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Is my PSU too small or i my rig just sucky?

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October 24, 2009 7:41:21 PM

My rig has been given some much needed attention lately.
I bought some extra memory for it, but for some reason when I put all the memory in it seems to crash on start up. Only 2 or 3 times did the monitor actually respond and show what the rig was doing (trying to load windows).

The memory I already had was Corsair 2x1 dual channel 1333mhz sticks. I bought the exact same memory from the exact same store, just 2x2 instead om 2x1 (so 6GB in all)
I tried taking the new 2x2 out and it starts fine. If i take out the old memory and leave the new 2x2 in the rig, - it starts fine.

My PSU is a Antec Neo He500 (500watt), the mobo is a Gigabyte GA-X48T-DQ6.
The slots for the memory are color coded, so it's easy to figure out where to put the memory (same memory in same color), plus I looked in the manual... And I swapped them around. No positive difference :( 

I know I could settle with the 4GB of memory, it's just such a waste to leave the extra 2GB when they are the same.
Plus I'm worried, if it's my PSU how will it deal with the 4890 card I just bought as well. It's not put in yet, because I need a 6pin to 8pin adapter to get it to work.
I have a ASUS 9800GTX in now.

I suck at "counting" watts... Is there a test somewhere that can tell me if my PSU is maxed out?

More about : psu small rig sucky

a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
October 24, 2009 7:51:17 PM

Are the timings and voltages for the sticks manually set properly in bios? Do the sticks require the same voltage and timings? If not choose the higher voltage and the looser timings. Running 4 sticks is harder on the motherboard to stabilize, and unless you are running a 64 bit OS you wont be able to use more than 4GB anyway. Your PSU should be fine, you likely just have an issue with memory setup.
October 24, 2009 7:55:03 PM

Well, you need at least 500W of power for your new video card. Something below this will make your PC hazardous.

Also, you cannot mix memory like that, it can give a lot of blue screens. You need the exact same model and size. Both of your memory kits seem to work fine... just not together.
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October 26, 2009 2:54:15 PM

hunter315 said:
Are the timings and voltages for the sticks manually set properly in bios? Do the sticks require the same voltage and timings? If not choose the higher voltage and the looser timings. Running 4 sticks is harder on the motherboard to stabilize, and unless you are running a 64 bit OS you wont be able to use more than 4GB anyway. Your PSU should be fine, you likely just have an issue with memory setup.


As I said the sticks are completely identical except for the amount. 2 are 1GB and 2 are 2GB (2x1 and 2x2 dual).
Same brand, same mhz and even same model (4GB >2 x 2 GB< CORSAIR XMS3 -1333 MHz / PC3 CL9)
They are not OC'ed, so i'm guessing the timings and voltage should be the same?
I'm running Windows 7 64bit and my mobo should support up to 8GB.
Do the voltage change when I add more memory? Or how to I check to see if the voltage is to low?


redgarl said:
Well, you need at least 500W of power for your new video card. Something below this will make your PC hazardous.

Also, you cannot mix memory like that, it can give a lot of blue screens. You need the exact same model and size. Both of your memory kits seem to work fine... just not together.

So you are saying i would need 2 times 2x2 instead of the 2x1 + 2x2 I have now?
a b B Homebuilt system
October 26, 2009 3:00:40 PM

might be something else
October 26, 2009 3:29:39 PM

I hope not :??: 


Totally offtopic.... But I'm going to be the first to buy one, when PCes gets feelings and a brain so it can tell me what's wrong.
And if it ever says "I don't know" about a hardware problem, I will threaten to kill the laptop and make it watch if it doesn't figure it out.

I rarely have hardware trouble, but every time I upgrade there is a "figuring out" periode... Or a WTF! period...
Then someone gives me the obvious answer to all my problems, I apologize to my PC for blaming it for my problems and we forget it ever happened...

I have too much free time on my hands... :) 
a b B Homebuilt system
October 26, 2009 3:36:11 PM

are your voltages and timings the manufacturers recommended specs? try setting it with just the 2x2gb installed
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
October 26, 2009 3:45:17 PM

The power consumption on the 4890 is pretty low. You don't need 500w to run it. It's wise to have at least that for some head room though. Your PSU should be fine.

My $$ is on the RAM. Different kits don't tend to mix well. You pretty much answered it yourself by isolating each kit, with successful results.

You can download cpuz to check on the memory stats and compare the different kits.
a b B Homebuilt system
October 26, 2009 6:10:56 PM

I call you on the dissent against different memory kits working. Sorry guys, but it's the same except for size, it should be fine. I myself have run a 2x1 and 2x2 and the 1 gig sticks were corsairs, the 2 gig sticks were OCZ. Before that I ran 2x512 meg and 2x1 gig and the 512's were crucial. I have since stolen the two one gig sticks out for use in a different PC and put the 512's back - guess what? the 2 gig OCZ's work with the 512 meg crucials.

