System Builder Marathon: TH's $2000 Hand-Picked Build
Tags:
- System Builder
- Tom's Hardware
- Build
- Product
Last response: in Reviews comments
Crashman
September 30, 2010 6:00:04 AM
Each quarter, our System Builder Marathons include parts picked by three Tom's Hardware editors aided by comments from our readers. This quarter, we're adding an Editor's Choice PC with parts hand-picked by Thomas to go up against the top SBM config.
System Builder Marathon: TH's $2000 Hand-Picked Build : Read more
System Builder Marathon: TH's $2000 Hand-Picked Build : Read more
More about : system builder marathon 2000 hand picked build
Randomacts
September 30, 2010 6:20:50 AM
tacoslave
September 30, 2010 6:28:05 AM
Related resources
- Memory trouble with X58A-UD3R - 09/10 TH's $2000 Hand-Picked Build - Forum
- Looking at System Builder Marathon (or any other PC) for New Build - Forum
- Are System Builder Marathon Rigs Suitable for a First Build? - Forum
- With Tom's System Builder Marathon in mind: Build a Infinite Budget PC - Forum
- Help! System Builder Marathon, Q2 2014: Our Budget Gaming PC - Forum
duk3
September 30, 2010 6:31:19 AM
Crashman
September 30, 2010 7:10:30 AM
cojj
September 30, 2010 7:14:57 AM
Crashman
September 30, 2010 7:40:22 AM
IzzyCraft
September 30, 2010 8:00:39 AM
Crashman
September 30, 2010 8:33:15 AM
IzzyCraftI guess these were more performance driven choices. I still will miss the case, i'd gladly trade a 920/930 for the SilverStone Raven
Quality-wise, the Three Hundred is probably the best case you can get for under $80, but there should have been one more fan in the system given the internally-vented graphics cards the system ended up with. On the other hand, a lot of builders would be more than happy to "settle for" 4GHz at 1.30V, and the CPU will certainly live longer at the lower voltage. Score
2
brisingamen
September 30, 2010 9:02:36 AM
pinkfloydminnesota
September 30, 2010 9:20:58 AM
eyefinity
September 30, 2010 9:21:48 AM
Crashman
September 30, 2010 9:31:14 AM
pinkfloydminnesotaA 970 and a drop to 460s? Are you kidding me? How much is newegg dropping in ad revenue for you to help them dump this overpriced stock?
The 970 was a sub for the 1055T: Please outline a 970 build with GTX 480's for $2000 if you'd like to add credibility to your incredulity. Thanks!eyefinityWho wouldn't go with Eyefinity or Nvidia surround with $2k?
Actually I proposed that for an upcoming SBM, but it couldn't be included this time since the former systems had already been decommissioned for shipment to the contest winners. So, who's up for an ATI EyeFinity/Nvidia Surround SBM?Score
12
pinkfloydminnesotaA 970 and a drop to 460s? Are you kidding me? How much is newegg dropping in ad revenue for you to help them dump this overpriced stock?
The story has the numbers to *prove* the improvements made to this build. This is a solid configuration that we have no problem recommending.
Aside from that, we enjoy the luxury on the editorial side of operating completely separately from sales. In this case, our follow-up system was a good move editorially, and we get to give it away, to boot.
Best,
Chris Angelini
Score
11
stm1185
September 30, 2010 9:36:35 AM
Anonymous
September 30, 2010 9:41:38 AM
Crashman
September 30, 2010 9:50:27 AM
rrrHow about bouild with 930 instead and some nice SSD?Also I'd rather a case with proper PSU bottom mount, like Cooler Master does.
1.) The SSD is mentioned in the article. The problem is, it increases only synthetic test scores and the value analysis only uses "real world" benchmarks so it's basically a non-starter.
2.) The i7-930 is nice, and would normally have been used if this build hadn't been designed as a direct alternative to the former six-core build. It will probably be used next time!
3.) The Antec Three Hundred is "proper bottom mount", please check the photos!
Score
1
feeddagoat
September 30, 2010 10:41:46 AM
Crashman
September 30, 2010 12:19:57 PM
TheCapuletYou guys really need to get comfortable with the coolermaster cases. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811119233http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811119215http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811119228All three of these are far better values than the Antec you keep building in.
