I5 2500K Voltage issue

[Guest]

My i5 with Cooler Master 212+ on it is at 1.240 volts at STOCK speeds, everything in the BIOS is set to AUTO. Is this NORMAL?

ALSO, whenever I overclock to 4.5 GHz and i set VCORE to 1.250 or even 1.280 i get BSOD. I set it to AUTO and it boots perfectly but after boot when i check the VCORE it says 1.400.



CPU: i5 2500K
Mobo: Asus P67 Sabertooth
RAM: 2x4 GB G.Skill Sniper 1600 MHz 1.5 V
GPUs: Asus GTX 560 1 GB
Evga GeForce 9600 512 MB
PSU: Antec EarthWatts 750w

 

[curtc]

When you set your BIOS to auto settings it will tend to send more voltage than it really needs. 1.4 Vcore is extremely high for an overclock of 4.5ghz (as a reference, I was able to oc my i5 to 4.6ghz using approximately 1.320 Vcore. I would suggest working up in 1-2 increments from 1.280 until you don't get a BSOD. Afterwards, stress test your new overclock with a cpu stress testing program (I use prime95) overnight to test your cpu's stability under load.

Btw, I have a similar setup, I am also rocking a Coolermaster 212 in push/pull...so you should get decent temps even at 4.6-4.7.

Good luck!

Edit: Forgot to ask, what are your other settings in BIOS? Are they all default as well?

 

[Guest]

Hey thanks for responding, I dont have push pull but i have 2 fans on TOP of my case pushing air OUT of my case, and i have one at the REAR also pushing air out and the 212+ is right under those so when my temps go up i increase those fans and they alone bring it down 5 degrees. I will take screenshots and show you all my settings.

 

[Guest]

I am now going to attempt to overclock the way you said it and leave everything else set to AUTO. Oh and for Stress Testing dont use Prime95 for 8 hours, its a stupid practice IMO. Use Intel Burn Test run 10 test with VERY HIGH settings, it will max out ur temps even higher than Prime and it only takes about 5 minutes, then it will tell you if your CPU is stable or not. Also, I wanted to know whether you also have a Sabertooth because I use Thermal Radar in AI SUITE II to check my temps and it is 10 C degrees LOWER than any other monitoring software like RealTemp and Aida64. Ill be back.

 

[Guest]

No Luck I set the Multiplier to 45 and slowly increased voltage by increments of 0.005 and still BSOD all the way until i gave up. I got up to 1.325 and BSOD i just set the Vcore to AUTO again and booted at 4.5 GHz and its at 1.400 again. Please respond.

 

[DJDeCiBeL]

My 2500K is stable @ 4.5 at 1.336V (1.280V at 100% load), so you can see that every chip is different. Still, you should still be able to get to 4.5 at 1.350V or lower.

 

[curtc]

I need to run to work right now, so I don't have much time to give a detailed answer. When I'm back I'll give you some more details, but first you should disable CPU speed spectrum as that causes high instability when ocing. Set load line calibration to ultra-high. CPU current capability to 130%, phase control to extreme, VRM frequency to manual and set it at 350.

About the stress test program, to each their own I guess. I was able to get rock solid using p95 as my stress testing program. Also, DO NOT TRUST AI SUITE II's numbers...their sensors for temps are way off. I would get consistently 10 degrees cooler in AI suite than is reported in HWtemp.

 

[Guest]

Best answer selected by Edo818.

 

[DJDeCiBeL]

but first you should disable CPU speed spectrum as that causes high instability when ocing.

Asus actually recommends leaving Spread Spectrum enabled because of the way they have everything set up. The way I understand it, it's actually more stable with it enabled (on Asus boards only). In any case, I leave it enabled and have had no issues, even when trying for higher OC's than what I have currently. Voltage was my concern over going higher, not instability because of Spread Spectrum.

 

[Guest]

Okay, sure when you get home give me some more details but DJDeCiBeL is right, with Spread Spectrum it actually increases stability of the system. Also, my AI SUITE also reports bad numbers, it is TOO constantly 10 degrees cooler than that of RealTemp, HWMonitor, etc. But then again, when I get into BIOS the temps are the same as AI SUITE and NOT the same as RealTemp, etc. I am going to trust the BIOS, afterall, the BIOS is what is going to SHUT OFF my CPU when it gets too hot, not RealTemp.

