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GTX 300 and HD5870X2 information

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October 26, 2009 7:17:57 PM

Hello
I am currently building a system, and am trying to choose a graphic card for it. I would like to include a new one, so if anybody has info on the 3xx series or the HD5xxxX2 series please post it here. $$

Thanks
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 26, 2009 7:27:57 PM

The 5870x2 will be renamed to the 5970. As for GT300, it won't be gamer-oriented; I think.

The 5970, which might be priced somewhere around $700 (2x 5870 is $760, but I figure around $30 price-drop per card...I dunno).
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 26, 2009 7:31:15 PM

shadow187 said:
The 5870x2 will be renamed to the 5970. As for GT300, it won't be gamer-oriented; I think.

Ati renaming cards!, never. [:mousemonkey]
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a c 130 U Graphics card
October 26, 2009 7:32:45 PM

Well that's what I've read >.> .

And it's not like "LOL 5870X2=5970. THEREFORE 5970 SHOULD BE PRICED HIGHER THAN 5870X2. DURR."

*Edit.

I just understood why you focused on RENAMED.

Fine, it's not a renaming. But 3870x2, 4870x2? It's different!
October 26, 2009 7:35:08 PM

dadude941 said:
Hello
I am currently building a system, and am trying to choose a graphic card for it. I would like to include a new one, so if anybody has info on the 3xx series or the HD5xxxX2 series please post it here. $$

Thanks


If you're "currently" building a system and want either of those cards for it, you can slow down on that project. Neither is available - not even in the "coming soon to a theater near you" kinda way. Check through locked threads for your "info". They are closed because there are so few facts available, therefore the threads are like a discussion about beliefs, not hardware.
Well, I guess you can look up 5850 crossfire info that "for reals" exists. Good luck with this thread lasting more than a few replies before it explodes or is locked.
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 26, 2009 7:35:53 PM

shadow187 said:
Well that's what I've read >.> .

And it's not like "LOL 5870X2=5970. THEREFORE 5970 SHOULD BE PRICED HIGHER THAN 5870X2. DURR."

*Edit.

I just understood why you focused on RENAMED.

Fine, it's not a renaming. But 3870x2, 4870x2? It's different!

So why not just call it a 5870 x2?
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 26, 2009 7:40:10 PM

Mousemonkey said:
So why not just call it a 5870 x2?


Because ATI wants to change something up? I dunno.

When I first saw the 4870x2, I thought it was two cards separate.
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 26, 2009 7:42:27 PM

shadow187 said:
Because ATI wants to change something up? I dunno.

So they are renaming, fair enough. Lets just make sure they get as much abuse and derision as Nvidia did. ;) 
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 26, 2009 7:45:22 PM

At least it's not a triple-renaming, or they're not going to sell old cards as next-gen.
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 26, 2009 7:54:45 PM

shadow187 said:
At least it's not a triple-renaming, or they're not going to sell old cards as next-gen.

This is only the start for them that's why :lol:  .
a b U Graphics card
October 26, 2009 8:16:02 PM

Go for the known entity today 5870....If you want more performance add another 5870.

Nobody knows what NVIDIA is trying to do?
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 1:36:40 AM

I guess if a cards been out thru 3 process shrinks, and the only things thats changed on them is clocks and the name, then yes, thats changing the name.
Until a card thats x2 named a 5970 is officially anounced and out, even then, you cant rename something thats never ever been released before, or can you?
October 27, 2009 1:56:22 AM

Mousemonkey said:
So they are renaming, fair enough. Lets just make sure they get as much abuse and derision as Nvidia did. ;) 


Are you really serious? if they took the 4870x2 and called it a 5970 THAT would be renaming (like Nvidia does)
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 1:59:01 AM

Homeboy2 said:
Are you really serious? if they took the 4870x2 and called it a 5970 THAT would be renaming (like Nvidia does)

You need to get out more. :pfff: 
October 27, 2009 2:02:17 AM

Mousemonkey said:
You need to get out more. :pfff: 



