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Building my first computer for MMO (WOW) Jan. 26, 2010

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January 26, 2010 11:01:57 PM

Hi,

I think I want to build a computer for the first time.

Is there a good place to get help building it, in case I don't trust anyone I know.

Also I was wondering if these parts are all compatible. I combined parts I read about in a forum and cheap high rated products from Newegg.

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA790GPT
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz
GPU: HIS Radeon HD 4650 1GB 128-bit DDR2
HD: Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB 7200 RPM
Case: Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
RAM: OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)
CD/DVD RW: Sony Optiarc 24X
Power Adapter: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W
Surge Protector: BELKIN BP112230-08 4320 Joules Pivot-Plug

I would like the computer to last.

Fitting a Fan
The case comes with a 120mm rear fan and a 140mm top fan.
I had ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler in my cart, but that gave me 13 items. Also, the specs for the case look like there is room for another 80mm fan, but that one is 92mm, so should I get it and replace one or both of the stock fans.

Integrated
Would a Sound Card make a difference in performance, and do the motherboards come integrated with audio stuff?

Net Working?
Could I go wireless to play WOW and get anywhere near the speed as a wired connection. Server? RAID? I don't really understand those two things.

I'd Do That
I dunno if I need much of these things for what I want to do with the computer. I'll probably just end up looking at it unassembled the rest of my life, so whats the use. Just kiddin, for now I may use it for basic school stuff, but I could also see myself being dragged back into World of Warcraft at any time and I do not have the patience for my old computer. Then, I would probably buy a game just to see what I got out of all my research. I want to be an alternative energy engineer so I could be installing a couple kinda big softwares, but I can't see that coming along for a couple years at least.

I Get Addicted To Everything I Do
So, if anyone knows if there are any parts I can replace that would lower the cost even slightly, but keep the performance level i'm looking for in WOW I'd appreciate it.

I'm More of a Tree Hugger Than a Hippie
I don't like using all this power and I'm not an expert inside the computer, so would you then recommend that I just take what I can get with a Dell or preferably an HP with similar specs as my custom build, or the one HP that has an Energy Star sticker that I might like is the TouchSmart 600t series. Again all my configurations come out to be around $1000, could I go for TouchSmart 300z even?

Thanks A lot,
Evan
a c 131 à CPUs
January 27, 2010 2:46:12 AM

Compatibility change:
Get dual channel DDR3 ram not DDR2. Your motherboard is an AM3 board that support DDR3

A new fan? Not unless you plan on overclocking. And you mention treehugger so I would think you would be more interested in undervolting.

Other than that, the build is solid. The power supply is overkill though. Even if you were to decide to get a better graphics card like a radeon 4850, you'd only need a good 500W corsair.
Speaking of which, I have no experience with WOW but from what I have heard, you'll get more performance for a 4850. Treehugger? Then go for a radeon 5670.

Motherboards these days come with rather good integrated sound. usually 5.1 or 7.1 surroundsound support.

Wireless? Yes you would get the speed but it would not be reliable. I would never game on anything but wired ethernet.

On the treehugger topic:
-Yeah you could go for the touchsmarts but they wouldn't perform even comparably to your build. Especially in games. The games simply would not run well at pretty settings.
-If you buy an Athlon IIx4 620 and overclock it to 3.2GHz on stock voltage and a stock heatsink, it will use less power and the extra 200MHz will likely make up for the lack of L3 cache. Not to mention it will cost less.
a c 133 à CPUs
January 27, 2010 3:41:38 AM

Eveything looks great but id suggest going with a dedicated sound card in my experience with onboards they kinda suck for sound quality and for gameing they really show there worse. i like sound blaster some people say they suck but i never had a problem with them. Sound Blaster X-fi are great cards
Related resources
January 27, 2010 3:51:14 AM

Mr Subs said:
Hi,

I think I want to build a computer for the first time.

Is there a good place to get help building it, in case I don't trust anyone I know.

Also I was wondering if these parts are all compatible. I combined parts I read about in a forum and cheap high rated products from Newegg.

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA790GPT
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz
GPU: HIS Radeon HD 4650 1GB 128-bit DDR2
HD: Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB 7200 RPM
Case: Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
RAM: OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)
CD/DVD RW: Sony Optiarc 24X
Power Adapter: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W
Surge Protector: BELKIN BP112230-08 4320 Joules Pivot-Plug

I would like the computer to last.

