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Need Help with Purchase

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November 10, 2009 11:15:21 PM

My husband went ahead and bought me a computer for Xmas. He just told me about it. It is an Alienware. My concern is he got a dual nvidia geforce gxt 295 instead of the dual ati 5870. I know that ati supports directx 11. Should I change it? This is an investment and I don't want him to spend that much money on something that will have to be upgraded soon. I am so unsure about what card to get. Please any help or opinions would be great.

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November 10, 2009 11:24:36 PM

gamermom said:
My husband went ahead and bought me a computer for Xmas. He just told me about it. It is an Alienware. My concern is he got a dual nvidia geforce gxt 295 instead of the dual ati 5870. I know that ati supports directx 11. Should I change it? This is an investment and I don't want him to spend that much money on something that will have to be upgraded soon. I am so unsure about what card to get. Please any help or opinions would be great.


simple. it's all about physics feature. nvidia's card are all hardware support physical engine. which radeon only support it in software like directx 11 but non of any game that have such feature yet. plus it gets when massive object appear while 295 has no such issue and less relying on processor to do the physical work so your husband is smart by pick 295 instead of 5870. he's the true gamer
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November 11, 2009 12:50:03 AM

Really? Wow! I have been reading online about the ATI and it seemed everyone thought it was better. I guess not. So you don't think it would be something that would have to upgraded anytime soon? Here are the stats of my the comp.

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ i7 975 3.33GHz (8MB Cache) Extreme Edition Quad Core Processor
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
VIDEO CARD Dual 1.8GB NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 295 - SLI® Enabled
MEMORY 12GB DDR3 1333MHz (3x 4GB) Tri Channel Memory
HARD DRIVE 640GB - SATA-II, 3Gb/s, 7,200RPM, 16MB Cache HDD
OPTICAL DRIVE 6X Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Reads and Writes to DVD/CD/BD)
SOUND CARD Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium
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November 11, 2009 3:58:45 PM

Anyone else? The money is not the issue with the comp. I am more concerned with longevity. Will the Radeon dual 5870 have a longer shelf life than the nvidea dual 295?
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a b U Graphics card
November 11, 2009 4:27:54 PM

Wow, that is false-misleading info there Mr. Cheese .... :pfff: 

At this point dual 295's is not a good choice regardless of Nvidias physics. The 5870 is a next-gen GPU that will last 3-4 years down the road without having to upgrade. The GTX 295's are great also but they are simple last-gen GPU's that will lose driver support much quicker than any 5xxx series will and for the amount of money he will spend adding dual 295's he should save a bit by swapping them for dual 5870's. At this moment the GTX 295 is maybe 5% faster in some games but soon that will all change once new more mature drivers come out. The 5870 is DX 11 ready, consumes less power, eye-finity ready, produces less heat and soon will obliterate any GPU Nvidia has to offer (until Fermi comes out). So the best option is to get dual 5870's.

Here is a couple of benchmarks (tests) so you can see for yourself :

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-r...

The lifespan of the 5870 is superior since it just came out, the GTX 295 will be replaced by a newer GPU in a couple of months...
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November 11, 2009 4:58:51 PM

Thank you. That is what I thought. My husband isn't the gamer I am. I have always been a Nvidia fan but it seems ATI has done better this time. I don't really care what brand it is as long as it will last me the next few years. I am gonna call and change the comp to the dual ATI 5870's. I was considering waiting to see what Nvidia was going to come out with but I am sure it will be similar but cost much more.
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a b U Graphics card
November 11, 2009 5:07:31 PM

Well I am going to be honest with you, the GTX 295's are very powerfull cards, but they do not stand a chance vs. the 5870's. They are sold out everywhere, if you get your hands on one you can sell it on e-bay for 100.00%+ more than what you paid for. And like you said, you are more concerned with the longevity of the card. Nvidia won't have anything available till next year and we still do not know the exact date....Another thing I wanted to point out is the fact that with such a system you should me making sure you get an SSD instead of a regular 7,200RPM hard drive. That will be your bottleneck as far as overall performance goes.
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November 11, 2009 5:16:56 PM

Ok I am little lost. How would I do that? What would I change? Is that the same thing as a RAID drive?
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a b U Graphics card
November 11, 2009 5:36:29 PM

