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5770 crossfire vs single 5870

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 25, 2009 10:42:55 AM

hi everyone, i have a build below and i really cant choose from that one and the exact same build but with an 5870 inplace of the two 5770's, the build below is £994 and with a 5870 it is £1079. i can afford the 5870 but i have also got to buy gaming keyboard and mouse and a pair of speakers, so i would rather not spend more when the 5770 crossfire would be good enough. my uses for this build would be just alot of gaming, everything max, going crazy. the obvious example crysis etc.

AMD PHENOM II X4 965 SOCKET AM3 (3.40GHz/8MB CACHE) - BLACK EDITION
Memory (RAM
8GB CORSAIR XMS3 DUAL-DDR3 1333MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY
Motherboard
ASUS® M4A79XTD EVO: DUAL DDR3, S-ATA II, 2 x PCIe x16, 2 x PCIe x1, 2 x PCI
Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (£79)
USB Options
8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
1TB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 16MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
22x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Graphics Card
1GB ATI RADEON™ HD 5770 PCI EXPRESS - DirectX® 11
2nd Graphics Card
1GB ATI RADEON™ HD 5770 PCI EXPRESS - DirectX® 11
Power Supply & Case Cooling
800W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£95)
Processor Cooling
SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE CPU COOLER (£19)

thanks for any replies :D 
October 25, 2009 10:53:43 AM

IMO if you need 5870 performance, go with the 5870. It sounds like gaming is important to you so also consider that with 2 5770s, you really have nowhere to go (ok...I suppose you could triple them if that setup works on your motherboard, but...really? ;P) To me it's silly to use 2 GPUs instead of just 1 if they are roughly the same performance, unless you currently already have 1 5770 and need more power.

I'm pretty sure one 5870 is more desirable than Cross Fire 5770s anyway (4870 > 5770, and 1 5870 > 2 4870s on average), and when the 5870 gets cheaper, or games released in a year or two need more power, a second 5870 seems like an easy upgrade decision compared to 3 5770s or completely scrapping them for a better dual GPU solution. Just my opinion.
October 25, 2009 11:06:06 AM

yeah, that has made it much clear to me, i never thought into that much detail. thanks my friend, but i havnt told you this is christmas buy, so hopefully the prices will be down even more as they have even been fluctuating in the last month as it is.
Related resources
October 25, 2009 11:06:53 AM

1: change cpu to 955 instead of 965.

2: get 5850 instead of 5870.

3: get a razer deathadder and lycosa.

4: 8gb and 4gb ram wont affect ur gaming only when ur doing some intense calculation applications.
October 25, 2009 11:08:02 AM

haf 922 case is kik ass and so is 932, i highly recommend.
October 25, 2009 11:48:51 AM

rescawen: i think what you've put is very helpful but i just want to clarify something, would a 5850 be able to max crysis 1680 x 1080 4 x aa?
October 25, 2009 11:54:07 AM

wow, rescawen i did what you told me:

Processor (CPU)
AMD PHENOM II X4 955 SOCKET AM3 (3.20GHz/8MB CACHE) - BLACK EDITION
Memory (RAM)
4GB CORSAIR XMS3 DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY
Motherboard
ASUS® M4A79XTD EVO: DUAL DDR3, S-ATA II, 2 x PCIe x16, 2 x PCIe x1, 2 x PCI
Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (£79)
USB Options
8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
1TB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 16MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
22x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Graphics Card
1GB ATI RADEON™ HD 5850 PCI EXPRESS - DirectX® 11
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Case
STYLISH PIANO BLACK FUSION CASE inc. 2 FRONT USB
Power Supply & Case Cooling
600W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£59)
Processor Cooling
SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE CPU COOLER (£19)

MASSIVE SAVING, it only costs £824 now, so might add a few things and are you sure 8GB or RAM compared to my 4 now will not effect my gaming?
October 25, 2009 12:06:44 PM

Also why go for 955 instead of 965?
October 25, 2009 1:28:50 PM

955 and 965 are essentially the same chip which means that they OC to the same limits. 965 uses 140w power compared to 955s 125w.

If u still have money get a quality noctua CPU fan.

yes 5850 will play crysis on max settings at 4xaa, the link below tells u will hit atleast 30 fps which is max what human can detect.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5850/10.html

Get razer mouse and keyboard, they rock!!!!
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 3:31:23 PM

rescawen said:
30 fps which is max what human can detect.