Fitting a Fan
The case comes with a 120mm rear fan and a 140mm top fan.
I had ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler in my cart, but that gave me 13 items. Also, the specs for the case look like there is room for another 80mm fan, but that one is 92mm, so should I get it and replace one or both of the stock fans.

Integrated
Would a Sound Card make a difference in performance, and do the motherboards come integrated with audio stuff?

Net Working?
Could I go wireless to play WOW and get anywhere near the speed as a wired connection. Server? RAID? I don't really understand those two things.

I'd Do That
I dunno if I need much of these things for what I want to do with the computer. I'll probably just end up looking at it unassembled the rest of my life, so whats the use. Just kiddin, for now I may use it for basic school stuff, but I could also see myself being dragged back into World of Warcraft at any time and I do not have the patience for my old computer. Then, I would probably buy a game just to see what I got out of all my research. I want to be an alternative energy engineer so I could be installing a couple kinda big softwares, but I can't see that coming along for a couple years at least.

I Get Addicted To Everything I Do
So, if anyone knows if there are any parts I can replace that would lower the cost even slightly, but keep the performance level i'm looking for in WOW I'd appreciate it.

I'm More of a Tree Hugger Than a Hippie
I don't like using all this power and I'm not an expert inside the computer, so would you then recommend that I just take what I can get with a Dell or preferably an HP with similar specs as my custom build, or the one HP that has an Energy Star sticker that I might like is the TouchSmart 600t series. Again all my configurations come out to be around $1000, could I go for TouchSmart 300z even?

Thanks A lot,
Evan


I think for something like WoW you would be more than fine with the onboard audio. The realtek integrated actually performs fairly well in my experience. You'd likely have to spend quite a bit ($50+) to really see any benefit in sound quality.

Wireless can be flaky, especially if you have a lot of electronics, microwaves, things that emit electronic noise in the area. I'd try to rock a wired connection.

You'll get more bang for your buck building your own system, plus then you get the experience of building it and learning from your mistakes. If you really hate doing your own troubleshooting or just feel that its beyond you, I'd shoot for the prefabbed Dell or HP with the warranty and service agreement.
a b à CPUs
January 27, 2010 4:19:32 PM

Follow Enzo's suggestions for ram and PSU, they are sound advice.

As to videocard, we really need to know the resolution at which you are going to be playing, the Radeon 4650 may very well not be able to deliver what you are hoping for.
When looking at your choice of CPU the Radeon GPU seems to be well below what it should be for a gaming machine.

For HD you should take a look at

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152181&cm_re=samsung_f3-_-22-152-181-_-Product

it is newer, faster and cheaper.

For a gaming machine you would be better off spending less on the CPU and more on the GPU.
a b à CPUs
January 27, 2010 4:23:53 PM

The 940 Black Edition phenom II only works with DDR2 mobos, so look for a 945 instead.
a b à CPUs
January 27, 2010 5:07:55 PM

The cpu you have is an AM2+runs about $146 and eats 125w. The motherboard that you want is an AM3 and the ram you have will work with AM2+. I would drop the AM2+ stuff and go all AM3. The AM3 cpu that you would be looking at is the 945 and cost about $150 and uses 125w. For your tree hugger side there is a 945 that uses only 95w but it cost $161. If you are looking to save some money in this area you could go with a 550BE which cost about $90; it is a powerful chip but is not as fast as the other.

If you would like to cut down the cost of the mother board here are 3 other AM3 motherboards that cost a little less.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Here is good ddr3 ram that runs at 1.5v instead of 1.65v : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I would go with a better gpu if gaming is your main focus. Putting out an extra $30 on a 4850 would be well worth it.

As stated above your power supply is a little over kill. Corsair makes good power supplies so stick with them, but go for one that puts out less wattage.

All prices are in usd. Let us know what your thinking. [:tapko:3]
January 27, 2010 6:41:44 PM

If you buy an ATI 5xxx series card for the same price you will get full Direct X 11 support and maybe even a boost in performance. Also Xigmatek makes really great cpu coolers.
January 27, 2010 10:02:25 PM

Hi again and many thanks,
I've done some more browsing with all this advice. Today, I learned the importance of the cache in the CPU, so I may end up wanting to get the Intel i5 with L3 and Resident Evil 5 free. But, I dunno if these motherboards are more compatible with AMD or Intel, nor if I should pick out an nVidia GPU if I choose the Intel. Anyway, here are some parts I am having trouble deciding on...

