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Intel & AMD fans: My Experiences With Them...

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a b à CPUs
January 18, 2010 12:05:08 AM

For some people, it is either black or white, up or down, night or day while for others it can be as mentioned before but is most likely differing shades of Grey, right. left, up, down, up-right, up-left, down-right, down-left, dawn and sunrise.

Over the course of the last few weeks I have endeavored to seek out and converse with fans from various camps. Some folks over at my native home (XCPUs) are in fact self confessed Intel and AMD fans. We have argued and debated over various subjects from the Intel/AMD Settlement, the FTC allegations and predominantly the comments made by Henri (Former AMD Executive).

Let's take the comments made by Henri Richard and the FTC allegations for example. Intel fans claim that AMDs lack of marketshare growth is due only to AMDs faults with regards to how AMD markets its products. Intel fans have used the comments by Henri in an attempt to strengthen their case.

On the other hand, AMD fans contend that Henri Richard is a disgruntled ex AMD executive who ought to be ignored. They also contend that AMD holds a large segment of the gaming market and that somehow this proves that they market their products well (they use the Steam Data here to make their case).

What we have here is Black and White Partisanship. Democrat vs. Republican... with us or against us mentality.

How hard is it to admit that AMD is quite poor when it comes to marketing AND that Intel participated in what could be construed as illegal activities in an attempt to thwart AMDs growth?

Why can it not be a little bit of both? Why must it only be one or the other?

That is what I wonder. Thoughts?
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2010 12:10:18 AM

Because you're dealing with irrational fools. Just like the irrational fools in dem vs rep thing you mentioned.
January 18, 2010 12:14:19 AM

ElMoIsEviL said:

On the other hand, AMD fans contend that Henri Richard is a disgruntled ex AMD executive who ought to be ignored.

As he wasn't an ex-AMD employee at the time of his emails, then he can't have been a disgruntled ex-AMD executive.

Quote:
They also contend that AMD holds a large segment of the gaming market and as such market their products well (they use the Steam Data here to make their case).

Which is a really stupid argument because it still shows AMD significantly behind Intel and it only relates to gaming, where it is likely you will have a younger less well off percentage of people participating, then is the case in the overall computer user base. So AMD's cheapness may well be working in their favour there, but market share is not the same as profit share.

Quote:

Intel participated in what could be construed as illegal activities in an attempt to thwart AMDs growth?

There is no doubt that Intel attempted to thwart AMD's growth, but there is still a lot of doubt if the means by which they did so was illegal.
Related resources
January 18, 2010 12:36:29 AM

eww relevant to the category and everything. not
flamebait thread.
:non:  this is really below you dewd - 1 respect point
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2010 12:40:24 AM

People seem to see things in black and white because it is easier.

Look at Democrats and Republicans. They fight each other so vehemently that neither of the parties give a damn about the American people. Also, their policies and beliefs tend to be completely off because the right course is in the middle or totally different.

Then add that into the blind faith that is so celebrated today. Today you are rewarded for faith to your respective religion, or lack thereof, and ridiculed for doubt even though faith without doubt it apathy. If you doubt and find the answer for you, yourself, rather than having it spoon fed to you then you can truly have faith in it. If you believe something that you were told was true from your family without doubt then you have faith in your family, nothing more.

Look at that nut Pat Roberson who says the recent crisis in Haiti is as a result of God's wrath for their supposed "pact with the devil". As insane, grotesque, and awful as that is, some people believe it.

Now lets examine the AMD vs Intel debate.

It starts with AMD. AMD is the underdog and Intel is easy to hate. Therefor AMD fans were inevitable. These AMD fans found reasons to support their underdog company, which in the face of Intel who is undoubtedly corrupt, they flourished.

Now Intel has garnered fans because of the AMD fans' opposition. Add that to the fact that a few years passed of almost undisputed Intel dominion. And you have rabid Intel fanboys, while the AMD fanboys made vain attempts to make up for AMD's shortcomings. Now you have a good product from AMD that can't match Intel in absolute performance but has plenty of power, especially considering how far behind SW is to HW, to do everything at a better price point. Now you have two very distinct sides that are understandable for which company's products are better:

AMD has most of the performance of Intel for a better price.

