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PC takes several tries to boot in mornings.

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January 24, 2010 9:04:33 AM

I built my rig last friday and have noticed since then that in the mornings it takes several tries to boot.

The day I built it, the morning after, and this morning had slightly different things happened.

When I first booted the PC, it worked fine and got me to the BIOS screen and I could install windows 7 (64 bit) on my new hdd. Everything fine.

After I was done, I turned it off and attached another modular cable to my PSU and added two older HDDs. After doing this the PC loaded real slow... I've got a 650W Antec Signature with 3 rails. I thought maybe I'm overloading a rail? I'm not sure... I changed the modular cable to the other output socket available and it all ran fine for the day.

On the second day... it started booting all slow again (I suppose switching the cables resulted in a fix by coincidence before?) and it took ages to get past the Asus Motherboard's 'Loading Gateway Express' screen (Asus P7P55D-LE) and it slowly progressed through the post screen. I hit the reset after that and it booted normally then. Windows gave me option to run windows repair. I did that, but nothing was done and I simply returned to using Windows 7 normally. Everything fine for the day.

Today, computer boots up and reaches the windows 7 "Welcome" screen but then just blacks out. I reset the PC and am given the option to run windows repair while it boots up again... I choose the repair option but it just gives me an error and a blue screen after it 'scans' for a while... Oh man. I reboot and choose to run windows 7 normally and once again it's been runs fine, despite not having really done anything.

EDIT: Turning the PC off for an hour or more doesn't bring those problems back when I try later in the day. Seems to be just in the mornings?

Is this somehow related to the PSU? Does it take time to get all the juice to the PC? Could it be the motherboard? Is it temperature related since it usually resolves itself for the day after being on for a while (it's not really that cold here though)? Speedfan reports all temps on all HDDs and Cores are around 30 when it does load. It has a blue arrow pointing down next to them.

Thanks for reading, your help is appreciated.

EDIT2: Summary of PC setup:

Asus P7P55D-LE Mobo
Intel i5 750
4GB Corsair DDR3 1333 CAS9
XFX 5850 XXX Edition
Antec Signature 650W Modular
Win 7 64-bit Pro

More about : takes boot mornings

a c 144 ) Power supply
January 24, 2010 10:45:30 AM

Is the system overclocked?
January 24, 2010 11:22:39 AM

No, it's all at stock settings I believe... although, now that you mention it, I do remember installing the Asus TurboV program which seems to change clock frequencies 'on the fly'. I've uninstalled that on the first day though.

It just seemed odd to me as the system works fine and is stable from what I can tell. I've ran Oblivion and Fallout 3 at 1920x1200 with everything to max and even recording with fraps at 60fps at full res. Compressing videos doesn't seem to cause any instabilities either. Cores (i5 750) reach 55c when under load.

I can restart, shut down and turn back on the PC fine during the day. I suspect only after a long time off (over the nights) is when the problem re-occurs. Hence the weird idea that things need to 'warm up'. I was hoping someone might recognize this odd behaviour.

I suppose I'll try a CMOS clear later... I'll probably give the MemOK button a try too on the mobo.
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a c 144 ) Power supply
January 24, 2010 12:31:10 PM

The only thing that I can think of that would cause this problem is your PSU. But you have a much better than average PSU.
a b ) Power supply
January 24, 2010 1:13:38 PM

YOu say the problem started after adding the 2 old HDD's try removing them and see if it stops ! - could be one of the HDD is starting to go bad which would explain the long load time as it tries to get the info from the HDD for setup - once windows loads does it show both Hdd's or is one left off in my computer (if the drive is bad and after a few attempts windows can not retrieve info from it then it leaves it off the system info.
January 24, 2010 1:31:52 PM

There haven't been any problems with the HDDs as far as I have noticed. They show up fine and I've been using them alot. Once the intial failed boot happens the PC runs flawlessly.

Seeing as this error is slightly hard to replicate (once daily it seems, heh...) I'll disconnect them and try booting the PC tomorrow. If the error then occurs, I'll try clearing the CMOS and using the MemOK feature on the motherboard.

If neither of those work, then I'll have to assume it's the PSU? I have suspicions that it may be a returned product to be honest... the circular sticker on the paper cover that surround the box was cut (as seen in the 1st picture on this page: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=113). But I don't really want to force scan.co.uk to replace it if it's not actually the PSU causing this. I mean the PC is stable... a dodgy supply wouldn't just let up after the first boot attempt and work flawlessly from then on or would it?