Smoggy? is that you? :pt1cable:  :pt1cable: 
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 2:02:55 AM

now them changing their naming scheme is a totally different thing that renaming an existing card to give the effect of a new card. there is a difference and imho, switching to a normal name rather than an x2 isnt a good move because the x2 really did highlight the dual-gpu feature for non-techy people. (If that name change IS true)
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 2:06:51 AM

Homeboy2 said:
Smoggy? is that you? :pt1cable:  :pt1cable: 

I have a bit more power to abuse than Smoggy does, at least as far as this forum goes anyway. :ange: 
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 2:12:08 AM

uncfan_2563 said:
now them changing their naming scheme is a totally different thing that renaming an existing card to give the effect of a new card. there is a difference and imho, switching to a normal name rather than an x2 isnt a good move because the x2 really did highlight the dual-gpu feature for non-techy people. (If that name change IS true)

This has all started because someone looked at the ini file in the 9.9 or 9.10 drivers (I don't remember or care which) and saw the 5970 designation, I have yet to see anything that confirms that as a dual GPU card.
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 2:15:36 AM

Mousemonkey said:
This has all started because someone looked at the ini file in the 9.9 or 9.10 drivers (I don't remember or care which) and saw the 5970 designation, I have yet to see anything that confirms that as a dual GPU card.

I hope not. I can't site any source because I dont remember where I saw it but on that same topic I saw a tech site saying that the 5970 was going to be a higher end single GPU chip, i guess sorta like the 4890 was?

I don't know exactly what it is but whatever competes in the highend for AMD (since they've got low-mid in their hands) is a gain for them.
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 2:39:04 AM

uncfan_2563 said:
I hope not. I can't site any source because I dont remember where I saw it but on that same topic I saw a tech site saying that the 5970 was going to be a higher end single GPU chip, i guess sorta like the 4890 was?

I don't know exactly what it is but whatever competes in the highend for AMD (since they've got low-mid in their hands) is a gain for them.

Surely the 4890's replacement should be a 5890?
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 3:09:09 AM

Well, it depends on what Fermi will be called as well.
They change their names on new releases, not old retreads, tho sometimes they do, and nVidia has done quite alot of lately, tho both have.
But on a new gen, they also dropped the XT/XTX designation as well, and so has nVidia done simlar things.
New releases are a different animal, so who knows?
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 3:19:39 AM

Or is it as uncfan alluded to, a new level that the three and four series never had? starting with the 5970 followed by a 5950 & 5980 etc.
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 3:28:00 AM

It could be just a 640 shaders thing too.
You know how they like to keep nVidia guessing...
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 3:39:11 AM

I don't think Nv are bothering with the guessing games at the moment, they're off on their own little jolly jaunt and leaving all the guessing to the forums and bloggers.
October 27, 2009 5:30:42 AM

LumberWagon said:
If you're "currently" building a system and want either of those cards for it, you can slow down on that project. Neither is available - not even in the "coming soon to a theater near you" kinda way. Check through locked threads for your "info". They are closed because there are so few facts available, therefore the threads are like a discussion about beliefs, not hardware.
Well, I guess you can look up 5850 crossfire info that "for reals" exists. Good luck with this thread lasting more than a few replies before it explodes or is locked.


It's a personal project i'm doing for school, so I have until about february to finish the computer.

Ty everybody for the info
October 27, 2009 10:18:33 AM

i think ill stick with two 5870s better than dual pcb cards any day
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 12:55:57 PM

Quote:
How can you call it renaming, when it hasn't even released yet??

Why don't you direct your post to the person who first mentioned the renaming?
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 1:08:22 PM

I restated that >.>
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 3:10:27 PM

Partial answer to the Ops question, which is, were not completely sure what the name of ATIs x2 solution is going to be, let alone infor on release/makeup of Fermi.
Too many unknowns regarding price and perf
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 3:27:39 PM

Any thread regarding unreleased cards is never a question thread; merely a discussion.

At least in my brain.
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 3:38:53 PM

Quote:

At the very leasy just state what little is known and leave it at that.


You don't leave it at that. You come up with ideas, discuss the liklihood of it, and either throw it in the trash can or submit it as plausible, then go to something new.
October 27, 2009 4:14:26 PM

I think ATi had a good idea at naming their dual cards the 5900 series. I dont see how its renaming since you cant really rename somthing that hasnt been named yet. What i mean is they're not pulling a nvidia and taking an already existing product and putting a new name on it and throwing it out as a whole new generation.

