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WOW 5870 DX 11 C 4 yourself

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October 27, 2009 5:13:14 AM

ati radeon hd 5870 DIRECTX 10 VS DIRECTX 11, see the differance for your self.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR40GwRtFyw

:pt1cable: 
:bounce: 

More about : wow 5870

October 27, 2009 6:18:05 AM

Nice vid, I like how fast DX11 adoption growths compared to DX10.
October 27, 2009 9:13:25 AM

its dam good direct x 11 will rule, go ati wooooooot
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October 27, 2009 10:51:33 AM

SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2009 11:14:22 AM

Pretty nice improvements in 3D rendering. Really makes the older DX9 and 10's 3D walls look child-like in comparison ;P (thinking back to the pasted-on 2D textures using parallax occlusion...how did I ever think that looked good??)

So it would seem that DX11 with tessellation enabled will perform worse than DX10...but DX11 without tessellation enabled will perform better than DX10. So since DX10 isn't even capable of utilizing tessellation at all...it's pretty safe to say DX11 will completely push 9 and 10 out the window when a few of these new games release. There go my worries that DX11 is just another DX10 failure ;)  Can't wait.
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 11:30:27 AM

Guys, according to Nvidia DX11 doesn't matter! ;-)

In all seriousness it will certainly matter to them once Fermi is out but I am already impressed. Now we need more games and devs on the bandwagon!
October 27, 2009 11:41:01 AM

That's just amazing. I've been waiting for that for a long time ;) .
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 3:28:48 PM

Eh, decent. Not shocked about the losses in performance though.

And I remind everyone, DX10 adoption was just as fast when it first came out. (CoH got patched, Crysis, etc). Lets see what happens in a few months, kay?
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 3:35:19 PM

Name 5 games that were patched within 8 months of DX10 release? No?
Look, theres too many DX10 games that can be patched easily, and too many coming thatll ve DX11 for that statement to hold any water
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2009 7:54:40 PM

^^ Within 8 months? That means around March 2008 then...I'll use January as my cutoff point, just for simplicities sake:

Bioshock
Call of Juarez
Company Of Heroes
Crysis
FSX
Gears of War
Hellgate London
Lost Planet
Shadowrun
Universe at War: Earth Assault
Unreal Tournament 3
World in Conflict

And thats not counting MMO's that got patched (EVE, D&D, etc)

Thats a dozen by the close of 2007, with another half dozen by mid May (the following 6 months). As I've said: DX10 adoption was quite high; higher then DX9.0 was anyway...I also note, only three of these (Shadowrun, Hellgate, and to a lesser extent, UiW) can be considered AAA titles. Frankly, the DX10 launch was far, far more impressive.

I also find it odd...how bad the benchmark looks when DX11 isn't turned on...thats a whole different debate though...

Call me in 18 months; We'll be around 30 or so titles by then, or about the same as DX10 was. If you continue to think companies will waste their time and money to patch legacy titles, simply because its EASY, leads me to think you're out of your mind, quite frankly. Time and money, its that simple.
October 27, 2009 8:03:22 PM

still dx11 looks way better than dx 10, than did dx 10 looked better than dx9 did
in fact i didnt even play 1 game in dx 10 at all, cause i saw s**t little diff and i play games all day. but i will play dx 11 games asap [:mousemonkey:4]


October 27, 2009 9:17:10 PM

gamerk316 said:
^^ Within 8 months? That means around March 2008 then...I'll use January as my cutoff point, just for simplicities sake:

Bioshock
Call of Juarez
Company Of Heroes
Crysis
FSX
Gears of War
Hellgate London
Lost Planet
Shadowrun
Universe at War: Earth Assault
Unreal Tournament 3
World in Conflict

And thats not counting MMO's that got patched (EVE, D&D, etc)

Thats a dozen by the close of 2007, with another half dozen by mid May (the following 6 months). As I've said: DX10 adoption was quite high; higher then DX9.0 was anyway...I also note, only three of these (Shadowrun, Hellgate, and to a lesser extent, UiW) can be considered AAA titles. Frankly, the DX10 launch was far, far more impressive.

I also find it odd...how bad the benchmark looks when DX11 isn't turned on...thats a whole different debate though...