Raid is when you add 2 or more drives together for either more performance or better security. Here are a few examples of an SSD :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

When you are customizing your PC you can choose from a regular drive or SSD. It's there you just have to look closely =)



If money is not an issue then try getting the 256GB SSD and an extra 1TB 7,200RPM drive. this way you can have the OS on the SSD and all your storage files on the regular drive.
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November 11, 2009 5:41:34 PM

2018059,9,446940 said:
Raid is when you add 2 or more drives together for either more performance or better security. Here are a few examples of an SSD :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

When you are customizing your PC you can choose from a regular drive or SSD. It's there you just have to look closely =)[/quotemsg

Ah ok. Thanks for the info. Is Raid a good thing for a gaming PC? The option is availbe for this comp?

so it would be

either
1.2TB RAID 0 (2x 640GB SATA-II, 7,200 RPM, 16MB Cache HDDs)
or
HARD DRIVE 640GB - SATA-II, 3Gb/s, 7,200RPM, 16MB Cache HDD
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a b U Graphics card
November 11, 2009 5:47:55 PM

You are better off with the SSD and a secondary drive (7,200 RPM) as opposed to a Raid array. In this case the RAID option is for the user that cannot afford an SSD or needs more space than what an SSD can provide. The SSD will make your PC boot faster and your load times will be shorter, if you can live without that then get the dual 640's in RAID0 or RAID1. Here is a better explanation :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundant_array_of_indepen...

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November 11, 2009 6:28:17 PM

Well they will only let me change the graphics card. My system now is

Cosmic Black, Alienware Area-51 Chassis
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ i7 975 3.33GHz (8MB Cache) Extreme Edition Quad Core Processor
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
VIDEO CARD Dual 1GB GDDR5 ATI Radeon™ HD 5870 CrossfireX™ Enabled
MEMORY 12GB DDR3 1333MHz (3x 4GB) Tri Channel Memory
HARD DRIVE 640GB - SATA-II, 3Gb/s, 7,200RPM, 16MB Cache HDD
OPTICAL DRIVE 6X Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Reads and Writes to DVD/CD/BD)
SOUND CARD Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium

What do you think? I can't cancel the order. My only other option would be to return it when it arrives and start again. Does this seem like a system with longevity as it? I appreciate you help. Thanks
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a b U Graphics card
November 11, 2009 6:54:54 PM

You don't need to cancel the order, I would just call and have them swap the 640 for a better option. The CS dept can help you choose what you need, they will go into detail and answer any questions you have.
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November 11, 2009 7:02:23 PM

OvrClkr said:
You don't need to cancel the order, I would just call and have them swap the 640 for a better option. The CS dept can help you choose what you need, they will go into detail and answer any questions you have.



Yeah I tried that they said no all the parts are ordered and they weren't even supposed to let me change the graphics card because it was less money therefore a downgrade. So now I don't know what to do.
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a b U Graphics card
November 11, 2009 7:07:32 PM

WHAT? Alienware denied a request after you spent all that money? I have never seen anything like this. They don't order the parts, they have them in staock and build the PC shortly after you order, same as DELL. Alienware/DELL are same company. I would cancel the order and make you purchase elseware. Is there a reason you went with Alienware?
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November 11, 2009 7:14:19 PM

OvrClkr said:
WHAT? Alienware denied a request after you spent all that money? I have never seen anything like this. They don't order the parts, they have them in staock and build the PC shortly after you order, same as DELL. Alienware/DELL are same company. I would cancel the order and make you purchase elseware. Is there a reason you went with Alienware?


My husband has a dell computer he likes so he got me an Alienware. I can't cancel at this point talked to 3 people including a manager. They said my option is to return once I get it. I tried to expain my reasons but they also said I was making a mistake the other video card is better it is more expensive. So now will all the credit on hold and no way to cancel I have no idea what to do. Keep it or not. So does the HD choice my hubby made gimp my comp? Does it screw with its longevity?
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a b U Graphics card
November 11, 2009 7:20:41 PM

Not really, you are fine. Later on if you need another drive you can add one. But as far as AW not granting your request, that is just unnaceptable. The reason I ask "Why Alienware?" is due to you having better options with other companies like Cyberpower or Ibuypower. But if its a gift and it's "take it or leave it" then I guess you should just go ahead with your order and you should be fine.
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November 12, 2009 12:25:19 AM

OvrClkr said:
Not really, you are fine. Later on if you need another drive you can add one. But as far as AW not granting your request, that is just unnaceptable. The reason I ask "Why Alienware?" is due to you having better options with other companies like Cyberpower or Ibuypower. But if its a gift and it's "take it or leave it" then I guess you should just go ahead with your order and you should be fine.