I think this might work out better because some less tech savvy people might be a bit confused with the X2 moniker. Now they can just look at the number and say "hey, higher number must mean better", I know thats not always true but alot of people like to think that way.
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 4:27:20 PM

Going OT, the 8800GTS512 were originally going to be called the 9xxx series, but something got in the way of that naming.
Anyways, back on topic.
At this point, Fermi has lil info out, some specs, but how it all matches up to perf, we just dont know.
Moving to not only a whole new arch, but a new DX, and a new approach, with drastic changes, it puts it (Fermi) in the realm of pure guessing.
Its double precision has been upped, which is useless for gaming, tho great for gpgpu usage.
Its total size, or committed silicon is over twice that found on G200, tho again, having more DP and a new approach, and having less fixed function HW, especially for tesselation, things will have to be done in SW thru its shaders, and we just dont know how that all shakes down.
The x2 might be the 59xx series, but it might not as well, and ATI has said theyd not sell a card for more than 550$, so, without its true name, and specs, we can gimpse somewhat at the costs of such a card.
Expected delivery of either card is yet unknown, with only a few hints of next year, including the x2 solution.
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 6:01:45 PM

Do people really believe fermi will be out before the 5970? I mean, really?
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 6:29:27 PM

No. At least it wont be physically here first, but the x2 could come later than we think also.
Its set to go head to head with Fermi, and tho weve seen some possible leaks, nothings confirmed, tho again, I havnt followed up as I should have.
But, hurrying a card that has no competition, unlike the 5870, which does have the 295 to compete with, and having better drivers down the line, for all cards, so when they do come out, theyll have a better showing in the new benches, as of course the x2 will obviously win anything out there
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 6:50:38 PM

Well, since this thread has deteriorated and there are no facts on the horizon, I'll throw my 2 cents in (sorry SS). For the X2 card, I think they are sitting on it as long as possible to tweak the drivers (and maybe the hardware, but it is kind of late for that). I thought a while back there was a pic of a fairly finalized X2 card, though it could have been faked (just not by NVidia's team, obviously). They'll wait as long as possible so they have a decent number of cards to sell and something more than a half working brick. Though if they have run into power envelope problems, who knows (doubt that though).

As for the possible naming scheme change (which I hope is not true, and is based on flimsy but believable evidence) I don't like it because it seems like they are copying NVidia (a GTX2'9'5 is two of their mid-upper chips, and now a 5'9'70/50 would be two of their mid-upper chips).
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 7:01:33 PM

I've never seen so many people get so up in arms about name changes. Did people really do this with NVidia? 5970/50 makes more sense because while more technically inclined people will get the X2 part to mean two GPUs, less technically inclined (there's a lot of gamers with money people), will understand that the number is higher and that it is better. Realistically, there's no reason to indicate it has two GPUs because it doesn't really matter as long as you know it will require more power and probably run hotter.
October 27, 2009 7:45:30 PM

Here is a simple possibility.


Due to thermals, it is not near twice as quick as the 5870... ATi want to avoid the comparison to 2x 5870 in crossfire, so are renaming the card...
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 8:06:02 PM

Amiga500 said:
Here is a simple possibility.


Due to thermals, it is not near twice as quick as the 5870... ATi want to avoid the comparison to 2x 5870 in crossfire, so are renaming the card...


Here is a simple possibility.


Due to [activating the side port and combining the memory pool], it is [more than] twice as quick as the 5870... ATi want to avoid the comparison to 2x 5870 in crossfire, so are renaming the card...



See what I did there...?

Funny thing about baseless information isn't it?
October 27, 2009 9:54:27 PM

daedalus685 said:
Here is a simple possibility.


Due to [activating the side port and combining the memory pool], it is [more than] twice as quick as the 5870... ATi want to avoid the comparison to 2x 5870 in crossfire, so are renaming the card...


See what I did there...?

Funny thing about baseless information isn't it?