Motherboard: ASUS M4A77TD AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD
ASRock M3A770DE AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD
GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD2 LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel

CPU: AMD Athlon II X4 620 Propus 2.6GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor
Intel Core i5-650 Clarkdale 3.2GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor
Intel Core i3-530 Clarkdale 2.93GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor

GPU: HIS H485FM1GH Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP
XFX HD-485X-ZDFC Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP
SAPPHIRE 100258-1GHDMI Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP
SAPPHIRE 100289L Radeon HD 5670 (Redwood) 1GB 128-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP

HD: SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST3500418AS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"

RAM: A-DATA Gaming Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI
Antec BP550 Plus 550W Continuous Power ATX12V V2.2 Modular Active PFC Power Supply

In my opinion...
I thought the L3 cache might be really helpful, but I guess if I'm gonna go for something top of the line I should have picked out a quad-core with it here. Both the higher cache and more cores make it really expensive, so I would probably go with Enzo Matrix's advice on the AMD Athlon X4 620 CPU. Then again I am big on saving long-term, so would a nicer CPU save me time and would the chip itself last as longer with higher Hertz and/or Watts? Next, I guess I'd take Pro Llama up on the ASUS M4 motherboard. For some reason I thought the XFX graphics card was cool because it has an S-video slot, but I really can't decide between those video cards up there. I like the cheap HD's, but there are more and better reviews on the Western Digital Caviar Black. What does the higher cache on the HD do? Lastly, I could use a little more help picking out the memory, power adapter, and operating system. All the feedback is awesome thanks, and more would be appreciated.

To be continued...
Evan

P.S. I probably won't need to run the graphics that high. I was going to buy a 1680x1080 monitor, and would likely keep my resolution at least that low to save energy. Yet, the way I built this computer makes me wonder about testing its high graphic performance at least a few times. So, sorry one more thing-- the monitor. Also, it is possible that I buy a new game withinin the next year that uses 4 cores like gta4 does, but I guess there is probably more of a chance that I don't.
a b à CPUs
January 27, 2010 11:36:06 PM

You can't go wrong with the X4 620, it's the best bang-for-buck cpu period.

Say you get that now, then figure it isn't fast enough in 2 years time? The money you save now is going to be more than worth what you spend in 2 years.

For a gaming pc, always go with cheaper cpu and better gpu. Keep them within reason of course, but always gravitate towards a better gpu.

Example - An Athlon X4 620 with an HD 5850 will thrash an i5 750 with an HD 5770 in any game.
a c 131 à CPUs
January 27, 2010 11:41:12 PM

jennyh said:
You can't go wrong with the X4 620, it's the best bang-for-buck cpu period.

Say you get that now, then figure it isn't fast enough in 2 years time? The money you save now is going to be more than worth what you spend in 2 years.

For a gaming pc, always go with cheaper cpu and better gpu. Keep them within reason of course, but always gravitate towards a better gpu.

Example - An Athlon X4 620 with an HD 5850 will thrash an i5 750 with an HD 5770 in any game.

Except GTA4 and FSX lol
a b à CPUs
January 28, 2010 1:12:28 PM

I think either of the systems you have listed would give you a good gaming experience at your targeted resolution.

A few comments:

I would choose an i5 750 over the i5 650, cost is about the same, but you would get a better performing system overall, gaming included.

Don't buy a Radeon 5670 for gaming, go with a 5750 or 5770.
The 5750 performance is about equal to a 4850, actually, in most test it's a bit faster, the 5770 naturally being the best of the 3.

As to the Western Digital having more reviews, well, that's natural, the Samsung F3 has just recently been released, while the WD has been out about 2 years.

Of the listed ram I would go with the G.skill, and of the listed PSUs my choice for the system you have listed would be the Corsair unless you plan to crossfire, in that case I would look what else is out there.
a b à CPUs
January 28, 2010 2:10:41 PM

enzo matrix said:
Except GTA4 and FSX lol

Yeah, for that I think Athlon II 630 would be needed :p 
January 30, 2010 11:54:12 PM

Hi, here is another update at what i'm looking at now. I love advice, thanks.

