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Would this crap CPU bottleneck this much more advanced GPU?

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January 2, 2010 7:56:14 AM

I have an Intel e2180, with an ATI Radeon HD 4670 1GB graphics card.

Here are my other specs:
2 GB DDR2 RAM
450W Xion PSU
an old 945GC-M7 TE Biostar motherboard
139GB IDE HardDrive

So, is my CPU bottlenecking my Graphics Card?
I can barely run something without bad fps.

Would upgrading to a better motherboard and an AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE 3.2 Ghz CPU be better for fps?
(and also an extra 2GB of DDR2 ram?) :) 

I need answers please!
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January 2, 2010 8:11:24 AM

Adding RAM will help

But before buying PII Overclock your E2180.
Your CPU is evenly matched with your GPU.
PII will be bottlenecked by HD 4670.

Whenever You upgrade, just make a full system upgrade.Cuz IDE Drive and PSU needs to be replaced too.

4GB ram is needed for gaming these days.
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January 2, 2010 8:16:42 AM

Another 2GB of RAM might be your best upgrade.. what do you run on this machine?

I don't think the E2180 is going to bottleneck a 4670.
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January 2, 2010 8:37:27 AM

What games are you playing and on what resolution? This is very important.
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January 2, 2010 9:11:58 AM

I agree with the two comments above mine. 2180 and 4670 is fine. As long as your not at to high a res things should be working just fine.
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January 2, 2010 1:02:07 PM

As stridervm said, your resolution is important. My own games are mostly older, and run well on a 4670 at 1440x900, but it will slow down if I try to use my 1680x1050 monitor with it. I also turn AA off; that will also make a difference.
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January 2, 2010 3:51:36 PM

Even a Pentium4 wouldn't bottleneck a 4670 significantly.

PentiumD's would reduce the bottleneck to very little.

So your early Core2Duo/PentiumDual, which is better than the cards above, would be totally fine.
January 4, 2010 4:24:27 AM

shubham1401 said:
Adding RAM will help

But before buying PII Overclock your E2180.
Your CPU is evenly matched with your GPU.
PII will be bottlenecked by HD 4670.

Whenever You upgrade, just make a full system upgrade.Cuz IDE Drive and PSU needs to be replaced too.

4GB ram is needed for gaming these days.


I upgraded to these specs:
AMD Phenom II X4 955 BE @ 3.2Ghz (from E2180 [which did actually bottleneck me])
3 GB DDR2 667 Mhz RAM (from 2GB DDR2)
PSU 450W (still the same)
ATI Radeon HD 4670 1GB 750Mhz, 1.6Ghz Video Card (still the same, was bottlenecked actually)
Windows 7 Build *7600*? (from Windows XP SP3)

And now my computer runs FAAAST, and my graphics card works at its maximum potential!
With a more faster CPU, my GPU can access and process graphics much faster and smoother.

So you guys sorta gave me the wrong answer :(  e2180 can't do much for modern games.
Cause I mean take a look at the youtube videos with my same graphics card hd 4670.
The performances are good, and the CPUs they were using were much more better than an E2180.

With the E2180 I could barely run COD 4 without it being super slow.
I am much happier with my new specs for my computer now! :) 

P.S (shubham1401) I didn't need to upgrade my IDE Drive or my PSU..
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January 4, 2010 4:49:15 AM

Running COD4 doesn't require a lot of CPU power.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-gpu-upgrade,192...

Scroll down to the 9600GT OC; the non-OCed 9600GT is a full tier above the 4670.
Going from a dual core E2160@stock 1.8GHz to a quad core Q6600 overclocked to 3.2GHz yielded a 36% increase in fps.

Taking into consideration a non-OCed 4670, your fps increase would've probably been around 20% or less.

Also take a look at the 9800GTX, which is roughly four tiers above your 4670. The difference between a E2160@stock 1.8GHz and a Q6600 OCed to 3.2GHz is 43%, while the OCed E2160 difference is 23% difference.

