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Jennyh, have you seen these? Phenom II vs i7 vs c2dualcore

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January 29, 2010 11:09:13 PM

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-h...

You've seen these right jenny?

Pretty sure I remember a past argument going something like this.

Jennyh: phenom ii > i7, let alone i5

Me: Benchmarks with low resolutions show us that the i7 out-performs phenom ii when the gpu bottleneck is lifted.

Jennyh: i7 just runs better at low resolutions, it is not due to bottlenecking.

Well... now that we finally have benchmarks with a stronger gpu setup than a single 5870 (5870xfire) on resolutions most of us actually play at we can see who was right. And imagine that, once the second 5870 is added the i7 creams phenom ii. A lot of times we even see the i7 winning at 2.7 against the phenom ii at 4.1ghz.

Is this yet another site that is paid by intel to lie or would you admit defeat and stop spreading this phenom ii > i7 in games.

The only time phenom ii wins is when there is a gpu bottleneck present, and it is almost never more than a few fps (the garbage a lot of reviews show).
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January 29, 2010 11:14:55 PM

Spintel Paid Schill!!! :kaola: 

all i can say is yay for the i7 but it isn't worth the price

and uh oh, another flame thread that will be 18 pages long have one more banned person at the end :sarcastic:  :cry: 
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January 29, 2010 11:21:15 PM

Jesus you are slow aren't you?

I already got banned over a thread with these benchmarks, but thanks for letting me point out the flaws once more. :) 

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Despite my using fast DDR2 modules in the system, the integrated memory controller of the AMD processor imposed some limitations resulting in a performance reduction. I could not use CAS Latency 4, Command Rate 1T and a step-up memory divisor. Unfortunately, I did not have two good 2GB modules and it was not right to sacrifice 2GB of RAM (by removing two modules) to benchmark modern games in Windows 7. So, I tried to squeeze what I could out of my components


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I want to note that I did not deliberately slow down the AMD platform. I only tried to overclock it as best as I could with the components at hand.


LAWL.

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The use of different system memory, DDR3 for the Intel Core i7 platform and DDR2 for the AMD Phenom II X4 platform, makes it impossible to compare these two platforms directly.


And finally, the main one...

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One more pitfall for the AMD platform in this test session was PCI Express. The Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-DS4H mainboard is based on the AMD 790GX chipset which supports two ATI Radeon cards in CrossFireX only as PCIe x16 + PCIe x8, as opposed to both platforms from Intel which support two PCIe x16.


All of that was on the page you linked btw. Try reading your links instead of being dazzled by coloured bars mmkay?
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January 29, 2010 11:24:57 PM

Yeah I wanted to mention I wasn't trying to start a flame war... just wanted to prove a point is all, and wanted to shed some light on the subject (and nay-sayers) and help anyone trying to decide between systems.

Also I'm not trying to scare people away from amd because as you can see (for the money) phenom ii is still has fantastic performance.
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January 29, 2010 11:26:17 PM

jennyh said:
Jesus you are slow aren't you?

I already got banned over a thread with these benchmarks, but thanks for letting me point out the flaws once more. :) 

Quote:
Despite my using fast DDR2 modules in the system, the integrated memory controller of the AMD processor imposed some limitations resulting in a performance reduction. I could not use CAS Latency 4, Command Rate 1T and a step-up memory divisor. Unfortunately, I did not have two good 2GB modules and it was not right to sacrifice 2GB of RAM (by removing two modules) to benchmark modern games in Windows 7. So, I tried to squeeze what I could out of my components


Quote:
I want to note that I did not deliberately slow down the AMD platform. I only tried to overclock it as best as I could with the components at hand.


LAWL.

Quote:
The use of different system memory, DDR3 for the Intel Core i7 platform and DDR2 for the AMD Phenom II X4 platform, makes it impossible to compare these two platforms directly.


And finally, the main one...

Quote:
One more pitfall for the AMD platform in this test session was PCI Express. The Gigabyte GA-MA790GP-DS4H mainboard is based on the AMD 790GX chipset which supports two ATI Radeon cards in CrossFireX only as PCIe x16 + PCIe x8, as opposed to both platforms from Intel which support two PCIe x16.