 

[curtc]

To be honest I can't really argue with you guys there, I have only a basic idea of how CPU spread spectrum works but I'm not 100% sure how it affects stability. From past research I've done, the general consensus was to leave CPU spread spectrum disabled. But in actuality, DJDeCiBel is right, the main problem here is that your cpu is not receiving enough voltage to be stable (this was what I wanted to tell you, but I forgot because I was running late). After changing some of the options I've listed above, I would keep increasing your vcore in small increments until you stop receiving a BSOD. What is your BSOD error number? And yes, every cpu is different in terms of overclocking ability. It just might be that your processor is more power hungry and require more vcore to run oc's than others unfortunately!

Also, another good practice is to try using your auto-tuning function from AI suite just to give you a good idea of what your computer thinks it can handle. This will give you sort of a benchmark to work your oc towards.

I can give you my exact settings for my BIOS if you want, just for a reference. I'm using offset mode to oc to 4.6ghz so it'll be slightly different

Also want to point out that when I ran auto-tune to get a sense of how my cpu can oc, my BIOS automatically set cpu spread spectrum to disable and my intel virtualization was also disabled

Edit: Be careful using the above settings I recommended with AUTO voltage though...this my cause your system to spike your vcore and temps to dangerous highs

 

[Guest]

Hey again, ya so i found out you were right, i left EVERY other setting the same with VCore at 1.290 at 4.4 GHz and set CPU Spread Spectrum on DISABLED and it worked perfectly. And the Blue Screens I keep getting are RIGHT after Windows 7 loading screen and it states something of Hardware error? Uncontrollable hardware error i think. At first i thought i blew my CPU or RAM but then after i put the VCore up or change to AUTO it works perfectly. Oh and one more thing, I would LOVE to go to 4.5 even 4.7 GHz but my CPU wants 1.320 Volts ALREADY at 4.5 GHz. From 4.4 to 4.5 it wants an increase from 1.290 to 1.320!!!! So what would you recommend? SHOULD i OC that high because in ASUS BIOS when i increase to 1.300 VOlts it gets YELLOW as in its pretty high?

 

[DJDeCiBeL]

Wow, that's good knowledge to have about the Spread Spectrum. I've NEVER had an issue with it at all, but it gives me the knowledge that other people might.

As far as Vcore goes, 1.320V is nothing to worry about. Like I said further up, it takes 1.336V idle (if I have the High Performance power profile set), dropping 1.280V at 100% load in Prime (with an offset of +.025, since the P8Z68-V LE doesn't allow you to input a Vcore manually) for my 2500K to be rock solid stable at 4.5. As long as you stay below 1.45V (on the safe side, since Intel's stated max is 1.52V) you'll be fine.

 

[curtc]

It's really up to you! 1.320V is really no concern at all, personally I like to keep my voltage from going above 1.40V even though Intel's max is 1.52V. If I have time I can fish out a link to a well written article about increasing your i5 2500k SB past 1.41V. The research article stated that exceeding a vcore of 1.41V on our i5's greatly reduces its life expectancy (they even go as far as saying reducing life expectancy to a matter of weeks!!!). The article was well substantiated, and it made me nervous enough to set a personal limit of 1.40V. Thus, I would recommend that you try to push your cpu to 4.5 or even 4.6 if you're feeling cocky, but be careful about your vcore (set a personal limit). In retrospect, that extra 100mhz well have near negligible gains in performance. In other words, push your cpu just to gain some ocing street cred haha, but keep it at a suitable level that works for your required daily use.

Also, don't worry about the numbers turning yellow. Before I settled with a 4.6 oc, I was actually running a 4.7ghz oc with a set offset value well into the reds. There's nothing to worry about.

Edit: The BSOD error your getting is almost always associated with your cpu not getting enough vcore.

 

[Guest]

Thanks guys, got all my questions answered except one last question. I want to know by how much am i actually DECREASING my CPU life by going near 1.300 VOLTS? If you guys can link your sources that would be great! I want to know MARGINALLY how much CPU life is lost by overclocking at our levels, lets say 4.5 GHz. Thanks!

 

[DJDeCiBeL]

That's something I'm not sure anyone knows for sure. The only reports I've seen personally say that going over 1.5V can cause the CPU to only last a matter of days, but I woulds imagine that's under worst case scenarios, when they're 100% loaded until they die. At 1.3-1.35V, under a normal usage scenario, I'd say it'll last for MANY years (well past its usefulness). CPU's aren't exactly fragile. You have to REALLY abuse them to kill them.

Also, the speed has nothing at all to do with it, it's all about the voltage.

 

[Guest]

Okay thanks everyone, answered all my questions. so do I close the post now since its Solved or just leave it?

 

[curtc]

No problem buddy! Have you successfully overclocked your cpu yet?

