GPu block and some other questions

welshmousepk

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Hey guys.

So i guess it was inevitable. I got my first watercooling setup (a rasa kit) and now I'm struck with the upgrade bug. As I'm very new to this i would appreciate some tips on what to get.

I currently have the rs240 kit, and want to add my gpu to the loop. To keep performance in line i will be getting an rx120 rad to help dissipate the extra heat. I am also getting the raystorm CPU block to replace the rasa.

I'm a little unsure about what universal GPU block to get though.
I was originally going to get the rasa GPU block, since it reviews favorably and is one of the cheapest to buy and ship. However,looking more into reviews it seems to be a high restriction block. Given I am using a relatively weak pump, would i be better going for something else? I was looking at the mcw82 from swiftech. It review almost as well as the rasa, but seems to be much lower restriction which i imagine would be a benefit in my loop.
I still don't really understand the numbers behind all this though, so i'm unsure.

I will possibly be getting a new pump somewhere down the line (i keep hearing different things about the rasa pump. some say its plenty for a multiblock setup, others say its rubbish. I will surely upgrade if it will make a difference, buit is it really necessary?), but the unlikely until i add a second gpu to my setup, so i wouldn't want performance to be hampered in the mean time.


Lastly, with cooling the VRMs when using a universal block, how careful do i need to be? I currently have a 120mm intake fan next to where the gpu will be, and will be getting some copper ramsinks. I was thinking i may also get a PCI slot fan like this to aid airflow and keep the VRMs from overheating. Is this overkill. it does add a fair bit to the overall cost of the upgrade, given international shipping.
 
Solution
hmmmm - :/

You mentioned the d5 kit, but im not sure if that's the thing i linked or something else entirely.
sorry i was a bit mixed up - but they are similar.

Basically, my main questions atm are if YOU had the cash available, and were using just a rasa kit, would you consider the extreme to be a worthy upgrade for the cash, or would you stick with what you have?
well if you're asking me - i'd get the XSPC extreme VPP kit over anything as i can get much more for less.Since i like compression fittings+colored tubing. That pump is actually far stronger than what you're currently working with. But you're not me and I'm working on a themed, AMS WC setup so i didn't get compressions as the compressions would've conflicted with...

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
Lastly, with cooling the VRMs when using a universal block, how careful do i need to be?

There is a section in the watercooling sticky that addresses the needs for universal block additional cooling.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/265776-29-read-first-watercooling-sticky#t1906563

The Raystorm isn't going to be a large performance bump over the Rasa- both are similar blocks with the newer Raystorm being a little better. However, this is going to be pretty minimal for the end user...likely less than 1-2C at the very most.

I would say, skip the CPU block change, and use that money toward a better pump. This will help keep your overall costs down.
 

welshmousepk

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So i currently have the rig in my signature with the rasa 750 rs240 kit.

I've read the sticky rubix, but it doesn't really alleviate my concerns. I know the vrms need to be kept cool, but what im really wondering is how much direct airflow is needed if overvolting .My only experience with an aftermarket GPU cooler involved virtually combusting VRMs because it only used little aluminum sinks. I'm buying copper, but im wondering if the PCI cooler would make much of a difference.

I see what you mean about the CPU block, the main reason i wanted to upgrade to it was given the relatively weak pump in the rasa kit, the lower restriction block might potentially see a bigger bump.
I see what you mean though, so i think io might instead get the improved xspc res/pump combo with the variable speed pump here. is it a big enough improvement to warrant the cost? ( I have the cash, but don't want to waste it obviously).

The other thing im thinking though, is frozen CPU has this kit. Now not only does it mean i get the pump, rad and block for less than i would pay separately, but i also get all th e extra fittings, barbs and fans i'd need. PLUS, the shipping for some reason is way less.

So im actually thinking I might get the above kit, plus a koolance rad mount for my existing rs240 to be mounted externally. plus the gpu block, ramsinks and pcie fan. altogether not too much cash, but a sizeable upgrade no?

EDIT: sorry, one more question. How does the single rx120 rad compare to the rs240? For the cost of the mounting bracket for my rs rad, i could just buy the rx rad. considering how much neater it would look, it seems like a good idea. I'm assuming performance wouldn't be too far decreased since the rad is dual thickness?

