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Core i7 build $2100 budget

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November 1, 2009 12:39:16 AM

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: late november

BUDGET RANGE: $2100 before rebates

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: gaming, photoshop, school work

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: power supply (corsair 1000w), hard drives (dont need any storage drives but im open to high rpm drives and ssd's). OS, mouse, keyboard and monitor

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: newegg. unless there is a stellar deal elsewhere

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: US

PARTS PREFERENCES: no preferance, although i do like asus and evga

OVERCLOCKING: Yes

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Yes

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1920x1080 or 1900x600

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: no need to reccomend a case. i have my heart set on the cooler master atcs 840 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...[/url" target="_blank">
I also have 2 evga gtx 260s already. im considering buying another and running tri sli. suggestions are open to weather or not this is a good route to take.

More about : core build 2100 budget

November 1, 2009 12:45:52 AM

Welcome to the forum.

Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

OCZ Platinum 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2MH080G2C1 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC Internal
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Pioneer Black 8X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 8X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-ray
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-GP 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long life sleeve
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Arctic Silver 5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

There's an amazing build that fits in way under your budget.
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November 1, 2009 12:50:46 AM

hey thanks for the welcome :) 

so are you suggesting through not listing any video cards that i should just stay with the 260s for now?
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November 1, 2009 12:53:22 AM

There are advantages to getting a new one such as a 5870, but improved performance is not one of them. If you are worried about the extra heat and power consumption then a 5870 would be your best option (provided you can find one in stock).

XFX HD-587A-ZNF9 Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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November 1, 2009 12:53:42 AM

What kind of gaming you do? Like what games..? You want max settings?

$2100 is a large budget..you don't need this high seeing how your needs are not that demanding

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November 1, 2009 1:00:20 AM

By FAR the best value for a high-end PC is the following:

1) suitable 1156 Motherboard
2) i7-860
3) 4GB DDR3 1600MHz
4) 2x HD5850 1GB

Other:
1) Discrete audio card (perhaps X-Fi that comes with MOBO as PCIe addon)
2) CPU heatsink + 120mm fan
3) 120mm case fan (low flow)
4) speakers (M-Audio AV30 stereo OR Logitech Z-2300 2.1)
5) Velociraptor 300GB (Windows drive)
6) WD 1TB Green (second drive)
7) Corsair 750Watt PSU

Summary:
I do a lot of research on building systems. Personally, I like to also build around NOISE levels which is why I like the new HD5850 cards which idle at 26Watts which blows away previous cards. This is an awesome system. Learn about the CPU TURBO feature (don't just overclock and massively increase the power consumption and noise).

If you want bragging rights, don't just go for raw, theoretical power consumption. Feel good about getting the maximum bang for your buck and lowest noise for a high-end gaming rig.

Ignore SSD's for now. Also, invest a little of that cash burning a hole in your pocket on a good screen and audio. Most screens really suck. Here's an example of a pretty darn good monitor:
HP LP2475W H-IPS 24IN

(If you can get a good 19" CRT go for it. I still have my 19" Viewsonic with no issues running 1600x1200@75Hz. It has better colour and Contrast than any LCD in the world so until LCD is better and cheaper or OLED comes out and is priced correctly you can keep your LCD monitors and pry my CRT out of my cold, dead hands.)
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November 1, 2009 1:03:23 AM

overshocks said:
What kind of gaming you do? Like what games..? You want max settings?

$2100 is a large budget..you don't need this high seeing how your needs are not that demanding


well right now im playing borderlands a lot. I play Crysis every now and then. Also i want max settings at a 1920x1080 res. Cant help but say i also want bragging rights =p
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November 1, 2009 1:16:46 AM

photonboy said:
By FAR the best value for a high-end PC is the following:

1) suitable 1156 Motherboard
2) i7-860
3) 4GB DDR3 1600MHz
4) 2x HD5850 1GB

Other:
1) Discrete audio card (perhaps X-Fi that comes with MOBO as PCIe addon)
2) CPU heatsink + 120mm fan
3) 120mm case fan (low flow)
4) speakers (M-Audio AV30 stereo OR Logitech Z-2300 2.1)
5) Velociraptor 300GB (Windows drive)
6) WD 1TB Green (second drive)
7) Corsair 750Watt PSU

Summary:
I do a lot of research on building systems. Personally, I like to also build around NOISE levels which is why I like the new HD5850 cards which idle at 26Watts which blows away previous cards. This is an awesome system. Learn about the CPU TURBO feature (don't just overclock and massively increase the power consumption and noise).