Motherboard: ASUS M4A77TD AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core
Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core
AMD Athlon II X4 630 Propus 2.8GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

GPU: SAPPHIRE 100283L Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP

HD: Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"

RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)

PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Compatible with Core i7

Sound Card: ASUS Xonar DS 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Interface Audio Card

I am still thinking about the parts in bold. Sorry, if I haven't gone with the advice given to me on some of them... I am still looking at L3 cache processors, because I feel like $50-100 may be worth the time I save on uploading/downloading. Then, two pieces I forgot to mention earlier are the OS and the Sound Card. I could only find a 64-bit windows 7 on new egg. I am guessing I would have to get XP professional if I wanted that in 64. Will this computer be quieter than most and will I not need to worry about the cooling with this build?

I was wondering...
Could I save around $300 for now by testing one of these stock desktops, then upgrade the GPU if it is not sufficient or the PSU if that would save power? But, then the OS might be a problem.

CyberpowerPC Gamer Ultra 2038 Athlon II X4 630(2.8GHz) 4GB DDR2 500GB NVIDIA GeForce G210 Windows 7
HP Pavilion P6310F(AY018AA#ABA) Athlon II X4 630(2.8GHz) 6GB DDR3 1TB NVIDIA GeForce 9100 Windows 7

Thanks for your time,
Evan
a b à CPUs
January 31, 2010 2:01:25 PM



Either of these would give you a good gaming experience, to compare the CPUs you can take a look here

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=109&p2=105

just choose the CPUs you want to compare at the top.





Yes, go with Windows 7 Home Premium.





For starters, just wait on buying the sound card, integrated soundcards on todays motherboards are pretty decent, and should you find that you would want to step up to a discrete soundcard, all you have to do is plug it into your motherboard, start up the PC and install the drivers (disabling the onboard in BIOS).



Mr Subs said:
Will this computer be quieter than most and will I not need to worry about the cooling with this build?


Well, kind of difficult to answer, as noise tolerance is different from person to person, but no, this should not make much noise, usually what makes a lot of noise is cheap fast spinning case fans, video cards really being pushed and the fan thus spinning fast to combat the heat being produced, and aftermarket heatsinks with a high CFM fan.



Mr Subs said:
I was wondering...
Could I save around $300 for now by testing one of these stock desktops, then upgrade the GPU if it is not sufficient or the PSU if that would save power? But, then the OS might be a problem.

CyberpowerPC Gamer Ultra 2038 Athlon II X4 630(2.8GHz) 4GB DDR2 500GB NVIDIA GeForce G210 Windows 7
HP Pavilion P6310F(AY018AA#ABA) Athlon II X4 630(2.8GHz) 6GB DDR3 1TB NVIDIA GeForce 9100 Windows 7


Neither of these would be good for gaming, the first one linked uses a discrete Geforce 210 while the other uses an integrated videocard Geforce 9100, and both would make you regret the purchase as their performance in gaming is atrocious.

Take a look at this link to see how the Geforce 210 matches up against other cards

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2521-8.html

And here for a test of the Geforce 210

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gt-220,2445-8.html



Oh, and talking of cases, have you decided on one already?
January 31, 2010 8:29:59 PM

Thanks for the CPU comparison link. That was really helpful, and I bookmarked it. Seems as though the i5 750 destroys all the amd CPUs.

I was thinking about

Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower

That's sold out though, so now I am looking at

NZXT LEXA S LEXS - 001BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
or
Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower

I just found this offer that ends today, but actually turns out it only saves me $3 and the PSU looks too powerful.

Intel Core i5 750 + GIGABYTE P55 Chipset SuperCombo

Thanks,
Evan
a b à CPUs
January 31, 2010 9:09:08 PM

DAYME , thats a good deal. Grab it i say unless you can find any other thing comparable but that is a great deal and i would get it but ihave no use for it...
February 1, 2010 2:01:53 AM

It is a good deal, but I get almost the same amount of rebate with the parts I have decided on with the help of this thread.

The motherboard is $20 more. I don't know much about the difference there, but I am always hearing good things about ASUS. The hardrive has 1.5 TBs and runs at 5900 rpms. That might be nice for noise reduction and a little less heat/power, but I would rather have the speed of the 500 GB 7200. I shouldn't even need that much space.
I am already saving power with a PSU that sucks up 400 watts, whereas the combo comes with a Rosewill that is $5 more by itself and runs on 700 watts. I think I will end up getting the same processor, memory sticks, and case that the combo deal offers. So, I think my stuff is better at $554.94 rather then the deal that is $551.99.

Adding in the graphics card, a surge protector, and a pair of glasses my total comes to $839.91 w/o a monitor.