The reason I removed the 512's in the first place was because my system up and stopped working with them in there. I wanted to put them back after stealing the other RAM out. After some extensive testing, I found that it was one of the 512 sticks causing the problem. I even ran with the working 512, 1 of the 1 gig corsairs and both 2 gig OCZ's and it worked fine. Turns out crucial has a lifetime warranty, so I simply RMA'd the 512's and got them back and they run great.

In my experience, is it all DDR2? Is it all DDR1? Then it all works. I've had even more mismatched DDR1, and it's simply not an issue. If they're different speeds the others will slow down, but it still simply runs. If I were you, I'd do more testing with weird combinations and even single sticks, you've done basically 2 tests.
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
October 26, 2009 8:35:15 PM

It's not a good idea to mix RAM kits. You can call whatever you'd like. The simple fact is, if you mix speeds, the faster RAM will downclock to the slower speed. That's assuming it even works. Many times they kits will not work together. It's even more of a problem when mixing different voltages.
a b B Homebuilt system
October 26, 2009 9:34:07 PM

Dude, he isn't even mixing speeds. And neither am I, mine is all DDR2-800. I'm just saying that that's an irrelevant concept because I've not seen ram not work just for the hell of not working.

He's still using same everything except for size. If you really had to have each stick keyed the exact same as every other they would sell 4 packs for our only dual channel motherboards. But this is simply not the case. They sell 2 packs, one for each channel. Even then, the 2 pack is ONLY to make dual channel work correctly, NOT because having two different brand same size same speed would magically stop working.
a b } Memory
October 26, 2009 10:11:58 PM

@False_dmitry_ii

Your foul language has been removed from your post by me, thats your warning you will not get another one from me, make your arguements, but leave out the foul language.

Quote:

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I suggest you re-read the forum rules. 4ryan6
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
October 27, 2009 12:30:30 AM

False_Dmitry_II said:
Dude, he isn't even mixing speeds. And neither am I, mine is all DDR2-800. I'm just saying that that's an irrelevant concept because I've not seen ram not work just for the hell of not working.

He's still using same everything except for size. If you really had to have each stick keyed the exact same as every other they would sell 4 packs for our only dual channel motherboards. But this is simply not the case. They sell 2 packs, one for each channel. Even then, the 2 pack is ONLY to make dual channel work correctly, NOT because having two different brand same size same speed would magically stop working.


2 kits of 2x2GB
4 kits 2x1GB

Make sense?
a b B Homebuilt system
October 27, 2009 9:02:02 AM

Sure, except I've already shown that doing that is unnecessary. I fully got what you were trying to say, it's just not something you need to do to make computers run. Period.

If I'd had trouble with that on the plenty of motherboards I've worked on I'd agree with you, but I haven't. Same brand/speed is pretty close to exactly the same anyway, as far as that goes. While I've only been building since 2005 I've retrofitted and repurposed far older stuff, and every single time mixing brand (and in older stuff sometimes speed) it has NEVER, EVER caused any issues. The only issue is a bad stick or a bad slot (I've got a old laptop that doesn't hold down enough, can cause 'your amount of RAM has changed' shenanigans on bootup. Oh, and those are both exactly the same).

Even on toms single core overclocking/agp articles they mention the fact that their overclocking isn't likely because in the real world most people would have mixed frankenRAM that would limit the overclock. It's extremely common.

It's still a fact that dual kits came out only for hyperthreading to start, and then dual channel. NO other reason.
a b B Homebuilt system
October 27, 2009 10:47:42 AM

North Bridge voltage ?
Had to bump it in order to get 2x2 and 2x1 Corsair 1066 ( DDR2 ) to run together on my X48.
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
October 27, 2009 11:11:19 AM

False_Dmitry_II said:
Sure, except I've already shown that doing that is unnecessary. I fully got what you were trying to say, it's just not something you need to do to make computers run. Period.

If I'd had trouble with that on the plenty of motherboards I've worked on I'd agree with you, but I haven't. Same brand/speed is pretty close to exactly the same anyway, as far as that goes. While I've only been building since 2005 I've retrofitted and repurposed far older stuff, and every single time mixing brand (and in older stuff sometimes speed) it has NEVER, EVER caused any issues. The only issue is a bad stick or a bad slot (I've got a old laptop that doesn't hold down enough, can cause 'your amount of RAM has changed' shenanigans on bootup. Oh, and those are both exactly the same).

Even on toms single core overclocking/agp articles they mention the fact that their overclocking isn't likely because in the real world most people would have mixed frankenRAM that would limit the overclock. It's extremely common.

It's still a fact that dual kits came out only for hyperthreading to start, and then dual channel. NO other reason.


That is all based on your experience. So here's your first peek at a scenario where mixing doesn't work.