I was with you somewhat up until that statement, which is BS. Your personal perception may be limited to 30fps by some injury or deficiency, but most other humans can detect far higher framerate changes than that. :non: 
This has be discussed a bazillion times before, and a little research on your part would fix your ignorance on the subject, especially as it relates to detection versus perception.

As for the OP, it's depend on the price difference, but the HD5870 will likely age better than the HD5850, which like other past runner-ups will likely fall behind a little more as it ages. It's not worth alot more, but if the premium is only a bit, then the HD5870 would give you more legs into the future.

The main issue with HD5770 and Xfiring is that it doesn't need much more shader power, it could use better ROP, Texture and memory boost, but those don't translate as well through Xfire, and once again would be somewhat future-limited, and would also rely a bit on Xfire drivers to ensure smooth support at the launch of new games.
October 25, 2009 4:03:15 PM

5870 for 1680x1050 lol?
October 25, 2009 4:13:12 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
[...]


I'm unsure why the rudeness was required, the dude was attempting to be helpful.
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 4:41:13 PM

rescawen said:
5870 for 1680x1050 lol?


Yeah, guess if you're stuck at 30fps it wouldn't matter to you that even in the example you linked to it makes +20% difference.
Of course that 38 vs 32 fps is the AVG and not even the Minimum FPS, which means you're going to have dips in performance, likely even below that 30fps barrier you THINK makes everything smooth as silk. [:thegreatgrapeape:5]
Also as if nothing coming out in the future would ever stress anything more than Crysis.

purplefire said:
I'm unsure why the rudeness was required, the dude was attempting to be helpful.


He's not being as helpful as you think on the graphics side of the equation, especially in reply to the direct question being asked about Crysis @ 16x10 with AA, and part of that is due to his ignorance about framerates both the BS about what humans can detect and his mis-understanding of what makes fluid framerates in games (it about large min fps dips, not mediocre averages that are barely fluid).

I don't disagree with him on the other recommendations they won't be as limiting, especially with OCing, but his statements about the graphics are off and myopic.

Think otherwise, fine, but he's giving bad advice on the graphics and is sucking the OP right in to his misconceptions about physiology as it relates to framerates. And I'll call that out every time, especially since it's the same tripe as nV image quality sucks or ATi drivers suck, etc.
October 25, 2009 4:51:51 PM

I'm asking you, is it worth it to pay 1/3 price more for 1/6 more performance, my suggestion is no, because you can buy a gaming mouse, keyboard and headsets with it, well i guess 6 fps is worth much more than that isn't it.

purple fire, u do the right choice. I don't know what eyes do thegreatape have, but im certainly satisfied with 25 fps in a shooter game.
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 5:01:25 PM

Just get a single 5870. That'll pretty much last you for at least 2 years. In 1-2 years, get another 5870 for Xfire when the price drops by probably 40-50%
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 5:20:03 PM

That's actually 1.3 the price for 1/5 more, but it also in the case of the OP's specific question means it's closer to playability than being 1/5 less, because the more power translates into less framerate drops and far better playability.

This wasn't a question for the base usability, he was pretty specific about the playability at a resolution and mentioned a game, and then you show him AVG framerates that are barely fluid and mention the maximum a human can detect, both of which are misleading BS.

To the point of the original thread, the HD5770 is cheaper, but ufortunately doesn't provide the boost one would expect in the game currently being slower than the HD5850 even just at 'High' not 'Very High';

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5770,2446...

When at Very high the difference becomes pronnounced so that the HD5850 underperforms the 4870x2, and is right near the regular 4870 which would give you the same return on your ratios;
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5850,2433...

You can talk about ratios and return on that, but that leads you to "is an HD5K card worth nearly 3 times the price of a GTS250? to just get less than 2X the speed", the answer to that is yes if the OP is asking for "just alot of gaming, everything max, going crazy."

The reality is that the HD5870 gives a better experience, and you're selling him short for a keyboard and mouse, when with the other savings, he's already got that covered, and if he were going to save elsewhere it would be better to scrimp on the things easily upgradable, not those that he has to invest in replacing both with time and money. If it doesn't do what he wants right now, let alone tomorrow, then what's the savings worth?

