HELP! Hurry! Media PC for Church. First Build

[ingodwestream]

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: Within next 4-7 Days

BUDGET RANGE: $750-1,200

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT:
*Easyworship
http://www.easyworship.com/easyworship/techspecs/#SystemRequirements
and/or
*Mediashout
http://www.mediashout.com/products/mediashout
*Wirecast
http://www.telestream.net/wire-cast/overview.htm
*HD Video Capture (near future)
*internet
*etc.

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: 2nd Monitor (19" LCD)

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Newegg.com , Amazon, etc.

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: United States

PARTS PREFERENCES: Core i7, Nvidia cards, Blackmagic Intensity Pro HDMI capture cards, Win7 or XP (Wirecast has had some issues with Vista 32 and even more with Vista 64...i havent used it in months so I am unsure which way to go with Windows OS) Open for suggestions for any listed.

OVERCLOCKING: No (but would like the future option of small OC)

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Help here, output displays will be 2-LCD monitors in media room (1 for system, 1 for output monitor) and two LG 55" 1080P HDTVs in the main part of church.

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1920x1080 (main room) 1024x768 (media room)

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: Well, I have been given the task of proposing and building the House of Worship's (HoW) media PC to handle the new HD screens and software. While this is my first complete build, I have a little experience having installed RAM and Video cards in a Dell Vostros 200 and laptop RAM. I have been planning to build one for myself next year, but this will possibly have to be my first. As mentioned before... we will be using up to HD source files and Live HD video cameras in the future. Big concern is supply smooth video (text over motion backgrounds, transitions) to 2 1080P HDTVs. Looking to future-proof for next 2 years at least. so expansion slots are paramount. For instance, Wirecast likes each camera on its own firewire buss. Unsure if we will go firewire or hdmi input capture, but as I said...that is for a future upgrade in the near future that we want to easily implement. Thats all I can think of now. This is an ASAP project build, so I will be monitoring this thread feverishly over the next few days. I have been a long time reader of TH's news and review section. So as soon as I got off the the call I immediately knew I should come to TH forum for some solid, noteworthy advice. Thanks in advance for all your suggestions, opinions, and help

PS. Oh! Before I forget, since this is my first build I would like to purchase from manufacturers that have a good, decent tech support in case I get into a little trouble. I'm very tech savvy and always read instruction manuals, so I dont think it will be a problem, just in case. Thanks again!

InGodWeStream

 

[ingodwestream]

In hindsight, the budget is flexible. Suggesting a lowend (under $1,000) and highend (over $1,000- 1,500)

 

[ingodwestream]

Anyone? Is it something I said or didnt say?

 

[WR2]

You're budget looks very good I think.
As a starting point - check out this suggested system over at TechReport The Sweeter Spot -Indulgence without excess
We can tweak that quite a bit to strip some of the gaming items out of the mix.

 

[ohiou_grad_06]

We did this in our church.

Easy Worship is an awesome program, very intuitive, very easy to use. You want something decently quick, I mean it does not have to be a monster, we were running an old single core Socket A Athlon 1800+ and 512 mb of ram, it ran fine.

I would say maybe check out the new Athlon x4 620 and grab 4 gb of ram.


For a budget option, check this out.

Athlon 2 x4 620 and biostar board for 144ish.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.271179


Crucial memory 4 gb--80 bucks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148160

4670 for 70 bucks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125277

WD HD for 57

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

Lite On DVD burner for 30

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289

400 watt Corsair Power Supply for 50

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008

Windows 7 Home Premium for 110

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754

So far 541 for just the tower, and I'm guessing this may be almost too much horsepower, we ran easy worship on the system above using an old fx5200 with dual outputs.

Do some more research, but you can use something like this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817422011&cm_re=video_splitter_vga-_-17-422-011-_-Product


What you do is you will run one monitor as your primary display you look at. Then you run a secondary monitor, but you take the secondary display, go into the in port on that box or one similar, then you have 4 outputs from that box. So you could use up to 4 other monitors. Also, a recommendation, skip the 55 inch monitors, why not look into projectors? You maybe be able to find some that are HD ready for less than those TV's and save the Church some cash.

You could run everything through one computer, but if it were me, get one lower cost system to run easy worship only, then later, get another computer that can be dedicated to your image capture. You could also grab some audio recording software than can split tracks, run an input from your soundboard, and save the audio into mp3 files, then burn cd's for folks who would order them.