I accidentally clicked the thumbs up icon on your message, and welcome the slamming of this comment as punishment. The case in this article was chosen for its excellent cooling-to-noise ratio, where the cases you picked are noisier and don't cool as well. It's all in the case reviews at this very site, really. None of the cases you picked even support dual front fans, and the original plan was to pair the dual front fans with graphics cards that vented externally.
Score
3
rembo666
September 30, 2010 12:50:11 PM
I agree with the previous comments. Why go for a 6-core CPU? Unless you have some very specific requirements, you'd be much better off going with a quad-core and spending the money on an SSD. I guess the whole point of this thing is to be the best "benchmark machine", not necessarily the best bang-for-the-buck in the real world usage.
Score
0
Don't worry, Crash, I thumbed his down; couldn't do it twice though (but I did agree with his subsequent comment).
This build provided excellent comparative data. Very well done. I might have made some changes if I were building, but for generating useful data, I can't think of any better or more useful choices.
This build provided excellent comparative data. Very well done. I might have made some changes if I were building, but for generating useful data, I can't think of any better or more useful choices.
Score
0
coldmast
September 30, 2010 2:05:48 PM
It's good to see that the processor still matters, and that building a balanced computer can yield higher results than what many (including myself) would consider better: throwing half of the budget towards graphics. Of course this build is going to be scrutinized for using certain components over others, but the end result is a massive improvement in 1920x1080 gaming. For the Orignal September $2000 build everyone questioned the use of a x4 1055T, why would you use a ~$200 processor in such a relatively high-end build? This revised build is balanced and it works, though people would argue about the processor and graphics pairing until next the system marathon.
Score
1
pinkfloydminnesota
September 30, 2010 2:21:37 PM
Then, why not simply state a six core build doesn't work -- and you won't present one for that reason -- because too much is placed on the processor for the difference you get vs. say a $600 cheaper 930. Elsewhere on this site you say exactly that.
And ssd's are thought to provide performance improvements -- albeit immeasurable -- by reducing microdelays that occur during game while hdd's read data. I think I read that ON YOUR SITE.
And ssd's are thought to provide performance improvements -- albeit immeasurable -- by reducing microdelays that occur during game while hdd's read data. I think I read that ON YOUR SITE.
Score
-1
coldmast
September 30, 2010 2:25:53 PM
tacoslaveshould have just gone with a i7 920 and stuck a 5970 which would have been cheaper
Well then they would need a different case, based on a quick search:
COOLER MASTER Elite 430 RC-430-KWN1 Black
http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/745223-pureoverclock-cooler-master-elite-430-a.html check the fourth post down.
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119227 and it is cheap
Score
-1
thechief73
September 30, 2010 2:38:11 PM
Thanks Tom's for ANOTHER!!! great give-a-way. But am I missing something here? This was posted at (2:00 AM - September 30, 2010) and you cannot enter the contest until (Contest starts on September 30, 2010 11:00 pm, Pacific Daylight Time) Did I get hit on the head too hard at one time or is this odd?
Score
0
scook9
September 30, 2010 2:43:58 PM
Crashman
September 30, 2010 3:17:24 PM
scook9
September 30, 2010 3:41:03 PM
theoutbound
September 30, 2010 3:48:01 PM
IWC Member 23495867
September 30, 2010 3:55:15 PM
jaghpanther
September 30, 2010 4:08:14 PM
Anonymous
September 30, 2010 4:08:19 PM
i absolutely agree that boot times and load times along with some form of data transfer benchmarks need to happen! my i5 build was an absolute dog with a 1.5TB 3.5" drive, but two SSD's in Raid 0 make the computer experience so much more fulfilling. Nothing like having a sweet processor and good RAM only to have it wait for data from a mechanical hard drive! I also think your $1000 pc is brilliant-prove it by showing how well it scales in gaming based on what graphics chips you use. I doubt you will bottleneck the GTX 480 SLI as long as you have a proper cooler for oc'ing that i5-750, and it should destroy the GTX 470! and perhaps you guys should hit some faster ram as well, like some real enthusiast stuff--->PC16000
Score
-1
JackNaylorPE
September 30, 2010 4:18:27 PM
Not a criticism, but just a sugegstion.
These artificial or better said "rounded off" budget limits will invariably result in compromises. Putting SLI GFX cards w/ internal heat exhaust in a small case like the Illusion instead of using something like the Antec 1200 / CP-850 combo because "it would exceed the dollar limit by $20" seems silly....especially when the conclusions essentially say that "Gee, if we could cool this better, we might have hit our OC goals."