If you want bragging rights, don't just go for raw, theoretical power consumption. Feel good about getting the maximum bang for your buck and lowest noise for a high-end gaming rig.

Ignore SSD's for now. Also, invest a little of that cash burning a hole in your pocket on a good screen and audio. Most screens really suck. Here's an example of a pretty darn good monitor:
HP LP2475W H-IPS 24IN

(If you can get a good 19" CRT go for it. I still have my 19" Viewsonic with no issues running 1600x1200@75Hz. It has better colour and Contrast than any LCD in the world so until LCD is better and cheaper or OLED comes out and is priced correctly you can keep your LCD monitors and pry my CRT out of my cold, dead hands.)


1. dont really want to go with the p55 due to the lack of pcie lanes and the fact that i will be locked out of the gulftown procs in the futture.

2. noise isnt an issue for me at all. could be loud as a jet ( haha and believe me my current setup is) and it wouldnt bother me. i always have music on or im using my noise canceling head set.

3. i already have a 24" samsung so no need for a monitor. not to mention that HP is $540 o_O

4 im a pretty die hard nvidia guy so its unlikely you could sway me to the red team

5. i already have the 1000w corsair psu and it rocks :) 
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November 1, 2009 1:23:38 AM

^I'm inclined to agree with photon boy but only to a certain extent. If the OP goes with the 1156 route he won't have as much upgrability and its considered a mainstream socket so seeing how he wants braggin rights, going the 1366 route would automatically put him into the highend range :) 
-Also I agree with the SSD, SSD won't increase gaming performance or stuff like that, apps and boot times will just be faster. (But i like SSD's anyways, I own one in one of my PC's and its pretty damn good)
-And about the screen, modern LCD's give color practically just as good as CRT's and plasmas do especially the expensive ones. The difference is almost unoticable. Samsung i'd say is the big game player here, i saw one of thier LCD's and it gave perfect Black Colors. And if you leave your CRT on to long its going to have burn-ins and it takes up way more power and space and is ancient

================================
Now to the OP:
Seeing as you have a pretty large budget and you already have like 70% of the critical parts you need (PSU,OS,Graphics,Keyboard,Mouse)...I think you can go a bit large on this build.
First of I would get the Intel Core i7 975 Extreme Edition
^Reason is that unlike the regular Core i7's which have 4.8GT/s QPI's this one has 6.4GT/s. Plus you can overclock this processor like thier no tomorrow and its the most powerful consumer grade one available...good deal i'd say.
Next, Sell your two GTX260's (They are still worth a lot) and replace them with two ATI 5870's or wait until the Nvidia Fermi Cards come out which should be this year and buy some high end's of those cards.
And for your MOBO get an EVGA EX58 Classified.
And since you have plently left over money, fit an Intel X25m SSD into there and you will truly and ultimatly have real and undeniable Braggin Rights. YOu will be able to max out any game I believe at that resolution.
And overclock your CPU to 4GHz at least.