Many thanks,
Evan
a b à CPUs
February 1, 2010 6:32:25 AM

Mr Subs said:
When I started this thread my total was $200, and the computer would have run slower. I have no idea how it got so much better for so much less.

Many thanks,
Evan


Please, don't let any of us talk you into something, that you are not prepared for.

What would really help, and also is the way to build a gaming system, usually, is for you to give us a budget, and we'll go from there.

First decide on a budget, then choose a monitor (which you already have) so you know at which resolution that you will be gaming. Then, choose a videocard that has performance to match the resolution, and build the rest of they system from there as budget allows.

Yes, the i5 750 is a great CPU, but compared to the AMD offerings you have listed, it comes with a premium pricetag, and going AMD would save you some money to lower the budget/get a better GPU.

Again, please choose a budget and we'll help you out as best we can, don't end up with a $2k system just because someone on here says it's the best you can get, if you had your eyes set on a $700 system or how ever much your budget may be.
February 1, 2010 11:30:38 AM

I noticed you narrowed down your video card to one option, the 5770. While this is a great card, the 5750 is similar in performance and actually draws less power than the 5770, and you can get directx11 support on both cards (not really important now, but will be in the future).

I figured this was important for you for two reasons. First was your tree hugger comment, trying to reduce power usage. Second was your budget, and ~ $20-$30 cheaper, the 5750 is in your ballpark.

Check out Tom's review on the two cards here, http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5770,2446.... The 5770 or the 5750 will be the next card I am updating my computer to.

Also feel free to check out 3dmark, http://service.futuremark.com/hardware/. The next best single card is the GTX 275, but its availability on newegg is nonexistant, and its $100 more than the 5770.
February 1, 2010 7:39:06 PM

The 5750 sounds good i'll check it out and probably go with that. I'll look at some of the nVidia cards too. My Dell computer has lasted me 5 years. I am most concerned with making a computer that will last. I have a feeling that I won't be waiting on this computer to perform most of its tasks and it still won't use a great deal of power.

I would like to say I have a $700 budget, but I am definitely happy with the parts as of now. I will take another look at the amd CPU's and compare the prices, but the i5 750 is significantly better at using less power.

I took out the comment about the cost of when I started the thread from my last post, because I forgot to add in the cost of the monitor which I only had in my cart back then. I meant to say the cost is $200 less then when I started, but I realized the cost is about the same as when I started. However the system will actually work now and be awesome, so thank you very much everyone.

Best regards,
Evan
February 1, 2010 9:31:24 PM

One problem with the 5750 GPUs...
Half of them say they require a 450 Watt PSU or higher.

Updating GPUs I am looking at...
February 1, 2010 10:06:54 PM
February 1, 2010 11:11:27 PM

Ok I see, so I shouldn't need more than the 400 W as long as I don't crossfire.

What is the difference between GDDR5 and DDR5?

If I go with a Sapphire...
Should I get the 5750 or the 5770?
Should I get the Vapor-X type?

Vapor-X 5750 $145 OC Edition?
Vapor-X 5770 $185 marked down to $175 until 2/7

or

The other Sapphire 5750 is the cheapest 5750 GPU. $130
The other Sapphire 5770 has a customers choice award. $180 promo code for $10 off ends today
February 2, 2010 12:45:08 PM

I have to throw my word in just to warn you. I picked up an HD 4830 last year to upgrade my Nvidia 7900GTO for WoW and other games. I am running a Nvidia motherboard btw. I did not see any change in fps with the HD 4830 and sometimes saw worse fps in WoW compared to the 7900GTO. To rule out drivers, I played a few different FPS games and the 4830 just raped them, so my problem was only with WoW. I searched forums, tried different drivers, changed settings (in game and out), and everything I could think of for a solid week with no improvement. I went out and bought a 9800GTX+ and my problem was solved.

Don't take my word for it though. You can read about all the people having problems with WoW and other MMO's right here: http://forums.amd.com/game/categories.cfm?catid=229&for...

You might not have any problems at all, but if you feel your ATI card is not performing like it should.....you might be one of the unlucky few. Most seem to blame Ati's drivers for their problem because the cards can do really well in all other types of games.
February 2, 2010 2:53:59 PM

Thanks for the heads up. I had heard that nVidia cards normally did better with WoW.

Please read these two threads.