If you just wanted to increase your framerates, you would've gotten a larger fps boost by upgrading your GPU and OCing your CPU.

But since you upgraded your main components, I guess that future proofs you for a much better GPU in the future...
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January 4, 2010 10:31:48 AM

Shubham suggested you upgrade your PSU because the one you have is fecal. XION is not much above a generic; labeled for 450W, yours is probably good for 375W at most. Fortunately, your system probably uses <300W loaded. When you do decide to replace it, find one with full range active PFC (no little voltage switch) that is 80+ certified. Antec, Corsair, PC Power & Cooling, Seasonic, and Enermax are among the better brands.
You would also have seen a performance increase if you had overclocked your original processor. The answers you were given might have saved you some money, however as only a moderate overclocker myself I can understand if you were not comfortable with doing so. We also don't know enough about your original system; if it was a storebought PC, its BIOS would have been locked, making overclocking very difficult. I don't think it's fair to assume you were given wrong answers.
January 5, 2010 4:41:10 AM

Onus said:
Shubham suggested you upgrade your PSU because the one you have is fecal. XION is not much above a generic; labeled for 450W, yours is probably good for 375W at most. Fortunately, your system probably uses <300W loaded. When you do decide to replace it, find one with full range active PFC (no little voltage switch) that is 80+ certified. Antec, Corsair, PC Power & Cooling, Seasonic, and Enermax are among the better brands.
You would also have seen a performance increase if you had overclocked your original processor. The answers you were given might have saved you some money, however as only a moderate overclocker myself I can understand if you were not comfortable with doing so. We also don't know enough about your original system; if it was a storebought PC, its BIOS would have been locked, making overclocking very difficult. I don't think it's fair to assume you were given wrong answers.


Yes sorry about that, overclocking my original processor was impossible (only through the software it was possible). My BIOS was locked. Although I do feel better with buying a new processor and motherboard as I am more free to do the things I need. I now have an Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition, which is unlocked and more easier to overclock. Sorry I assumed the answered that were given to me were wrong, they were just not thorough enough for me to understand. As are most of the answers I get. Like: Telling me "[my] video card sucks and should get the much more expensive hd 5750" . It seems perfectly fine for me now that I have a good processor, as I am running on a perfectly fine 1280x1024 resolution and see no need for an 1440x990 or higher res.

By the way, for some reason I can't seem to find PSU's with the fan/vent of the PowerSupply being on the bottom or on the back. I always find them with it being on the top. My case is incompatible with them.
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January 5, 2010 9:12:18 AM

If it is located on the top of your case, the PSU mounts with the fan facing down. You can operate a PSU at any orientation, as long as it is getting airflow; if it mounts at the bottom of your case, you would turn it so the fan faces up.
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January 5, 2010 1:35:56 PM

arcticking said:
Yes sorry about that, overclocking my original processor was impossible (only through the software it was possible). My BIOS was locked. Although I do feel better with buying a new processor and motherboard as I am more free to do the things I need. I now have an Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition, which is unlocked and more easier to overclock. Sorry I assumed the answered that were given to me were wrong, they were just not thorough enough for me to understand. As are most of the answers I get. Like: Telling me "[my] video card sucks and should get the much more expensive hd 5750" . It seems perfectly fine for me now that I have a good processor, as I am running on a perfectly fine 1280x1024 resolution and see no need for an 1440x990 or higher res.

By the way, for some reason I can't seem to find PSU's with the fan/vent of the PowerSupply being on the bottom or on the back. I always find them with it being on the top. My case is incompatible with them.

You can’t say that the increase was only due to the new cpu. You did increase the ram as well as install windows 7. If you would have reinstalled windows xp on your old system you would have seen a difference because it is a clean install. With knowing that your old board was locked and that this upgrade made you happy means that you did the right thing. You also can post the upgrades that you are thinking of and people will give you input on what is the best bang for the buck and suggest reliable components.