Intel has the absolute best performance, which while it doesn't make much of a difference now, it might later, might.

Hence, you have rabid fanboys.
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2010 12:54:33 AM

I don't know about you lot but I see in colour.
January 18, 2010 1:03:07 AM

this discusses cpus and components how?
January 18, 2010 1:05:17 AM

Here's my take.

We still like to think of ourselves a least subconsciously as belonging to Tribes. We have the Intel Tribe and the AMD Tribe. We also have the tribe that does not want to be affiliated with either tribe and only wants to take the best from both Tribes.

I think Intel has definitely pushed the limit as to what is legal in the form of competition with AMD. Because of that they are perceived as amoral and have performed illegal activities at least by government agencies. First Japan where Intel agreed to not do what they were doing as to competing but used the standard line that they still believed they acted inside the law. The came Korea which pretty much the same result but with a $25M fine added to it.

Now we come to the EU where Intel was certainly slapped hard by the commission and where Intel is pushing for a trial. Why would Intel do this. They already had to give up the $1.45 Billion into the EU hands. What do they gain buy this?

1) It would seem to indicate that they believe they can win and get some of the $1.45 Billion back from the EU.
2) Maybe it is a face thing. If they did not appeal the commissions fine then everyone would say they are guilty by implicit consent. This would open them up to a lot more lawsuits.

We then have the FTC and NY cases. The FTC wants to completely change how IP is controlled by a more dominate company to expand the competitive market by what I have read in the FTC statement and Intel's response. Similar to the NY case which is a basic re-hashing of the EU complaint.

Until we can see the actually documentations that each side plans to bring forth in the case and not what one side decided to disclose publicly we will stay polarized on this subject.

Both of the responses that Intel provide to the FTC and NY case had some heavy redaction going on. Makes you wonder what is being hidden? If it would sway public opinion one way or another prior to a trail commencing.

You can bet that Intel is going to be wanting a jury to be divided along lines that they feel will see all 3 cases in the most favorably light for themselves and the EU, FTC and NY will want the opposite.

I think we are all going to be needlessly spinning are wheels until one of these cases come to trial or more information is released by one side or the other.
January 18, 2010 1:22:16 AM

Context is important. Performance is important. Cost is important. In most scenarios power usage is important. Laws are important. Being satisfied with your purchase is important.

Add all this up to those who think PCs are very important, and is why we have what we have.
January 18, 2010 1:30:13 AM

I would say it is many behaviors and influences that make up this polar relationship. Many of these are already mentioned, but this what I can think of.

So you have the 2 sides that are based on technical details and personal preferences.

Youve got those that have historical loyalties, like ...amd gave me the performance and oc that I needed when I couldn't afford intel so I will always love amd.

Youve got those that view intel as the larger corporation with the cold stone face of money and power.

Young pc enthusiasts probably support what they read. How many recent stickies do you see about intel oc'ing compared to amd? how many have intel in there signatures? If I lived in a community where they only drove Hyundai why would I risk buying a Toyota if I had no real experience with it?

The consumer that buys their pcs from a local retailer often doesn't know what an AMD even is. That's simply marketing and market share.

For me personally Im not tied to either when it comes to which I will buy. I currently have 2 amd machines and I plan on buying a new cpu this spring and it will be an intel. I buy based on performance as long as the price is within my budget. That being said I would say my respect and pride is with AMD because of their history and the usability of the cpu for the consumer. Aside from that I support competition, I support the underdog in most cases, I look forward to advancement in technology and without the racing companies we wont see a lot of new tech.
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2010 1:38:21 AM

Hey Elmo, you are really reaching with this one...I mean, c'mon, really now...as if the Henri Richards comments thread wasn't bad enough...I might have to add this thread to the list of "The Stupidest posts/threads on this forum"...
January 18, 2010 1:40:23 AM

ok since were going to allow non component talk in a hardware not user section ill take it into an off topic arena

should monkeys throw blue pooh or green pooh? and should the quantum value of chocolate melted in sewage really equal pathetic threads like this or be of greater value?