Honestly, if you split the work between 2 computers, this system actually might be overkill. SLI and crossfire, wouldn't mess with that. No need in my opinion.

But anyway, these are my thoughts and having worked with the Easy Worship and multimedia before, I would split the systems as I stated if it were me. This should give you a good starting point. But for a program, I don't know as much about MediaShout or Wirecast, but of all the programs we tried, Easy Worship was very easy, very intuitive, and made things nice. It was also nice because when you wanted to train new people if they are tech savvy they could learn to run it in a service or 2.


Don't know if you need to worry so much about HD really. Keep in mind, a lot of TV's can't run the res you are asking.

If it has to be the higher resolution, here is a projector that claims to run it.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4409632&CatId=1755

There is another for 1300, it is only 1000 lumens I think though. But do some searching, I bet you will be suprised what you will find.

 

[WR2]

Core i7 860 and Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2 P55 Micro ATX motherboard $350 NewEgg combo deal.
Review of the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2 P55 Micro ATX motherboard

4GB G-Skill DDR3 1333 RAM $79
EVGA GTS 250 video card $135 plus $20 rebate ->EasyWorship seems to favor the nVidida hardware.

Samsung F3 500GB HDD $55
LG 22x DVD Burner $30
Will you be duplicating DVDs for distribution? You might want to add a 2nd burner.

Antec Sonata III case and 500W Earthwatts PSU $110

That comes out to just a bit more than $850 for the system.

I just saw that Wirecast limitation again - have you heard of anyone having success running in Win7?
[strike]Im recommending you go with Win Vista (with the Win7 upgrade option) so you'll have time to sort out any Win7 issues with your software. Do you know any of the programs need to run on the 32bit version of Windows? Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit $110[/strike]

And that brings you in just under $1000

 

[WR2]

There won't be a requirement for SLI but you will need 2 video cards to get the four outputs you'll need.

 

[WR2]

Wirecast forums seem to indicate the program will run on Win7.

Blackmagic Intensity Pro HDMI capture cards

There looks to be a problem running more than one Blackmagic capture card per PC. Blackmagic Intensity Pro cards

 

[WR2]

From what I have seen it looks like Vista32 or Win7 32 are your best OS options.

 

[ingodwestream]

We did this in our church.

Easy Worship is an awesome program, very intuitive, very easy to use. You want something decently quick, I mean it does not have to be a monster, we were running an old single core Socket A Athlon 1800+ and 512 mb of ram, it ran fine.
Thanks...This is at the top of our list. EW is also less expensive than MediaShout

4670 for 70 bucks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125277
As WR2 stated, EW highly recommends Nvidia on their website. Seems to be outdated when they refer to avoiding Radeon 3000 series, but Wirecast also favors Nvidia also.
WD HD for 57


Also, a recommendation, skip the 55 inch monitors, why not look into projectors? You maybe be able to find some that are HD ready for less than those TV's and save the Church some cash.
I agree, but I was unfortunately pulled into this project after the in-house contractor had made the HDTV purchase already. I strongly recommended to change course and go 2 1080P projectors and quality screens such as Da-Lite. They have not went up yet, but I have a strong feeling it's not going to be the best choice given the reflective nature of HDTV screens and the bright lighting in the main room. Then there's the possible issue with on-screen text not being readable from the back rows. I was told long ago most projects turn into three. Finish it, Fix what is wrong with the first, and the third to get it right. While the inevitable is already set for the HD displays, getting solid advice from TH on the media PC will hopefully have me avoid that scenario.

Honestly, if you split the work between 2 computers, this system actually might be overkill.
I will take that into consideration. Unfortunately, the media room is rather small as it was probably designed for audio-only and the huge mixing board takes up much room. Space is at premium, so this is another reason for the desire for a single pc up for multiple media tasks.

But for a program, I don't know as much about MediaShout or Wirecast, but of all the programs we tried, Easy Worship was very easy, very intuitive, and made things nice. It was also nice because when you wanted to train new people if they are tech savvy they could learn to run it in a service or 2.
I have worked with Wirecast in the past. It is a very good app for video switching and live internet streaming. Good point on the training new people point.

