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*Edit* 280w is not worth trying to power a graphics card, even a gt220

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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December 3, 2009 1:51:05 AM

Original post: when I was considering buying a Lenovo 2.8ghz desktop and simply upgrading the video card, chosing a light weight card because the specs on the desktop showed a 280w PSU.

Quote:
Trying to find a reasonable upgrade from the (miserable) integrated graphics on this PC:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


*Update, here is what happened*

Wow so it has been an exciting night.

Here is a list of everything I ordered from Newegg:

* ASUS VH226H Black 21.5" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen
* GeForce GT 220 512MB 128-bit GDDR2
* Lenovo Desktop PC

I excitedly unboxed my 2.8 ghz Lenovo PC and plugged in the GeForce GT220. The Vista Windows score went from 4.3 to 5.3.

Then on the next reboot the PSU fan sounded like it was going to launch out of the case for the moon. And the screen froze. :o  I thought "I am a moron, I read all of this in the forums even before it happened."

...Yep, the 280w didn't cut it. Heard a loud fan blast and it the screen froze. Not fun, and let this be a lesson to everyone who buys parts and crosses their fingers on the PSU.

So I did what any computer nerd did at 9pm. I drove to Bestbuy (since I refused to let my computer lay there, paralyzed and underpowered) and picked up a new PSU, a Thermaltake Black Widow rx-450 for $75. Thank goodness for holiday hours.

Luckily everything worked.
a c 1385 U Graphics card
December 3, 2009 1:54:53 AM

Only change would be HD4670 and that is not even guarantied.
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a b U Graphics card
December 3, 2009 3:09:16 AM

@artemenko how old is the PC(PSU)?
If it is not very old, then the HD 4670 would be able to run on that PSU as it doesnt require additional power connectors...
Other options...
GT220
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
9600 - But make sure its is a low power version as those dont draw much power and wont require separate power connectors...

But if the PC is old, then you can check out the HD 4650...anything lower would not be that suitable for gaming(If your intentions are to game i.e.,)...
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a b U Graphics card
December 3, 2009 3:39:23 AM

I run a Sapphire 4670 on a 250W PSU from HP, I can play Bioshock/ Crysis/ Far Cry 2/ Assassin's Creed for hours without anything happening.
Sure it's dangerous but no guts, no glory.
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December 3, 2009 12:20:15 PM

gkay09 said:
@artemenko how old is the PC(PSU)?
If it is not very old, then the HD 4670 would be able to run on that PSU as it doesnt require additional power connectors...
Other options...
GT220
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
9600 - But make sure its is a low power version as those dont draw much power and wont require separate power connectors...

But if the PC is old, then you can check out the HD 4650...anything lower would not be that suitable for gaming(If your intentions are to game i.e.,)...



Thanks very much! This helps a lot.
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December 9, 2009 2:31:28 AM

Wow so it has been an exciting night.

Here is a list of everything I ordered from Newegg:

* ASUS VH226H Black 21.5" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen
* GeForce GT 220 512MB 128-bit GDDR2
* Lenovo Desktop PC

I excitedly unboxed my 2.8 ghz Lenovo PC and plugged in the GeForce GT220. The Vista Windows score went from 4.3 to 5.3.

Then on the next reboot the PSU fan sounded like it was going to launch out of the case for the moon. And the screen froze. :o  I thought "I am a moron, I read all of this in the forums even before it happened."

...Yep, the 280w didn't cut it. Heard a loud fan blast and it the screen froze. Not fun, and let this be a lesson to everyone who buys parts and crosses their fingers on the PSU.

So I did what any computer nerd did at 9pm. I drove to Bestbuy (since I refused to let my computer lay there, paralyzed and underpowered) and picked up a new PSU, a Thermaltake Black Widow rx-450 for $75. Thank goodness for holiday hours.

Luckily everything worked.

Now I'm wondering... since I have a decent 450w PSU (and learned how to install one the hard way), should I return the GT 220 for something else?

