Is ATI really that hard up for TSMC's product?

[jcknouse]

Just wondering if anyone else has seen how quickly NewEgg sold out of the 5800 series graphics cards. NewEgg had 5870s and 5850s for like...3 or 4 days? And they're sold out already?

Anyone get the feeling that there's an artificial shortage to drive up prices?

Oh well, at least I already got my 5770s for now, and maybe I'll get a 5970 later when they come out.

 

[cscott_it]

I really don't think so. Truth be told only something like 45% of the total yields from TSMC have been of quality to make the 58xx series, if I recall.

 

[HibyPrime]

I really doubt it's artificial, the prices have only been raised marginally.

 

[jennyh]

If it's artificial it's failing horribly in Britain as none of the top suppliers have had any 5800 series card for about a week, and none are imminent. Can't drive up the price of something that doesn't exist

 

[paperfox]

If ati wanted to drive up prices then why did they release the cards for so cheap in the first place?

 

[OvrClkr]

Hey jenny what happen to your siggy? How will AMD make that profit if we have no GPU's??? As far as I know this shortage is going to continue till at least Q1 2010....

 

[dndhatcher]

LOL Overclkr - read the news. Thats their intel lawsuit money.

The problem is the 40nm yields fell about 15% when the production was ramped up so they dont have enough chips. Likely those that do pass will be made into 5870s so the 5850 may stay hard to find for a long time.

 

[OvrClkr]

Then that would make no sense cause the money was obtained by a lawsuit and not by sales. I was under the impression that we were hoping to see AMD get out of the hole due to CPU and GPU sales.... Not by relying on money from a lawsuit, of course it doesn't hurt to win that amount but if AMD is thinking that this will be an ongoing cycle they have a surprise coming....

 

[OvrClkr]

It wasn't a lawsuit.

No, then who is going to shell out the cash? Santa?

 

[jennyh]

OvrClkr, intel have to pay the full $1.25bn in 30 days.

That will actually be counted in both companies balance sheets for Q4.

 

[jennyh]

And no, of course this won't be happening every quarter.

If you notice my sig...I'm claiming $1.5bn not the $1.25bn intel are paying. Now I know there is a severe shortage of gpu's but hopefully that will be fixed in time for Christmas.

ATI still have a lot of money to make, so does AMD in cpu's. It might not quite make it to $1.5bn but it should be closer to that than $1bn.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Then that would make no sense cause the money was obtained by a lawsuit and not by sales. I was under the impression that we were hoping to see AMD get out of the hole due to CPU and GPU sales....

Well you include debt load not incurred by current activities, why not add the $1.25B from intel?
If they use the money to reduce debt, then that could mean ongoing benefit and potentially help maintain and increase profit from revenue not siphoned off for debt.

 

[obsidian86]

good quality+good price = high demand

 

[OvrClkr]

Yea 1.5b is not bad dispite all the money they could have made if Intel didn't cheat.

 

[KidHorn]

If ATI is thinking they'll get the problem resolved in time for Christmas shopping, it's probably too late. Christmas is only 39 days away. The shopping season has already begun.

AMD will probably just sit on the Intel money. It would seem retiring debt would be a more prudent idea seeing as they pay about $600mm/yr in interest, but with the economy the way it is, banks not making loans, and the possibility of the bond market tanking, they probably don't want to take a risk of being forced to borrow money down the road.

One other caveat is AMD booked some profit in Q3 that was based on their bonds trading below par. With the Intel money, I would guess their bond prices went up and hence it will be more expensive to retire the same amount of debt and/or they may have worse numbers in Q4 outside of the Intel money.

Also, the Intel payout was in exchange for AMD dropping all current and many potential lawsuits against Intel so it was absolutely lawsuit based.

 

[mactronix]

As i have posted on other threads i really dont think there was a need to force prices up. The cards are good enough to sell for more than they were first asking anyway.
Maybe they were saving chips for the 5970, maybe they decided to release the 5970 sooner than planned because its cheaper to make than two 5870's and so maximise profits on what chips they do have while keeping the ball rolling and pleasing top end consumers ? All speculation on my part of course.
Its possable the shortage was due to the 5970 getting the chips in preferance, but that would be the only way i could see it being worth ATI having anything to do with the shortage directly.

Mactronix

 

[JofaMang]

The sooner the top end cards make it to market, the sooner we will see the next generation, heh. If competition is their main concern, then getting the 5970s to marker, long before the green team can even offer a single dx11 card, is an excellent strategy. By the time the DX11 nvidia cards hit market (between january and april according to the broad range of rumors), marketshare will have shifted significantly compared to the same time the previous year. Interesting times ahead, indeed.

 

[jcknouse]

good quality+good price = high demand

= 25% price increase in 1 month?

I just smell a profit maker here.

Buy up as much inventory as TSMC will sell, don't increase production to meet the market demand, and validate your increases in price based on "supply and demand".

You can't say ATI doesn't know that in the first week there was a high demand when suppliers like NewEgg sold out within 72 hours.

I just smell a rat. Maybe I'm paranoid, but it doesn't make much sense unless TSMC isn't willing to increase their production. And, what company wants to pass up increased sales?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I just smell a rat. Maybe I'm paranoid, but it doesn't make much sense unless TSMC isn't willing to increase their production. And, what company wants to pass up increased sales?


Well, since TSMC has admitted theyre having problems increasing their 40nm production, Id gues youd have to add that they cant increase it, and no funny business goin on here, unless you get into conspiracy theories, which would include nVidia or Intel, take your pick there.
But, since weve all seen the "flat" production admittance from TSMC, what youre saying doesnt make any sense

 

[mactronix]

To be totally honest i wouldnt rule out another rise never mind waiting for the prices to go down. I think we are lucky the price is where it is and didnt start where it is now and went up $20 on top of that.
I was dissapointed at first as well but when its all sunk in and you look at it from a view of the thing as a whole and not just as a pissed off consumer that wanted one thing and got another, well then reluctantly i cant blame them for pricing what is after all a premium product where they did. Still dosent mean im paying whats being asked though

Mactronix

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Well, the 4xxx series didnt come in as low as it is to not gain marketshare. So, cutting marketshare when theres no competition with the next gen doesnt make sense

 

[mactronix]

Agreed, it makes no sense at all from any view point to reduce the amount of cards going to market, they have the best all round product with the best features. The cards are pretty much selling themselves and i think that if they could magically flood the market tomorrow but put another $20 on the price they would still fly off the shelves.

Mactronix