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CRT vs. Flat Panel(LCD)

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November 25, 2002 11:27:58 PM

Hi, I'm building a new machine. It will be used for gaming, and it will get a lot of use. I was wondering weather I should get a CRT or an LCD monitor. I know that CRT's have better refresh rates, so that makes them better for games. But how bad are LCD's in comparison? And also if the monitor is getting a lot of use in generel (surfing the internet ect.) do LCD's put more strain on your eyes and does anyone have a LCD and prefers CRT's much more. For now space really isn't a concern, but it could be in about a year or so when I go to college.

- - - -
Kill a man and you're a murderer;
Kill many and you're a conquerer;
Kill 'em all and you're a god.

More about : crt flat panel lcd

November 26, 2002 11:34:44 PM

flat panels are nice for lan parties but crts are cheaper and have better image quality, unless you are going to carry your system around alot or need to save space I reccomend getting a good crt

Dungeons and Dragons Famous Last Words:
"C'mon DM,let's see some REAL monsters!" And then you turn the corner as the Dungeon Master chuckles... DM: "It hits and... Oh hold on... I need more dice"
November 27, 2002 2:21:35 AM

yeah, mobility isn't really a big concern. I was just wondering how poorly LCD's perform in games, from first person shooters to RTS. And do your eyes start to hurt have staring at them for a long time. I am probly going to get a CRT, I've always used them and the better image quality is another plus.

- - - -
Kill a man and you're a murderer;
Kill many and you're a conquerer;
Kill 'em all and you're a god.
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November 27, 2002 7:25:55 AM

I find that my LCD has better image quality than my old CRT, everything seems sharper. In games I dont notice any difference, as long as you get a screen with 25ms response time its fine. They're much smaller, lighter, produce less heat and require less energy, they dont have the problems that CRTs have with geomery (picture perfectly fits the screen with no black lines or pincushioning) and IMHO the colours are just as good. Theyre better for doing text as the pixels on LCDs dont actually refresh, so almost static screens dont flicker anywhere near as much.
The only disadvantage is price, they're like 3x the price. however this will be coming down soon as more and more people buy them. also much better technologies will appear to make them probably better than CRTs.
One more advantage for me is that with my LCD I am able to put my speakersx right next to my monitor with no colour distortion, also they dont emmit any radiation (im not sure if this really improves your health or not, but its good :) 
November 27, 2002 3:38:23 PM

Well, I would be getting a higher-end CRT, but it looks like I'm going to have to research this more. A higher end crt would be around the price of a low end LCD. But I am going to look for some articles on this.

- - - -
Kill a man and you're a murderer;
Kill many and you're a conquerer;
Kill 'em all and you're a god.
November 29, 2002 12:55:22 PM

I have a Samsung 17 Flat Screen (Syncmaster 700NF) and it works beutiful. LCD (Liquid Crystal Dusplay) have much more potential for sharpness and overall quality, but it hasn't been exploioted yet, if space is not an issue and you're not rich, the CRT, but if space is a concern and you have plenty of money the LCD. Be careful which company you choose, Tom has done many reviews.
December 5, 2002 1:47:43 AM

Ight, here comes a 5 page essay:) 
With regards to moving objects- yes, LCD's are worse than CRT's. How much worse depends on how much u personally notice it. Eventually u get used to it. In addition, a new line of lcd's is coming out of every company that has a 16ms response time, in which there really is no ghosting (or almost not noticeable) so that would be fine for gaming. The real issue then would be with grey tones (anything not 100% black or white) but that will be remedied soon by FFD (like within the next few months LCD's w/ it will come out). Currently, gettting the best LCD in terms of response time will be good for gaming, not the best compared to CRT, but certainly good 'nough. Wait alil more, and u get something perfect for gaming.
Viewing angle- this is a measurement of at what point the screen is at 1/10 its contrast. LCD's piss me off in that sense since u move a little and the image looks off. This is better though w/ 170º viewing angle found in many lcd's now and 160º will suffice. Note though that it still won't look perfect from the side. Once again u get used to it.
Contrast- lcd's now have up to 600:1 contrast generally, which is good. However, w/ moving images the colors won't be as vibrant cause the screen can't respond fast enough to make them look their best. Colors are a lot brighter though now w/ the 16ms response time lcd's.
Brightness- Christ LCD's are bright. 250CD/M^2 or more- real bright. You'll need to turn that down to like 20% hehe. That's one area which is annoying since w/o very high brightness high contrast can';t be achieved as easily. Then again, u won't want high contrast when using word for example either. For games (especially dark ones) turn it up, but not to its fullest.
Sharpness- imo, LCD's are sharper than CRT, that is if running at native resolution. If not it doesn't look as good.
Overall in terms of eyestrain it depends on teh person, but usually LCD's cause less eyestrain b/c they don't refresh, are prefectly flat, and generally are sharper than CRT. This bs about radiation and stuff is untrue, CRT's don't emit much so there isn;t a real difference there. However, too high contrast and brightness on LCD will cause a lot of eyestrain, so make sure to fine tune those.
Overall, given the right LCD (I guess now the Hitachi CML174 would be good, or in december 27 the Planar PX171M, though we'll have to see how that one performs) you could very well use it for a gaming system. The option is up to you. Personally I intend on getting a 19-24" LCD within the next 4 months, just waiting for 16ms response or less w/ FFD and 170º viewing angle and something not too bright.