All of that was on the page you linked btw. Try reading your links instead of being dazzled by coloured bars mmkay?


You forgot to add that using the scientific method, basic mathematics and you adding all of those shortfalls together still doesn't come close to making up for the performance deficit we see the Phenom II x4 experience in those tests.

Therefore when looking at the big picture (which architecture is faster than the other) the end result would be the same regardless of these inconsistencies. What you can't use those benchmarks for is to gauge how much faster i7 is over Phenom II X4 but you can use them to claim that i7 is indeed faster.

I think you forgot to mention that. :) 
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January 29, 2010 11:26:35 PM

jennyh said:
Jesus you are slow aren't you?

I already got banned over a thread with these benchmarks, but thanks for letting me point out the flaws once more. :) 


I am not slow you are the one who is slow you just made another personal attack, and i wonder what got you banned :sarcastic: 


and wow i agree with Jennyh on those quotes
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January 29, 2010 11:27:06 PM

Now it's my turn.

Anybody find fault *anywhere* with this review.

Point out the inconsistencies, where the AMD system has any advantage. Look at each test setup and tell me that you could get a closer comparison.

Now tell me, which of these two articles is closer to the truth.
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January 29, 2010 11:27:40 PM

Only thing I have to say is why is the review using a AM2+ MOBO and ddr2 ram for the AM3 CPU ??? - you'd think they would use an AM3 MOBO with the same DDR3 RAM they used for the I7 !!
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January 29, 2010 11:29:05 PM

Upendra09 said:
I am not slow you are the one who is slow you just made another personal attack, and i wonder what got you banned :sarcastic: 


and wow i agree with Jennyh on those quotes


I wasn't talking about you lol upend.
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January 29, 2010 11:31:27 PM

ElMoIsEviL said:
You forgot to add that using the scientific method, basic mathematics and you adding all of those shortfalls together still doesn't come close to making up for the performance deficit we see the Phenom II x4 experience in those tests.

Therefore when looking at the big picture (which architecture is faster than the other) the end result would be the same regardless of these inconsistencies. What you can't use those benchmarks for is to gauge how much faster i7 is over Phenom II X4 but you can use them to claim that i7 is indeed faster.

I think you forgot to mention that. :) 


You should go apply that to your last thread, oh yeah nehalem beats opteron in folding too right? :na: 
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January 29, 2010 11:31:42 PM

More absent than slow. :p 

Yeah I noticed the memory differences but didn't see the rest/commentary, figured 1200mhz w/ 5lat was enough. However I will mention that 8x is more than enough for a 5870. The loss is around 5%.

I can't see these things making THAT much of a difference but I guess we'll have to wait for a better review...

Btw jenny you act very bitchy, I can see why you got banned. I'm not trying to be-little you or challenge your intelligence, like you are mine.
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January 29, 2010 11:40:29 PM

Raidur said:
Btw jenny you act very bitchy, I can see why you got banned. I'm not trying to be-little you or challenge your intelligence, like you are mine.


Well last I knew being 'bitchy' wasn't a bannable offence lol.

I'd love to see how you dealt with being called out btw. And not once, or twice, but by numerous 'men'...sometimes with their friends as well. They even tried to get me banned deliberately, don't you know?

So yeah, forgive me if I treat you with the disdain you deserve. I don't think I'm better than you, I know I am.
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January 29, 2010 11:45:23 PM

Btw jenny that benchmark further proves my point. The i7 obviously needs much less ghz than the phenomm ii to run the 5970 to its full capabilities. Once that is reached the phenom ii pulls ahead by only a few fps, as I mentioned.

The major flaw with this benchmark is they only used one resolution, causing the cpu to be needed even less.
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January 29, 2010 11:53:14 PM

Wow. Before I had respect for you jenny. So much for that. If you want to flame go to amdzone. I'm surprised they even let you stay if you make statementss like that.
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January 29, 2010 11:57:39 PM

What the Xbit benchies really show is that the 'old' E8400 is not quite ready to roll over and play dead just yet, doing it for the duelies yeah baby!
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January 30, 2010 12:16:15 AM

i7 > i5Quad >/~ 45nm Core2Quad ~ 45nm Phenom II Quad > AthlonIIQuad >/~ 65nm Core2Quad >/~ Phenom I Quad