Yeah well I tried to call back again and they said it would cost them money if I changed my order anymore and that it has already gone into production. Which makes no sense to me because earlier they told me they had to order parts. My husband isn't happy either. So I think we are gonna return it when it arrives and try someplace else.
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November 12, 2009 1:31:18 AM

gamermom said:
Yeah well I tried to call back again and they said it would cost them money if I changed my order anymore and that it has already gone into production. Which makes no sense to me because earlier they told me they had to order parts. My husband isn't happy either. So I think we are gonna return it when it arrives and try someplace else.



just stick with it......radeon 5870 does not have physx and when physx turn on it will be extemely laggy. plus fermi is coming out you can just purchase it and upgrade the part. no necessary change or return the pc.

OvrClkr said:
Wow, that is false-misleading info there Mr. Cheese .... :pfff: 


i dont want to start a war here amd fan boy, i was trying to help.

does 5870 providing "physx" feature? no! as many game demanding physx getting a radeon would mean no "physics" i hate to say this but that is the reason i dislike amd so much because of you.
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November 12, 2009 1:48:48 AM

So you don't think it will be an issue for gaming having a

HARD DRIVE 640GB - SATA-II, 3Gb/s, 7,200RPM, 16MB Cache HDD

instead of a

1.2TB RAID 0 (2x 640GB SATA-II, 7,200 RPM, 16MB Cache HDDs)
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November 12, 2009 1:56:08 AM

gamermom said:
So you don't think it will be an issue for gaming having a

HARD DRIVE 640GB - SATA-II, 3Gb/s, 7,200RPM, 16MB Cache HDD

instead of a

1.2TB RAID 0 (2x 640GB SATA-II, 7,200 RPM, 16MB Cache HDDs)


mostly i do not recommand ppl to have multiple hard drive. it will hog processor resource that you will never imagine when saving or transfering file. i'd advise you to have solo instead of twin or more hard drive to conserve the performance.(quote: multiple i/o devise are the killer for the performance)

PS: if you insist to have this spec then you'd have to prepare a xeon to handle it
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November 12, 2009 7:04:35 AM

Well I got a phone call from CS about my call earlier. I was told that once a order is placed it goes straight to production and can't be changed or canceled. Which makes no sense to me because the have cancellation and modification department. They also said they shouldn't of even allowed the graphics card change. Oh and the best part if I return the maching I will get a 15% restocking fee. I am very upset and now I have no idea what I am gonna do. Will the hard drive play current games and future games well? Is there a big performance difference between the two? Any advice would be great. Because of the restocking fee my husband wants to keep the maching as it. I hate Dell/Alienware and would never buy from them again!
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a b U Graphics card
November 12, 2009 2:03:00 PM

cheesesubs said:
just stick with it......radeon 5870 does not have physx and when physx turn on it will be extemely laggy. plus fermi is coming out you can just purchase it and upgrade the part. no necessary change or return the pc.



i dont want to start a war here amd fan boy, i was trying to help.

does 5870 providing "physx" feature? no! as many game demanding physx getting a radeon would mean no "physics" i hate to say this but that is the reason i dislike amd so much because of you.


Look, I am a fanboy of EVERYTHING that has to do with PC's... Meaning I don't take sides, I am also waiting on Fermi myself... If you were educated enough you would know that physics is not needed to play a game, it just enhances several objects. If Physics was a must for every user than ATI would not be selling thier new GPU's like hotcakes. Once OpenCL comes out it will support Physx on both ATI and Nvidia so your statement makes no sense. I would suggest that before you post something you should make sure what you are talking about.

