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Is Intel Doomed? (Plus random stuff): Part 2

Sorry Dogman,

need my points, need my points.
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More about intel doomed plus random stuff part
  1. Did AMD break even in Q4 2009?
  2. Well if Intel keeps delaying those 32nm quads, then... no they will be fine, but I'll be pissed.

    Not that I plan on buying any, but they sure are exciting.

    We shall see, Bulldozer will be a new architect and AMD will have the only reasonably priced 6-core CPU for a good long while it looks like. There might be some space for AMD to b*tch slap Intel, which would be great for competition, but it is too early to know.
  3. randomizer said:
    Did AMD break even in Q4 2009?

    Their CPU division had a small operational profit, but overall the company lost money.
  4. That was Q3.
  5. Quote:
    That was Q3.

    Yep, of course. Dopey me. :kaola:
  6. randomizer said:
    Did AMD break even in Q4 2009?



    "The Figures" haven't been announced yet.
  7. randomizer said:
    Did AMD break even in Q4 2009?


    OK, just what does that hammer do?? You've got my curiosity going now, plus I'm far too lazy to look up the 'badges of the day' stuff here on THG :D.
  8. AMW1011 said:
    Well if Intel keeps delaying those 32nm quads, then... no they will be fine, but I'll be pissed.

    Not that I plan on buying any, but they sure are exciting.

    We shall see, Bulldozer will be a new architect and AMD will have the only reasonably priced 6-core CPU for a good long while it looks like. There might be some space for AMD to b*tch slap Intel, which would be great for competition, but it is too early to know.


    Agreed - I'd like to see AMD push Intel into releasing a 32nm quadcore at $199. Or drop the price on that hexcore to $399 :kaola:

    I've been sitting on my thumbs for 8 months now, and am finally ready to build a new rig. Well, maybe after this weekend if I can whack a few bosses in Dragon Age - gotta keep my priorities straight :whistle: .
  9. fazers_on_stun said:
    Agreed - I'd like to see AMD push Intel into releasing a 32nm quadcore at $199. Or drop the price on that hexcore to $399 :kaola:

    I've been sitting on my thumbs for 8 months now, and am finally ready to build a new rig. Well, maybe after this weekend if I can whack a few bosses in Dragon Age - gotta keep my priorities straight :whistle: .



    sexacore

    "dual" and "quad" are latin, "hex" is greek. CPU manufacturers just use "hex" as not to offend stupid people.
  10. While your right Kewlx25, and yes it does sound better than hex, it is standard to call something that is made of 6 a hex, not sex.

    If you look at the English language logically you will never understand it...
  11. Quote:
    In some countries you can say Windows 7 is quickly taking most of the market share whereas in other places like mine, India, XP will be around for a long time. Here the HD5xxx series cards are way too expensive and are absolutely not value for money, so why bother about a DX11 card and why bother about a DX11 OS???
    Most people have to dish out their 5 month pay in full to get an i7 rig.
    People only wait for the pirated version of the Windows to hit the market! That's all!
    That's why people here are happily buying AMD or LGA775 rigs now and are happy with it.


    what is it like 50 lakhs for an i7 rig and 5 lakhs for a graphics card?

    Quote:


    How do you get a hammer?

    Quote:
    Yes, it was a joke.

    It was a parody thread of "Is AMD doomed".

    Upendra, permission to kill me is denied if you were asking.


    *must stay away from swiss army knife*

    yes they copied my thread which was the original month long thread that the stoned cat closed for some reason
  12. fazers_on_stun said:
    Agreed - I'd like to see AMD push Intel into releasing a 32nm quadcore at $199. Or drop the price on that hexcore to $399 :kaola:

    I've been sitting on my thumbs for 8 months now, and am finally ready to build a new rig. Well, maybe after this weekend if I can whack a few bosses in Dragon Age - gotta keep my priorities straight :whistle: .


    Do you enjoy DA: Origins? I bought it but it's a bit...meh. Gimme BG II anyday over this...too much long drawn *yawn* parts even for an RPG.

    Admittedly I only got my party to ~ lvl 7 or so before the boredom got to me.
  13. AMW1011 said:
    AMD will have the only reasonably priced 6-core CPU for a good long while it looks like


    People will still compare what you are calling a reasonably priced 6-core with the "OMG-sell-your-firstborn" 6-core and lament that it is awful that the reasonably priced one can't compete, doesn't have a chance, and would never be purchased by anybody that has any intelligence.
  14. keithlm said:
    People will still compare what you are calling a reasonably priced 6-core with the "OMG-sell-your-firstborn" 6-core and lament that it is awful that the reasonably priced one can't compete, doesn't have a chance, and would never be purchased by anybody that has any intelligence.