EDIT: Just tried connecting the modular cable with the HDDs on it to the first PSU socket again and it's working fine... so the PSU seems to be in working order. Unless it requires some amount of time to get going from when it's been turned off a long time. Or the same thing applies to the HDDs... which might be more accurate since the first ever boot (when the other HDDs weren't connected) worked fine.

I'll see how it boots tomorrow... turning it off for a few hours doesn't seem to invoke the same behaviour. I cleared the CMOS and did the MemOK configuration. So if it doesn't boot tomorrow with the HDDs being disconnected as well then it'll have to be the PSU or Mobo.
January 26, 2010 10:00:38 AM

Alright, it always fails to boot ONCE everyday... it gets to the windows 7 'welcome' screen and the background just turns a plain teal/blue (similar to the loading screen baclground).

It then stays there for around 10 seconds, auto-shutdowns and restarts. Then it gives the optional to run Windows normally after reaching a 'windows failed to shutdown properly etc'.

After this happens it always runs fine the second time and for the rest of the day pretty much.

So far I've tried:

-disconnecting both additional HDDs
-clearing CMOS
-MemOK feature on the motherboard

Only thing left to do is perhaps flash the bios.

But I suppose it's now hinting towards the PSU? Is it possible for PSUs to need time to 'get going' after a long time switched off?
a b ) Power supply
January 26, 2010 12:52:21 PM

Just a thought but are you turning the PSU on and then starting up the system right away ?? - Some PSU's require a minute or so to warm up from a cold state and it might be that the PSU is not providing enough power to boot the first time - try turning on the PSU a couple minutes before trying to boot tomorrow and see if it will then boot the first try.
January 26, 2010 1:26:52 PM

I don't turn the PSU off at the back when I'm finished using the PC. I just shutdown.

I've turned off 'Quick Boot' in the BIOS and will see how it goes tomorrow. :S
January 26, 2010 5:37:57 PM

Hello,

I have been having a very similar problem recently.

I am using a Corsair 750W PSU.

As of 2 days ago it started resetting upon entering desktop, every single time.

I tried changing the PSU with another Corsair, this time the 850W which I use in my main box and nothing is changed.

More strangely, I have assembled another PC with the same HDD's and different CPU, video card, motherboard, one half the RAM, then tried the other 2 sticks, to no avail.

Now I've reassembled the original PC and upon pressing the power button, I get maybe half a second of juice and it just stops... Could it... Possibly... Be just a faulty power-on switch? In both cases?
January 26, 2010 6:48:04 PM

Noarms,
I've seen a number of people with this "cold boot" issue, many either don't get it resolved or if they do they don't write back to explain what it was. If you haven't done so yet, update your BIOS to the latest. Also, manually set the Voltage, Frequency, and Timings for your RAM.
January 26, 2010 7:29:44 PM

I've collected some of the solutions others have posted for this problem. They vary wildly, and still don't work for everyone:

1. Update BIOS

2. Set RAM values manually, that the board trying to find the right V and timings caused it to reboot. Set: V, Frequency, and Timing.

3. A couple people said setting the Vcore manually fixed their problem. One person said they pulled the PSU plugs off the motherboard and reseated them. The problem went away, and they noticed that the Vcore, though on Auto, was running a tad bit higher after they reseated the PSU then it was before.

4. Another person I tried to help last fall told me Gigabyte informed him he needed an ATX v2.3 PSU and when he got one the problem went away.

5. Turn off Legacy USB support in the BIOS.

6. Replace RAM with a different set.
January 26, 2010 11:16:13 PM

Well I have now ascertained that in my case, it was my CPU that was in the process of dying. May it now RIP.

It was an Opteron 185, it gave me years of good service. It was faithful to the end, when it could no longer fulfill its duties. Of course, replacing it with, say, a used Opteron 180 would cost me over $200, so needless to say my socket 939 days are over on this, the 4th computer in the household. :( 
January 28, 2010 9:13:44 AM

Thanks for the help guys... so here's today's update:

Flashing the BIOS didn't help solve it. It just loaded up to the 'starting windows/welcome" screen and was at a lower resolution than normal. It then just blue screened restarted and, unsurprisingly, has been working fine from then on.