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a b U Graphics card
November 12, 2009 2:15:08 PM

gamermom said:
Well I got a phone call from CS about my call earlier. I was told that once a order is placed it goes straight to production and can't be changed or canceled. Which makes no sense to me because the have cancellation and modification department. They also said they shouldn't of even allowed the graphics card change. Oh and the best part if I return the maching I will get a 15% restocking fee. I am very upset and now I have no idea what I am gonna do. Will the hard drive play current games and future games well? Is there a big performance difference between the two? Any advice would be great. Because of the restocking fee my husband wants to keep the maching as it. I hate Dell/Alienware and would never buy from them again!


Well first off I would talk to a manager and explain your case. This way they might waive the restocking fee if you do decide to return the PC. Personally I would not worry about the hard-drive issue since it will be the slowest part of your PC but it should not cause any severe bottleneck. Another thing you can do is install a faster drive later on if you see the need. The reason I suggested an SSD is die to the overall pricetag of the system. Normally when someone is going to spend over 3k on a system they make sure it has at least one SSD and secondary drive for storage. This way you can install the operating system on the SSD and all your other files on the secondary making your boot and loading times much quicker.
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November 12, 2009 2:26:45 PM

OvrClkr said:
Look, I am a fanboy of EVERYTHING that has to do with PC's... Meaning I don't take sides, I am also waiting on Fermi myself... If you were educated enough you would know that physics is not needed to play a game, it just enhances several objects. If Physics was a must for every user than ATI would not be selling thier new GPU's like hotcakes. Once OpenCL comes out it will support Physx on both ATI and Nvidia so your statement makes no sense. I would suggest that before you post something you should make sure what you are talking about.


first, just how many game that support that feature? and how many people would willing to play these new game when older game are more popular than newer game?

both opencl and dx11 are software acceleration for phyiscs. which it is takes on processor resource rather that gpu doing itself. software supports are never be a choice than hardware build-in. just remeber back to the how nvidia pwn 3dfx in to dirt with hardware T&L and 3dfx was massively rely on directx that bring cpu resource to accelerate the the game. as long as amd dont provide their own physics it will be their undoing.
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November 12, 2009 3:21:58 PM

gamermom said:
My husband went ahead and bought me a computer for Xmas. He just told me about it. It is an Alienware. My concern is he got a dual nvidia geforce gxt 295 instead of the dual ati 5870. I know that ati supports directx 11. Should I change it? This is an investment and I don't want him to spend that much money on something that will have to be upgraded soon. I am so unsure about what card to get. Please any help or opinions would be great.


the HD5870 sucks bad. Get the GTX295 hands down! No doubt thats the smartest deal! Nothing beats a good old GTX295 ^^
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a b U Graphics card
November 12, 2009 3:51:27 PM

okini said:
the HD5870 sucks bad. Get the GTX295 hands down! No doubt thats the smartest deal! Nothing beats a good old GTX295 ^^


I guess im done with this thread, I have never heard anyone stating that the 5870 sucks "bad" other than you. It's a next-gen GPU that to this date has earned the most awards for most advanced GPU vs. it's counterparts. Of course Nvidia has a trick up their sleeve with their next-gen series as well but at this point if someone is about to purchase a High-End PC and with dual 295's as opposed to dual 5870's that is just crazy IMO. I guess you are all entilitled to you own opinion ;) 
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November 12, 2009 4:01:58 PM

OvrClkr said:
Well first off I would talk to a manager and explain your case. This way they might waive the restocking fee if you do decide to return the PC. Personally I would not worry about the hard-drive issue since it will be the slowest part of your PC but it should not cause any severe bottleneck. Another thing you can do is install a faster drive later on if you see the need. The reason I suggested an SSD is die to the overall pricetag of the system. Normally when someone is going to spend over 3k on a system they make sure it has at least one SSD and secondary drive for storage. This way you can install the operating system on the SSD and all your other files on the secondary making your boot and loading times much quicker.



Well I called again and ask to speak to the boss of the manager I was speaking will and they allowed me to change it here are the new specs. I am very happy now. And FYI new policy in the last 6 months no changes or modifications allowed even though they have those departments. Anyway here is the system. Is 1 TB going to be enought I was debating between that and the 1.5?