Kentucky: 15 million people, 5 last names....
December 5, 2002 2:00:12 PM

Flame

You keep telling people that FFD will be out soon, dont hold your breath based on what my sources at NEC/Mitsubisi tell me.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
MonitorsDirect.com

<A HREF="http://www.monitorsdirect.com" target="_new">MonitorsDirect.com</A>
December 6, 2002 1:41:53 AM

What about Envision's claims?

Kentucky: 15 million people, 5 last names....
December 6, 2002 2:59:34 PM

Where is the product? You said it would be here in November if my memory serves me. Have they released it yet? Please send a link if they did.

If FFD panels where widely available don’t you think more manufactures would be announcing products especially since we just had the largest computer trade show (Comdex) just last month. I did not hear any announcements did you? Maybe I missed it please fill me in.

With the new 16ms panels I’m not convinced that FFD is required. Personally I do not see any ghosting on the new 16MS panels.

Is FFD a good technology, from everything I see and read yes, is it commercially viable maybe. Odds are no. My sources tell me FFD basically doubles the cost of a non-FFD panel. From what I see and read only about 10% of technology designs ever make it to the commercial market.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
MonitorsDirect.com

<A HREF="http://www.monitorsdirect.com" target="_new">MonitorsDirect.com</A>
December 6, 2002 11:12:26 PM

I emailed them yesterday actually, awaiting a reply. As for ghosting on 16ms panel, would u please or someone else here fire up 3d s max and tell me how it looks? I doubt it'd be too good. I find it very irritating when on an MVA 25ms panel I see it looks pretty good when I use pure white object on pure black, and then it goes into grays and there's a 2 centimeter long trail. IMO, they should release it even if it doubles the price- I'm sure there are those who'd be willing to pay (me being one of them).

Kentucky: 15 million people, 5 last names....
December 7, 2002 7:40:26 PM

Gosharks, would you recomend a LCD or a CRT?

- - - -
Kill a man and you're a murderer;
Kill many and you're a conquerer;
Kill 'em all and you're a god.
December 8, 2002 8:14:43 PM

Too broad a quesion- what will u use it for?

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti
December 9, 2002 2:59:39 AM

I explained what I would use it for in the topic thread. I am just trying to get as many opinions as I can. I would like a screen that is bigger then 20 inches and I will be gaming and reading/surfing for long periods of time. I do not want to spend over 800...so im thinking CRT...right? Space/weight/size isn't really a big concern, though thinner and lighter is always nice I don't think it is worth the price.

- - - -
Kill a man and you're a murderer;
Kill many and you're a conquerer;
Kill 'em all and you're a god.
December 9, 2002 12:37:27 PM

Sorry, forgot which thread this was in. Gosharks: got a response
Quote:
Hi,

This product has not shipped yet due to panel shortage. We are working hard
with
the panel supplier to get the panels need to produce it.


"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti
December 9, 2002 4:04:56 PM

Toss5000

In general I do not recomend LCD monitors for gaming. The only one that comes close that is currently on the market is the Hitachi CML174.


Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
MonitorsDirect.com


<A HREF="http://www.monitorsdirect.com" target="_new">MonitorsDirect.com</A>
December 11, 2002 8:11:13 AM

I enjoy the information you guys have put forth, but personally I would feel better if I could read about this for myself. First, where is a good review on current and future LCD technology? Second, if your sources of industry product releases are purely internal, and not availble to the public through normal research channels, then I wouldnt waste my time with it. I'm sure you are not mistaken, but I need to read about what is going on in the industry from documented sources. Can you provide?
December 11, 2002 4:10:52 PM

Whenever possible I post my sources, problem is when you are talking about future technology the manufactures rarely if ever publish information on new product releases. They do this to keep the competition at bay.

They may publish information on new technology that they are developing. However only about 10% of new technology ever make it to the commercial market. Thin CRT’s are a good example of a promising technology that may never make it into a real product.

Here is one link to the FFD technology that Flame keeps talking about.
http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,3428,a=15016...

There may be more links a simple Google search will find them for you.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
MonitorsDirect.com

<A HREF="http://www.monitorsdirect.com" target="_new">MonitorsDirect.com</A>
December 11, 2002 8:33:30 PM

Also the <A HREF="http://www.sid.org" target="_new">SID Database</A> is good- lots of info.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti
December 11, 2002 8:36:38 PM

Ooo, Philips IPS 16ms Response time 176º 20.1" LCD panel will start producing soon. Nice...........Gosharks, got anymore info on it?

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti
December 11, 2002 9:18:04 PM

If Philips is starting production of the panel soon, the monitor manufactures will need time to build it into a monitor once they take delivery of the first few panels.

I have not heard of any announcements of availability or ETA from any monitor company.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
MonitorsDirect.com

<A HREF="http://www.monitorsdirect.com" target="_new">MonitorsDirect.com</A>
December 11, 2002 11:27:12 PM

Hmm, checked around some more, and it says 25ms response time, 300:1 contrast- odd. Is it possible SID is giving false data or just a rise or fall time?

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti
December 12, 2002 3:05:50 PM

This is why speculating on these issues is very deceiving. Until a product is announced and specifications published you never know for certain. Specs can change and often do. You can always wait for the promise of things to come, while many of us enjoy the state of the art products now.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
MonitorsDirect.com

<A HREF="http://www.monitorsdirect.com" target="_new">MonitorsDirect.com</A>
December 12, 2002 4:07:38 PM

I am enjoying a state of the art product- an FE791SB:) 

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti
!