Don't know if you need to worry so much about HD really. Keep in mind, a lot of TV's can't run the res you are asking.
I am trying to future-proof this project as much as possible within budget. In the end I hope this multimedia system will be a model for other HoW.

 

[ingodwestream]

Core i7 860 and Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2 P55 Micro ATX motherboard $350 NewEgg combo deal.
Review of the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2 P55 Micro ATX motherboard
I like this...is there any concerns with PCI-E slots being too close together where the fan of one video card prevents adding a second equal one? Besides 2 video cards, future ones include the Blackmagic Intensity Pro and 1 or 2 firewire cards.
4GB G-Skill DDR3 1333 RAM $79
EVGA GTS 250 video card $135 plus $20 rebate ->EasyWorship seems to favor the nVidida hardware.

Samsung F3 500GB HDD $55
LG 22x DVD Burner $30
Will you be duplicating DVDs for distribution? You might want to add a 2nd burner.
I saw a 4-bay DVD duplicator in the media room. Hope it works.

Antec Sonata III case and 500W Earthwatts PSU $110

That comes out to just a bit more than $850 for the system.
This looks good. I will review the links and reply with any questions.
I just saw that Wirecast limitation again - have you heard of anyone having success running in Win7?
No. Since Wirecast and internet streaming is a future phase of this project, I'm hoping Wirecast's fairly quick updates will include full Win7 support by the time this is implemented.
[strike]Im recommending you go with Win Vista (with the Win7 upgrade option) so you'll have time to sort out any Win7 issues with your software. Do you know any of the programs need to run on the 32bit version of Windows? [/strike]
Not that I am aware of other than Wirecast is Quicktime-based and there is no Windows 64bit version of Quicktime that I know about. This may be where many Wirecast issues start.


And that brings you in just under $1000

 

[ingodwestream]

There won't be a requirement for SLI but you will need 2 video cards to get the four outputs you'll need.

I agree. What about the option of a Core i5 or AMD Athlon II X3 435. Then 2 video cards totaling close to $200? Since this is a non-gaming machine... its my understanding it doesnt take a lot of GPU power to output 1080P.
From Easyworship, http://www.easyworship.com/easyworship/techspecs/#SystemRequirements
NVIDIA GeForce Video Cards

* Basic: 5200, 5500, 6200
* Recommended: 7600, 7800, 8400, 8600, 9400, 9500
* HD: 8800, 9600, 9800
What is the one-level upgrade card to the 9800? Don't get me wrong. I like the GTX250, just exploring 2 cards within this budget of $850. I talked with the project lead...and this $800 range is a go. With EW having a update in 4/09 but only mentions much older NVIDIA and ATI 3000s, the System Requirements page doesnt seem like it has been updated in a couple years. I will be giving EW customer service a call on this.

 

[ingodwestream]

Core i7 860 and Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2 P55 Micro ATX motherboard $350 NewEgg combo deal.

How often do newegg's i7 combo deals change? That combo is now $385.

 

[ingodwestream]

Another question... what about this video card? it a little less in price and has native hdmi. How does it compare to EVGA GTS250 card WR2 mentioned?

ASUS ENGTS250/DI/512MD3 GeForce GTS 250 512MB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121334]

 

[WR2]

Combo deals can change price frequently. It's also possible I typed the wrong price into my post.

Since space is at a premium do you want to think about a desktop style case - one with more of a component look? 17"W x ~17.5"D x 6.8"H You'll want to check the depth and any cable clearances especially carefully.
SILVERSTONE LC13 ATX Media Center / HTPC Case $90 a/r and Corsair 400CX power supply $30 after rebate

And it looks as if a full size ATX motherboard might be the best choice for your future requirements.
PCI-e X1 slot for a Blackmagic Intensity Pro HDMI capture card. Is there a requirement for a 2nd capture card?
PCI-e X16 for a primary video card
PCI-e x16 (x4) for a secondary video card (not required for onboard video)
PCI slot for a FireWire expansion card
PCI slot for a 2nd FireWire card if the motherboard doesnt have a built in FireWire (Asus P7P55D does have 1394a built in)
Core i5 750 and Asus P7P55D motherboard $330
Core i7 860 and Asus P7P55D motherboard $415

Phenom II X4 945 and GIGABYTE GA-MA785G-UD3H AM3 785G HDMI Motherboard $241 incl FireWire & video. 1 less video card needed.