Cosmic Black, Alienware Area-51 Chassis
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ i7 975 3.33GHz (8MB Cache) Extreme Edition Quad Core Processor
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
VIDEO CARD Dual 1GB GDDR5 ATI Radeon™ HD 5870 CrossfireX™ Enabled
MEMORY 12GB DDR3 1333MHz (3x 4GB) Tri Channel Memory
HARD DRIVE 256GB SSD - Solid State Drive
ADDITIONAL HARD DRIVE 1TB - SATA-II, 3Gb/s, 7,200RPM, 32MB Cache HDD
OPTICAL DRIVE 6X Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Reads and Writes to DVD/CD/BD)
SOUND CARD Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium
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a b U Graphics card
November 12, 2009 4:07:45 PM

Yeah, the fanbois are coming out like flies to roadkill. Now, if the 295s are dropped to 200 bucks a pop and you were on a tight budget, it would be a different situation.

Also of consideration, if your motherboard supports more than 2 PCI-E slots, you have the option of adding a third card in the future, but dual 295s would be the end of that upgrade path, as I am quite sure there is no Hexa-Sli support yet, outside of the Tesla desktops. I can't really fathom needed a third 5870, mind you, but I also can't see into the future... YET.

Stick with the order you have if you can't get the restocking fee waved. It is an excellent build (one of the best gaming rigs that can be built atm) that will serve you very well for a long time to come, I know I would love to be on the recieving end of that gift, hah. Interested in adopting a 30 year old child? I change myself and can cook Macaroni and Cheese, in nine minutes flat, yo.

Disregard posters that don't bring at least a modicum of respect and thought to their suggestions, they are pretty easy to spot. ;) 
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a b U Graphics card
November 12, 2009 4:10:05 PM

Oh nice, an update while I was typing that one out. That was "nice" of them. Enjoy your totally bitchin rig, ma'am!
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November 12, 2009 4:28:33 PM

JofaMang said:
Yeah, the fanbois are coming out like flies to roadkill. Now, if the 295s are dropped to 200 bucks a pop and you were on a tight budget, it would be a different situation.

Also of consideration, if your motherboard supports more than 2 PCI-E slots, you have the option of adding a third card in the future, but dual 295s would be the end of that upgrade path, as I am quite sure there is no Hexa-Sli support yet, outside of the Tesla desktops. I can't really fathom needed a third 5870, mind you, but I also can't see into the future... YET.

Stick with the order you have if you can't get the restocking fee waved. It is an excellent build (one of the best gaming rigs that can be built atm) that will serve you very well for a long time to come, I know I would love to be on the recieving end of that gift, hah. Interested in adopting a 30 year old child? I change myself and can cook Macaroni and Cheese, in nine minutes flat, yo.

Disregard posters that don't bring at least a modicum of respect and thought to their suggestions, they are pretty easy to spot. ;) 



Lol I will let you know if I ever decide I need more kids.

Oh I just check my email confirmation and I ended up getting a little different. The guy game me the 1.5TB drive. So here are the actual stats. I aksed for the 1TB but I am not going to worry about it now. I don't think it will hurt the comp? Now I just have to wait a month for it to arrive. Hopefully it will be here in time for xmas. Thanks everyone for your help.

Cosmic Black, Alienware Area-51 Chassis
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ i7 975 3.33GHz (8MB Cache) Extreme Edition Quad Core Processor
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
VIDEO CARD Dual 1GB GDDR5 ATI Radeon™ HD 5870 CrossfireX™ Enabled
MEMORY 12GB DDR3 1333MHz (3x 4GB) Tri Channel Memory
HARD DRIVE 256GB SSD - Solid State Drive
ADDITIONAL HARD DRIVE 1.5TB - SATA-II, 3Gb/s, 7,200RPM, 32MB Cache HDD
OPTICAL DRIVE 6X Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Reads and Writes to DVD/CD/BD)
SOUND CARD Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium




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a b U Graphics card
November 12, 2009 5:18:19 PM

No need for anymore changes, you have one hell of a machine there. But one month? Normally it takes 2 weeks for delivery since the building of the PC is done in less than a day. Then they burn-in the system to assure 100% stability and after that they pack/ship, same as DELL. Anyways let us know once you recieve the PC and/or if you have any other questions.
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a b U Graphics card
November 12, 2009 6:05:21 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if that month is based on waiting for 5870 shipments.
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a b U Graphics card
November 12, 2009 6:15:43 PM

Yea I was thinking the same thing.... Hopefully they do have a few in stock and she will be able to get her PC in less than a month.
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