The is also something small that I really need to bring up “more easier”…..
More and er are mutually exclusive meaning that when er fits you don’t use more. Sorry for the English lesson, but little things add up to make you better spoken.

Hope you continue to enjoy your upgraded pc
January 5, 2010 10:34:14 PM

Onus said:
If it is located on the top of your case, the PSU mounts with the fan facing down. You can operate a PSU at any orientation, as long as it is getting airflow; if it mounts at the bottom of your case, you would turn it so the fan faces up.


Thank you for that! Now I don't have to worry about what side the fan is facing :D 

Pro Llama said:
You can’t say that the increase was only due to the new cpu. You did increase the ram as well as install windows 7. If you would have reinstalled windows xp on your old system you would have seen a difference because it is a clean install. With knowing that your old board was locked and that this upgrade made you happy means that you did the right thing. You also can post the upgrades that you are thinking of and people will give you input on what is the best bang for the buck and suggest reliable components.

The is also something small that I really need to bring up “more easier”…..
More and er are mutually exclusive meaning that when er fits you don’t use more. Sorry for the English lesson, but little things add up to make you better spoken.

Hope you continue to enjoy your upgraded pc


Thanks again Pro Llama. I forgot to say that yes I did actually reinstall Windows XP fresh but it was still slow in gaming performance.
Now I am looking to upgrade my PC with these items.

2 - 4 GB RAM (Kingston KVR800D2N6 2GB 1x2 ) or (Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB 2X2GB Dual Channel)
A new video card (most likely the Powercolor Radeon HD 5750 1GB)
and a new PSU (750W Enlight (Delta manufactured I was told) or Coolermaster 600W)

The PSU i'm sure I might need if I am going to overclock the Phenom II X4 955 BE, and for the extra RAM and new video card I might install into my PC.

So what would be a good idea for me to buy? Any suggestions?
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January 5, 2010 10:42:25 PM

When you choose a new PSU, find one with full range active PFC (no little voltage switch) and 80+ certification (or better). For one HD5750, the minimum you want is 450W (although an Earthwatts 430 would also be enough). To allow some headroom, I would suggest 500W-550W. Antec, Corsair, PC Power & Cooling, Seasonic, and Enermax are among the better brands.
January 5, 2010 11:11:43 PM

Onus said:
When you choose a new PSU, find one with full range active PFC (no little voltage switch) and 80+ certification (or better). For one HD5750, the minimum you want is 450W (although an Earthwatts 430 would also be enough). To allow some headroom, I would suggest 500W-550W. Antec, Corsair, PC Power & Cooling, Seasonic, and Enermax are among the better brands.


Ok, thanks. I'll consider getting a 500-550W PSU, with those specifications :)  Thanks for the suggestion! I just saved myself a lot of money because of that!
January 6, 2010 1:28:57 AM

If you intend on playing any newer Source based games then yes the E2180 will hold you wayyyyyyyyy back.

My E2220@3.1GHz can still get less than 30fps on a 32man tf2 server or Left 4 Dead1/2.

Card is an 8800GS and no matter what video settings fps bellow 30 is guaranteed at some point.
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January 6, 2010 5:29:53 AM

Its odd you say that Proto. I have an E6600 at stock settings (a crime from what I've been told.) which is 2.4GHz. I also have an 8800GS, and have no problems playing on 32man TF2 servers. I play at 1680x1050. Do you play higher? My frames are fine. Lowest I've seen them is in the mid 40s. I know I have 4x the amount of L2 cache, but you have an extra 700MHz.
January 6, 2010 5:48:51 AM

4745454b said:
Its odd you say that Proto. I have an E6600 at stock settings (a crime from what I've been told.) which is 2.4GHz. I also have an 8800GS, and have no problems playing on 32man TF2 servers. I play at 1680x1050. Do you play higher? My frames are fine. Lowest I've seen them is in the mid 40s. I know I have 4x the amount of L2 cache, but you have an extra 700MHz.



TBH drops bellow 30 are very infrequent at this speed, however my average during hectic fights is the mid 30's and 40's when not much is going on and higher if absolutly nothing is happening.