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January 30, 2010 12:18:44 AM

jennyh said:
You should go apply that to your last thread, oh yeah nehalem beats opteron in folding too right? :na: 

Yes, Nehalem beats Opteron when folding.
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January 30, 2010 12:45:40 AM

E8400, ah yeah I love that cpu. It keeps up damn well, especially when you drive it to 4.0ghz. That cpu made a lot of gamers happy when it first released. :)  and still can.
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January 30, 2010 12:50:50 AM

so close to being closed...
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January 30, 2010 12:53:03 AM

:)  It's still working for me, tbh I am beginning to wonder just which upcoming game is going to be the one that causes my three year old gaming rig to croak.
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January 30, 2010 3:15:38 AM

test
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January 30, 2010 3:17:26 AM

second test
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January 30, 2010 3:17:57 AM

it ain't workin :heink: 
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January 30, 2010 3:30:06 AM

victory!!!!!!!

i am going to get so much hate from reynod soon

anyway, i think we should on the Phenom II being good for gaming and multitasking while the i7 is good for immense calculations
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January 30, 2010 3:47:27 AM

Well I guess you could utilize the test system the guy had for you know, the platform upgradeability that AMD touts since most people with a Phenom II did have AM2+ and DDR2.

I think its a legit benchmark. DDR3 has no performance gains over DDR2 in gaming, onlyin memory bandwidth which gaming does not need that much at all hence why a old C2Q system on the FSB with a little over half the memory bandwidth of a Phenom II can keep up in games.

As for the PCIe, x8/x8 is not enough to bottleneck anything. Multiple tests from multiple sites show that PCIe 2.0 x8/x8 loses maybe 1FPS at most and even PCIe 1.1 x16/x16 goes as fast as PCIe 2.0 x16/x16. Until that is proven otherwise x8/x8 will be fine.

in fact I am willing to bet that PCIe 3.0 x16 is out BEFORE PCIe 2.0 x16 is bottlenecked just like PCIe 1.0 x16 came out well before AGP was bottlenecked. If you can find a AGP HD3850, it does pretty much as well as a PCIe 3850.

I hope the guy gets his hands on a AM3 mobo so he can retest and see if the claims people make is true. If not having DDR3 and x16/x16 PCIe 2.0 will make up for Phenom IIs low scores or if its just a bunch of BS from people.
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January 30, 2010 4:29:06 AM

This review is indicative of why I never bought a PHII over a i7.

Yes there are a good few times when there isn't much between the CPU's, but there are also a lot where the i7 has a clear lead.

How often does one find Windows apps where the PHII has a clear lead over the i7?

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January 30, 2010 8:09:36 AM

Yep, only a fool would buy an i7 over a Phenom II based on a review where the reviewer starts by making a bunch of apologies over the AMD system.

The Legionhardware uses identical hardware, the Phenom II wins most. That's all that matters, anyone who tries to find fault there and claims the xbit one has more validity is frankly, whacked in the head.
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January 30, 2010 8:16:54 AM

jennyh said:
Yep, only a fool would buy an i7 over a Phenom II based on a review where the reviewer starts by making a bunch of apologies over the AMD system.


Before you post somthing, you are supposed to be absolutly sure about that thing.

Go and check the web.
i7 outperforms Phenom II
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January 30, 2010 8:42:43 AM

mfarrukh said:
Before you post somthing, you are supposed to be absolutly sure about that thing.

Go and check the web.
i7 outperforms Phenom II


I am absolutely sure about it, and i have the *only* link that proves it.

This is what happens when the top AMD system meets the top i7 system



The Phenom II X4 results were quite different to those recorded when testing with the Core i7 processors, though this was not necessarily a bad thing. When operating at lower clock speeds, the Phenom II X4 did not fair all that well, as we saw a sharp decline in performance. However when clocked at 3.0GHz and beyond, the Phenom II X4 really picked up the pace, and in many cases was able to outclass the Core i7.

That link tells me with 100% certainty that Phenom II outperforms i7 in gaming. There is no possibility of getting two more closely matched systems as the i7 and Phenom II systems are there.