Understood, people have budgets and ya can't come outta the gate doing a "Build a $2,000 PC" article and immediately toss the upset limit out the window. Seems to me however that a paragraph at the end addressing the observed shortcomings of a "mismatched" build seems to be warranted.
I'm thinking that an "options" paragraph .... something along the lines of what's below would really out the icing on the cake:
"Given the heat issues we observed, we examined how much more than our budget we'd have to spend to address the shortcomings of this build. Swapping out the Case / PSU combo for X/Y costs us an extra $50 but the extra cooling enabled us to raise our OC to 4.x GHz.
Dropping from the factory OC'd version of the cards to the stock version would have given us the necessary cash to meet our budget with the large case / PSU. We'd gain the same speeds after OC'ing the cards ourselves but we'd lose the factory guarantee on the OC. [Note that at today's newegg prices w/ rebates, no need]
To address the RAM limitations, we tried the following substitutions:
$20 extra for [insert model here] got us this
$30 extra for [insert model here] got us that
$40 extra for [insert model here] got us where we wanted to go w/ no stability issues."
Again, I enjoyed the article, but every buyer sets himself / herself a budget in the "please review my build" posts on the forum and includes the statement "I'd be willing to go a little bit higher if it's warranted". A "Budget Breaking Options to Consider" paragraph at the end would address that area of curiosity.
These artificial or better said "rounded off" budget limits will invariably result in compromises. Putting SLI GFX cards w/ internal heat exhaust in a small case like the Illusion instead of using something like the Antec 1200 / CP-850 combo because "it would exceed the dollar limit by $20" seems silly....especially when the conclusions essentially say that "Gee, if we could cool this better, we might have hit our OC goals."
Understood, people have budgets and ya can't come outta the gate doing a "Build a $2,000 PC" article and immediately toss the upset limit out the window. Seems to me however that a paragraph at the end addressing the observed shortcomings of a "mismatched" build seems to be warranted.
I'm thinking that an "options" paragraph .... something along the lines of what's below would really out the icing on the cake:
"Given the heat issues we observed, we examined how much more than our budget we'd have to spend to address the shortcomings of this build. Swapping out the Case / PSU combo for X/Y costs us an extra $50 but the extra cooling enabled us to raise our OC to 4.x GHz.
Dropping from the factory OC'd version of the cards to the stock version would have given us the necessary cash to meet our budget with the large case / PSU. We'd gain the same speeds after OC'ing the cards ourselves but we'd lose the factory guarantee on the OC. [Note that at today's newegg prices w/ rebates, no need]
To address the RAM limitations, we tried the following substitutions:
$20 extra for [insert model here] got us this
$30 extra for [insert model here] got us that
$40 extra for [insert model here] got us where we wanted to go w/ no stability issues."
Again, I enjoyed the article, but every buyer sets himself / herself a budget in the "please review my build" posts on the forum and includes the statement "I'd be willing to go a little bit higher if it's warranted". A "Budget Breaking Options to Consider" paragraph at the end would address that area of curiosity.
Score
7
SpeedyVV
September 30, 2010 4:20:14 PM
triculious
September 30, 2010 4:23:07 PM
Interesting articles, however I've always thought a 2k build would only be valuable to anyone playing on a resolution of 2560x1600 and higher, overkill for lower resolutions
the same can be told on a 1k build where I would use a 1680x1050 or 1920x1080 resolution, not lower nor higher
here's waiting for the hand-picked 1k build =P
the same can be told on a 1k build where I would use a 1680x1050 or 1920x1080 resolution, not lower nor higher
here's waiting for the hand-picked 1k build =P
Score
0
terr281
September 30, 2010 4:26:24 PM
+1 for the many comments regarding the i7-930 + 2 "~$200" video card "obvious choice." However, as the authors have said, this was a 6 physical core showdown.
I would like to see the $1k and $2k pcs in the future have a SLI/Crossfire Vision/Eyefinity test, since many people will use that kind of setup for a pc in the $2k range. (And, some people do so in the $1k range. My personal gaming pc, a Core 2 Duo 6750 with a 5770, runs Eyefinity in some games.)
And, with the above said, the cost of monitors isn't a real issue for someone at this level if they are budget conscious. I am a big fan of the 16:10 1680x1050 resolution, and, as such, I use 22" monitors from the now defunct aspect ratio in my setup. (With an extra one already purchased for when I go with 3 monitors instead of 2.)