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=229&threadid=125972&enterthread=y

This thread states that Wow is more CPU intensive then GPU intensive. This makes sense to me, since the game is mainly just cartoony polygons. Whereas the CPU seems like it is constantly transferring large amounts of data. I hope the i5 750 will do me good, but I'm not convinced on the CPU or the GPU yet.

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=229&threadid=125570&enterthread=y

If I end up getting a Radeon should I turn off the vertical sync, or are some of the cards really just defects.

In another thread someone mentions a friend having similar problems with WoW using a GTX 295. The same person claims his problem was fixed by not using dual GPUs.
a b à CPUs
February 2, 2010 3:07:50 PM

Well on your first suggestion looks good except for the ram which you should know by now and the card is to weak for wow on max settings unless you are playing at 1024x768 in windowed mode. A 4850 or better would go FAR even when multy boxing in wow. The cpu will hold up nicely and the drive will fair better than mine.
February 2, 2010 3:19:21 PM

What is wrong with the ram? What do you mean first suggestion? Are you looking at my first post or my latest?

What about 1680 settings, isn't that in the middle? I thought a 5770 was better than a 4850.

O, is it the bits that are important?
February 2, 2010 3:22:52 PM

Mr Subs said:
Thanks for the heads up. I had heard that nVidia cards did better with WoW.

Please read these two threads.

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=229&threadid=125972&enterthread=y

This thread states that Wow is more CPU intensive then GPU intensive. This makes sense to me, since the game is mainly just cartoony polygons. Whereas the CPU seems like it is constantly transferring large amounts of data. I hope the i5 750 will do me good, but I'm not convinced on the CPU or the GPU yet.

http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=229&threadid=125570&enterthread=y

If I end up getting a Radeon should I turn off the vertical sync, or are some of the cards really just defects.


An I5 will do great imo. You will need to set the Affinity Mask in the wow config file to take advantage of the I5 or any multicore CPU you decide on. I googled up this link for you and it should be the same one I followed for my system (at work so the link is blocked). http://www.wowwiki.com/CVar_processAffinityMask

Turning off vertical sync can help but it might also cause screen tearing. Some people have no problems running WoW with ATI cards and others do. It's really a gamble either way. Depending on how inconvenienced you want to be if you go with an ATI card and it doesn't work for you, you might want to shell out the extra bucks and pick up a video card locally (Best Buy etc.) so you can return it if needed.

It does sound like ATI is ironing out their drivers some based on the first link, 3rd post (beta release candidate drivers). I might have to experiement on the wife's computer soon with the HD 4830 sitting in the closet. XD


February 2, 2010 3:31:53 PM

Should I go with this instead?

SAPPHIRE 100270SR Radeon HD 4850 X2 2GB 512-bit (256-bit x 2) GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP $210

or is that overkill, and I could get away with one of these:

SAPPHIRE 100258-1GHDMI Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP $125
XFX HD-485X-ZDFC Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP $125

or even this:

SAPPHIRE 100245HDMI Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP $100

Why is this one the cheapest?

What are some nVidia equivalents?

Pretty soon my thread will have a link to every computer part out there.

I should set the affinity mask to 15 with the i5 750?

a b à CPUs
February 2, 2010 4:04:41 PM

Mr Subs said:
Should I go with this instead?

SAPPHIRE 100270SR Radeon HD 4850 X2 2GB 512-bit (256-bit x 2) GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP $210

or is that overkill


It would allow you to run with a higher quality settings and FPS where a single 4850 would struggle to keep up with the load, it all depends on the game.




Yes, you can get by on a 4850, but for a PC targeted at gaming, and at 1680x1050, I would certainly not go any lower, and would rather get a less expensive CPU to get more GPU power.

The last one is cheaper as it has 512 MB of ram, unlike 1 GB as the first two linked.


Mr Subs said:
What are some nVidia equivalents?

Pretty soon my thread will have a link to every computer part out there.

I should set the affinity mask to 15 with the i5 750?


Nvidia equivalents to a 4850, 5750 would be the GTS 250, and for the Radeon 5770 it would be GTX 260.

Whichever is best comes down to the game at hand, just like mhughes81 posted, WoW apparently runs better on Nvidia architecture, and another game may run faster on a Radeon.
February 3, 2010 12:02:06 AM

I am having difficulty deciding still. It seems there are pros and cons to whatever I decide.

I think if I choose AMD I will go for the ATI GPU, and if I choose Intel I will go with a nVidia card.