My res is 1600X900.

My friend has an E8400 and an 9600GT and he spends most of his hectic battles in the 40's although i've seen it in the 30's as well if there is a cluster f*ck.

I've noticed a great deal of arguing over frames in the steam forums and framerates are very inconsistent among users who have similar hardware to each other, some users with P4's say they can run it fine never dropping bellow 30 while others say they spend most of their time bellow 20fps with nearly identical systems. Valve seems to have some programming quircks to iron out.
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January 6, 2010 6:01:00 AM

I often play Valve Source mods. In a zombie-master source mod, there is a level that has a giant meat grinder "tunnel" that a player must pass through.

In my home comp with an E5300 and a 4830, I usually average about 80+fps. As soon as I get to the meat grinder tunnel, my fps drops to 15-20ish.
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January 6, 2010 6:28:05 AM

Odd, I've never looked into this. I wonder if source likes L2 cache, as my chip has lots more then either of yours. (I'm assuming we are all at 4GBs of ram here?) While I normally play on 22/24 man servers, I've played on 32/33 man servers before with no issues either. And for me I've maxed all the settings except for AA, which is at 2. Even the FOV was pushed to 90 degrees. I wonder what the answer is, has any been suggested?
January 6, 2010 6:35:16 AM

Bluescreendeath said:
I often play Valve Source mods. In a zombie-master source mod, there is a level that has a giant meat grinder "tunnel" that a player must pass through.

In my home comp with an E5300 and a 4830, I usually average about 80+fps. As soon as I get to the meat grinder tunnel, my fps drops to 15-20ish.



Reminds me of playing "deathrun" or something like that on CS:S basically it's where you try to make it to the end and one player controls traps and no matter what if the traps involve explosions everybody says gets terrible framerates until the smoke clears.

Or on the zombie mod, if you plant trip mines and are looking near the explosion your fps will go to like 12 until the smoke clears.
January 6, 2010 6:37:55 AM

4745454b said:
Odd, I've never looked into this. I wonder if source likes L2 cache, as my chip has lots more then either of yours. (I'm assuming we are all at 4GBs of ram here?) While I normally play on 22/24 man servers, I've played on 32/33 man servers before with no issues either. And for me I've maxed all the settings except for AA, which is at 2. Even the FOV was pushed to 90 degrees. I wonder what the answer is, has any been suggested?



idk whats up, the e8400 system that my friend has gets lower fps than you! And thats a 6mb cache, 1333fsb, 3ghz stock monster dual core.

My E8200 I ordered should be here in a few days so hopefully i'll get some better fps.
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January 6, 2010 12:45:41 PM

arcticking said:
Ok, thanks. I'll consider getting a 500-550W PSU, with those specifications :)  Thanks for the suggestion! I just saved myself a lot of money because of that!


If you are considering crossfire as a future up grade I would suggest going with something in the range of 650w – 850w. If you are not the 500w - 550w is fine.

As far as your ram selection I would go with the Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB 2X2GB Dual Channel kit if they are both at the same speed or there is only a slight difference.
January 8, 2010 5:53:19 AM

Pro Llama said:
If you are considering crossfire as a future up grade I would suggest going with something in the range of 650w – 850w. If you are not the 500w - 550w is fine.

As far as your ram selection I would go with the Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB 2X2GB Dual Channel kit if they are both at the same speed or there is only a slight difference.


Hi, yeah I am not going to use crossfire, so im going for the 550W BFG PSU, and also would this High Performance be fine?
(Kingston HyperX KHX6400D2LL/2G 2GB 1X2GB PC2-6400 DDR2-800 CL4-4-4-12 240PIN DIMM Memory)

It is 2GB, and I already have 3GB of RAM installed in my mobo.
1x1GB Crucial @ 667
1x2GB Kingston @ 667
&
Now the High Performance HyperX Kingston @ 800

^ Would the above be fine, for a total of 5GB?