HAVE FUN :) 
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November 1, 2009 1:43:55 AM

blackhawk1928 said:

Now to the OP:
Seeing as you have a pretty large budget and you already have like 70% of the critical parts you need (PSU,OS,Graphics,Keyboard,Mouse)...I think you can go a bit large on this build.
First of I would get the Intel Core i7 975 Extreme Edition
^Reason is that unlike the regular Core i7's which have 4.8GT/s QPI's this one has 6.4GT/s. Plus you can overclock this processor like thier no tomorrow and its the most powerful consumer grade one available...good deal i'd say.
Next, Sell your two GTX260's (They are still worth a lot) and replace them with two ATI 5870's or wait until the Nvidia Fermi Cards come out which should be this year and buy some high end's of those cards.
And for your MOBO get an EVGA EX58 Classified.
And since you have plently left over money, fit an Intel X25m SSD into there and you will truly and ultimatly have real and undeniable Braggin Rights. YOu will be able to max out any game I believe at that resolution.
And overclock your CPU to 4GHz at least.

HAVE FUN :) 


alright, this all sounds absolutely awesome, just a few things.

one has there been any announced release on the fermi cards? also i would imagine that they would be extremely expensive and could even stress the somewhat large budget that i have allowed my self
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November 1, 2009 2:24:37 AM

i dont agree with blackhawk
1. i know that all the recent 1336 cpu's have unlocked qpi
source: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/exclusive_ret... and i also have a 920
2. i have the i7 920 d0 step and a have achieved a 4.5ghz oc with it no problem running the qpi a 6.4GT/s on air
3. keep the 260's and save your money, but if your really itching for bragging rights get 2 ati 5870's
4. go for intel ssd drives, they wont really help in gaming but will definitely make you computer feel faster
5. buy your self a real nice pair of of headphones or speakers and get a soundblaster titanium sound card. i know there are better sound cards but i believe that these are the best for gaming

i would only get a i7 975 if your doing extreme water cooling or any thing above that. but for air get the 920 or 950
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November 1, 2009 1:26:14 PM

^You will be able to overclock a 975 Extreme far higher then a 920 since you already have it way higher on stock settings. from 2.66 to 3.33 is a pretty big difference. Plus a couple years from now, the 920 is going to be worth dirt while the 975 is going to be worth a lot. Sell your 260s while they are still worth something and wait for the fermi cards which I should be released Q4 of this year. So they should be out within like 2 months or less :)  Patience will pay off. Also I think fermi cards, just like the ATI 5 series will have the very highend cards and the the more mainstream type cards so I think they will be able to fit in your budget.
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November 1, 2009 3:01:22 PM

I strongly disagree with blackhawk, I think his route is very poor.Why get the 975 now? Save that money and get the 920 now. Overclock the 920.

the op said "1. dont really want to go with the p55 due to the lack of pcie lanes and the fact that i will be locked out of the gulftown procs in the futture. "

so he wants the gulftown in the future.
the 975 extreme is $999.99 usd right now. when the gulftown comes out it'll be around the same price with 6 cores physically and 12 threads.
which means it owns the 975 extreme in term of cores already, and obviously the performance will be greater than 975.

save the 1000 bucks now and get the gulftown when it comes out, if he really wants the gulftown, it comes out 2010 so not that long to wait.

blackhawk your theory works only if gulftown doesn't come out. thus your theory is broken now.

by the way, yes the 975 will overclock higher than 920. but the performance isn't that much apart. is 975 worth 1000 bucks? no. Does it offer the extra performance of 720 dollars? nope. not much of a performance gap.
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November 1, 2009 3:31:44 PM

^Maybe you are right...but if the OP has the money then why not :)  If he wants save then 920 would be a good option. However I really don't see a need in gultown because to this date many applications don't even support quad core CPu's let alone hexacored ones. If he has the money for both then I recommend both, if not then not. I don't have a theory, I am just recommend the most expensive parts he can afford.
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November 1, 2009 3:45:10 PM

highest clocked i7 920 is 5.62ghz

highest clocked i7 975 is 6.15ghz is it worth the cost
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November 1, 2009 4:24:18 PM

obsidian86 said:
highest clocked i7 920 is 5.62ghz

highest clocked i7 975 is 6.15ghz is it worth the cost


highest clocked i7 920 is only 5.62? on what ln and helium? i expected more? any links.
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November 1, 2009 4:26:56 PM

blackhawk1928 said:
^Maybe you are right...but if the OP has the money then why not :)  If he wants save then 920 would be a good option. However I really don't see a need in gultown because to this date many applications don't even support quad core CPu's let alone hexacored ones. If he has the money for both then I recommend both, if not then not. I don't have a theory, I am just recommend the most expensive parts he can afford.