    Yep. We'll see the usual suspects here proclaiming how gulftown invalidates Thuban, even though none of them will ever own one.
  15. John Q Public does not know or care about a 32nm version of this I7 they "may" have heard about. Intel just does not need to take it to the next level yet. This generation of cpu can continue to pay for itself and future R+D. They will introduce the 32nm with future clock speed when increases are needed. When the public is ready for another new model. The 930 is the new model for 2010.
  16. It always amuses me when intel fanboys claim intel 'are holding back' as the excuse for laughable performance.

    From where I'm seeing it, intels 32nm is a tiny step forward. That doesn't bode well in the face of the incoming 40% improvement from glofo's 32nm. :)
  17. Quote:
    Do you enjoy DA: Origins? I bought it but it's a bit...meh. Gimme BG II anyday over this...too much long drawn *yawn* parts even for an RPG.

    Admittedly I only got my party to ~ lvl 7 or so before the boredom got to me.


    I agree to a certain extent, it was enjoyable for me but it just wasn't worth the hype. The skills sucked, the classes weren't diverse enough and there really wasn't enough to do outside of side quests.

    Quote:
    It always amuses me when intel fanboys claim intel 'are holding back' as the excuse for laughable performance.

    From where I'm seeing it, intels 32nm is a tiny step forward. That doesn't bode well in the face of the incoming 40% improvement from glofo's 32nm. :)


    I think there is some truth to both arguments. I think that Intel decided to develop the 32nm quads a bit more, partly due to the ones they have not quite up to their standard. I think we all can agree that a faster CPU from Intel is a little "meh" right now, they already have the fastest and most expensive. What is exciting is the prospect of AMD coming back with high end competition which should lower prices and drive up innovation.

    That said, I'm not sure we are going to see much of an improvement over current processors from either company. In the end, there are no real world tasks that really need much more horsepower, a very few exceptions noted, and synthetics can not be a truly credible source for future programs even though that is there point. I think this also weighs heavily on Intel, their market isn't experiencing much demand.

    I think that if you are sitting on an Athlon II X4 620 or higher then near-future CPUs should be pretty low on your shopping list.
  18. Quote:
    It always amuses me when intel fanboys claim intel 'are holding back' as the excuse for laughable performance.

    From where I'm seeing it, intels 32nm is a tiny step forward. That doesn't bode well in the face of the incoming 40% improvement from glofo's 32nm. :)

    *******YAWN!!!!!!!!**********
    Are you under some delusion that you think your fellow forum members believe your at all lol unbiased or qualified to comment on that ? Sorry if you need everything explained to you twice, but whether its amd or intel, the consumer is not concerned with the die size of the cpu in his computer. If a new feature, more cores or higher clock speed is associated with it yes. It means something. The overclocker enthusiast is only.0001%, who licks his lips at lower vcore/clock speed numbers associated with a smaller die. Its AMD that needs the smaller die. The Phenom II chip needs to be clocked near its physical limit to be competitive, but you knew that.
  19. Wow, what on Earth happened lol?

    This should be an epic saga.
  20. notty22 said:
    *******YAWN!!!!!!!!**********
    Are you under some delusion that you think your fellow forum members believe your at all lol unbiased or qualified to comment on that ? Sorry if you need everything explained to you twice, but whether its amd or intel, the consumer is not concerned with the die size of the cpu in his computer. If a new feature, more cores or higher clock speed is associated with it yes. It means something. The overclocker enthusiast is only.0001%, who licks his lips at lower vcore/clock speed numbers associated with a smaller die. Its AMD that needs the smaller die. The Phenom II chip needs to be clocked near its physical limit to be competitive, but you knew that.http://img.tomshardware.com/forum/uk/icones/smilies/kaola.gif


    Lol cuz you are the epitome of truth and brilliance in everything about cpu's right notty? :D

    Intel are holding back their cpu's or not? This is the funniest thing about intel fanboys, they can't actually decide for themselves whether or not intel is deliberately holding back progress or really not that far ahead of AMD. :D :D
  21. Hehe, hence we have the educated consumer :P

    Core-wise AMD wins in lowest cost quad :D

    *Group hug*
  22. amdfangirl said:
    Hehe, hence we have the educated consumer :P

    Core-wise AMD wins in lowest cost quad :D

    *Group hug*

    I've been over to Dell's web site after Christmas , I noticed they are featuring AMD in most of their inspiron under 800 dollar computers. Mainly the 620 in a lot of them, the systems seem priced a little higher than the core2duos and optional quads that were featured a couple months ago. More profit for Dell, unless of Course Intel was selling their chips at a loss (lol).
  23. If anyone tries to say that Intel is "far" ahead of AMD, then they are pretty delusional. C2Q was "far" ahead of Phenom I...