EVGA GeForce GT 220 $80 chosen for its audio over HDMI, H.264 decoding and Flash 10.1 decoding.
If you find the current ATI cards can be used the recommendation might change to a HD 4650 video card.

 

[WR2]

Another question... what about this video card? it a little less in price and has native hdmi. How does it compare to EVGA GTS250 card WR2 mentioned? ASUS ENGTS250/DI/512MD3 GeForce GTS 250

It contains a S/PDIF cable in the accessory pack which makes me think it doesnt output audio over HDMI.

 

[ingodwestream]

^Thanks WR2, much appreciated for your additional recommendations.
Spent all day taking in the advice and searching my own... I submitted this:

ASUS P7P55D Deluxe LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard
ASUS GeForce GTS 250 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI
Combo Deal
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.275797

ASUS GeForce GTS 250 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121333

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor
Rosewill Green Series 700W Continuous @40°C,80 PLUS Certified,Single 12V Rail,Active PFC
Combo Deal
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.262899

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231274

COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
Combo Deal
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.273732

LG DVD Burner Black SATA Model GH22NS50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136167

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116716

Total before Rebates: $1,151.90

Freebies:
Kingston 4GB Micro SDHC Flash Card with microSD/SDHC USB Reader
(2) WOW+3D Vision discover Glasses Kit


I know the Rosewill PSU is suspect. Will it suffice? Must keep this around 1,150. Went Core i5 to get 2 video cards in the budget. I have until Monday Oct 26 to make changes. What you all think?! ...fell free to praise or criticize.

 

[WR2]

There are no glaring flaws in your choices. Even the Rosewill PSU doesn't appear to have any faults other that its brand name. It just doesn't have any independent reviews that we like to see to back up the MFGRs claims. Rosewill is NewEgg's 'house brand' in case you didn't know.

The case and HDD combo is especially good. That RC-690 case is very good as is the WD Caviar Black 640GB HDD.

I notice you went with the Retail version of Win7. Was that to get access to both the 32bit and 64bit versions?
Or did you want to have the MS technical support option? 90 days of Microsoft Support Services included.
Also you can migrate that copy of Win7 to a new computer in the future - just as long as its in use on just 1 system.

You also qualify to get the OEM version for $90 less. You only get to pick 1 version - 32 bit or 64bit. You'll have to pay MS if you need technical support (although you can use all of the self support options on the MS Support Site). And the OEM copy is 'locked' to that single system.

Using an OEM copy of Win7 and if you stayed with one GTS 250 and used a GT 220 as your 2nd video card you could probably sneak up into a i7 860 and still stay neutral in your budget.

 

[ingodwestream]

^ Yes, I have purchased Newegg's Rosewill in the past. Mostly external parts, so I'm willing to give them a try on the (gulp) PSU. Hopefully fate will intervene with a nice power supply going on a good sale this weekend.
I'm going to take your suggestions on the Win7 OEM and GT 220. Is the i7 860's performance over the i5 significant enough to warrant sacrifices in other areas? I'm speaking in general, as your Win7/GT220 suggestion is no sacrifice at all actually.

 

[WR2]

Without twin GTS 250s to power you'll be able to drop the PSU size to something in the 550W range. A single GTS 250 calls for a 450W PSU and the GT 220 power requirements are very small. 550W should get you plenty of extra power for your capture card and any extra firewire card.

The i7 860's hyper-threading (4 cores/8 threads) and faster clock (2.8Ghz) over the i5 750 (4 cores/4 threads & 2.66Ghz). My guess is that the difference in performance isn't great with your current software. But as you point out the GTS 250 / GT 220 combo doesnt limit you in any appreciable way so it's 'extra performance for free'. You could also stick with the i5 750 and save the difference in price which isn't a bad thing at all.

 

[micky_lund]

EasyWorship requires hardly anything to power it. I doubt the i7 is needed, but if it fits into the budget, go for it. We run it on dual core (2.0ghz), and 1~2gb ram, and runs fine.

Just be careful with it and Win7: it can be too smart for itself and tries to insert pics/movies from any DVD in it while running. So make sure u remove DVDs before u open EasyWorship.