For Eyefinity, at least, all you need is 3 24" 1920x1080 monitors at ~$220 (Example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... ) & a DVI to DVI adapter. The catch is the adapter. However, as of June of this year, AMD was "working actively with several manufacturers" to get them to produce a ~$30 single link DVI adapter instead of forcing people to buy a DVI-D adapter at $100. (Nvidia, of course, fixes this issue by requiring 2 cards and using the output from the 2nd card.)
Either way, I definitely would like to see such an inclusion including in the SBM articles. (And, from there, let people decide if they wish to pay the price premium for multiple monitors, even if the budget conscious price premium is lower than what many people say it is.)
I would like to see the $1k and $2k pcs in the future have a SLI/Crossfire Vision/Eyefinity test, since many people will use that kind of setup for a pc in the $2k range. (And, some people do so in the $1k range. My personal gaming pc, a Core 2 Duo 6750 with a 5770, runs Eyefinity in some games.)
And, with the above said, the cost of monitors isn't a real issue for someone at this level if they are budget conscious. I am a big fan of the 16:10 1680x1050 resolution, and, as such, I use 22" monitors from the now defunct aspect ratio in my setup. (With an extra one already purchased for when I go with 3 monitors instead of 2.)
For Eyefinity, at least, all you need is 3 24" 1920x1080 monitors at ~$220 (Example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... ) & a DVI to DVI adapter. The catch is the adapter. However, as of June of this year, AMD was "working actively with several manufacturers" to get them to produce a ~$30 single link DVI adapter instead of forcing people to buy a DVI-D adapter at $100. (Nvidia, of course, fixes this issue by requiring 2 cards and using the output from the 2nd card.)
Either way, I definitely would like to see such an inclusion including in the SBM articles. (And, from there, let people decide if they wish to pay the price premium for multiple monitors, even if the budget conscious price premium is lower than what many people say it is.)
Score
2
cadder
September 30, 2010 4:38:03 PM
I've been reading Tom's articles for several years, trying to pick up knowledge about how the GPU, CPU, # of cores all affect performance. Toms has even done comparisons to show how the # of cores affect performance. Toms has also done articles on how to achieve a balance between cpu power and gpu power. It seems that this machine is unbalanced- too much cpu power at the expense of gpu power. I agree with the readers that said it would would be better with an i7-930 and putting more into the GPU. I'm not sure that a 6 core cpu makes sense for anyone that isn't doing video processing.
Score
0
cadder
September 30, 2010 4:40:20 PM
Sorry- I wanted to make a comment on the Antec 300 case. I've used about 6 of them myself and I really like them. All of the machines I've built have been overclocked and used as workstations. When I order the case I automatically order 2 more fans for the front- all of these machines are running 4 case fans. Noise is not an issue in our office, I don't even mind it in my home computer. Good fans are about $6 each, you guys should consider doing this for any machine that you are going to heavily overclock.
Score
1
deletemach_kernel
September 30, 2010 4:42:27 PM
deletemach_kernel
September 30, 2010 4:44:18 PM
gm0n3y
September 30, 2010 4:44:56 PM
Crashman
September 30, 2010 4:47:40 PM
PaulEWog2002I doubt you will bottleneck the GTX 480 SLI as long as you have a proper cooler for oc'ing that i5-750, and it should destroy the GTX 470!
That's not what the PCI-Express and SLI Scaling article showed. It showed an overclocked Core i7-980X as a HUGE bottleneck to a pair of GTX 480's at 1080p and below, which are the settings normally used for the SBM. PaulEWog2002and perhaps you guys should hit some faster ram as well, like some real enthusiast stuff--->PC16000
Tom's Hardware has a vast array of articles that show data rates in excess of 1333 make little difference in real-world performance, and it gets even worse when you go over 1600 (PC-12800)Since there is a value component in the series, its sounds like faster memory would be a bigger waste of money than the six core processor, which actually DID benefit a few real-world benchmarks.JackNaylorPEPutting SLI GFX cards w/ internal heat exhaust in a small case like the Illusion instead of using something like the Antec 1200 / CP-850 combo because "it would exceed the dollar limit by $20" seems silly....especially when the conclusions essentially say that "Gee, if we could cool this better, we might have hit our OC goals."
