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RAID or not....

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a b G Storage
October 21, 2011 10:05:31 AM

I am just reading the answer from WyomingKnott and I fully agree with what he wrote.
From what I have read on these forums, the consensus is not to RAID solid-state drives. 120 GB is plenty for the OS and all kinds of software.

If I personally had two SSDs, I would use the second for

1) My most frequently accessed and modified documents.
2) Scratch file space for all applications that use large scratch files.
3) Active projects for high IO work, such as video editing.

Let the drive suffer wear; I would get faster performance from my heaviest apps. I only have the one SSD, so I only do point number 1.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274704-32-corsair-for...

What is there to gain if I use 2or3 SSD's in RAID 0 or if I'll use them separately 1.Install,2.Progarms,3.All frequently used files + share all SSD's for page file?

And to loose, like TRIM or anything else?

Thanx

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a c 302 G Storage
October 21, 2011 12:59:51 PM

What you gain from striping the drives (I just promised myself not to refer to this as RAID, since it isn't) includes

1) Impressive benchmarks in serial I/O. If you actually _do_ anything that requires serial reads and writes, you will enjoy increased performance. Most apps don't do that, though. Video editing, perhaps?

2) Easier space management. You will have one large filesystem instead of three small ones. Placing files becomes a non-issue.

3) Street cred

What you lose is

1) TRIM, for now. After several long threads on the topic, I remain convinced that Garbage Collection cannot do what TRIM does - release space owned by files that have been deleted. GC will consolidate this space and move it around, but not free it up. I also believe that this will be addressed in controller hardware / firmware soon.

2) A certain amount of system reliability, as you increase the chance of a system drive failure. Backups can make this a non-issue.


If you do stripe them, I would be delighted to hear your impressions of how the system works compared to a single SSD. I will ignore serial read/write benchmarks, pay attention to 4K random read/write benchies, and be really interested in your subjective opinion as to whether or not it made a difference.

BTW, I think that splitting the pagefile might not get you anything - pagefile access is dominated by random IO, which striping seems not to improve. Remember that some people swear by having a lot of memory and no pagefile. I, personally, have the page file on my SSD.
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a b G Storage
October 21, 2011 1:27:27 PM



Splitting the pagefile - just to split the load

I will ignore serial read/write benchmarks - don't care about them

pay attention to 4K random read/write benchies - do watch those

...and be really interested in your subjective opinion as to whether or not it made a difference - me too

I, personally, have the page file on my SSD - me too

pagefile access is dominated by random IO, which striping seems not to improve - right

If you do stripe them, I would be delighted to hear your impressions of how the system works compared to a single SSD - after reading your post there, u got me thinking.

Impressive benchmarks in serial I/O. If you actually _do_ anything that requires serial reads and writes, you will enjoy increased performance. Most apps don't do that, though. Video editing, perhaps? - For that I use V-raptor.

1) TRIM, for now. After several long threads on the topic, I remain convinced that Garbage Collection cannot do what TRIM does - release space owned by files that have been deleted. GC will consolidate this space and move it around, but not free it up. I also believe that this will be addressed in controller hardware / firmware soon. - Agree

2) Easier space management. You will have one large filesystem instead of three small ones. Placing files becomes a non-issue. - I like things apart
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a b G Storage
October 21, 2011 1:28:48 PM

Great knowledge! Few things are new to me.

Thanx
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a c 353 G Storage
October 21, 2011 1:34:08 PM

In total aggrement with WyomingKnott.
Not only do you:
(1) lose Trim and as WyomingKnott stated CG is just not there yet. If you look at the Curical M4 reviews (My recommend choice for SSDs currently) you will find that listed as one of it. weakness.
(2) For an OS + programs you will find that over half of the files are 16K and under and only about 10% over 100K - Reason Sequencial performance is meanless.
But added.
.. Much easier to upgrade the FW on a SSD and to do a secure erease if need when in a non raid configuration.

Does Raid0 make any since with SSDs, Yes if it is for a "Data disk" and the Following applies.
... Often work with larve Video files. A single DVD file is normally 1 G, a Blu-ray video file can be upto 40 gigs for a single file.
... Work with large complex spreedsheets. Faster load time and these spreedsheets are normally saved ever few minutes (normally in the background).
... Working with larg CAD/CAM drawing files.
... Spend 10-20% of your time editting large jpeg high resolution Photos.

PS From the mid 90s up untill SSDs every one ove my systems used a HDD in raid0 for OS + Programs +DATA. Also note this predated SATA and the HDD were all old slow PATA (IDE). So Note against Raid0 - it has it's place, just not as a OS + Program disk using a SSD.