What does that say to you? Come back once you have a good answer and not before then.
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January 30, 2010 8:52:00 AM

jennyh said:
I am absolutely sure about it, and i have the *only* link that proves it.

The Phenom II X4 results were quite different to those recorded when testing with the Core i7 processors, though this was not necessarily a bad thing. When operating at lower clock speeds, the Phenom II X4 did not fair all that well, as we saw a sharp decline in performance. However when clocked at 3.0GHz and beyond, the Phenom II X4 really picked up the pace, and in many cases was able to outclass the Core i7.

That link tells me with 100% certainty that Phenom II outperforms i7 in gaming. There is no possibility of getting two more closely matched systems as the i7 and Phenom II systems are there.

What does that say to you? Come back once you have a good answer and not before then.



You wont stop arguing
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/v [...] html#sect0
You cannot change the reality
Go ahead and post that thing again, but it wont change the fact

GooD LucK
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January 30, 2010 8:57:52 AM

mfarrukh said:
You wont stop arguing
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/v [...] html#sect0
You cannot change the reality
Go ahead and post that thing again, but it wont change the fact

GooD LucK


You know what a 'test setup' is right? Look at that xbitlabs test setup, compare it to the legionhardware one.

You see any differences or are you blind as well as stupid?
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January 30, 2010 8:58:01 AM

jennyh said:
Yep, only a fool would buy an i7 over a Phenom II based on a review where the reviewer starts by making a bunch of apologies over the AMD system.

The Legionhardware uses identical hardware, the Phenom II wins most. That's all that matters, anyone who tries to find fault there and claims the xbit one has more validity is frankly, whacked in the head.

Jenny,
I take it you agree that based on the Lost Circuits review you like to champion against the i5-750, that the i7-860 destroys anything AMD has to offer.
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January 30, 2010 9:01:56 AM

Chad Boga said:
Jenny,
I take it you agree that based on the Lost Circuits review you like to champion against the i5-750, that the i7-860 destroys anything AMD has to offer.


Considering I've never read that article, I wouldn't know.

On the other hand, we're talking about gaming aren't we? Or maybe you want to concede that point because you know I am right and you are wrong. Again.
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January 30, 2010 9:11:52 AM

jennyh said:
Considering I've never read that article, I wouldn't know.


Never read it?

You linked it on this thread to champion your beloved AMD against the i5-750

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/274633-10-having-ha...

Now saying you weren't able to comprehend the article, well that would make sense considering it is you we are talking about. :lol: 

Quote:

On the other hand, we're talking about gaming aren't we? Or maybe you want to concede that point because you know I am right and you are wrong. Again.

If you even dream that you are right and I am wrong, you had better apologise.
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January 30, 2010 9:16:48 AM

Oh you mean the same article.

Give me one good reason why I would care about the i7 860. Do you really think I was looking at those results when comparing the i5 to the phenom 2? Let me guess you have an i7 860? What are you autistic, believing that everybody cares about *your* processor?

Did you look at the Athlon x2 4800 results? Dear oh dear. :lol: 
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January 30, 2010 9:21:45 AM

jennyh said:
Oh you mean the same article.

Give me one good reason why I would care about the i7 860. Do you really think I was looking at those results when comparing the i5 to the phenom 2? Let me guess you have an i7 860? What are you autistic, believing that everybody cares about *your* processor?

Did you look at the Athlon x2 4800 results? Dear oh dear. :lol: 

Jenny,
As part of your retard idiot schtick you run here at Tom's, is to say that it makes no sense to buy an i7.

Well that review you liked to champion against the i5, shows how much the i7's kick the crap out of the best AMD has to offer and the i7-860 is a great value processor, which is of course why I and most others are choosing this over the PHII 965.


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January 30, 2010 9:24:57 AM

Which part of 'Gaming Benchmarks' did your feeble mind fail to understand Chad?
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January 30, 2010 9:29:15 AM

jennyh said:
Which part of 'Gaming Benchmarks' did your feeble mind fail to understand Chad?

Jenny,
You can't even comprehend your own links that you provided to supposedly back up your case.

The Lost Circuits review(remember this is the AMDroid site of choice), shows the i7-870 beating the PhII965 at every game, with the i7-860 only being a tad slower than the i7-870, it would suggest that the i7-860 would also be the gaming processor of choice.