You just killed your previous posts by saying
"However I really don't see a need in gultown because to this date many applications don't even support quad core CPu's let alone hexacored ones."

Then what's the point getting the 975 here. when the 920 isn't even relevant then.

Either way, no point in getting 975 when gulftown is coming out 2010. Plus as I mentioned before the peformance gap before 920 and 975 isn't worth the EXTRA 720 dollars.
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November 1, 2009 4:28:55 PM



here done on ln2
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November 1, 2009 4:36:32 PM

^interesting.
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November 1, 2009 5:05:14 PM

yea don't get the 975 even if you have money to waste. For 1366 the 920 is the only way to go. There are so many other things you could do with $700. The dollar to performance ratio is sooooo bad for the 975. 920 is a much smarter and more logical decision.
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November 1, 2009 5:10:58 PM

overshocks said:
You just killed your previous posts by saying
"However I really don't see a need in gultown because to this date many applications don't even support quad core CPu's let alone hexacored ones."

Then what's the point getting the 975 here. when the 920 isn't even relevant then.

Either way, no point in getting 975 when gulftown is coming out 2010. Plus as I mentioned before the peformance gap before 920 and 975 isn't worth the EXTRA 720 dollars.


I am not getting into a forum fight with you! You are right...This is opinon based anyway so lets move on.
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November 1, 2009 5:52:27 PM

alright so i have come to this conclusion...im gonna get the 920 and use the extra money to build one hell of a water cooling loop...opinions?
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November 1, 2009 6:06:57 PM

smoogs12 said:
alright so i have come to this conclusion...im gonna get the 920 and use the extra money to build one hell of a water cooling loop...opinions?


Have you done watercooling before? I suggest you read some guides/articles on it. It's quite complicated if you've never done it before.
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November 1, 2009 6:16:07 PM

overshocks said:
Have you done watercooling before? I suggest you read some guides/articles on it. It's quite complicated if you've never done it before.


i have a loop right now. its only cooling my cpu though. never done a big multi block/rad loop before
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November 1, 2009 6:53:47 PM

OK, so you need:

Case: Antec 1200 or CM HAF 932 are the consensus Fav's ....add the optional fans.

MoBo: Since you have the budget room, the Asus Rampage II Extreme is an alternative to the P6T Deluxe V2

Bling: ASUS Model OC Station ROG OC Controller (only works on RoG Boards) makes fine fan controller and allows you to tweak OC while booted to Windows (except memory) and looks very cool :) 

Intel Core i7 920 - Save the cash for next year's goodies from Intel.

GFX - Perhaps a dedicated PhysX card in that 3rd slot ?

Memory - Mushkin Redline (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 Model 998692 (has Ascent cooling and w/ 6-7-6-18 timings)

Card Reader - you're a phot bug so AFT XM-35U BLACK USB 2.0 Kiosk Card Reader (3.5")

OD - Plextor Blk 8X BD 16X DVD 48X CD SATA BD Combo Model PX-B320SA w/LS OEM

HSF - Prolimatech Shadow w/ IC Diamond 7 Carat Thermal Compound

SSD - Intel 160 GB G2
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November 1, 2009 6:58:02 PM

JackNaylorPE said:

GFX - Perhaps a dedicated PhysX card in that 3rd slot ?


i was thinking about this, however i was unsure of the gains it would show. Has anyone seen any benches that prove this to be beneficiary? ALso how many games even support physx?
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November 1, 2009 7:09:54 PM

smoogs12 said:
i was thinking about this, however i was unsure of the gains it would show. Has anyone seen any benches that prove this to be beneficiary? ALso how many games even support physx?