If you are feeling a little bit adventurous, I would highly recommend using offset mode to overclock your system as opposed to a set manual voltage. Using offset mode allows your cpu to receive less vcore when it clocks down to 1.6ghz during idle (to ~0.9-1.0V). In turn, this results in lower average voltage and temps for your cpu (which also result in a longer lifespan for your cpu due to less electromigration and heat stress on your i5). In my opinion, I don't see much sense in pumping close to 1.35V into my processor when I'm doing relatively mundane things like surfing the web or writing essays. However, using offset mode can be slightly more complex since it involves significantly more trial and error, and playing around with your BIOS settings. If you are interested and need help, just give me a shout and I'd be happy to help.

Enjoy your overclock!

 

[Guest]

Okay, Offset Mode . . . I have no idea how it works There are 2 settings after I choose Offset Mode, one is + another is - . I am guessing that lets say i put + and i put 0.20 means it ADDS 0.20 to my CURRENT Voltage? Lol, i have NO idea how this works, help me out.
Oh and No i didnt Overclock after trying so hard. I go up to 1.350 and 4.5 GHz still doesnt boot so i just got pissed and reset everything back to STOCK. BTW, after you help me out with Offset, can you also tell me what Vcore my CPU should have at STOCK 3.3 GHz (3.7 Turbo) ? Because when i put AUTO it sets Vcore to 1.260 which is VERY HIGH because i OC at that Vcore to 4.2 GHz. Thanks!

 

[curtc]

You've pretty much got the gist of it. Essentially your mobo sets a voltage value for your cpu (called VID) and in BIOS you can manually set the offset value to either add or subtract increments from that value. But this definition is a very broad one, it gets much more complicated than that because often times the positive/negative offset you've set is not uniform when under load and during idle. It's a little difficult to explain, but I have a link you can take a look at to get a better understanding:

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?2162-Overclocking-Using-Offset-Mode-for-CPU-Core-Voltage

However, I don't recommend that you play around with offset just yet...you might be getting a little ahead of yourself. I would suggest that you find the right vcore for your goal oc first, then afterwards use offset to achieve that same oc. Not sure if you've tried already, but your ASUS AI Suite II should have an auto-tune future that allows your mobo to automatically oc your cpu. Doing this will give you a good idea of what your cpu can handle, because right now it seems to me that you are unfortunate enough to have a voltage-hungry cpu.

Edit: Sorry I forgot to answer your question. I'm not sure what the stock vcore is under load, but usually most people can push their i5's to about 4.0-4.3 without changing the vcore.

 

[Guest]

Very helpful thread! I completely understand Offset Mode now. Oh, and i attempted to overclock today and my after a BSOD from windows PC didnt Boot. It wouldnt make the POST beep anymore. SO i shut it down, left it for about 5 minutes and booted it up. It passed POST and got into BIOS, but BIOS was EXTREMELY LAGGY, it froze once for about 30 seconds. Good thing I waiting because I was about to forcefully shut it down. Finally, I got into the BIOS and reset the voltage into AUTO again and booted up perfectly. This happened because I attempted to BOOT at STOCK CLOCKS but at 1.2 Volts, VERY bad idea. Anyway, I am now starting to QUESTION my CM 212+ setup because I think I did something WRONG when applying Paste or just setting up the cooler itself. I think I put too much paste because at STOCK clock speeds and voltage I am at 40 Celsius. Is this Normal because if it is then that means I can only OC to about 4.2 - 4.3 GHz and after that I would start hitting the 70 Celsius range, WHICH I want to avoid. Well, actually 70 C with a STRESS TEST is what I am aiming for. Any ideas and opinions are welcome, give me some ideas of what you would do because I am completely lost. I am not sure what would be the BEST OC for MOST performance gain, OPTIMAL temperatures, OPTIMAL Voltage, and Optimal CPU LIFE.

EDIT: Oh almost forgot, I did NOT use the stock Thermal Paste that comes with CM 212+, I used IC Perihelion.

 

[DJDeCiBeL]

I actually OC with offsets myself (HAVE to on my P8Z68-V LE mobo, since you CAN'T use a manual Vcore), but I never totally understood it until I read over that link curt posted. Very informative indeed. I knew what voltages certain offsets gave me for my chip, so I was able to work off of that, but I never really understood exactly how it worked until now.


And I would say that you should be in the mid 30's at the most at stock idle. With my 212 Evo, my idle temp only gets into the 40ish range (41 on the warmest core) when I have the High Performance power profile set in Windows to stay at a constant 4.5 (at 1.336V).