And your misconception about perception makes matters worse. Some ignorant individual told you that 30fps phrase and you repeat it, and it makes it tougher on those who know better , just like the driver and image quality statements, because to some individual "well that's what I see, so it must be true for everyone else", and thus negatively impact someone else's selection based on that insulated view. :pfff: 
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 5:28:02 PM

Also look at the HD5850 vs 5870 in the [H] review that shows you the impact of the difference in power with deep dips into the framerate well in their histogram (although they only tested evenly at the apples to apples section). They say playable @ 16x12, but without AA;

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/09/30/amds_ati_rade...

And even the crossfire future for the 5850 vs 5870 seems equally limited.
October 25, 2009 5:36:52 PM

230 and 330 u do the math? 330 is definitely not 1.3 times 230. We are not going to see anything for the next year that requires more than the current hardware of crysis.
The most important thing in gaming is a game which can be played for a long time, but we cannot judge which card to buy just on crysis.

For example games which have good lasting appeal such as RTS gaming or mmorpg, we rarely get games like COD4 which people wanna play online for a long and persistent time. Therefore i still think 5850 is a better choice and xfiring a pair of those is more than enough in the future. These games which last long don't require the best hardware and its not worth buying 1000 euro hardware a decent fps shooter with good graphics to enjoy for 2 weeks or 1 month if u replay it.
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 5:51:19 PM

rescawen said:
230 and 330 u do the math? 330 is definitely not 1.3 times 230. We are not going to see anything for the next year that requires more than the current hardware of crysis.
The most important thing in gaming is a game which can be played for a long time, but we cannot judge which card to buy just on crysis.

For example games which have good lasting appeal such as RTS gaming or mmorpg, we rarely get games like COD4 which people wanna play online for a long and persistent time. Therefore i still think 5850 is a better choice and xfiring a pair of those is more than enough in the future. These games which last long don't require the best hardware and its not worth buying 1000 euro hardware a decent fps shooter with good graphics to enjoy for 2 weeks or 1 month if u replay it.


Think of the future you knutcase. Games can only get to looking better, and requiring higher graphics power. Crysis may soon be knocked out.

October 25, 2009 6:07:19 PM

the games which last for long and are actually much more fun then good looking games which last for 2 weeks.

Are u seriously retarded, the other thread u said that the e8400 was bottlenecking the GTX295 on 1200x1000 resolution. pls gtfo the forums ty.
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 6:12:58 PM

Res, I didn't come up with the 1.3, you did, saying 1/3 more which equates to 1.3, so either your numbers were wrong or your math is wrong.

BTW, I said to the OP in the opening sentence it's depending on price, because he's in the UK and doesn't have the US pricing, and didn't reveal the source for the prices.

But of course you miss the main point that the HD5850 won't do what you're saying it will do whether it's priced at 230 or 270 monetary units, so that's a secondary point, the first being the Xfired 5770 falling short in the original question asked by the OP, and then the best fit for his everything at max is more important.
He should save his money elsewhere where your other suggestions have merit, but the scrimping on the graphics card causes the build to fall short without the OC option of the CPU.

As for games more stressful than Crysis, guess you haven't heard of a game called Stalker: Call of Pripyat with all it's DX11 goodness. It's going to be difficult on cards with both efficiency improvements on tough implementations and extra shiny meaty goodness. It may or may not be a good game (won't know til it launches in N.A.) but it looks to put more of a hurt on cards than Crysis, and this is just the end of this year, not net year's games.

And take your own advice, due to your BS 30fps advise PFO !!
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 6:19:44 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
As for games more stressful than Crysis, guess you haven't heard of a game called Stalker: Call of Pripyat with all it's DX11 goodness. !!


I've seen some of the screenshots, and it's graphics aren't nearly as good as Crysis. The Stalker series probably has worse coding than either Crysis or even GTA4.

From the screenshots here:
http://cop.stalker-game.com/

The screenshots are comparable to Crysis on "high" settings. Crysis on VH still looks better and ultra-high modded blows it away.

Crysis is still king for the time being. =D

October 25, 2009 6:27:47 PM

exacty my point
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 6:37:17 PM

Bluescreendeath said:
I've seen some of the screenshots, and it's graphics aren't nearly as good as Crysis. The Stalker series probably has worse coding than either Crysis or even GTA4.

From the screenshots here:
http://cop.stalker-game.com/

The screenshots are comparable to Crysis on "high" settings. Crysis on VH still looks better and ultra-high modded blows it away.