A 3rd gfx card just for physx isn't relevant unless you play a game that needs a lot of work in physx.

here's a list of physx games:
note- not all are pc games
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_all.html
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November 1, 2009 7:20:49 PM

overshocks said:
A 3rd gfx card just for physx isn't relevant unless you play a game that needs a lot of work in physx.

here's a list of physx games:
note- not all are pc games
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_all.html


yeah so basically its not worth it at all. is tri sli scaling better now with i7? i might just pick up a third 260
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November 1, 2009 7:26:37 PM

I suggest you getting 2x5850 since your monitor is 1920x1080. It can pretty much max out any game.

260s arent worth it, when you can get 4870s at a lower price.
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November 1, 2009 7:32:02 PM

overshocks said:
I suggest you getting 2x5850 since your monitor is 1920x1080. It can pretty much max out any game.
260s arent worth it, when you can get 4870s at a lower price.

smoogs12 said:
I also have 2 evga gtx 260s already.

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November 1, 2009 7:32:07 PM

overshocks said:
I suggest you getting 2x5850 since your monitor is 1920x1080. It can pretty much max out any game.

260s arent worth it, when you can get 4870s at a lower price.


well seeing as i alredy have 2 260s switching to 4870s would be the more expensive option. also not saying i wouldnt use 5850s but where on earth would i find one of them, never mind two of them
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November 1, 2009 7:40:37 PM



Good catch there jbakerlent. Didn't see that
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November 1, 2009 7:41:41 PM

smoogs12 said:
well seeing as i alredy have 2 260s switching to 4870s would be the more expensive option. also not saying i wouldnt use 5850s but where on earth would i find one of them, never mind two of them


I apologize, I skimmed through your first post too quick, didn't realized you have 2 260s already. So never mind what I've said.
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November 1, 2009 7:44:59 PM

^its cool

so what do we think about picking up another 260?
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November 1, 2009 7:45:58 PM

smoogs12 said:
^its cool

so what do we think about picking up another 260?


Performance wouldn't help much with 3x260. Maybe a 10-25% increase in fps. I doubt anything higher. Also, you would need to overclock the i7 920 or else it'll become a bottleneck for 3x260.
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November 1, 2009 7:50:49 PM

overshocks said:
Performance wouldn't help much with 3x260. Maybe a 10-25% increase in fps. I doubt anything higher. Also, you would need to overclock the i7 920 or else it'll become a bottleneck for 3x260.


so lets say i get the 920 up to 4ghz, you think i would still only see a 25% increase?
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November 1, 2009 7:51:55 PM

smoogs12 said:
so lets say i get the 920 up to 4ghz, you think i would still only see a 25% increase?


Google around see if there's articles. To me getting 3x260 is too much. You're fine with 2x260, unless you want MAX settings on crysis with 1920x1080

Just assemble your computer first, if the 2x260 can't do it for you, get another one.
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November 1, 2009 8:16:02 PM

Well I am pretty sure at 1920x1080 2x260s can max it out. Thats basically a GTX295. Plus if get a really good RAM with low CL timings and high frequencies then that will also be a big plus for your performance.
But as I said earlier, GTX260's are still worth a good amount of money so if you sell them both and use that money to buy a single powerful GPU (like one of the fermi cards) then you will have a DX11 ready card and one that can most likley murder your 260's. Most likley after Fermi come out, your GTX260's will be worth dirt since usually when new models come out the older ones go down in price. So sell them quickly and just wait to buy a damn good GPU within the next 2 months or less. This is just an option. Buying a 3rd 260 is can do but I as a personal opinion wouldn't reccommend it.
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November 1, 2009 8:18:21 PM

blackhawk1928 said:
Well I am pretty sure at 1920x1080 2x260s can max it out. Thats basically a GTX295. Plus if get a really good RAM with low CL timings and high frequencies then that will also be a big plus for your performance.
But as I said earlier, GTX260's are still worth a good amount of money so if you sell them both and use that money to buy a single powerful GPU (like one of the fermi cards) then you will have a DX11 ready card and one that can most likley murder your 260's. Most likley after Fermi come out, your GTX260's will be worth dirt since usually when new models come out the older ones go down in price. So sell them quickly and just wait to buy a damn good GPU within the next 2 months or less. This is just an option. Buying a 3rd 260 is can do but I as a personal opinion wouldn't reccommend it.