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January 30, 2010 9:31:33 AM

Chad Boga said:
Well that review you liked to champion against the i5, shows how much the i7's kick the crap out of the best AMD has to offer and the i7-860 is a great value processor, which is of course why I and most others are choosing this over the PHII 965.




Btw I don't see an i7-860 in any of those benchmarks?
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January 30, 2010 9:35:14 AM

Chad Boga said:
Jenny,
You can't even comprehend your own links that you provided to supposedly back up your case.

The Lost Circuits review(remember this is the AMDroid site of choice), shows the i7-870 beating the PhII965 at every game, with the i7-860 only being a tad slower than the i7-870, it would suggest that the i7-860 would also be the gaming processor of choice.


Oh lol not that old chestnut again.

So we're back to gaming at 800x600, no AA, lowest settings on our enthusiast gaming rigs? :D  :D 

Sure, at lowest possible settings, the i7 sure does own every other cpu - amazingly enough that was my original argument if you even read Raidur's OP.

Now lets see that i7 at max gaming, you know...the settings enthusiasts play at? Yes, we already know what wins then don't we. :) 
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January 30, 2010 9:49:53 AM



That is my current favourite, a 2ghz Phenom II destroying a 3ghz i7.
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January 30, 2010 10:00:15 AM











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The X4 940 is a worthy gaming competitor, even at settings that stress the CPU more than the GPU.


Let me guess, Ars Technica is paid AMD shill yes, and clearly they know nothing about hardware. :na: 
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January 30, 2010 10:51:04 AM

Glad to see multiple opinions and arguments but in the end i am happy that my CPU will do fine in the next 2 years with any mid-high video card from 1280x1024 to 1920x1080. I used to play burnout paradise on 1280x1024 and now play it at 1080p(my current PC specs are to the left of this comment). So my overclocking helped at list 10 FPS. :) 
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January 30, 2010 2:58:14 PM

Give up chad. Jennyh believes what she believes and until we have another review that isn't totally gpu bottlenecked like the legion one that also uses a resolution that nobody uses, just like 800x600... can't you see this jenny.

We'll just have to wait for another like the xbit but without the am2+ so jenny can see the light.

Just because a processor can squeeze a couple fps when bottlenecking occurs doesn't mean it is the better gamer. It is what cpu will ytake the highest gpu setup with the least amount bottleneck.

We just have to wait, again. I wish toms would clear this up for us... :) 
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January 30, 2010 3:06:09 PM

What's to clear up? Are you ignoring the Ars Technica benchmarks as well now?

By 'clear up' you mean, wait until you find a site who intel have bought and paid for, so they can fabricate benchmarks that make the i7 win.

There is no reason to wait. The Phenom II is the better gaming cpu, it always has been and it always will be. People like you who refuse point blank to look at the evidence are the real problem. What is WRONG with you?
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January 30, 2010 3:32:44 PM

I would like to point out that as a an amd fanboi, i would choose AMD over intel, even if i had 400 dollars to wipe my ass with.

Cus obviously factoring in price and still beating the competition means nothing.
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January 30, 2010 4:12:54 PM

As I see it, for gaming i7 isn't worth the few extra fps (if at all) in games. But if you professionally need the power for encoding and such go for i7. Even then, encoding isn't exactly "slow" with my 955 @ 4.0.
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January 30, 2010 4:18:33 PM

jennyh said:
What's to clear up? Are you ignoring the Ars Technica benchmarks as well now?

By 'clear up' you mean, wait until you find a site who intel have bought and paid for, so they can fabricate benchmarks that make the i7 win.

There is no reason to wait. The Phenom II is the better gaming cpu, it always has been and it always will be. People like you who refuse point blank to look at the evidence are the real problem. What is WRONG with you?

Jenny,
The PHII isn't a better gaming rig than the Lynnfield i7's(your own beloved Lost Circuits review proves this), and Lost Circuits with a ATI4890 as shows the Nehalem i7's as better overall bet than a PHII as well for gaming.

Jenny,
Why do you refuse to discuss the i7-860 or i7-870 in gaming benchmarks?
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January 30, 2010 4:28:00 PM

lets stear clear of the ad hominem shall we?

chad and jenny?
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