Crysis is still king for the time being. =D


Eh, it doesn't look like they were using any Anti-Aliasing in those screenshots. Also the game isn't released yet. The models they show actually look pretty good, they're just jaggy. It'll probably look comparable.
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 6:47:03 PM

go 5870 and later CF when prices drop hopefully by a marge margin , as 4870 launched at 300$ but is 150~160 now .
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 6:48:46 PM

It's not even about anti-aliasing. I only played Crysis at with AA at x2 or my comp would take a massive framerate hit, and it looked way better.

Crysis just has better textures, and the most important thing: better HDR/lighting effects or shaders.

For example, these are pics with the Crysis engine, comparable to UltraHigh modded Crysis graphics ingame:

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=69249

The pic with the river is amazing. I downloaded Cuban's UltraHigh "lite" mod and the water effects did almost look just as good.
a b U Graphics card
October 25, 2009 6:57:10 PM

Bluescreendeath said:
I've seen some of the screenshots, and it's graphics aren't nearly as good as Crysis. The Stalker series probably has worse coding than either Crysis or even GTA4...


But remember, we're talking about stress on the setup, not better looking or more fun to play, like I said it may be a terrible game, might not even look as good, but sofar it does look to stress the cards & system more.
That was the point, not that HL2:EP3 may be far better looking yet be easier on systems or some other comparison. Quite simply, other games will be tougher than just Crysis, and even moded Crysis is tougher than 'just Crysis' which was the point, even if coded worse the end result is the same (need more power to make playable at it's high settings). It's not about the value of the game itself, but the benefit of having more power if it's worthwhile, and it appears to be worthwhile even in Crysis, let alone next year's games.
October 25, 2009 7:28:25 PM

by the way people im going with a 5850 now because of budget, but i will most likely crossfire it as soon as possible or what i actually just thought this second if it isnt needed what tbh it wont be for a while il just get another 5850 maybe end of this year, maybe next year depending on what games come out and their requirements
October 26, 2009 5:14:33 AM

ty, man i knew ud make the right decision and btw get the gaming mouse a steelseries siberia headset.
October 26, 2009 7:07:03 AM

With the saving on the CPU you might as well pick up a 5870 instead of the 5850... but Its up to you.
October 26, 2009 2:35:31 PM

hold on, ive changed it quite a bit, il post the build in 2 ticks
October 26, 2009 2:43:52 PM

LittleBaByJESUS said:
With the saving on the CPU you might as well pick up a 5870 instead of the 5850... but Its up to you.


have u thought of him getting a pair of 5850s, which is the very maximum his CPU even at maximum OC can handle dude and a good corsair PSU.
October 26, 2009 2:44:31 PM

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Processor i7-860 (2.80GHz) 8MB Cache + HyperThreading

Memory (RAM)
4GB CORSAIR XMS3 DUAL-DDR3 1600MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY

Motherboard
GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2: DDR3, SATA II, 2 PCI, 1 PCI-Ex

Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (£79)

USB Options
8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD

Memory - 1st Hard Disk
1TB SERIAL ATA 3-Gb/s HARD DRIVE WITH 16MB CACHE (7,200rpm)

2nd Hard Disk
NONE

RAID (HDD 1 & 2)
NONE

1st CD/DVD Drive
22x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM

2nd CD/DVD Drive
NONE

Graphics Card
1GB ATI RADEON™ HD 5850 PCI EXPRESS - DirectX® 11

2nd Graphics Card
NONE

Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

Network Facilities
WIRELESS N 300Mbps PCI CARD (£16)

Modem
NONE, I WILL BE USING BROADBAND

Floppy Disk Drive
NONE

Memory Card Reader
INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)

Case
COOLERMASTER SILEO 500 QUIET MID TOWER CASE

Power Supply & Case Cooling
600W Quiet Quad Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£59)

Processor Cooling
COOLERMASTER V8 EXTREME CPU COOLER - Experinece the power of V8 (£49)

Firewire & Video Editing
2 x IEEE 1394a FIREWIRE PORTS (1 onboard, 1 at back panel)

TV Card
NONE

Monitor
NONE

2nd Monitor
NONE

GeForce 3D Vision
NONE

DVI Cable
NONE

Keyboard & Mouse
NONE

Mouse
Razer Deathadder Re-Spawn 3500DPI Infrared Gaming Mouse (£39)