I agree with you blackhawk to some extend, but where's he going to sell the 2x 260. Ebay? Quite a hassle. Just keep them and play with them a little longer.. umm say half to one year.
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November 1, 2009 8:21:20 PM

blackhawk1928 said:
Well I am pretty sure at 1920x1080 2x260s can max it out. Thats basically a GTX295. Plus if get a really good RAM with low CL timings and high frequencies then that will also be a big plus for your performance.
But as I said earlier, GTX260's are still worth a good amount of money so if you sell them both and use that money to buy a single powerful GPU (like one of the fermi cards) then you will have a DX11 ready card and one that can most likley murder your 260's. Most likley after Fermi come out, your GTX260's will be worth dirt since usually when new models come out the older ones go down in price. So sell them quickly and just wait to buy a damn good GPU within the next 2 months or less. This is just an option. Buying a 3rd 260 is can do but I as a personal opinion wouldn't reccommend it.


are you saying that i should hold off on buying any of the current nvidia cards? cause i was thinking of possibly doing sli 285s too.
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November 1, 2009 8:21:38 PM

Yes it might be a big hassle to sell on EBay but the money he can still get from them ought to be his best motivation for it. And if he wants a good DX11 Nvidia 300s card then this his way to go, if he doesn't care about having the latest and greatest then keeping his 260s is his best option as they still give excellent performance.
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November 1, 2009 8:28:09 PM

blackhawk1928 said:
Yes it might be a big hassle to sell on EBay but the money he can still get from them ought to be his best motivation for it. And if he wants a good DX11 Nvidia 300s card then this his way to go, if he doesn't care about having the latest and greatest then keeping his 260s is his best option as they still give excellent performance.


^agree
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November 1, 2009 8:28:32 PM

smoogs12 said:
are you saying that i should hold off on buying any of the current nvidia cards? cause i was thinking of possibly doing sli 285s too.


no point doing sli with 285s when the 5850 is cheaper.
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November 1, 2009 8:31:12 PM

overshocks said:
no point doing sli with 285s when the 5850 is cheaper.


but will i be able to find 2 of them in about 2 1/2 weeks?
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November 1, 2009 8:32:46 PM

Over the next 2 1/2 weeks I would bet they would be in stock somewhere for some length of time.
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November 1, 2009 8:36:18 PM

smoogs12 said:
but will i be able to find 2 of them in about 2 1/2 weeks?


285 is more expensive than 5850 by what 70 bucks? and 5850 still performs better? nvidia needs to step up its game and stop playing the fanboy game

i'm sure you can find one in about 2 1/2 weeks, go around sites not just newegg
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November 1, 2009 8:43:31 PM

overshocks said:
285 is more expensive than 5850 by what 70 bucks? and 5850 still performs better? nvidia needs to step up its game and stop playing the fanboy game

i'm sure you can find one in about 2 1/2 weeks, go around sites not just newegg


let me just go on the record and say that i would LOVE to use 5850s but i just dont know if i can find a pair

what sites do you suggest other than tigerdirect, compusa, zipzoomfly, buy.com and amazon. are there any less well knowns that are reputable.
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November 1, 2009 8:57:57 PM

smoogs12 said:
let me just go on the record and say that i would LOVE to use 5850s but i just dont know if i can find a pair

what sites do you suggest other than tigerdirect, compusa, zipzoomfly, buy.com and amazon. are there any less well knowns that are reputable.


well you pretty much listed them all.
umm microcenter?
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November 1, 2009 9:01:21 PM

overshocks said:
well you pretty much listed them all.
umm microcenter?


haha oh. i was hoping that there was more that i didnt know about.
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!