Of course, that would mean the 5870 is memory starved as is. We know it is not - there have been articles done comparing GPUs with various amounts of RAM.



Thermals have been an issue for dual GPU cards since they were first introduced. It is not exactly a large leap to suggest ATi will have to pull the clockspeeds back to ensure reasonable power consumption and adequate heat dissipation can be achieved.



Baseless does not mean illogical.

a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 10:28:29 PM

Could be anything. I personally think AMD can hold off as long as they want almost, use the best binned parts to get a good number of these 5970's out the door at the best they can be for the initial head to head reviews.

That is what is going to count in future sales. If ATI get the drivers right, and the best binned parts out in initial 5970's then they could end up anything between 50-100% faster than the top fermi on release. This is just another one of these things that counts when you are first out the door like ATI were this time. More refinements and Nvidia are really trying to catch up all year.
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 10:51:32 PM

Amiga500 said:
Of course, that would mean the 5870 is memory starved as is. We know it is not - there have been articles done comparing GPUs with various amounts of RAM.



Thermals have been an issue for dual GPU cards since they were first introduced. It is not exactly a large leap to suggest ATi will have to pull the clockspeeds back to ensure reasonable power consumption and adequate heat dissipation can be achieved.



Baseless does not mean illogical.


So I guess you didn't see what I did there....


Your claims are backed up by as much logic as anyone else's... One could assume that the 58(9)70(x2) will have to be slower.. or they could assume that it will be hotter but double fine, just like the 4870x2.... Perhaps they could assume when ATI said "a dual GPU like you've never seen before" that they changed things.. (like allowing the memory to be shared, making the card treat itself as a single GPU.. and other fantastic things one can make up as easily as negative things.). All based on the same info (that being not much of anything..)

Also.. no one said the 5870 was memory starved...
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 11:04:19 PM

maybe its being called something different because its a monolithic dual gpu design?? lol, i wish... is that even possible? never heard anyone even touch on the topic.
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 11:10:03 PM

uncfan_2563 said:
maybe its being called something different because its a monolithic dual gpu design?? lol, i wish... is that even possible? never heard anyone even touch on the topic.


That was being thrown around a while ago, but there is no basis to believe that at this point. I've heard everything from "not fast enough to keep up with 5870 crossfire" to "fundamental design changes cause it to far surpass mere crossfire."

I think the naming convention is just marketing though, like it or not it really doesn't make a difference if they call it the 5870xxdoublesuperXT9000 as it is the same card in the end.
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 11:37:07 PM

There has been a few claims that the 5870 is memory starved, and that is why the 5850 is closer to it in benchmarks than the parts suggest should be.

I'm not sure I buy that, but it's worth holding off until we see more details.
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 11:52:30 PM

jennyh said:
There has been a few claims that the 5870 is memory starved, and that is why the 5850 is closer to it in benchmarks than the parts suggest should be.

I'm not sure I buy that, but it's worth holding off until we see more details.


Bandwidth starved perhaps, but not memory total. Fingers crossed that ATI has the "right" drivers when I bother to by one.. lol.
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 12:50:38 AM

Uh, the 4870X2 was a little faster than two 4870s in CrossFire. Why exactly would it be hard for them to do the same with the 5870? It's already smaller and more efficient. I guess people will think of anything, huh? ATi doesn't have problems with GPU size like NVidia does last time I checked...
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 12:53:30 AM

I think the 4870x2 was a little bit slower wasn't it? Nothing that actually mattered or was noticable though.

@daedalus - yep i meant bandwidth starved and not memory.
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 1:03:02 AM

brockh said:
Uh, the 4870X2 was a little faster than two 4870s in CrossFire. Why exactly would it be hard for them to do the same with the 5870? It's already smaller and more efficient. I guess people will think of anything, huh? ATi doesn't have problems with GPU size like NVidia does last time I checked...


Any benchmark I had seen showed the performance almost identical, it was 2 4870's in crossfire.

Also, while the 5870 uses far less power at idle, it uses more at load than a 4870 ever did. While I don't think this would be a huge issue to get past, there is a limit to how fast you can make the chips and still stay in the power envelope.

Additionally.. people need to understand jokes a wee bit better ;) 
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