    As for notty, wy do AMD chips need to be clock near their limits to be competitive? Here I was under the impression that an AMD quad without an L3 cache and at the same clock speed did really well against the i5 750 and i7 920 for the price.

    Guess I was wrong...

    Wake me up in three years when I can even think about upgrading CPUs...
  24. notty22 said:
    I've been over to Dell's web site after Christmas , I noticed they are featuring AMD in most of their inspiron under 800 dollar computers. Mainly the 620 in a lot of them, the systems seem priced a little higher than the core2duos and optional quads that were featured a couple months ago. More profit for Dell, unless of Course Intel was selling their chips at a loss (lol).


    Try beating this for the money:

    http://www.provantage.com/acer-pt-sbx02-013~7ACED06Q.htm
  25. Hence *GROUP HUG*

    Considering most sales are mainstream, AMD isn't in any trouble at all.
  26. AMW1011 said:
    Try beating this for the money:

    http://www.provantage.com/acer-pt-sbx02-013~7ACED06Q.htm

    Ahhhh the Fount of Quality that is Acer. :heink:
  27. wow my part 2 didn't get this much traffic i feel really bad now my thread got beaten down in everything........

    but my thread still maintains its originality

    that is one thing you evil fanboys can never take away from my thread!!!!!

    *takes out flamethrowers and burns AMD and Intel fanboys to death*

    *walks away to ponder the meaning of forums*
  28. keithlm said:
    People will still compare what you are calling a reasonably priced 6-core with the "OMG-sell-your-firstborn" 6-core and lament that it is awful that the reasonably priced one can't compete, doesn't have a chance, and would never be purchased by anybody that has any intelligence.


    Yep. Intel charges $1K+ for a CPU and its an outrage. AMD does the same thing when their CPU is the better one and its fine.

    Same old same old.
  29. To increase post count :P
  30. yes
  31. keithlm said:
    People will still compare what you are calling a reasonably priced 6-core with the "OMG-sell-your-firstborn" 6-core and lament that it is awful that the reasonably priced one can't compete, doesn't have a chance, and would never be purchased by anybody that has any intelligence.

    I think that most people will end up comparing Phenom II X6 to Core i7 (Quad) due to the similar level of performance between the two.

    Quote:
    Yep. We'll see the usual suspects here proclaiming how gulftown invalidates Thuban, even though none of them will ever own one.

    Core i7 invalidates Phenom II X6 (ought to perform better or close enough to invalidate the Phenom II X6). Gulftown will simply be the uber high end product that people like me will purchase (I will be getting two of them).
  32. Chad Boga said:
    Ahhhh the Fount of Quality that is Acer. :heink:


    Wait...are you saying Dell makes high quality pc's? :pt1cable:
  33. Quote:
    Wait...are you saying Dell makes high quality pc's? :pt1cable:

    Dell makes a mirage of various PC Models. Unlike Acer, Dell does make high quality PCs in their XPS lineups. I would argue that Dell probably makes the best OEM PCs out of the big guys (HP, Acer, Lenovo etc).

    After all, Alienware is Dell.
  34. Making the best OEM PC's out of HP, Acer, Lenovo and Dell...sorry but that isn't exactly an accolade.

    They are all garbage, just varying degrees of it.
  35. Random thoughts.
    If AMDs BD comes in very competitive, itll cost more, as the perf jump makes the cost justifiable. The only way costs will go down is if Intel which is claiming AMD is secong tier, lowers their prices, and I dont see that happening, and if they do, all this AMD lower tier crap is just that.
    And if they dont lower prices, all this Intel has great pricing at great perf ratio has to end as well, as theres no incentives to buy Intel over similarly competitive AMD cpus, which is what some claim by the low costs and perf of the AMD 620 quad, while some go as far to claim it being not fair. This scenario only applies for mobile, where Intel currently has a decent advantage in power usage.
    As for the 1000$ cpus, if AMD limits their top cpus only with a black edition, and yet charges less than 1000$, then of course, we can see where the merit of spending 1000$ for a top cpu lays, as the srgument the best meets competition, and all previous arguments and statements about 1 company doing what the other etc ends.
    I believe AMDs pricing approach has basically changed from before, and we wont know for certain until they reach top competitive perf, but watch for this.
    Also, at this point, the good enough barrier has been hit already for average Joe, and going forwards with improvements plays into a cheaper alternative, or AMD, and is a wiser approach for both companies IMHO.
    Itll come down to feature sets, and the most compelling for average Joe will be gfx, where we see Intel behind
  36. ElMoIsEviL said:
    Dell makes a mirage of various PC Models. Unlike Acer, Dell does make high quality PCs in their XPS lineups. I would argue that Dell probably makes the best OEM PCs out of the big guys (HP, Acer, Lenovo etc).