Also, that then means i can completely replace my current kit, and its much easier to sell off a complete kit than a few single components.
\
 

Lutfij

Titan
Moderator
you could actually sell the stuff separately without any issues.

getting the newer kit means future proof upgrade path - though it just means you have two near similar kits.

here's what i found:
At close to twice the thickness of the RS series radiators it has excellent cooling capabilities and the sub 8fpi gives the radiator very low air flow resistance. The RX120 has been designed and optimised for low speed fans so it can offer high performance cooling at very low noise levels.
more here

and a review of V1 - http://skinneelabs.com/xspc-rx120-v1/

so if the RX is optimized to run at lower fan speeds and give cooling specs of a RS than at higher speeds - should be better than the RS.
 

welshmousepk

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The problem is that I live in a small country with very few PC enthusiasts, so selling individual parts will be tricky.

I'm really unsure what to go with atm. the full kit looks very nice, but once i factor in the gpu block, ramsinks, pci fan, extra fittings and radiator it comes to $420, plus 133 shipping.
Now with the weak US dollar atm, that equates to a little more than a gtx580 in my home currency. that seems like a good deal, but its still a lot to spend on a loop.
 

Lutfij

Titan
Moderator
where dya live mate?

* worst case scenario - you won't spend the money now. But don't let this info go to waste :), save up some more and until then keep saving. The latter option of going with a full on D5 kit is a viable option as it's future proofed.
 

welshmousepk

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New zealand.

Again, its not that I can't afford it. In fact, i have the spare cash sat there and im aching to spend it. but i never make these purchases lightly.
So the upgraded rasa kit with the improved pump you are saying is a good choice? I just want to be sure i'm not going to regret the purchase.

I have trimmed some of the cost but getting rid of the extra rad, as i think i'd be better off getting a radstand for my rs240 rad. I'm not entirely sure i can mount it though.
Urgh, such a tough decision.
 

Lutfij

Titan
Moderator
again mate, we're trying to help you but one thing we try to do alot is produce what you want to see/use/work with, not the other way round. take some time, get a bit of fresh air and think a lil more.

Ian pooley used to go to new zealand to gather peace and inspiration to make his music...i don't suppose you're in a hard spot to do the same only Watercooling wise :)

and i'll restate what rubix said:
The Raystorm isn't going to be a large performance bump over the Rasa- both are similar blocks with the newer Raystorm being a little better. However, this is going to be pretty minimal for the end user...likely less than 1-2C at the very most.

I would say, skip the CPU block change, and use that money toward a better pump. This will help keep your overall costs down.

the pump is waht looks very lucrative and the option to get compression fittings+choice of colored tubing and i think theres an in house watercooling site that ships to austrailia and new zealand.

* if you're aching to spend it - you'd be hard pressed to find it wasn't worth it :/
** found it - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=207_160
*** i don't think they have the RX extreme kit.
 

welshmousepk

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Sorry, i didn't mean for my previous post to come of as angry. I'm just not fully understanding this atm. I'm anxious to order the stuff as it will take 2 weeks to arrive.
You mentioned the d5 kit, but im not sure if that's the thing i linked or something else entirely. What i was trying to ascertain is if the extreme kit above has a pump thats considerably more powerful than the one i have. I really am trying to do the research, and considering i knew nothing about watercooling 2 weeks ago i think im doing well to even be able to identify restriction and pump flow.

All im really concerned about is cooling performance. I don't want to have to do much, if any, modding. and i play with headphones so noise is no concern. My case has a 120mm and 240mm position for fans/rads.

Basically, my main questions atm are if YOU had the cash available, and were using just a rasa kit, would you consider the extreme to be a worthy upgrade for the cash, or would you stick with what you have?
I dont really want to spend 700 dollars on a kit that's not going to net me much of a gain.

Buying from an aussie site is hardly worth it also. with the strong NZD and weak USD, its often cheaper to pay shipping from overseas.

what i think I might do so im not spending so much at once is to leave out the GPU block and related items, and just get the kit itself. once i have that set up i can decide where to go.
 

Lutfij

Titan
Moderator
hmmmm - :/

You mentioned the d5 kit, but im not sure if that's the thing i linked or something else entirely.
sorry i was a bit mixed up - but they are similar.

