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Can't figure out 18 second boot delay w/ external USB drive

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October 4, 2011 6:46:58 PM

Greetings,

The drive is a Fantom Drives 2TB USB 3.0. Internally it's a Samsung HD204UI.

Here is what happens:

PC off, drive off. Turn drive on, boot pc, no delay, drive works fine.

Now if I leave the drive on and reboot or cold boot, there will be an 18 second delay every time until the drive has the power cycled.

The delay is ONLY after the first boot after the drive has had the power cycled.

What I don't get it why there's no delay the first time. I can understand it having to load a USB 3.0 driver, but why the heck doesn't it do it the first time then?

This drive does not power off automatically with the pc like my old WD which is probably why I never saw this issue with the WD.

Any ideas?


--
CPU maker: intel
CPU: Core i5 2500K
Motherboard: MSI Z68 GD65 (B3)
Graphics Card: Integrated
Memory: 16 GB Ripjaws X 1600
Hard Drive: 1x Intel 320 120 GB, 2x WD Green 1 TB RAID 1
External Drive: Fantom Drives 2TB USB 3.0 (Samsung HD204UI)
Optical Drive: External
Power Supply: Seasonic 560w
Display: HP ZR22W
Case: Fractal Arc Midi
Sound Card: Integrated
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64
October 4, 2011 6:59:12 PM

Another clue:

If Legacy USB 3.0 support is disabled in BIOS, the 18 second delay is at the Starting Windows screen

However...

If Legacy USB 3.0 support is enabled the delay happens in post and it's an 8 second delay
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October 4, 2011 11:05:34 PM

Another clue:

Only happens if it gets to Windows.

If I boot and stop at the BIOS, then reboot, no delay.

I can do that forever and never see the delay.

The delay only happens after the first time Windows loads, then it will keep happening until the drive is powered off and back on.
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Related resources
October 5, 2011 5:55:29 AM

Disabled nusb3mon.exe in startup, no change.

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a b G Storage
October 5, 2011 6:22:25 AM

Windows might be checking on the drive, since it was plugged in while shut down. No check is needed if drive is plugged in right before boot.
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a b G Storage
October 5, 2011 6:34:49 AM

You're lucky. At least your system boots with external storage plugged in. One of my systems (ECS motherboard) will not boot if it detects external storage.
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October 5, 2011 7:48:02 AM

nikorr said:
Windows might be checking on the drive, since it was plugged in while shut down. No check is needed if drive is plugged in right before boot.


Assuming that's what is happening...

1) If I leave the drive on during shutdown, then restart, the delay / windows check happens.

2) If I leave the drive on during shutdown, then turn the drive off then back on while the pc is off, then restart, the delay / windows check does not happen.

If Windows is setting some flag to do a check, it should always do the check as it has no idea the drive had it's power cycled (unless it's looking at S.M.A.R.T when it boots, which I doubt).

Thing that bugs me is the drive works fine without whatever the delay is doing, so it's obviously not necessary.

thx
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October 5, 2011 7:49:57 AM

Deleted partition, no change.

Unmounted drive before reboot, no change.

Unmounted then remounted drive before reboot, no change.

Note: remounting is the same behavior as the delay.
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a b G Storage
October 5, 2011 7:55:51 AM

That's my understanding too, it may save some setting .ini file while shutdown and if u unplug and plug back, it may not correspond with it anymore anymore.

-Of Course, I Could Be Wrong...-
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a b G Storage
October 5, 2011 8:01:01 AM

Is there an active attribute on your usb 3.0 drive in disk manager?
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October 5, 2011 8:28:19 AM

Have you tried leaving option "never go sleep mode" in windows for the external hdd?

It should be in energy saving options.
I dont think it IS that, but mayb your windows chokes since it needs to wake up the drive before it can load its own drivers? (Would be sorta funny).
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October 5, 2011 8:35:36 AM

Pyree said:
Is there an active attribute on your usb 3.0 drive in disk manager?


Nope
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October 5, 2011 8:46:13 AM

cats_Paw said:
Have you tried leaving option "never go sleep mode" in windows for the external hdd?



Not sure where that is
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a b G Storage
October 5, 2011 8:48:43 AM

-in disk manager-
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October 5, 2011 8:52:02 AM

Here's another thing that boggles my mind.

BIOS Legacy USB 3.0 support:

Enabled: Delay happens in post

Disabled: Delay happens at Windows Starting screen

So the 'DELAY' only happens after the first boot and only after Windows loads.

If it never sees Windows (keep rebooting from the BIOS), the delay never happens, but the delay happens in post (not Windows) depending on the Legacy USB 3.0 setting.

Bizarre

Keep the ideas coming, really appreciate it :) 
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October 5, 2011 8:54:27 AM

nikorr said:
-in disk manager-


You mean Device Manager or Disk Management?