    After all, Alienware is Dell.


    I have a horrible experience with Dell

    Alienware also has gone lower in quality after Dell acquistion

    as for HP their Voodoo and Envy PCs are good as well as their Desktops their laptops are a not as good though

    Lenovo and is very stable but overpriced

    Sony is just for name and total crap

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/rescuecom-apple-asus,8489.html?xtmc=most_reliable_brand&xtcr=3

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-asus-lenovo-computer-reliability,7364.html
  37. JAYDEEJOHN said:
    Random thoughts.
    If AMDs BD comes in very competitive, itll cost more, as the perf jump makes the cost justifiable. The only way costs will go down is if Intel which is claiming AMD is secong tier, lowers their prices, and I dont see that happening, and if they do, all this AMD lower tier crap is just that.
    And if they dont lower prices, all this Intel has great pricing at great perf ratio has to end as well, as theres no incentives to buy Intel over similarly competitive AMD cpus, which is what some claim by the low costs and perf of the AMD 620 quad, while some go as far to claim it being not fair. This scenario only applies for mobile, where Intel currently has a decent advantage in power usage.
    As for the 1000$ cpus, if AMD limits their top cpus only with a black edition, and yet charges less than 1000$, then of course, we can see where the merit of spending 1000$ for a top cpu lays, as the srgument the best meets competition, and all previous arguments and statements about 1 company doing what the other etc ends.
    I believe AMDs pricing approach has basically changed from before, and we wont know for certain until they reach top competitive perf, but watch for this.
    Also, at this point, the good enough barrier has been hit already for average Joe, and going forwards with improvements plays into a cheaper alternative, or AMD, and is a wiser approach for both companies IMHO.
    Itll come down to feature sets, and the most compelling for average Joe will be gfx, where we see Intel behind


    But according to all the AMD lovers here, AMD would never charge more for their CPUs because they love the consumer*!!!!!!

    * by consumer I mean their wallet.
  38. Well, a perfect example is the 5xxx series. While they could have ramped up the [rices of the 5850 and the 5870 and the 5970, they didnt, so this shows their pricing change, IMHO. Whether this strategy conitues into their cpu segments, only time will tell.
  39. JAYDEEJOHN said:
    Well, a perfect example is the 5xxx series. While they could have ramped up the [rices of the 5850 and the 5870 and the 5970, they didnt, so this shows their pricing change, IMHO. Whether this strategy conitues into their cpu segments, only time will tell.


    Actually they had a HD5K shortage, the price jumped $50 bucks and yet they still pushed out 2 million GPUs faster than any other previous GPU. Kinda weird.
  40. Its the pricing, the anticipation, the value created from their 4xxx series and nVidia lack of new product in the market, plus their renaming.
    Pricing remained hundreds less than nvidias last and current opening prices.
    The 4xxx series came just under those cards, at near half the price, making nVidia drop theirs (which I suspect may happen somewhat if BD is good)
    If BD is good, Im thinkingtheyll handle it much like the 5 series, higher, but ultimately lower than Intel especially at highend
  41. Kewlx25 said:
    sexacore

    "dual" and "quad" are latin, "hex" is greek. CPU manufacturers just use "hex" as not to offend stupid people.


    LOL - thanks for the explanation. However I should point out that "hex" would probably offend Wiccans :kaola: .
  42. Quote:
    Do you enjoy DA: Origins? I bought it but it's a bit...meh. Gimme BG II anyday over this...too much long drawn *yawn* parts even for an RPG.

    Admittedly I only got my party to ~ lvl 7 or so before the boredom got to me.


    Heh, yes although I agree that there's too much forced conversations between the characters - if you bang on the escape key you can cut through the talking heads until the next dialog selection. But you have to take care with your teammates, to raise their approval high enough so that you can see the gratuitous love scenes :kaola: .

    And obviously you didn't use the level cheat - when you're in Ostager and go out on your mission in the Korkari Wilds (or whatever) to pick up 3 vials of darkspawn blood plus the Grey Wardens scrolls, get the vials but not the scrolls, then report back to Duncan and choose the "not yet" dialog response. The game mistakenly gives you the experience points but continues on, expecting you to go back into the Wilds to fetch the scrolls. So if you just repeat the dialog sequence, you can watch your character's XP index climb. IIRC I got my rogue character up to level 14 (every 7th level will unlock additional class abilities) before I got bored and resumed play.