It's not that it CAN'T work. It's that it CAN cause more problems than it's worth. The OP has tried the build with the old, the new, and mixed. They each work on their own, but not together.
a b B Homebuilt system
October 27, 2009 3:09:01 PM

When he tested them by themselves was it in the same two slots? Did he only use the further two slots when they were together? We don't know how he tested. For all we know, disabling dual channel by plugging them in mixed as well could work.

And yeah, I will admit that all of mine is anecdotal, however when it was mentioned as simply what happens over the lifetime of a computer in at least one tom's article, that shows that it isn't all that much of a problem. It sounds like yours is too.

Buying another set as a solution doesn't really mean anything since he is now fully intending to just coast on the 4 gigs - while enough, it seems silly to do so. He'd have to buy another set just to do tests and see that possibly his motherboard was faulty the whole time.

Although I will say that of current stuff everything I've worked on is AMD. If Intel randomly has more issues with that since socket 775 (which this is) then I'll just have to differ to you that it could be a problem with intel boards. When I help a friend rebuild a system I'll mix RAM on that and see what his old 775 does.
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
October 27, 2009 3:22:29 PM

If you want more people with the same issues, just google mixing RAM. I'm sure you'll come up with all kinds of people with the same problem.

I've personally tried it 3 or 4 times. Most were on older systems that customers wanted upgraded. None of them mixed. I had various BSODs, and failed boots. I did get 2 different 2x1GB kits to work on one of my personal PCs. But as I said, it can work, but it can cause problems.
a b B Homebuilt system
October 27, 2009 3:41:27 PM

I did that, the first one is a guy mixing volts. The second is asking if it will be an issue, doing it (and it working) then finding out about dual channel, and the third is asking, and about speed of mobo and that it'll just slow down. Fourth just asking and it worked. The fifth is a random site naysaying.

I've done it far more times than that, and never had an issue. You aren't going to see people like me by doing a google search because it would be silly to make a post saying BTW everyone this works fine.

It's always possible dust is an issue, especially with random people.
a b } Memory
October 27, 2009 4:50:20 PM

nicki84 said:
My rig has been given some much needed attention lately.
I bought some extra memory for it, but for some reason when I put all the memory in it seems to crash on start up. Only 2 or 3 times did the monitor actually respond and show what the rig was doing (trying to load windows).

The memory I already had was Corsair 2x1 dual channel 1333mhz sticks. I bought the exact same memory from the exact same store, just 2x2 instead om 2x1 (so 6GB in all)
I tried taking the new 2x2 out and it starts fine. If i take out the old memory and leave the new 2x2 in the rig, - it starts fine.

My PSU is a Antec Neo He500 (500watt), the mobo is a Gigabyte GA-X48T-DQ6.
The slots for the memory are color coded, so it's easy to figure out where to put the memory (same memory in same color), plus I looked in the manual... And I swapped them around. No positive difference :( 

I know I could settle with the 4GB of memory, it's just such a waste to leave the extra 2GB when they are the same.
Plus I'm worried, if it's my PSU how will it deal with the 4890 card I just bought as well. It's not put in yet, because I need a 6pin to 8pin adapter to get it to work.
I have a ASUS 9800GTX in now.

I suck at "counting" watts... Is there a test somewhere that can tell me if my PSU is maxed out?


Quote:
I bought the exact same memory from the exact same store, just 2x2 instead om 2x1 (so 6GB in all)


No Sorry, you did not buy the exact same memory module sets, even if the voltage required and the timings were exactly the same, that does not mean those modules will run those settings as a 6gb setup.

You can get them to run together if you know what you're doing, you'll have to bump up the DDR3 memory slot voltage and relax the timings and probably increase the N/B voltage, but you're going to need to gain the knowledge to get them to work.

If you relax the timings with 6gb you will sacrifice performance, you'd be better off to just run the 4G 2 x 2G, Win7 64bit will work just fine with that.

You need to understand those modules were tested by Corsair in pairs to run at those settings, they were not tested or guaranteed to run with other modules at the same settings.

Plus the fact some motherboards are more forgiving than others at allowing filling all the memory slots, and some motherboards actually recommend only using the primary slots, check your manual, as a matter of fact my ASUS Striker II Extreme is one suggested not to use the secondary slots, however it is a dedicated OCing M/B.

Quote:
Plus I'm worried, if it's my PSU how will it deal with the 4890 card I just bought as well. It's not put in yet, because I need a 6pin to 8pin adapter to get it to work.


Johnny Guru stated it the best I've heard yet, if your P/S has all the connectors you need for your graphics card setup without using any adapters then you're covered.

I know that doesn't help solve your power supply question but I'm a firm believer of having more power than I really need and I buy future wise anyway to prepare for my possible upgrades later.

I do hope that amid all the arguments that have gone on in this thread so far, that you got your original questions answered, because I'm closing this thread, feel free to start another. Ryan
!