Speakers
LOGITECH S220 2.1 SILVER/BLACK SPEAKER SYSTEM (£16)

Webcam
NONE

Headsets (VOIP)
NONE

Surge Protection
Belkin 4 Socket 2M Surge Protector with £25,000 Protection! (£8)

Printer
NONE

Anti-Virus
KASPERSKY ANTI-VIRUS 2010 - 1 Year Licence for 1 PC (£8)

Office Software
NONE

External Hard Drive
NONE

Home Installation
NONE

Warranty
1 Year Return-to-Base incl 1st Month Free Collect & Return

Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)

Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 11 to 13 working days

Quantity

October 26, 2009 2:49:56 PM

whats the total and make sure mobo supports CF. Get a quality PSU which would support 2 5850s, but if u buy a phenom 955 with AM2+, u will save a lot more money. And adding all the 4xaa u want it won't make any difference in gaming, but taking off the 4xaa the intel is better.
October 26, 2009 2:52:34 PM

it does support crossfire and i thought the intel would be better just overall not just gaming ?
October 26, 2009 2:56:01 PM

same if u apply 4xaa in everygame
October 26, 2009 2:57:52 PM

ah ok, but i looked at benchmarks with that cpu and the p55 and its better in everything that it, but if there a major saving then il stick with p55. cheers for input, if theres any more advise it is welcome :D 
October 26, 2009 3:00:20 PM

hmm well, i have redone the spec and with the p55 its £977 so thats a pretty good savingg and dont say crossfire 5850 or get a 5870 because that adds like 100+ and i cant afford that because if i crossfire i need a better PSU and if i 5870 its like 150 or more soo :/ 
October 26, 2009 3:01:04 PM

yes good,
October 26, 2009 3:04:30 PM

another question now i have money to spair if i upgrade the ram to 8BG 1333mhz instead of 4GB 1600 mhz is that worth it because i heard more than 4 GB's would affect games tho wil it afect other things like application for example 3ds max (game design program)?
October 26, 2009 5:47:17 PM

well i told u it wouldn't affect gaming but intense calculation programs maybe. You must understand what ram does in the computer. The more ram means more applications and speed of ram doesn't really affect gaming.

computers have evolved into a stage where cpu and ram have lost there importance compared to GFX. Its always about getting the cheapest other components and buying best possible monitor and gfx.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/memory-module-upgrade,rev...

take a look
October 26, 2009 6:20:46 PM

I would get the 5870. Dealing with one GPU card is better than having to deal with 2.

I have a 4870 and can play Crysis 1920x1200 with 2x and it plays smooth. Sometimes during explosions, it gets a little jumpy, but not a big deal. With a 5870 or 5850 you should be good for now.
October 26, 2009 10:19:12 PM

*** ing 5870, so looks like 5850 :/  but as im gona buy on boxing day or around january sales i shld get much cheaper to be quite honest, so it is looking up :D 
December 5, 2009 4:15:25 AM

When will the 5850 drop to $200? I would like to know.
a b U Graphics card
December 5, 2009 4:47:21 AM

quite some time before that happens .
January 10, 2010 5:20:44 PM

well the thing that no one hear seems to say is that 95% of the monitors people have are capped at 60fps due to them being 60hz so no matter what your card is outputting the monitor will only show up to 60. that being said it is really a question of longevity. are you a person that must have the newest tech? if so go for the cheapest solution that will output 60fps or above in todays most demanding games on your optimum settings/res, because you know you will be upgrading in the near future and getting a second card of this gen wont be nearly as cool as have dx 12 support or what ever the next gens new tech is. however, if you plan on keeping this set up for some time then spend as much as you can now so that you have playable frame rates for years to come. also another thing in to consider is adding an ssd. it will cut load times in your games and apps and since most games are only played for a few weeks until you beat it/ get a new game you can keep the cost down by getting a smaller drive and just moving the finished games to your data drive and only keep your current games on the ssd. also the i5 750 is nearly the same price as the 955 be but its much better and you can get a mobo w usb 3 and sata 3 for even more future proofing
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2010 7:02:15 PM

hello,
Iam getting a 5870 tommorrow.the good thing about big cards is they hold value,the 5850 is s good option as it same board ,slower chip.the value of 5870 will hold value as i want to buy a second card some time or sell and buy a new pair.
yours,
grenadierperforation.
!