I expect everyone to pretty much flame me now, so go for it.
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a b U Graphics card
December 9, 2009 2:33:49 AM

You can buy a decent 450-500watt PSU for about $50.
and I believe the 4670 and maybe the 5750 can run on your rig. There is a low power 5750 coming out soon as well...
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a b U Graphics card
December 9, 2009 3:01:27 AM

Yep ditch that gt 220 and go for a 4670 minimum.
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December 9, 2009 3:09:57 AM

Honestly I get confused because people throw around numbers like 8600 4670 9000 -- and they seem meaningless (high is not better than low). And then I go to research and the same numbers are used with a bazillion different manufacturers, MSI, Colorpower, Sparkle?

So when I see "4670 minimum" does this work?

I'm really just guessing. It's fustrating that almost nothing in the name of these cards (number, brand, manufacturer) tells you if one is better than another. Unless I'm just crappy at decoding them.
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a b U Graphics card
December 9, 2009 3:45:01 AM

artemenko said:
Colorpower


Its PowerColor! :D  :D 

The HD4670 would be the lowest card you can get. But still 280W is a bit too low. At least a decent 400W PSU you would needing. If Gigabyte Superb 460W is available get it. Its cheap and very good.
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a b U Graphics card
December 9, 2009 4:15:28 AM

Yes.

Usually for the numbers, this is how I sum it up:

First number = generation
Second number = overall tier designation
Third number = further categorizes it into lower/mid/high end tiers

4670:
4 = generation
6 = Overall mid tier
70 = "upper" tier of the mid tier

4650:
4 = generation
6 = Overall mid tier
50 = "mid" tier of the mid tier

4350:
4 = generation
5 = Overall lower-mid tier
50 = "mid" tier of the lower-mid tier

4830:
4 = generation
8 = Overall high tier
30 = "low" tier of the overall high tier

4850:
4 = generation
8 = Overall high tier
50 = "mid" tier of the high tier

4870:
4 = generation
8 = Overall high tier
70 = "high" tier of the high tier

4890:
4 = generation
8 = Overall high tier
90 = "highest" tier of the high tier



*The 4770 performs between a 4830 and 4850...probably because they couldn't name it the 4840...lol
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 9, 2009 4:35:38 AM

The GT 220 uses very little power. If it made your psu die then it was going to fail soon anyway. The bad news is that the GT 220 isn't really good at all for gaming, especially the DDR2 version, even at low resolutions. And you just went out and got a high resolution monitor. If you aren't a gamer the card will be fine however. If you are a gamer you are going to want a pretty decent card to go with that monitor. A GTS 250 is about the weakest you will want to consider. It costs $110 lately and will be ok but not particularly good at your resolution. I would recommend an HD5770. It's pretty good for your resolution, very power efficient, DX11 compatible and cost $165.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 9, 2009 4:37:57 AM

Both of those should be fine with your new PSU BTW.
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December 9, 2009 1:42:01 PM

Thanks jyjjy -- but the cards you recommended are out of my price range. I originally paid $65 for the gt220, so I need to stick to that.

But it does look like the Radeon HD 4670 was in a recent article here for best cards under $85.

Is it really worth all the trouble to send the gt220 back to Newegg for a refund and get the 4670?

Also -- which brand of 4670 is best?

And, are we 100% SURE the 4670 will work with 450w? I'm not going to shame myself again by going back to best buy for a nother "late night psu" run. :( 
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December 9, 2009 5:33:44 PM

Well... this was an early sign I guess:

Quote:
The GT 220 uses very little power. If it made your psu die then it was going to fail soon anyway.


After searching for a good free benchmarking program, I found the Streetfighter IV benchmark. In Vista, the machine scored a C and maintained a consistent 50-55 frames per second. Still, this beats my 4 year old gaming laptop handedly, which only got about 20 fps.

Anyways, on to my Steam games. Counterstrike, not so bad. Then Torchlight. Wow, what's up with all the diagonal lines? Why is my guy just a floating sword? Then rainbow colors and lines everywhere. Then BSOD.