Call me in 18 months; We'll be around 30 or so titles by then, or about the same as DX10 was. If you continue to think companies will waste their time and money to patch legacy titles, simply because its EASY, leads me to think you're out of your mind, quite frankly. Time and money, its that simple.



if it wasnt for the economy, i'm sure we would see similar numbers of games developed for the dx11 debut. I think the number of games developed for dx11 will pick up very fast when the masses become aware of just how much improvement it is over dx10.

Besides comparing improvement to DX11 to that of DX9 going to DX10 isnt fair. DX11 is what DX10 was supposed to be if it wasnt for technology feet draggers like Nvidia.
October 27, 2009 9:32:28 PM

gamerk316 said:
^^ Within 8 months? That means around March 2008 then...I'll use January as my cutoff point, just for simplicities sake:

Bioshock - 7 months later
Call of Juarez - patched in 5 months
Company Of Heroes - patched in 5 months (first DX10 game)
Crysis - 8 months later
FSX - 10 months
Gears of War - 10 months
Hellgate London - 10 months
Lost Planet - 5 months
Shadowrun - non DX10
Universe at War: Earth Assault - 11 months
Unreal Tournament 3 - 10 months
World in Conflict - 8 months
And thats not counting MMO's that got patched (EVE, D&D, etc) - Eve patched 10 months later


So its 6 games within 8 months, or 3 within half a year after Vista was launched.

gamerk316 said:


Thats a dozen by the close of 2007, with another half dozen by mid May (the following 6 months). As I've said: DX10 adoption was quite high; higher then DX9.0 was anyway...I also note, only three of these (Shadowrun, Hellgate, and to a lesser extent, UiW) can be considered AAA titles. Frankly, the DX10 launch was far, far more impressive.


Lets get it straight, there were two DX11 games BEFORE DX11 was even launched, and will be dozen or more within half a year, while DX10 had FIRST game 5 months AFTER Dx10 was released... And still "DX10 launch was far, far more impressive"? [:mousemonkey:5]
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 12:16:09 AM

For some reason, gamer dislikes DX11
I have a feeling DX11 will be important even to nVidia, after they have HW for it
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 12:39:11 AM

Tesselation is basically what solid 3d rendering was compared to old style vector graphics back in the 80's. So there is a performance hit - that doesn't matter when games are already running at 130fps.

Anyone who believes tesselation won't be standard is deluded. Nvidia might not have the capability but they know that they need to have it for their future. Any nvidia fan who isn't impressed needs to take a step back and look again.
October 28, 2009 2:39:45 AM

DirectX 11 is truly amazing and it will be adopted far quicker than DirectX 10, period.

As for nVidia, well they aren't doing great but I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Besides I really want a 5870 for $250! Lets go nVidia!

Just as a side note, the performance hit is similar to that of large scale AA, but tessellation tooks a LOT better. That is fine by me.
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 2:50:17 AM

Alot of devs are saying DX11 adoption will go much faster due to its ease and 2 OS to run it.
Also, having working DX11 drivers that work is nice too, something nVidia failed to do with DX10, and of course DX10.1, ooops, no, that was their HW, they didnt have any
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 3:32:20 AM

gamerk316 said:

And I remind everyone, DX10 adoption was just as fast when it first came out. (CoH got patched, Crysis, etc). Lets see what happens in a few months, kay?


No, not ok! :non: 

You and all your anti-DX11 anti-Vista BS don't get to say 'wait'.

And no, DX10 was not 'just as fast', DX11 games came out before the hardware and OS were officially launched, which is not the case for DX10. As I mentioned before adoption of even the 'tack-on' games will be much faster than before, and won't be delayed by XP laggars contrary to what you preached; along with so many other things you got wrong. :heink: 

BTW, and to even further 'prove you wrong', Futuremark is going to release their game sans XP support, just DX10+ and Vista+, so for you who didn't preach " Let's See.. " before, you don't get to try and fall back on that now as a cop-out! [:thegreatgrapeape:6]
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 3:54:48 AM

gamerk316 said:
^^ Within 8 months? That means around March 2008 then...I'll use January as my cutoff point, just for simplicities sake:


January would make it 12 months, March would be 14 months !!
DX10 Launched with Vista on January 30, 2007 dude !!

I still can't figure out if you intentionally lie, or are just that ignorant of the facts. :heink: 

Perhaps, you're confusing the launch of the R600 with the launch of DX10, which once again I'd forgive someone else, but there's an obvious motivation behind your 'errors'. :pfff: 
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 4:08:25 AM

Possibly a certain focus group gamer?
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 4:13:58 AM

Yeah I get that suspicion, especially with his focus on a specific release date in 'error'. [:thegreatgrapeape:5]
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 11:26:47 AM

Quote:
Alot of devs are saying DX11 adoption will go much faster due to its ease and 2 OS to run it.
Also, having working DX11 drivers that work is nice too, something nVidia failed to do with DX10, and of course DX10.1, ooops, no, that was their HW, they didnt have any


And yet, XP still has the largest user base.