Between these two which is better?
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=41951&vpn=KHX640...
&&
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

I have 4 slots.
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January 11, 2010 12:48:43 PM

arcticking said:
Hi, yeah I am not going to use crossfire, so im going for the 550W BFG PSU, and also would this High Performance be fine?
(Kingston HyperX KHX6400D2LL/2G 2GB 1X2GB PC2-6400 DDR2-800 CL4-4-4-12 240PIN DIMM Memory)

It is 2GB, and I already have 3GB of RAM installed in my mobo.
1x1GB Crucial @ 667
1x2GB Kingston @ 667
&
Now the High Performance HyperX Kingston @ 800

^ Would the above be fine, for a total of 5GB?

Between these two which is better?
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=41951&vpn=KHX640...
&&
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

I have 4 slots.


I personally don’t like Mushkin ram. The Mushkin is a little faster than the Kingston but considering you are keeping your old ram it will not make a difference. Your ram will only be as fast as its slowest stick, so with either one it will run at 667. I almost forgot, yes the above set-up would yield 5gb of ram.

If you have the money I would go with a dual channel 4gb kit DDR2-800 or above and take out the other sticks. This would make your lowest stick 800 or above and because it is dual channel it would be faster.
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January 11, 2010 1:31:13 PM

Mushkin is excellent RAM. I've used a lot of it, and other than one DOA stick, never had problems with any of it.
January 12, 2010 11:43:29 PM

Pro Llama said:
I personally don’t like Mushkin ram. The Mushkin is a little faster than the Kingston but considering you are keeping your old ram it will not make a difference. Your ram will only be as fast as its slowest stick, so with either one it will run at 667. I almost forgot, yes the above set-up would yield 5gb of ram.

If you have the money I would go with a dual channel 4gb kit DDR2-800 or above and take out the other sticks. This would make your lowest stick 800 or above and because it is dual channel it would be faster.


Planning on getting this pair of OCz Gold 4GB with Dual Channeling:
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23482&vpn=OCZ2G8...

Hopefully they are good! :)  I've got a gigabyte board so I'm not trusting myself with 1066's.
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January 13, 2010 12:01:32 AM

i suprised u said u had problems with the 4670 and your e 2180 i had the same gfx card in a pentium D940 system now i did have it over clocked to 4 GHZ but i was getting in the upper 30s to mid 40s fps in call of duty
January 13, 2010 4:15:58 AM

saaiello said:
i suprised u said u had problems with the 4670 and your e 2180 i had the same gfx card in a pentium D940 system now i did have it over clocked to 4 GHZ but i was getting in the upper 30s to mid 40s fps in call of duty


Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare?
It's alright bro, im glad I made the choice to buy the 955. I am soo happy with it and how it runs multi-core games like Supreme Commander.. Its going to be very useful in the future with games and more intense graphics cards I use with it :D 
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January 13, 2010 7:15:28 AM

arcticking,
So it seems that after you finish, you would have more than just upgraded but instead have almost replaced all your parts to the point that you can reassemble your old e2180/4670 PC again... A good item for donation to the needy... :) 
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January 13, 2010 12:54:31 PM

arcticking said:
Planning on getting this pair of OCz Gold 4GB with Dual Channeling:
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23482&vpn=OCZ2G8...

Hopefully they are good! :)  I've got a gigabyte board so I'm not trusting myself with 1066's.


That looks like a good kit. Before you buy it go to gigabyte’s website and look up what ram has already been tested with your board. The ram will most likely be fine but it is always better to be sure then chance having to send it back. If you do just buy it and end up having issues, you can try setting the ram settings manually before you send it back.
January 19, 2010 10:23:38 PM

Pro Llama said:
That looks like a good kit. Before you buy it go to gigabyte’s website and look up what ram has already been tested with your board. The ram will most likely be fine but it is always better to be sure then chance having to send it back. If you do just buy it and end up having issues, you can try setting the ram settings manually before you send it back.


Ok sweet, I took you're advice :) 
!