I'll give the Legacy USB and reconnecting the power cables a try. But how do I know what to set my Vcore to? Could it also perhaps be that there is static building up and messing things?

EDIT: RAM voltage/timing/frequency seem to be fine. I checked with CPU-z as well. CPU Core Voltage is reported at 0.872 to 0.9### and set as 1.152 in the BIOS.

Besides re-seating all the connectors I even loosened the motherboard screws a bit and tightened them again to make sure they're not too tight. I recall hearing something like that could cause problems. Well, I'm ready to try anything at this point to solve the issue.

Also, isn't there a motherboard battery? Perhaps the mobo forgets all the settings overnight? I'll enter BIOS and load the default settings tomorrow during the first boot.
January 29, 2010 10:40:28 AM

Okay, nothing seems to be working.

It blue screens/blacks just after the 'starting windows' screen. Without fail, every morning. Subsequent boots from that crash will works fine all day long and the PC runs flawlessly without a single error. The error won't return until the PC has been off for several hours (I'd say around 8+ hours).

Isn't this a clear sign now that it's the PSU?

I've tried:
-Clearning CMOS
-Flashing BIOS
-Disconnecting extra hardware the night before (Storage HDDs/DVD Drives the night before)
-Re-seating the power connectors
-Changing how many items are on the different Rails of the PSU
-Updating chipset drivers and every other driver
-Re-seating most hardware components and RAM
-Checking RAM Voltages, CPU Voltages.
-Turning off Legacy USB/Quick Boot/Asus Express Gate

Only thing left for me to do is check it on a different electric outlet socket.

Is it possible that a faulty PSU can build up static over long periods of time? Why is my error always at the same point (but only after 8 hours or being turned off)?

I'd really appreciate any further suggestions before I go blaming the PSU.

January 29, 2010 11:50:33 AM

I don't know about static build up. But it wouldn't be unreasonable to blame the PSU. Worth a shot trying a different outlet, if you're going to go to that trouble try one that's on a different circuit.

After that, any chance you can borrow a PSU, or have another one laying around you can test with?

There's a couple other threads with people who are currently having the cold boot problem, I've been collecting links, no solutions yet though:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/278342-31-cold-boot-i...
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/268794-30-memory-erro...
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274319-28-takes-boot-...
January 29, 2010 12:22:09 PM

Hmm, the only link between them all is Antec PSUs... might be faulty batch of components built into their various products? Surely not... should be more widespread otherwise?

And yea, I'll be using a socket from a different circuit in the house just to be sure. I don't have a spare PSU though.

Thanks for your time by the way... I'll be sure to report back if I solve it.
January 29, 2010 12:37:48 PM

I noticed the Antec PSU connection as well. Seems odd though, they're all different models. So may be a red herring.
February 2, 2010 4:14:53 PM

I, too, have the cold boot issue, but with a Seasonic X-650 PSU. I thought maybe it had to do with the fancy demand-based outputs from the PSU, where the output section is only turned on when the PSU detects a connected load. But a review of the other power supplies experiencing the problem shows that this is probably not the case.

Starting up electronics is very different than keeping them running reliably, so it's perfectly reasonable for a component that passes all run-time tests to be guilty of the cold boot problems. For example, sequencing the startup of multiple power sources, or dealing with irregular sequencing, is critical to avoid latch-up. The PSU and motherboard voltage regulators must also deal with high inrush currents at startup and be sure to not trip overcurrent protection or allow component operation until the regulators have stabilized. There could also be race conditions at startup where the DRAM needs to be fully awake before the motherboard starts hammering it with SPD questions.

With a bit of imagination you can see how the source of a cold-boot problem could be anything, and especially with the fragile RF-based magic involved in the latest DRAM designs it's no wonder people are having so much trouble.

I really wish the BIOS would be more specific with the boot error messages; "hardware error due to overclocking or settings changes" could be a lot more helpful if it mentioned if the problem was talking to memory, setting a CPU clock, priming the PCI bus, etc.



February 2, 2010 10:09:28 PM

:sleep:  Noarms: 0 Stress & Headaches: 1
Definitly not getting an Antec
February 3, 2010 1:18:37 PM

I've now also tried:
-Upping VCore
-Upping DRAM Voltage a bit
-Relaxing RAM Timings to a slower value

All on seperate days mind you. Real slow troubleshooting...