Thats not even my peak abstract thinking its not even a start ill phase it up to absolutely incoherent abstract montages of words in protest of the favoritism shown to these purveyors of troll threads as opposed to the oft banned jenny for posting in the exact same context.

seems pretty sexist and bigoted to me and a clear allowance of tos violation by people purported to be maintaining not compromising said tos.
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2010 1:54:18 AM

verndewd said:
ok since were going to allow non component talk in a hardware not user section ill take it into an off topic arena

should monkeys throw blue pooh or green pooh? and should the quantum value of chocolate melted in sewage really equal pathetic threads like this or be of greater value?

Oh get off your high horse seriously.

You've made a ton of non-component related posts yourself (I seem to recall you making a ton of posts having to do with the AMd and Intel finances).

Threads which discuss quarterly profits are non-component related, threads which discuss Marketing are non-component related.

There are non-component related threads every single day in this section and nobody says a damn thing. The only difference with this one is that it intends to bridge the gap (from the threads currently being discussed). Usual threads are all about AMD Is the best or Intel Is the best (each side seeking to one up the other).

This thread isn't about that at all. What I am attempting to do is to ask that reasonable people challenge these behaviors. This is NOT a fanboi thread but rather an anti-fanboi thread. What I am asking here is for people to essentially stop and think before they post threads which only have the intent of pissing off the opposing side.

Any reasonable person knows that as soon as a tidbit of information is revealed (like the Henri Richard quotes) that posting such information without adding a bit of context or counterbalance will only results in a flame war.
January 18, 2010 1:59:44 AM

Maybe the 2 sides dont want a third?
January 18, 2010 2:03:44 AM

ElMoIsEviL said:
Oh get off your high horse seriously.

You've made a ton of non-component related posts yourself (I seem to recall you making a ton of posts having to do with the AMd and Intel finances).

Threads which discuss quarterly profits are non-component related, threads which discuss Marketing are non-component related.

There are non-component related threads every single day in this section and nobody says a damn thing. The only difference with this one is that it intends to bridge the gap (from the threads currently being discussed). Usual threads are all about AMD Is the best or Intel Is the best (each side seeking to one up the other).

This thread isn't about that at all. What I am attempting to do is to ask that reasonable people challenge these behaviors. This is NOT a fanboi thread but rather an anti-fanboi thread. What I am asking here is for people to essentially stop and think before they post threads which only have the intent of pissing off the opposing side.

Any reasonable person knows that as soon as a tidbit of information is revealed (like the Henri Richard quotes) that posting such information without adding a bit of context or counterbalance will only results in a flame war.

try the right section mr liberal you cant get on your high horse and then take advantage of a position that alienates jenny from doing the same.

That point of respect was the last one I had for you. there is nothing in you that bespeaks anything but self servitude, a slave to your own impish folly.
a b à CPUs
January 18, 2010 2:10:34 AM

somebody's going to get banned.......again
January 18, 2010 2:12:08 AM

ElMoIsEviL said:

This is NOT a fanboi thread but rather an anti-fanboi thread.


A little bit of self loathing? (i.e.,You do happen to be one of the biggest fanboys I've ever seen.)

ElMoIsEviL said:

What I am asking here is for people to essentially stop and think before they post threads which only have the intent of pissing off the opposing side.


If you do that your post count will go down a significant amount. Which would not be a bad thing.

a b à CPUs
January 18, 2010 2:13:19 AM

This topic has been closed by Randomizer

It's just going to be endless bickering.
January 18, 2010 2:15:26 AM

Look, this thread is verifiable by its own content.
When we side with only 1 direction by doing so, choosing only1 particular HW type,OEM type whatever, weve narrowed our choices, and essentually harmed ourself from the use of best choice whoever makes it.
Being a non fanboi opens the doors to a wider fullfillment of greater choice, and better reward
!