    That's all the cheating I did, which is almost necessary since some of the bosses are ridiculously tough at the early levels, esp. since my "tank" is pretty worthless at staying alive long enough for the rest of my team to pick off the boss.
  43. Quote:
    It always amuses me when intel fanboys claim intel 'are holding back' as the excuse for laughable performance.

    From where I'm seeing it, intels 32nm is a tiny step forward. That doesn't bode well in the face of the incoming 40% improvement from glofo's 32nm. :)


    Hmm, that "40% improvement" sounds awfully familiar :kaola: .

  44. Last time they said 25%, and i point out, thats against their own chips, not Intels, they nailed it.
    Have you read up on BD?
    Check out dresden boys blog, good solid infos, some AMD doesnt want out, but hes caught on thru watching the patents, and his directions pretty much parallels AMDs, good stuff
  45. JAYDEEJOHN said:
    Last time they said 25%, and i point out, thats against their own chips, not Intels, they nailed it.
    Have you read up on BD?
    Check out dresden boys blog, good solid infos, some AMD doesnt want out, but hes caught on thru watching the patents, and his directions pretty much parallels AMDs, good stuff


    Who is "they" - not Randy Allen I trust :sol: .

    And yes I've read up on Bulldozer and a bit of Dresden boy's blog on what the arch is supposed to look like (IMO, John Fruehle posting as JF-AMD over on AMDZone and AMD is more knowledgeable since he's an insider). However the topic espoused by the honorable JennyH was that GF's 32nm process would be 40% improvement. Where did you see anything about architecture in her post??

    Besides, I would guess Intel has a response ready & waiting to go against BD - after all, they don't pay their expensive engineering teams to sit around playing pinochle :P.
  46. This info is (1) from Wiki and hence probably incorrect in some details, and (2) kinda stale since its 6 months old now:

    Quote:
    Details of Sandy Bridge's were leaked into the media in July 2009. The specifications are reported to be as follows:

    A0 Stepping
    2.8 GHz to 3.4 GHz clock speed with TurboBoost Technology disabled.
    3 GHz to 3.8 GHz clock speed with TurboBoost Technology enabled.
    Processing cores will feature Hyper-Threading Technology that is also present in Intel Nehalem-based processors, as well as Intel Pentium 4 processors.
    4 cores by default.
    Approximate 225 mm² die size by default.
    Without SSE: 8 DP GFLOPS/core (2 DP FP/clock), 32-64 DP GFLOPS per processor.
    With SSE: 32 DP GFLOPS/core (8 DP FP/clock), 128-256 DP GFLOPS/processor.
    128 KB L1 cache/core, (3 clocks).
    1 MB L2 cache/core, (9 clocks).
    16 MB shared L3 cache/DIE (25 clocks). This L3 cache will also be shared with the integrated graphic core.
    64 bytes cache line width.
    Integrated graphics core running at 1 GHz to 1.4 GHz.
    Integrated Memory Controller with maximum 25.6 GB/s bandwidth, supports DDR3-1600 dual channel RAM.
    256 bit/cycle Ring bus bandwidth. The ring bus connects the cores.
    Maximum Thermal Design Power (TDP) of just 85W by default.
    Release date is expected at Q1 2011.
    According to some PC Watch articles:[6][7]

    Sandy Bridge will be an evolutionary step from Core 2.
    Sandy Bridge will focus on power efficiency.
    Performance will be increased without a core size increase (similar to the Netburst to Core transition).
    The CPU core is scalable.
    Due to the small 32 nm process, the floating point unit is small compared to the rest of the core.
    Dynamic Turbo allows the CPU power to exceed the TDP value when the rest of the platform is relatively cool. The frequency gain can be up to 37% for one minute, and over 20% in most cases.
    Nehalem may stay at the server platform while Sandy Bridge is released for the mobile segments, which would split the markets into two CPU lines.
    Sandy Bridge's CPU and GPU are likely to be on one die (unlike the two-die approach of Nehalem).
    Because of the high-performing CPU and off-chip components, it may be necessary to improve bus interconnects. The internal bus is to be improved.
    The Sandy Bridge microarchitecture is also said to focus on the connections of the processor core.
    If the transition to 22 nm is difficult, then Sandy Bridge may go over three generations (Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, and another Bridge) as opposed to two with Nehalem and Core 2.
  47. So, in the end, it comes down to AMD catching up , going wider, and also having more FF for the SMT.
    Itll be interesting, especially since the last words there are about 22nm, and having to possibly postpone the next iteration right away, meaning all those well meaning engineers may have more tweaking to do, than creating?
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