OS.


LOL but the host can only be 64 bit meaning ill have 4GB memory or more to host a small 32 bit @ 3.5GB memory or less. Then the question is does a data dump hosting 32 bit OS dump memory configure of the 64 bit or 32 bit? That could be a problem.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 7:38:33 PM

TonyACG51 said:
Any thing running DirectX 9 or older i'll use XP mode and DirectX 10 and 11 I'll use Winows pro 64. I also use 3D APIs like blender that 32bit just sucks for lol I mean its got limits I think relate to capacity of memory. 3D seems to run fine in 32 bit but a lot of other page say 64bit is best for 3D APIs so i'll get the Windows 7 pro 64 so that I have the "best of both worlds".



This would actually be detrimental to performance.

I don't understand what is difficult about this... There is NO DIFFERENCE if you run a 32bit program in a 32bit Operating system or a 64bit operating system!!!


however running a game in XP mode will bring your performance down, because you are using your Operating system, to run another operating system, to run a game. This will be horrible for performance.


Do this, you can always change later.


1. Install Windows 7 64bit.
2. Install any of your old "Direct X 9" games

you will see that they install into a separate program Files folder on your drive (Program Files (x86)) instead of just (Program Files) this makes sure that windows will run it AS A 32BIT PROGRAM.

You will NOT SEE ANY DIFFERENCE running an older DX9 game on a 32 bit os or a 64bit os.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 7:43:21 PM

TonyACG51 said:
LOL but the host can only be 64 bit meaning ill have 4GB memory or more to host a small 32 bit @ 3.5GB memory or less. Then the question is does a data dump hosting 32 bit OS dump memory configure of the 64 bit or 32 bit? That could be a problem.



If you dual booted a 64bit / 32bit OS when you turned your computer on and decided which OS you are going to launch windows would then address the max. If you chose 32bit it would only address a max of 4GB, meaning the first 4GB of data blocks the BIOS has access to. Anything above those first 4GB of data blocks the OS CAN NOT SEE AT ALL.

But, if you chose 64Bit mode, it would do the same, except it would see all memory installed.

There is no problem with that at all.


Also, there is NO HOST that can ONLY be 64bit. EVERY PROCESSOR that is 64bit supports a 32bit instruction set.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 7:43:27 PM

TonyACG51 said:
LOL but the host can only be 64 bit meaning ill have 4GB memory or more to host a small 32 bit @ 3.5GB memory or less. Then the question is does a data dump hosting 32 bit OS dump memory configure of the 64 bit or 32 bit? That could be a problem.


Sorry tony, but the tail end of that sentence makes no sense.

If you've got 6GB of RAM, win764 + some apps = 2GB the virtual machine software perhaps 200MB, leaving 3.8GB for the memory for the virtual machine, all ok whilst you are running just 2GB of host machine, or if you have more than 6GB of Host RAM.

If you are thinking that 64 and 32 bit OS's write to disks differently they don't, so saving a file on the virtual machine is ok, and it will be readable by the host machine, if it is placed in a location they can both see (a bit of setup required).
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October 6, 2011 7:48:53 PM

itzdanielp said:
This would actually be detrimental to performance.

I don't understand what is difficult about this... There is NO DIFFERENCE if you run a 32bit program in a 32bit Operating system or a 64bit operating system!!!


however running a game in XP mode will bring your performance down, because you are using your Operating system, to run another operating system, to run a game. This will be horrible for performance.


Do this, you can always change later.


1. Install Windows 7 64bit.
2. Install any of your old "Direct X 9" games

you will see that they install into a separate program Files folder on your drive (Program Files (x86)) instead of just (Program Files) this makes sure that windows will run it AS A 32BIT PROGRAM.

You will NOT SEE ANY DIFFERENCE running an older DX9 game on a 32 bit os or a 64bit os.