 

[ingodwestream]

Without twin GTS 250s to power you'll be able to drop the PSU size to something in the 550W range. A single GTS 250 calls for a 450W PSU and the GT 220 power requirements are very small. 550W should get you plenty of extra power for your capture card and any extra firewire card.

The i7 860's hyper-threading (4 cores/8 threads) and faster clock (2.8Ghz) over the i5 750 (4 cores/4 threads & 2.66Ghz). My guess is that the difference in performance isn't great with your current software. But as you point out the GTS 250 / GT 220 combo doesnt limit you in any appreciable way so it's 'extra performance for free'. You could also stick with the i5 750 and save the difference in price which isn't a bad thing at all.

Good advice on the PSU. This weekend I'm going to comb the build and come up with an equally strong, but lean revision. I think I will stick with the i5. Reading reviews on the ASUS Mb, this thing seems like it's a novice dream board for overclocking.

Do you think I could get 3Ghz on the i5 with the stock cooler? Maybe add 2 more fans to the CM690 vacant openings, if needed?

I submitted the build with the i5, so putting i7 in the revision my raise some eyebrows. One has to take into account the much deserved coaxing I have to do for this media pc to come to life. Dealing with non-tech savvy leaders coupled with the audio contractor saying that adding a video card to the Emachines C2825 currently in there would be ok.

 

[ingodwestream]

EasyWorship requires hardly anything to power it. I doubt the i7 is needed, but if it fits into the budget, go for it. We run it on dual core (2.0ghz), and 1~2gb ram, and runs fine.

Just be careful with it and Win7: it can be too smart for itself and tries to insert pics/movies from any DVD in it while running. So make sure u remove DVDs before u open EasyWorship.

With 1080P presentation screens, I think it would be a disservice to use anything less than 720p for source media material.
From EW's support page:

HD Requirements

* 2.8 Ghz Intel dual core or quad core processor or better
* 1 GB RAM or more for XP / 2 GB RAM or more for Vista
* SATA 7200 RPM Hard Drive with 8MB cache
* 500 MB of free disk space
* NVIDIA G-Force 8600 video card or better (we suggest PCI Express NVIDIA graphics cards).

I have worked with 720p and 1080p video in the past video editing in Sony Vegas, text over motion backgrounds and transtions such as swipes is very demanding. Even those requirements are conservative, it's one reason I'd like to leave the possibility of going 64bit and 8GB RAM if need be.
Thanks for the caution on media in the DVD drive while running EW. There should be a choice in options or preferences to disable auto-importing, no? Anyways, I had planned to download the trial this weekend and take a gander. Thank you.

 

[WR2]

i5 750 will reach 3.0Ghz without breaking a sweat and without the need for extra fans in the RC-690 case. The 3 stock 120mm fans are plenty.
We havent talked about the i5 750's Turbo feature yet. The i5 750 could hit 3.2Ghz under certain conditions without you doing anything. Check out the Turbo specs.

Win7 can enhance that Turbo ability; keeping a single core (or 2nd core) loaded longer before sending work to other cores.
Windows 7: Microsoft Listens To Intel, Finally

It might be technically correct that a AMD XP 2800+ CPU might have run your software but it wouldn't have been a pretty sight trying to do any HD editing. You're talking about 3 or 4 times longer to finish the same HD editing tasks, easy. And at a much higher frustration factor for the graphic artist for sure.

For comparison using the Passmark CPU benchmark testing:
i5 750 4055
XP 2800+ 437 (you'll need to look at the 'low end' chart to find the XP 2800+)
micky_lund's 2.0 dual core probably gets about 1200 on the same benchmark.

Here is an interesting combo deal $170 = $20 off:
OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W PSU $25 rebate and 10% off with promo code OZSAVEOCT, ends 11/1
Windows Home Premium 32bit
There is also a combo deal for the 64bit version of Win7.
-> Just so you know - the 32bit version has the 4GB address space limitation so 8GB of RAM option isnt there. In fact the 4GB RAM installed will have about 3GB and a bit more of usable RAM. It's the trade-off to get a 32bit OS that might play better with older programs.

 

[ingodwestream]

As always, solid advice. The Passmark charts will add to my arsenal for the meeting on Monday. I looked at the OCZ psu and I think it will be a good replacement for the Rosewill. I will post a revised build soon. Your knowledge had me take a look at your profile. Joined TH in 1970? wow! Was your first computer an IBM Mainframe?