Basically, my main questions atm are if YOU had the cash available, and were using just a rasa kit, would you consider the extreme to be a worthy upgrade for the cash, or would you stick with what you have?
well if you're asking me - i'd get the XSPC extreme VPP kit over anything as i can get much more for less.Since i like compression fittings+colored tubing. That pump is actually far stronger than what you're currently working with. But you're not me and I'm working on a themed, AMS WC setup so i didn't get compressions as the compressions would've conflicted with the rad i have ... might want to check out my build log in my sig as well :)

plus getting another pump/bay res will only mean you have two pump/res' and eventually you'll be having two of everything.

sell the kit, get the RX240 extreme and replace your rasa as is. since the pump is storng - you can add more rads without worry/breaking a sweat. The latter would've happened eventually with the rasa kit X2O pump.

^ this is strictly my opinion as you will definitely have a dif view/setup.

what i think I might do so im not spending so much at once is to leave out the GPU block and related items, and just get the kit itself. once i have that set up i can decide where to go.
a good idea, like stated above - when you're set, you can add more rads+blocks. though do remeber to bleed/fill properly.

sorry for all the migrane inducing details :p ... but you'll thank me later.

Edit: if noise isn't an issue - select the 2250 yate loons.
if you want to turn them down, get a fan controller/ a pwm fan splitter that'll work off the cpu mobo header: here
 
Solution

welshmousepk

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Ok thanks for the help, that's exactly what i wanted to know. I think i'll order the extreme kit, so ill just replace my existing setup in its entirety unless i can somehow make use of the rs240 rad somewhere.

I wasn't sure about the fans either, i was tossing up between thew 1650 and 2250 rpm. I've been told the 2250's are VERY loud. and while i do game with headphones, i cant imagine anything worse than being able to hear the fans OVER the headphone sound. But as you said, i can always get a fan controller if they're that bad.

anyway, thanks again for all the help. much appreciated.

 

welshmousepk

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thanks lutfij. I've decided that If I'm going to spend the money on a new kit so soon after my last one, I'm going to do it right and make sure its gonna be everything I need, so here's what I'll be ordering:
Untitled-1.png


I think that should be everything I need.

The only thing concerning me now is clearance for the tubing from the gpu block. but ill cross that bridge when i come to it.

I will upload some pics when its all built, but it will take 76-14 days for the parts to even arrive.

 

Lutfij

Titan
Moderator
what are the additional 4 compression fittings for?

swiftech make a radbox as well and is cheaper + comes with all you need too

and might wanna look at the swiftech mcw82 universal blocks and ramsinks

maybe worth a look:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14501/ex-blc-1002/Heatkiller_GPU-X_GTX_570_580_-Hole_Edition-_nVidia_GTX_570580_nolHS_Non-Reference_Design_Full_Coverage_Water_Block_15513.html?tl=g30c311s1351
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12905/ex-blc-902/Heatkiller_GPU-X_GTX_570_580_-Hole_Edition-_nVidia_GTX_570580_Reference_Design_Full_Coverage_Water_Block_15511.html?tl=g30c311s1351
 

welshmousepk

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2 fittings for the GPU block, and 2 for my existing RS240 rad. I figure i may use compressions everywhere rather than a combination of barbsand compression fittings.

The reason i'm going with the koolance mount is that i can use it to externally mount my rs240 rad on my rear 120mm exhaust. I can then use both rads in the loop without any hardware modification (and form what i hear, this mount is very good for that)

as for the universal sinks, where would i look for those? I'm not sure If im missing some page on frozen CPU but ive had trouble finding a decent selection for cooling the gpu chips. I dont really want to go to another site and have to pay a tonne to ship some small items though.
It is annoying me though that the heatsinks to cool the chips are so expensive, is there a better way?

EDIT: oh, and the reason i want a universal block is that I upgrade GPUs very often. and will almost certainly be getting a keppler card when they become available in my country. seems like a waste of money to buy a full cover block now. even though it works out almost the same price after the cost of heatsinks for the ram and vrms...
 

Lutfij

Titan
Moderator
hmmm, the ramsinks - well you need to go through other sites to see them.