Then I tried a DVD. Artifacts everywhere.

This card is garbage.

I unplugged it and took the card out -- and routed my new monitor to the onboard graphics. So far DVD playback is fine and Counterstrike source runs at laughable resolution -- but defect free. I think this rules out the integrated graphics/mobo.

RMA'ing the GT 220 as I write this. I have about a week or so to figure out a replacement. Thanks for everyone's support and help! I'll keep you updated.
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December 9, 2009 11:39:41 PM

jyjjy said:
Those artifacts sound like overheating.
Get an HD4670 if that is your budget. It should be at least 50% more powerful than a DDR2 GT 220. This is a good deal;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



Looks like that model is sold out at Newegg.... prob the "Tom Effect" lol
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 10, 2009 6:09:39 AM

Do not get that XFX card just linked. It has DDR2 ram, you want DDR3.
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December 10, 2009 4:41:06 PM

Thx jvjjy.

So -- while I wait for my return to process before buying a replacement card, any diagnostic tests I should run to make sure any of the earlier parts I put in did any permanent damage.

Right now, everything is running perfectly with the new 450w PSU and integrated graphics... but I want to be sure.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 11, 2009 11:40:28 AM

If everything is running fine you should be good. That ASUS card is back in stock for $45 btw.
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December 12, 2009 12:41:20 PM

jyjjy said:
If everything is running fine you should be good. That ASUS card is back in stock for $45 btw.



New challenge -- I'm waiting for the RMA to clear with Newegg, so then I have $65 back from Newegg plus a $50 Bestbuy card. I know, not ideal to go to Bestbuy but I have the gift card which bumps up my budget.

So... with my new price limit of $115 and using the handy Toms Hardware 2009 card review I found these in my new price range (but limited to Bestbuy):


$109.99 EVGA - GeForce 9800 GT 512MB DDR3 PCI Express Graphics Card

$115.99 Asus - GeForce 9800 GT 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express Graphics Card

Here's a link to the Bestbuy search query for my price range.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 12, 2009 5:53:17 PM

Honestly I would probably just save the Best Buy card for something else. Their prices tend to be $30-40 more anyway so you are just throwing most of the card away essentially.
Or you could Ebay it. I just checked and the going price for a $50 Best Buy card seems to be $45.
You'll then have $110 to use on newegg which can get you a GTS 250 or HD4770;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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a c 1385 U Graphics card
December 12, 2009 6:06:30 PM

artemenko said:
Honestly I get confused because people throw around numbers like 8600 4670 9000 -- and they seem meaningless (high is not better than low). And then I go to research and the same numbers are used with a bazillion different manufacturers, MSI, Colorpower, Sparkle?

So when I see "4670 minimum" does this work?

I'm really just guessing. It's fustrating that almost nothing in the name of these cards (number, brand, manufacturer) tells you if one is better than another. Unless I'm just crappy at decoding them.

This forum is on a hardware site so decoding is easy, as an example http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-310-5970,24...
If some of the people that ask questions in here bothered with googling or even reading a little bit on tomshardware.com we would not have so many questions to answer.
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December 12, 2009 6:18:20 PM

jyjjy said:
Honestly I would probably just save the Best Buy card for something else. Their prices tend to be $30-40 more anyway so you are just throwing most of the card away essentially.
Or you could Ebay it. I just checked and the going price for a $50 Best Buy card seems to be $45.
You'll then have $110 to use on newegg which can get you a GTS 250 or HD4770;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


How about this one? It's only a $5 premium over New Egg w/ 99 cent shipping

$120 XFX - ATI Radeon HD 4770 512MB DDR5 PCI Express
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Best solution

a c 376 U Graphics card
December 12, 2009 6:23:07 PM

It's $20 over newegg, but still not too bad. Might as well go for it.
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December 12, 2009 6:25:59 PM

jyjjy -- thanks for all of your help. I selected your answer above as the "best" to get you credit... even though you answered about a dozen other questions.

Thank you!
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!