Actually, the article links to the previous high-end build to use the same case with two GTX 470's and no poor case temps. It didn't need a bigger case. In fact, a bigger case would have helped less than a switch to externally-venting cards, as proven in the June SBM.cadderI've been reading Tom's articles for several years, trying to pick up knowledge about how the GPU, CPU, # of cores all affect performance. Toms has even done comparisons to show how the # of cores affect performance. Toms has also done articles on how to achieve a balance between cpu power and gpu power. It seems that this machine is unbalanced- too much cpu power at the expense of gpu power. I agree with the readers that said it would would be better with an i7-930 and putting more into the GPU. I'm not sure that a 6 core cpu makes sense for anyone that isn't doing video processing.
Bingo, this is a video editing machine that can play games, so it's darned-near perfectly balanced
Score
4
rick4937
September 30, 2010 4:51:31 PM
The article states they were looking for "a super-stable board with two PCIe x16 slots that were at least three spaces apart. Unfortunately, we couldn’t find any within our budget. Giving up our three-slot spacing desires, Gigabyte’s X58A-UD3R was the default choice."
So what's an example of a board where the PCIe x16 slots are at least three spaces apart?
So what's an example of a board where the PCIe x16 slots are at least three spaces apart?
Score
0
tom thumb
September 30, 2010 5:05:46 PM
IzzyCraft
September 30, 2010 5:11:06 PM
CrashmanQuality-wise, the Three Hundred is probably the best case you can get for under $80, but there should have been one more fan in the system given the internally-vented graphics cards the system ended up with. On the other hand, a lot of builders would be more than happy to "settle for" 4GHz at 1.30V, and the CPU will certainly live longer at the lower voltage.
Mostly the reason i like the raven is looks and rather good cooling lol.
A antec 300 with all 4 fans installed is alot of venting which i'm sure only a full tower could compete with.
Score
0
deletemach_kernel
September 30, 2010 5:24:19 PM
tom thumbQuestion: Why would you go for a 970 as opposed to a 980?Also, the 930 is better value, you'd be able to un-bottleneck those 480s with it.Finally, why still no SSD? Does no one care about load times and system responsiveness? ...or are fps and $$ the only variables that matter?
dude read the article properly... they had to stick to the budget of $2000. doing so they sacrificed the SSD.... even more..they sacrificed a higher end x58 Motherboard.... they chose to stick with the UD3R instead of the UD9 or the big bang.... coz they had a budget to stick to....
in the real world scenario.... if i could get this performance i wouldnt mind a 1Tb hdd for a few more months or maybe a year till the SSD's start getting cheaper... then i would maybe buy them..... a more powerful processor over a SSd anyday!!
Score
0
deletemach_kernel
September 30, 2010 5:25:56 PM
deletemach_kernel
September 30, 2010 5:27:40 PM
Crashman
September 30, 2010 5:43:01 PM
tom thumbQuestion: Why would you go for a 970 as opposed to a 980?Also, the 930 is better value, you'd be able to un-bottleneck those 480s with it.Finally, why still no SSD? Does no one care about load times and system responsiveness? ...or are fps and $$ the only variables that matter?
For the third time no, you can't unbottleneck a pair of 480's using any available CPU at resolutions of 1920x1080 and below, this was already shown in the PCIe and SLI Scaling article from around July, mentioned in the article, linked in the article, and responded to several times in this thread.
Score
4
Related resources
- Solvedwhy is the system builder marathon 2013 based on mini itx plat form? Forum
- SolvedNo Newegg SuperCombo for the current System Builder's Marathon? Forum
- System Builder Marathon, Q1 2014? Forum
- System Builder marathon $500 Forum
- System Builder Marathon, August 2012: $1000 Enthusiast PC Forum
- New $1000 gaming system or System Builder Marathon, Q4 2012: $1,000 Forum
- Real Winners of the System Builder Marathon marc. 2012? Forum
- System Builder Marathon Giveaway Winner announcments? Forum
- "System Builder Marathon" $1200 Rig? Forum
- How to enter the System Builder Marathon competition ? Forum
- Next System builder Marathon Forum
- System Builder Marathon Contest Forum
- System builder marathon notebook edition Forum
- Card Alternative from the System Builder Marathon Article Forum
- System Builder Marathon, May '09: $1,300 Enthusiast PC Forum
- More resources
!