+1 to universals if you change cards like fresh clothes everyday :p but yeah they are better than full covers. Erm ramsinks - well they can be sold later and some can be reused since the keplers have the near similar pcb layout...but we need to wait and see if that is possible as most people had a good time modding a bit of their sinks to amd's 79xx series.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/mciraho.html
one more thing, the radbox by swiftech is cheaper and capable of doing exactly the same thing like the koolance... and your xspc kit also comse with standoffs for the rad should you want to use it outside the case.

either this i think:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6475/ex-rad-124/XSPC_Radiator_Mounting_Bracket_Set_-_M4_Thread.html?tl=g30c95s162

or this:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10347/ex-rad-179/XSPC_Radiator_Mounting_Bracket_Set_-_632_Thread.html?tl=g30c95s162

so you're covered on all fronts - and you save that $56 on the radbox
 

welshmousepk

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I actually already have some of those standoffs that came with the other kit. are they strong enough/offer enough support than i can mount them to a rear 120mm spot to hold a 240mm rad with fans attached? (without damaging the rad ofc)

that radbox confuses me slightly, im not sure how it actually works? :S does it go around a fan, or on top of it?

the main thing is i need to have enough clearance or the rad will block my gpu I/O
 

Lutfij

Titan
Moderator
are they strong enough/offer enough support than i can mount them to a rear 120mm spot to hold a 240mm rad with fans attached?
yes - if they were crap, iwould've seen it/heard of it on the rasa cooling club on http://www.overclock.net/t/882408/official-xspc-rasa-750-rs-rx120-240-360-kit-club

that radbox confuses me slightly, im not sure how it actually works?
which ever way you want to mount it it'll get the job done+more...you get instructions with it and its easy to understand.

the main thing is i need to have enough clearance or the rad will block my gpu I/O
i know about that, thas why the swiftech's come with nylon spacers. similarly achieved with that external mounting hardware you got with teh xspc.
 

welshmousepk

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thanks lutfij, sorry about all questions. you've been very patient. i didn't realise the swiftech radbox came with spacers as they aren't mentioned on frozen cpu. but it certainly seems like a cheaper alternative so i will get one instead of the koolance.
im off to bed anyway. but thanks again for all the help.
 

Lutfij

Titan
Moderator
oi, one more thing i forgot to mention the compression fittings - if you're going with teh universal blocks - don't get the compressions as they will hit the pcb of your gpu. might wanna look at the gpu bridge's

and some more to look at:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14555/ex-blc-1011/EK_VGA_Supreme_HF_-Bridge_Edition-_Universal_High_Performance_VGA_Cooling_Block_-_Acrylic_EK-VGA_Supreme_HF_Bridge_Edition.html#blank

and if you sli - then get a bridge as well - http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30/c357/s922/list/p1/Liquid_Cooling-Water_Blocks_VGA_-_Brand-EK_VGA_Blocks-Page1.html

 

rubix_1011

Contributing Writer
Moderator
You don't need a fancy bridge like that, you can just use barbs instead of compression fittings...this is all I do.

As for airflow over the RAMsinks, I've run RAMsinks on the last 6 sets of cards I've run in SLI with the same universal blocks. You don't need a tremendous amount of airflow to make them effective. The open air around the RAMsinks should help dissipate any heat that they are absorbing and getting rid of.

Swiftech universal blocks are a tad bit less restrictive, but likely not something you'd be able to notice or that would impact performance. Just go with your preference.
 

welshmousepk

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ok, thanks for the additional tips. I already have loads of 1/2" barbs so i can use a couple of those for the gpu block. trimimg two compressions saves a little bit anyway.

I keep hearing things about the the different reference 580s not having an IHS on the GPU. Am i right in saying that it doesn't matter at all with a universal block?
And also, does the ref 580 have an aluminum plate sink that can be left on after removing the fan and cooling chamber? I'm seeing it in some pic and not others.
would it even be worth leaving on if it does?

changing to the swiftech radbox and losing two compression fittings has brought me down to 392 total and 128 shipping.
with the weak dollar at the mo, that 520 usd equates to about 640 NZD. a much more reasonable amount than i originally had. though it still seems hard to justify. im sat here debating it with myself, and could hit buy at any moment...