For the CPU...
I think I would like the i5 750, but if an L2 cache is truly all I will need I would be glad to go with the AMD 630 Propus.

So, if I go with the 630...
I feel like a 5770 could be a risky choice. Running the 4850 x2 would be insane, but could be loud and annoying. I am not sure if the single 4850 or the 5750 would be sufficient. Maybe if I played at 1024 bits it would. I might be able to handle that.

If I decide on the i5 750...
This NY VCGGTX260CXPB GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP looks alright, but it only supports Directx 10 and costs $190. Also, the i5 choice adds $100 itself. So, about $150 more for last-gen tech with a little more power. I don't think so.

Back to the subject of CPUs...
I listened to this really long video that I do not recommend watching, since you can't see the powerpoint anyway. Listening is okay if you are an electronic genius I guess. I'll re-iterate something that gave me another question if you would rather not bother checking it out.

http://www.infoq.com/presentations/click-crash-course-modern-hardware

This guy says something about an L1 cache being the fastest and smallest, the L2 being 10% larger and 10% slower, and the L3 being 10% larger than the L2 and 10% slower. Then, he says something about misses. That really confuses me. I know how the cache works basically. Cache is a fast small memory inside the DIA or something close to those initials that makes commands and stuff process faster. I guess it makes sense that smaller caches would be faster, since they were built so small for some reason. My question: Is there a good middle ground with the L2 because of L2 caches being faster than L3s, or is this only in cases that are not relevant to how I would use the computer.

nVidia elite caught my eye...
Should I go with the Propus with the L2 cache and a 5770 because of Directx11, or should I wait till march or april for the new nVidia elite cards to come out to make a decision.

Thanks again,
Evan

Best solution

a b à CPUs
February 3, 2010 1:14:56 PM
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Don't get so caught up in the different cache levels and amounts, yes, they play a part in how well the CPUs performs in games, but take a look at the benchmarks, especially of those running engines of the games you intent to play, and make a decision based on that.

Question really is, are you ready to pay the premium now and have a great performing system, or would you rather pay less and upgrade to a more powerful system at a later date.

If you want the powerful system now, then the i5 is the way to go, if all you want is a cheap, good performing CPU for current games on the Intel platform go with an i3 530, for an AMD platform look for a Phenom II x3 720 or a Phenom II x4 955.

For videocard, there's so many ways to go with this. Do you want to be ready for when games that truly utilizes DX11 are going to be released, then the 5770 would be a nice option, are you willing to pay a bit more, as the 4850 X2 you're looking at suggests, then hold out and see what the (soon to be released) 5830 brings to the table.

You might have to wait a bit on the new nvidia cards, slated to be released within the next two months, however, all we have heard so far, is that the first two cards to be released will be their high-end models, when mainstream cards will be released is anyones guess.

If you do not see yourself play much else but WoW, and that will be your main focus in the foreseeable future, you might want to go with a GTS 250 (GTX 260 if you want that bit of extra performance in games, but at a premium) and upgrade in a years time when (hopefully) more games will have been released that make good use of DX11.

If you have no problem waiting 2-4 months, then yes, we would probably either have or know when nvidia's mainstream models will be released, and their power relative to AMDs, and you would be able to base your decision on that.

Hmm not sure if that was of any use to you, it really comes down to what you feel and how soon you need this new PC.
February 4, 2010 12:00:01 AM

Yes, that was very helpful information. Every comment has been very helpful to me.

Now that my classes are starting, I may need to wait until they are finished to make this computer. I'm taking Astronomy, Physics Calculus, and Calculus II. I already have AP physics credit, but need the calculus based classes for the University of Maryland. I also got a D the last time I took Calculus II, so I do not want to start by getting distracted with computer games this time around. I don't think I can handle those classes while playing WoW. Also, I don't see any good games I want to play, and have not gotten into really high levels of education to need to use demanding software.

I did just meet someone in my Calc class that says he has helped a friend build a computer before. The only part I'm really worried about though is installing drivers, and I don't even know what BIOs is.

Anyway, I will come back to this thread when I am ready to make my decision. I don't mean I am going to revive it: just review it. The parts will hopefully go down in price within the next few months. Now that I have the idea to look at benchmarks I'm sure the parts will come to be easy pickens.

Over and out,
Evan
February 4, 2010 12:00:28 AM

Best answer selected by Mr Subs.
!