Added: On page file (virtual memory) I prefer to keep on SSD. BUT I also take controll of it and set the Min/max to the same value. For 4 Gigs RAM I set it to 1024 mb and for > 4 Gigs ram I set min/max both to 512mb (Windows will set the max to from 1.5 to 2 x the amount of RAM and Will dynamically vary it's size - Yuk. If these value are not enough, windows will issue a "out of memory error" - No biggy, just up the min/max. I've jet to get an out of memory error. I do not recommend setting to 0 as few programs will refuse to load if they find ) virual memory, even if they DO NOT need it.
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October 21, 2011 1:54:29 PM

i wouldnt mind a 2nd ssd for downloading to, for quick unrarring. personally
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a b G Storage
October 21, 2011 1:57:08 PM

neonneophyte said:
i wouldnt mind a 2nd ssd for downloading to, for quick unrarring. personally

I use RAMdisc for that : ) Crazy fast.
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a c 353 G Storage
October 21, 2011 2:07:01 PM

^ Yea, I have a 8 gig Ramdisk that I can enable/disable (16 Gigs of Ram).
Benchmarks indicate about 10 x faster than my best SSD - And that is for 4 K random as well as Sequencial.
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a b G Storage
October 21, 2011 2:08:29 PM

RetiredChief said:
^ Yea, I have a 8 gig Ramdisk that I can enable/disable (16 Gigs of Ram).
Benchmarks indicate about 10 x faster than my best SSD - And that is for 4 K random as well as Sequencial.

Can u share what program do u use for that?
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a c 353 G Storage
October 21, 2011 2:11:59 PM

http://memory.dataram.com/products-and-services/softwar...
Free for upto 4 Gig size. Above 4 gigs, if I remember correct, it was like $15.
I tried the free version, liked so I paid the 15 bucks.

Added: A review (Did not read)
http://download.techworld.com/3248759/dataram-ramdisk-3...

Only down side - Slows Windows load time as the Ramdisk has to be read into memory (could store on SSD, but that will increase read (no problem) and writes to the SSD). Also slows down shutdown time as the 4/8 gigs in the ramdisk have to be written to the HD (Be it a SSD or a HDD).
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a b G Storage
October 21, 2011 2:19:19 PM

RetiredChief said:
In total aggrement with WyomingKnott.
Not only do you:
(1) lose Trim and as WyomingKnott stated CG is just not there yet. If you look at the Curical M4 reviews (My recommend choice for SSDs currently) you will find that listed as one of it. weakness.
(2) For an OS + programs you will find that over half of the files are 16K and under and only about 10% over 100K - Reason Sequencial performance is meanless.
But added.
.. Much easier to upgrade the FW on a SSD and to do a secure erease if need when in a non raid configuration.

Does Raid0 make any since with SSDs, Yes if it is for a "Data disk" and the Following applies.
... Often work with larve Video files. A single DVD file is normally 1 G, a Blu-ray video file can be upto 40 gigs for a single file.
... Work with large complex spreedsheets. Faster load time and these spreedsheets are normally saved ever few minutes (normally in the background).
... Working with larg CAD/CAM drawing files.
... Spend 10-20% of your time editting large jpeg high resolution Photos.

PS From the mid 90s up untill SSDs every one ove my systems used a HDD in raid0 for OS + Programs +DATA. Also note this predated SATA and the HDD were all old slow PATA (IDE). So Note against Raid0 - it has it's place, just not as a OS + Program disk using a SSD.

Added: On page file (virtual memory) I prefer to keep on SSD. BUT I also take controll of it and set the Min/max to the same value. For 4 Gigs RAM I set it to 1024 mb and for > 4 Gigs ram I set min/max both to 512mb (Windows will set the max to from 1.5 to 2 x the amount of RAM and Will dynamically vary it's size - Yuk. If these value are not enough, windows will issue a "out of memory error" - No biggy, just up the min/max. I've jet to get an out of memory error. I do not recommend setting to 0 as few programs will refuse to load if they find ) virual memory, even if they DO NOT need it.

Great explaining. With RAM I have sometimes even 500 tabs in 3-5 instances opened and it comes to the windows attention, and warning is issued. That chrome looks huge in Sysinternals Process Explorer. Chrome eats RAM like some infection : )

I had RAID 0 once two raptors running 24/7 one died after almost 4 years.
/5 y warranty good/

Thanx
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a c 302 G Storage
October 21, 2011 3:33:08 PM

RetiredChief said:
^ Yea, I have a 8 gig Ramdisk that I can enable/disable (16 Gigs of Ram).
Benchmarks indicate about 10 x faster than my best SSD - And that is for 4 K random as well as Sequencial.

Cool! Now I have an excuse to buy more RAM. Gotta try that.
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a c 353 G Storage
October 21, 2011 3:48:48 PM

Yes, Rams pretty cheap right know.
Was the main reason I went to 16 gigs, since above 8 gigs provides very little benifit, except for a very few programs. BUT for thoes few cases you can simply turn the Ramdisk off then back on when not needed. Just reload the ramdisk and everything is there.
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a c 302 G Storage
October 21, 2011 3:50:38 PM

One claim that I can't believe: speeds up downloads. I think that my slowest HDD is faster than my Internet connection.

What you described is what I wanted to build ages ago: instead of flash memory, just a big box of RAM that can persist by writing itself to a couple of flash sticks at shutdown.
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a c 353 G Storage
October 21, 2011 4:07:10 PM

Correct again as download speeds are way lower than time to store on Disk, one of the reasons ALL my downloads go to a HDD since a SSD does not really speed up this process.

My Son back in the early->mid 90s designed a Solid state "flight qualified" HDD using memory modules for Nasa. Talk about expensive vs size - Ouch.
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a b G Storage
October 22, 2011 1:32:41 AM

I really wish that I can split the bean!
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a b G Storage
October 22, 2011 1:32:58 AM

Best answer selected by nikorr.
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a b G Storage
October 22, 2011 1:33:32 AM

Thax a lot, guys!
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!