Either way I see no power options for the drive.
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October 5, 2011 5:37:58 PM

Ran sfc /scannow, said could not repair all

Thru in Win 7, did startup repair, nothing to repair

The delay in Windows is long enough that the monitor goes to sleep :( 
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a b G Storage
October 5, 2011 7:30:42 PM

I went to sleep,


No, I just saw that Pyree wrote above already, so I referring to your questinion.

Pyree wrote :

Is there an active attribute on your usb 3.0 drive in disk manager?"


-----------------------------------------------------


But I now see that I have misread what u wanted....

I was not referring to the cats_paw's post at all

"cats_paw wrote :

Have you tried leaving option "never go sleep mode" in windows for the external hdd? "


..................................................................
So don't mind my post... "-in disk manager-"
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October 5, 2011 10:25:44 PM

nikorr said:
I went to sleep,




Same here
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October 5, 2011 10:27:17 PM

Killed MS Security Essentials, no change
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October 5, 2011 11:33:54 PM

Gonna disconnect the SSD and do a fresh install of Win 7 on my spare HD. (running out of ideas)

Will post results.
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October 6, 2011 9:01:54 AM

Scratch that, as someone alluded to earlier, I think the drive is going to sleep.

I haven't messed with it for hours. I just tried to use CrystalDiskInfo for another drive and there was a delay while the Fantom woke up.

Put the pc to sleep, woke write back up, launched CrystalDiskInfo and again had to wait for the Fantom.

Now I have to figure out if this is a Win 7 issue or a Samsung HD204UI issue.
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October 6, 2011 7:42:56 PM

Yeah, found those last night, have not had a chance yet, my Onkyo just decided it didn't like HDMI any more :( 

If the Fantom / Samsung never sees Windows the delay never happens. The delay is bad enough that I have no mouse, the monitor gets no signal, etc.., so I gotta keep trying to fix it.

But I gotta go get a new A/V receiver first :( 

thx
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a b G Storage
October 6, 2011 8:45:54 PM

Hi flaxseedoil1000

O boy... that ONKYO now... Do u have some critters?

My 2 cats successfully retired 1 keyboard, HDMI, bunch of chargers and pulled the plug on a USB stick - it is still MIA. And cable cord for extended wifi antenna too.

I see, it actually freezes the PC. Can u try it on another PC to be sure about it ?
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October 8, 2011 8:49:17 AM

nikorr said:
Hi flaxseedoil1000

O boy... that ONKYO now... Do u have some critters?

My 2 cats successfully retired 1 keyboard, HDMI, bunch of chargers and pulled the plug on a USB stick - it is still MIA. And cable cord for extended wifi antenna too.



Not a critter issue. The Onkyo 674 started having handshake issues until it warmed up a couple of years ago, so I have just left it on ever since. Ran so hot it probably cooked something. Audio still works so it's going in the barn.
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October 8, 2011 8:57:19 AM

nikorr said:


I see, it actually freezes the PC. Can u try it on another PC to be sure about it ?


I did try in on an XP machine. Acted a bit differently, but the driver on that machine is from 2001 so I don't think it was a good comparison. That machine boots so slow I would probably never notice the difference, lol.

I have 3 WD Caviar Greens internal which constantly park their heads, I never notice a delay with them.

It's definitely spinning down, then has to spin back up. I don't think that is the problem. The problem is it acts like it's searching the entire 2TB's for something, that's the delay. Yet it does not do it on the first boot.
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October 8, 2011 9:29:37 AM

Just found something in the logs.

These drivers are causing Windows to standby or hibernate slowly

Intel Rapid Storage Technology driver - x64

isStor.sys

Time taken: 14 seconds

Hmmmmm, that 14 seconds is close to the 18 second delay I am seeing.

May have to copy everything off the RAID, kill the raid in the BIOS and see what happens.
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a b G Storage
October 8, 2011 9:32:33 AM

Where there's a Will, there's a way.... Thumbs up : )
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October 8, 2011 10:34:50 PM

Well I changed the BIOS from RAID mode to AHCI mode and....

still happens :( 

At least I know it's not the RAID, which I now have to rebuild.
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a b G Storage
October 8, 2011 10:38:12 PM

BTW, if u try the Ext.HDD in another PC, is it the same?
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October 8, 2011 11:45:57 PM

All I have is an XP machine, driver is from 2001, it boot so slow it's hard to tell.

BTW

Changed mode in BIOS from AHCI back to RAID and my array came back, no need to rebuild. Nice.

I think at this point I am going to wipe the SSD, reinstall Win 7, then see what happens.
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a b G Storage
October 8, 2011 11:50:42 PM

Back to the step 0. Maybe it is just the way it is. Try to track down anyone with same drive, out of 580 000 users someone got to have one.

Or some neighbor kid with a PC and plug it in to see if it is normal. Or at work : )
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October 10, 2011 6:31:06 PM

Unplugged the SSD with Win 7 on it, installed Win 7 on formatted HDD.

Had to install Renesas USB 3.0 driver.

Reboot, same issue.

Disabled power management functions in Renesas Host Controller, same issue.

Out of ideas, guess I will have to use the work around of powering the drive off when I shutdown.

Thx for the company :) 
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!