Quote:
BTW, and to even further 'prove you wrong', Futuremark is going to release their game sans XP support, just DX10+ and Vista+, so for you who didn't preach " Let's See.. " before, you don't get to try and fall back on that now as a cop-out!


ACtually, there's already a few DX10 only games. All have crashed and burned sales wise though. I could just as easily point out that MW:2 lacks any advanced DX support as a counter argument.

And I would appriciate it if some of you would stop putting words in my mouth. My stance for the past year has been:
1: 4000 series and earlier hardware could not run DX11. [Correct] (Sorry Jaydee, I won this one)
2: Games would not be patched to DX11 after the fact [jury still out]
3: DX11 adoption would be about as quick as DX10 was (XP Factor, lack of HW) over the first year or so [jury out; only a dozen or so games announced so far, which puts it at about the same adoption of DX10]
4: Tesselation would likely have a noticable performance impact [Correct]

So right now, I'm 2 for 4.

As for the release date, you try connecting to Tom's and Wikipedia at 5kb/sec I get here at work [gotta love company screening policy], while trying to get out by 5 EST; I didn't know when Vista came out, Wikipedia wouldn't open, so I guestimated late spring. So yeah, I goofed badly on that front.

So its a little over a dozen games by the end of the first year, which is about what I predict for DX11 (probably closer to 18 or so). I still expect DX10 titles due to hardware avaliability, something most everyone else here is discounting (But its easy! :D ).
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 12:09:00 PM

Pretty cool. The DX11 looks nice, though I've seen DX9 that looks better than that DX10. They probably weakened the DX10 for even more effect, but DX11 looks great regardless.
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 1:28:16 PM

gamerk316 said:

And yet, XP still has the largest user base.


And falling fast, even Vlave noted this as a result of their last survey.

Quote:

ACtually, there's already a few DX10 only games. All have crashed and burned sales wise though. I could just as easily point out that MW:2 lacks any advanced DX support as a counter argument.


What DX10-only games (we're talking about from a gaming house, not tiny producers, which was your issue then as well), because in fact you said there wouldn't be any, there have already been VISTA-only, but they weren't DX10 only.

Quote:
And I would appriciate it if some of you would stop putting words in my mouth.


Not putting words in your mouth, actually emember what you said, which you apparently don't. You do realize we can post to them

Quote:
My stance for the past year has been:
1: 4000 series and earlier hardware could not run DX11. [Correct] (Sorry Jaydee, I won this one)


NO that was not your original statement, just your revised one afterwards which is also wrong, you originally said it wouldn't run on down hardware to which I replied with the link (and nice picture for you) to M$' own statements a few short weeks earlier that SPECIFICALLY addressed that issue. As for your fight with JDJ that happened during my summer hiatus when I wasn't here to counter your BS!. In fact D3D 11 release WILL have features that are specific additions to DX19 and even DX9 hardware, that too was already extensively explained by M$, the biggest feature to go throughout the line will be greater multi-thread support. Even your statement above is just wrong since DX11 will run on the 4000 series, you will just not get anything that requires DX11 hardware, but it will still run DX11 as it is a complete superset.

Quote:
2: Games would not be patched to DX11 after the fact [jury still out]


Games have already been patched after the fact , so the jury's verdict is already in.
http://forums.battleforge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24...

Plus LOTR and D&D.

Quote:
3: DX11 adoption would be about as quick as DX10 was (XP Factor, lack of HW) over the first year or so [jury out; only a dozen or so games announced so far, which puts it at about the same adoption of DX10]


As it related to the model, we already know adoption is far ahead of DX10 with games before the official launch, and multiple games available at launch (DX10 only had a few demos, many of the G80 ones were believed to be DX10 but were OGL wrappers).

Quote:
4: Tesselation would likely have a noticable performance impact [Correct]


Actually it's not that simple, you also criticized ATi for having a non-DX11 tessellator in the previous generations, which is funny since it looks like nV will have no DX11 tessellator, and doing it in general shaders will be even slower.