Truth is that was way to easy. I don't have 64 bit windows so I dint think it would divide the difference like that. The sales point of windows 7 pro with XP mode sounds null then. I don't assume these things know any better it's just a computer. Then I have to know that if I buy a cheaper version such as windows 7 home 64 that'll ill get the same options as the windows 7 pro 64. You see the thing is saving money is good. So what you're telling me is that all 64 bit windows can operate 32 bit software?
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 7:52:29 PM

Yes, All versions of win 7 64bit can operate 32bit software. That is how they are designed. They HAVE to be able to run 32bit software, because ALMOST ALL software on the market is 32bit, with few exceptions.

you do NOT need to put 64bit windows into any special mode or settings at all. Just install it, and it will see if it is supposed to be run in 32bit mode or 64bit mode and run it accordingly.

You don't need to do anything at all, just install and run.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 8:17:09 PM

finally
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October 6, 2011 8:49:18 PM

So I can use 64 bit width x 64 bit length x 64 bit depth x 64 bit height? and divide with in these means? Like it's 3 axis (3D)?
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 8:51:22 PM

Yes, the operating system looks at none of those. Those are all done by the hardware (CPU / NB / MB / RAM) so it doesn't matter which OS
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October 6, 2011 9:14:53 PM

Cool that means that when you say that only use 64 bit OS for 4GB or more of memory that's because bit width is not the only factor. I can then use high frequency to allow 64 bit length, height, and depth as needed. That makes passing data to the gpu limited to 64 bit width and the rest is off loaded by the gpu in length, height, and depth. LOL that explains the gap in memory configure from 128 bit to 192 bit. I believe that means network input has another 64 bit width to work with. Cool! So in a 3D modeling API the gap would be hardware accelerated? Maybe want to go with a 256 bit GPU then for better performance (multitask multi-device, dual precision). Then all i'll have to do is learn how to program it LOL.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 9:31:45 PM

TonyACG51 said:
Cool that means that when you say that only use 64 bit OS for 4GB or more of memory that's because bit width is not the only factor. I can then use high frequency to allow 64 bit length, height, and depth as needed. That makes passing data to the gpu limited to 64 bit width and the rest is off loaded by the gpu in length, height, and depth. LOL that explains the gap in memory configure from 128 bit to 192 bit. I believe that means network input has another 64 bit width to work with. Cool! So in a 3D modeling API the gap would be hardware accelerated? Maybe want to go with a 256 bit GPU then for better performance (multitask multi-device, dual precision). Then all i'll have to do is learn how to program it LOL.


No no no and no

in order to read and write from memory you have have to know where you have put it (think draws in a filing cabinet), in a 32bit OS you have 3.5 million of them each holding 1000 things.

In a 64bit OS you have trillions of trillions of draws each holding 1000 things.

Thats it, there's nothing more to it.

Some mother boards have supper fast trollies that fetch things from the drawers, some have slow ones, some fetch from 2, 3 or 4 drawers at conce, some from only 1.

With graphics cards the number of trollies working at any time is really important, this equates to bandwidth.
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October 6, 2011 10:00:16 PM

13thmonkey said:
No no no and no

in order to read and write from memory you have have to know where you have put it (think draws in a filing cabinet), in a 32bit OS you have 3.5 million of them each holding 1000 things.

In a 64bit OS you have trillions of trillions of draws each holding 1000 things.

Thats it, there's nothing more to it.

Some mother boards have supper fast trollies that fetch things from the drawers, some have slow ones, some fetch from 2, 3 or 4 drawers at conce, some from only 1.

With graphics cards the number of trollies working at any time is really important, this equates to bandwidth.



Yeah and when you visualize 100 yards of a viewpoint you'll want trillions of drawers so that 3D viewpoint can be changed asap. Like looking down a road traveling 60 MPH, you can see all 100 yards but it's moving the viewpoint 60 mph, so the viewpoint changes with you @ 60 mph. With more memory blocks the viewpoint can change more times, and with multi-channel memory you can make a right or left turn at any point while traveling and still have 100 yards of viewpoint. Now what needs to be done is with in that viewpoint I need to see 100 yards but not all 100 yards as clearly as say the first 20 yards. So addressing those of blocks of data as 16 bit x 2 x 2 (or 32 x 2 x 2, then means dual-channel 16 x2 x2 x16 x2 x2 I think) would allow me to blur the difference with maintaining 3D axis. With 64 bit I could divide 64 down to 16 @ 4 x and allow blur @ 5, 10, 15 and 20 yards I think, then add 3D axis and I can maintain that blur as well as depth in one swift read.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 10:07:35 PM

This is why I said forget everything you read about bus width. The only thing you should concern yourself with is 64bit windows can use more than 4gb ram, everything else is hardware related and you have no control over. Even bus width in a gpu really makes no difference, a gpu with 512 bit bus can be slower than a 32 bit bus width as that's not the only factor for performance.