Anyway, optimal life would require you to never OC at all, LOL , but seriously, if you stay below 1.4V and below around ~80C on a constant basis, you'll never have anything to worry about. IMO, people worry WAY too much about things like that. :lol: Like I said above, CPU's aren't fragile, you don't have to treat them with kid gloves, you just can't outright abuse them for extended periods...

 

[DJDeCiBeL]

Actually, if you truly ARE worried about how long it will last when OC'ing, then this is well worth the money. http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

It's the Performance Tuning Plan from Intel and it's basically OC insurance (different from the regular warranty). It's $20 for the 2500K and allows for a one time no questions asked replacement.

 

[curtc]

Once again, your BSOD at startup and it being unable to POST is most likely caused by your cpu not receiving enough vcore. Just curious, did you set your BIOS settings to the settings I've listed above? Because with LLC not enabled, vdroop may occur and cause instability even at idle.

And yes I believe you may have a point about your heatsink setup. Generally, with a CM212+ you should see idle temps in the mid 30s. However, since your cpu seems to need a bit more juice than others, your temps will run higher than average (since increase in temps is positively correlated with an increase in voltages). I like that you set your personal temp limit at 70, that is a good number but honestly the SB i5 2500k's can go up to the mid-70s (I personally set my limit at 70 too, intel's stated max is around 80).

To be honest, whenever you oc your cpu, you are trading away longevity for performance. So there isn't really an optimal cpu life whenever ocing is involved. However, people have pushed their oc's to the limit, topping out at around 4.8-5ghz @ close to 1.50V. Of course this setup will shorten the cpu's lifespan significantly. Thus, perhaps anywhere between 4.3-4.5 would be a good balance for performance and cpu life. Don't worry about going for that extra 100mhz, for your cpu I don't think the tradeoff is worth it and the performance gain is almost unnoticeable.

Just to sum things up:

Optimal gain: since your cpu seems to like more voltage than others, the tradeoff of higher clock speeds for significantly higher temps and voltages is not really worth it, 4.3-4.5ghz

Optimal temps: Intel's stated max is around 83, but personally I like to keep mine around 70. Again, you can bring it up to the mid-70s no problem, but this should be a warning sign that you are approaching the 80s. Also, keep in mind that running IBT and p95 will cause you to reach these temps, but while gaming you probably won't even break 65.

Optimal voltage: Intel's stated max is 1.52V, but after reading several forums and articles, I would keep the vcore below 1.40 under load. Once again, this number varies greatly from person to person...but it never hurts to give yourself that margin of error.

Don't give up on your oc man! I know you can pull it off, even at 4.2-4.4 you'll notice quite a difference from 3.3

EDIT: Finally found the link detailing the adverse effects of setting a vcore above 1.40V to oc your cpu (posted from Tom's no less!):

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/automatic-overclock-motherboard-cpu,3048.html

"We've learned through trial, error, and dead processors that voltage levels beyond 1.45 V at above-ambient temperatures can kill an Intel CPU etched at 32 nm (Sandy Bridge-based parts included) very quickly. Those same processors die a fairly slow death at voltage levels between 1.40 V and 1.45 V (somewhere between weeks and months on our test benches). And we're expecting more than a year of reliable service from the parts we've dutifully kept below 1.40 V. Not all motherboards are perfect however. Voltage instability on a particularly cheap motherboard fried one of our processors when it was set to only1.38 V. Subsequently, you've seen us use 1.35 V for the overclocking tests in older motherboard round-ups, embracing 1.38 V to 1.40 V in more recent pieces covering higher-end platforms. "

 

[curtc]

I actually OC with offsets myself (HAVE to on my P8Z68-V LE mobo, since you CAN'T use a manual Vcore), but I never totally understood it until I read over that link curt posted. Very informative indeed. I knew what voltages certain offsets gave me for my chip, so I was able to work off of that, but I never really understood exactly how it worked until now.


And I would say that you should be in the mid 30's at the most at stock idle. With my 212 Evo, my idle temp only gets into the 40ish range (41 on the warmest core) when I have the High Performance power profile set in Windows to stay at a constant 4.5 (at 1.336V).

Anyway, optimal life would require you to never OC at all, LOL , but seriously, if you stay below 1.4V and below around ~80C on a constant basis, you'll never have anything to worry about. IMO, people worry WAY too much about things like that. :lol: Like I said above, CPU's aren't fragile, you don't have to treat them with kid gloves, you just can't outright abuse them for extended periods...

+1

haha I took way too long typing up my message, DJDeCiBel beat me too it. Ya it will take quite a bit of abuse to get your cpu to die extra early...especially if you run a high oc 24/7.