Quote:
As for the release date, you try connecting to Tom's and Wikipedia at 5kb/sec I get here at work...


Dude, then don't hit 'reply' until you checked. If this would reduce your errors that would be worth it. You post that stuff and then people think you know what you're talking about and even if you were 2/3 instead of really 1/4, that would still mean you're still putting out too many errors for these discussions, which become references for people.

Seriously dude, you're on an anti-DX11 campaign, at least make the effort to research your points, especially if they're right there on something as easy as Wiki which is far from even being a 'good' source. :pfff: 
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 7:41:33 PM

Quote:
My stance for the past year has been:
1: 4000 series and earlier hardware could not run DX11. [Correct] (Sorry Jaydee, I won this one)


Quote:
NO that was not your original statement, just your revised one afterwards which is also wrong, you originally said it wouldn't run on down hardware to which I replied with the link (and nice picture for you) to M$' own statements a few short weeks earlier that SPECIFICALLY addressed that issue. As for your fight with JDJ that happened during my summer hiatus when I wasn't here to counter your BS!. In fact D3D 11 release WILL have features that are specific additions to DX19 and even DX9 hardware, that too was already extensively explained by M$, the biggest feature to go throughout the line will be greater multi-thread support. Even your statement above is just wrong since DX11 will run on the 4000 series, you will just not get anything that requires DX11 hardware, but it will still run DX11 as it is a complete superset.


Not quite. Almost, but not quite, due in part to M$ own driver model. Essentially, M$ has dictated, since Vista, that you either support the entire API, or you don't get certified drivers (I also suspect NVIDIA used this to force M$ to drop tesselation from DX10, as no certified NVIDIA drivers would have hurt M$ big time; just my gut feeling though...).

What M$ is allowing in this case is the expansion of the previous 2 API's to encompass some of the software enhancements of DX11. As far as down hardware such as the 4000 series, DX11 would equate to DX10.2 in my book. Now, maybe we're arguing semantics, but I don't view tacking on software functionallity as "running" DX11.

Quote:
2: Games would not be patched to DX11 after the fact [jury still out]


Quote:
Games have already been patched after the fact , so the jury's verdict is already in.
http://forums.battleforge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24...


Was referring to JayDees belief that every dev will take the time to update its games because its easy. If we have 5 games patched, I'll be shocked.

Quote:

Plus LOTR and D&D.


MMO's have such long lifespans and support, you can't use them in this case. Of course MMO's get patched to new standards, even I won't argue against that.

Oh, you forgot EVE :D 

Quote:
3: DX11 adoption would be about as quick as DX10 was (XP Factor, lack of HW) over the first year or so [jury out; only a dozen or so games announced so far, which puts it at about the same adoption of DX10]


Quote:

As it related to the model, we already know adoption is far ahead of DX10 with games before the official launch, and multiple games available at launch (DX10 only had a few demos, many of the G80 ones were believed to be DX10 but were OGL wrappers).


Call me in 12 months and we'll look at the results. XP is still around and doing well, theres still a shortage of DX11 hardware (especially compared to DX10), so DX10 will still be quite popular due to its user base compared to 11. Throw in the "DX11 enhancements" (see point 1) on down hardware, and I see fewer devs going the DX11 route then the rest of you do. I'd guess 12-14 games with DX11 support.

Quote:
4: Tesselation would likely have a noticable performance impact [Correct]

Quote:

Actually it's not that simple, you also criticized ATi for having a non-DX11 tessellator in the previous generations, which is funny since it looks like nV will have no DX11 tessellator, and doing it in general shaders will be even slower.


And did I ever say anything about NVIDIA in this circumstance? First off, making any assumptions about G300 is foolish at this point. Secondly, I never said that a shader approach would be better, and third, I never criticised ATI for not have a DX11 capable tesselator on its DX10 cards, I mearly pointed out to others that it would not be capable of running DX11 tesselation, especially when SOME PEOPLE WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS started to claim the 4000 series could handle DX11 tesselation, and recommend others buy those cards based on that faulty reasoning...