It would be easier to help pick parts and then explain those choices rather than explaining electronic engineering, unless that's what you want to do.
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 6, 2011 10:08:22 PM

I have no idea what you are talking about, the number of filing cabinets is OS related. Everything else is hardware related and not at all related to the OS in a way you can effect. You cannot ask the OS to access memory in a specific way, it will just ask for stuff from memory and the hardware will deal ensuring that all of the data is provided efficiently.
You cannot ask that the OS splits the dual channel memory into segments and pulls different daya from each segment. You'd need to re-write very lowelevel pieces of OS that talk to the mobo.
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October 6, 2011 10:38:39 PM

A lot of people seem to think that 64 bits of address space can be accessed twice as fast as 32 bit address space - 'cos you know, a 64 bit wide bus is twice as wide as a 32 bit wide bus, so obviously you can pump twice as much data over it, right? Wrong. They really need to do some reading as what addressing 64 bits actually means with respect to RAM.
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October 6, 2011 10:59:37 PM

I think you guys are getting troll'd. HARD.
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October 6, 2011 11:03:35 PM

The goal is to produce a outcome. no need to line up bit width in other words.
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October 6, 2011 11:22:23 PM

nitrium said:
A lot of people seem to think that 64 bits of address space can be accessed twice as fast as 32 bit address space - 'cos you know, a 64 bit wide bus is twice as wide as a 32 bit wide bus, so obviously you can pump twice as much data over it, right? Wrong. They really need to do some reading as what addressing 64 bits actually means with respect to RAM.

Yeah I think I need more info about it too. It's kinda hard to see through. Math comes first then again in frequency. Bit width must be used to call info from one spot on memory to complete the frequent task. The higher the bit width the more option you have. but all it comes down to in the end (so it seams) is capacity. I still believe that a higher bit width will allow to cpu to complete 3D tasks faster, being that the memory's not shared leaving each channel to its job. Maybe I should just go to school for it XD. People really pay for this info.
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October 7, 2011 3:57:32 AM

This thread perfectly illustrates why OS / hardware is largerly independent and we have various layers of abstraction in modern day programming. It's so we can actually get something done without needing to worry about all this c5ap.

TonyACG51 you are an a55hole looking for cheap thrills wallowing around in this like a semi retard probably giggling and laughing at yourself and how clever you are wasting peoples time with this nonsense. I am only taking the time to reply because I want you to know I realized what you were doing from pretty much post 1 and I think you are peice of ****.
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October 7, 2011 4:31:40 AM

Maximus_Delta said:
This thread perfectly illustrates why OS / hardware is largerly independent and we have various layers of abstraction in modern day programming. It's so we can actually get something done without needing to worry about all this c5ap.

TonyACG51 you are an a55hole looking for cheap thrills wallowing around in this like a semi retard probably giggling and laughing at yourself and how clever you are wasting peoples time with this nonsense. I am only taking the time to reply because I want you to know I realized what you were doing from pretty much post 1 and I think you are peice of ****.



;;;;; All I want to know is how to multiply a processors bit rate read from the memory so that it could divide faster. Using a 32 bit os was simply so that a 64 bit processor could divide twice as much data, like half of what 64 bit process is. But I think it's kinda funny to think that the only benefit is data capacity. Whatever... answer is to use more for less.... The only reason I replied was to get the last word, I got my answer. {solved} Add a cool app HAHAHA!
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a b $ Windows 7
a b } Memory
October 7, 2011 7:16:05 AM

falcompsx said:
I think you guys are getting troll'd. HARD.


i'm inclined to agree, oh for an ignore list, he'd be on ir forever.
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a c 395 $ Windows 7
a c 99 } Memory
October 7, 2011 8:47:42 PM

This topic has been closed by Area51reopened
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