Now I'll give the 'Load Line Calibration' option a shot.

I'm just going to blame the PSU in the end and replace it with something else like a Corsair PSU. If that doesn't solve it then I'll have to somehow check each part with a local PC shop or something... can't really send stuff back one by one without knowing what's causing it. :/ 
February 5, 2010 6:26:46 AM

I'm still not convinced that it's a PSU problem. It just seems to me that there is a conflict of some sort between the two hard drives ( if I read this correctly, you are running 2 of them, aren't you? ). If so, are you running in RAID? If not, to me, it seems the 2 hard drives can't assemble Windows 7 because it's not sure which drive to look at first, as if it says " I don't know where all of my program is" then gives up and sits on a blue screen. It might depend on which drive it looks at first on boot up which might explain why everything works on 2nd boot. Windows might say "there is part of my program, and, oh, I sent the other part on the second drive, let me go get it from there...." then everything runs fine. To me, if it were a PSU problem, you wouldn't even make it to the BIOS screen.
February 5, 2010 2:02:21 PM

Have you tried replacing the memory yet? Instead of booting Windows right away, boot a CD or USB stick with Memtest. I replaced my memory with a different type and the problem went away.
February 6, 2010 3:20:55 PM

Ah, I've been distracted a few days... I'll be trying to solve it again.

No, I haven't run memtest yet, I'll probably try it tomorrow.

But since then, I've noticed this:

I can avoid the crashes if I turn my PC on, and then off again just after POST. So it's merely on for just 4 or 5 seconds... if I now turn it on again it'll boot just fine.

I've noticed it'll keep crashing until I completely turn off the computer for a while and then boot it, rather than restarting it all the time and hoping it'll reach the Desktop. It was doing this itself sometimes when it reaches a blank skyblue screen... but I've only just noticed that restarts alone don't solve it... so I guess we can rule out any 'warming up' of components or transistors or whatever?

Also I've ruled out the harddrives on the 4th day or something, I disconnected the additional 2 the night before and the error still came the day after. Win7 is just installed on one HDD. I don't have any RAID setups.
a c 144 ) Power supply
February 6, 2010 4:12:33 PM

JDFan said:
Just a thought but are you turning the PSU on and then starting up the system right away ?? - Some PSU's require a minute or so to warm up from a cold state and it might be that the PSU is not providing enough power to boot the first time - try turning on the PSU a couple minutes before trying to boot tomorrow and see if it will then boot the first try.

Unlikely. PSU's have a PowerOK circuit that will not let you boot until all the outputs are good. And if you lose this signal, it forces an automatic hardware reset.

D_ii_4_i3_L_o, along with 3 Corsairs, I also have 3 Antecs, all working, one of them 7 years old.

Noarms,
Make sure your case power switch is good. Swap it with the reset switch and try to boot with the reset switch.

Try this: First thing before you try to boot you computer, turn off the PSU with its power switch. Wait 10 seconds. Turn it back on. Try to boot. If it works, you have a problem with the PSU standby circuits. Try another PSU.


February 16, 2010 7:23:26 AM

I've tried switching the case power button cables and it's still the same as always. I also tried using the reset button as the power button and leaving the real power button disconnected.

I also tried turning the PSU off for about 10 seconds before the first boot of the day... but it still crashed/hanged.

I've now unmounted the whole mobo and checked the stand off pins and whatnot and reassembled the whole lot. Going to see how that fares.

I can avoid any errors by turning the PC on for even just a second and off again (don't have to even wait for POST like stated before) and then it'll work once I turn it on again.

Any thoughts on what that could hint to?
April 21, 2011 11:38:18 PM

Hi everyone,

Pity I did not find this forum earlier. I also see it does not have a conclusion. Noarms, did you ever fix the problem and if so what was the problem? I am having the exact same problem and my guess is it is power related. I have changed the motherboard over time and the problem persists. In fact the only thing that I have not changed are the hard drives, DVDROM, PSU and the chassis itself. I suspect it might be my case though. Either that or the PSU. I have a Thermaltake Toughpower 750W. I am interested in trying one or two suggestions above to see if it narrows down my problem of cold booting. It is a real pain as sometimes I turn on the PC and go do something only to return to find it at that Windows repair screen.
!