I'm not anti DX11, I just don't see it taking off nearly as fast as the rest of you do, and frankly, I think some people are continuing to overvalue some features, especially the new multithreaded engine.
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2009 10:44:33 PM

"MMO's have such long lifespans and support, you can't use them in this case. Of course MMO's get patched to new standards, even I won't argue against that. "
Too late, when you included it in your argument prior to this, just look ^

Now, dont be putting words in my mouth. I dont like recommending cards period, so its either someone else youre talking about, or, youre dead wrong.I will talk about a cards perf, maybe its dominance over its competitors, and if it makes snse, but you wont find me in many, if hardly any "please reccomend me a card" threads.
And again, dont be putting words in my mouth about me saying every dev would be converting DX10 to DX11.
Some will, some wont, but I have a feeling you will be presently surprised after all, and do delayed games count as well?
My problem with your POV is, is dying quickly, and me pointing out this fact, with others, other devs, game houses etc is easy to see.
Name all the reasons why DX11 wont be adopted faster than DX10?
I'll name 2 more to yoyur 1 reasons why it will, and every day that passes, Im just that much closer, why the DX9/xp path dies.
Ive been a proponent of all new DX models, and I always will, and if that is to be read as unrealistic by some, you simply cant compare DX9 as the normal, nor the transition to DX10 either.
DX11 has neither of these problems. DX9 is old, older than any DX proir, as far as use goes, and its ready to die out. DX10 faced the longest most successful DX model in DX9, while being introduced on a unaccepted OS, which also made it exclusive.
Well, exclusive or not, it did sell, and now we have another new OS out, decent pricing, quicker than ever a complete line up of market of cards for DX11 than has ever come before, and again, DX9/xp dies with each purchase.
Id point out as well, each console has tid bits of DX10 capability, so thats just another chink in DX9s armor.
No, I havnt seen you say alot positive or hopeful towards ATI, nor DX11.
As for it costing more for TS, like Ive said before, if you want the same as we have now, TS will/can make it faster, but, using a decent amount of TS for eye candy improvements, which is called progress, which Im a half full guy, where I see you as more of a half empty one, and this progress needs to move forwards, as DX11 has it all over DX10 , and time will prove this out, and its very worthy, much like other DX models in the past
October 28, 2009 11:20:29 PM

Well this sucks, the thread has degrated into a flame war and 2 of the offenders are moderators...

Either way I think gamer has a point in that it will still be awhile before we see full tessellation and full blown directX 11 in games, but I can't wait to get my hands on it. Still, DirectX 11 will be a far greater success than DirectX 10, but it will still take awhile to really impact the market.
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2009 1:24:10 AM

If you mean every game having TS, then yes, it will be awhile.
4 months from now, we should have a few working decent examples of TS. Id also like anyone to point out my "flames", as the only thing I can think of was a question, and appropriate as well.
I dont like to be flamed nor flame, unless its high time for it, which isnt the case here.
Theres conitnual claims of things that arent quite hitting the mark, you make a point, after awhile, its many points, and after that, you begin to wonder.
If you think Ape and I are wrong, thats fine, but consider whats been written here in its entirity, including links,times, and claims
October 29, 2009 1:41:16 AM

No I mostly agree with you, but the "discussion" has gotten rather "heated" if you catch my meaning. Either way I just kind of wish there was more of a discussion about the possibilities shown by the video, the thread's original purpose.

I do think that the DX 10 in the demo is kind of poorly done to begin with, DX 11 doesn't add dimensions to textures, that could be done with DX 10. That said the textures really do look much better and they show off what you can do with DX 11 without killing performance. A lot of people keep pointing to the performance hit with tessellation, but they fail to consider the performance hit if the developers designed something half that complex with "traditional" methods, it would be a slide show.
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2009 1:42:20 AM

The_Blood_Raven said:
Well this sucks, the thread has degrated into a flame war and 2 of the offenders are moderators...

Either way I think gamer has a point in that it will still be awhile before we see full tessellation and full blown directX 11 in games, but I can't wait to get my hands on it. Still, DirectX 11 will be a far greater success than DirectX 10, but it will still take awhile to really impact the market.



Maybe we newbies should join in on the brawl. =P
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2009 1:51:49 AM

Well, I pointed out a few things, and this does need to be done.

If you think about the DX10 level, adding more to it would have a higher impact as well, and those DX10 numbers would be lower as well.
Im sure they did this to show how much you can do with whats already there, and some of the DX11 was overkill, tho that too can easily be tuned down, which again, would ease usage somewhat, but again, wouldnt be as a dramatic difference tho
October 31, 2009 12:38:40 AM

:>)
a b U Graphics card
October 31, 2009 1:34:01 AM

The_Blood_Raven said:
Well this sucks, the thread has degrated into a flame war and 2 of the offenders are moderators....


mods are only human :non: 
!