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My Bill Has Now Migrated

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March 10, 2005 7:53:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

I got one of my bills yesterday and this month, it only has Cingular
name and logo on it. For the past few months it had both ATT and
Cingular on it. I guess this completes the transition to Cingular.

More about : bill migrated

Anonymous
March 10, 2005 5:02:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

In article <1110459185.679509.277790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"Kev" <KevinKitchen@gmail.com> wrote:

> I got one of my bills yesterday and this month, it only has Cingular
> name and logo on it. For the past few months it had both ATT and
> Cingular on it. I guess this completes the transition to Cingular.

Depends. Is the bill a new format (meaning it was tarnsitioned to
Cingular systems), or is it the same old format with a New Logo on top
(meaning nothing has been transitioned) so it comes from ATTWS computer
systems.
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 6:11:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Kev" <KevinKitchen@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110459185.679509.277790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>I got one of my bills yesterday and this month, it only has Cingular
> name and logo on it. For the past few months it had both ATT and
> Cingular on it. I guess this completes the transition to Cingular.
>

Cingular has an internal deadline of March 31st to be totally clean of the
AWS logos and all AWS branding.

You are still billed on the Cingular Blue systems until you migrate to a
Cingular Orange handset and plan.

--
JJ
Related resources
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 6:21:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

In article <lsZXd.65412$SQ4.4084@fe1.texas.rr.com>,
"Jiu Jitsuperfly" <jiujitsuperfly@satx.rr.complicated> wrote:

>
> "Kev" <KevinKitchen@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1110459185.679509.277790@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >I got one of my bills yesterday and this month, it only has Cingular
> > name and logo on it. For the past few months it had both ATT and
> > Cingular on it. I guess this completes the transition to Cingular.
> >
>
> Cingular has an internal deadline of March 31st to be totally clean of the
> AWS logos and all AWS branding.
>
> You are still billed on the Cingular Blue systems until you migrate to a
> Cingular Orange handset and plan.

So much for integration.
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 1:50:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

> You will not have to pay a porting fee, and if you provide your own
> equipment, you will not have to pay that upgrade fee.

--> My understanding was that even existing AT&T Wireless (now Cingular)
customers would be charged an activation fee. Is this not correct?

I was also told that selecting a Cingular plan would require a Cingular
phone. They will not unlock existing AT&T Wireless equipment. Is this not
correct?

-Dan
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 10:06:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

>>You will not have to pay a porting fee, and if you provide your own
>>equipment, you will not have to pay that upgrade fee.
>
> --> My understanding was that even existing AT&T Wireless (now Cingular)
> customers would be charged an activation fee. Is this not correct?

I have never heard of ATTWS customers actually being charged a new
activation fee. Cingular does, however, impose an equipment upgrade fee
of $18 per eligible line. This is for all Cingular customers, including
those of AT&T Wireless. If you purchase a phone that required it be
shipped to you and wish to wait until you physically have the handset to
port your number, the billing system may automatically generate a "phone
number change" charge. Of course, they will be more than happy to
remove it.

> I was also told that selecting a Cingular plan would require a Cingular
> phone. They will not unlock existing AT&T Wireless equipment. Is this not
> correct?

This is correct, ATTWS phones will remain locked. However, if you have
an unlocked GSM phone (or a used Cingular phone), you can get a SIM card
only and avoid the purchase of additional equipment.
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 10:06:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

> I have never heard of ATTWS customers actually being charged a new
> activation fee. Cingular does, however, impose an equipment upgrade fee
> of $18 per eligible line.
--> Having been an ATTWS customer for years, and having upgraded my lines, I
have never been charged this fee. It may be a "normal fee" for Cingular,
but it's news to me. Forgive me calling it an activation fee. Whatever
it's called, it would not have effected an existing ATTWS customer buying a
new phone on ATTWS. Of course, ATTWS does not exist any more, and we are
all Cingular customers now and that's a big part of my point. I find it
really odd how Cingular continues to distinguish "ATTWS" customers from
their own "normal" customers when it suits them, but in actuality all ATTWS
customers already are Cingular customers period.

> This is correct, ATTWS phones will remain locked. However, if you have an
> unlocked GSM phone (or a used Cingular phone), you can get a SIM card only
> and avoid the purchase of additional equipment.
--> How many ATTWS customers have an unlocked GSM phone sitting around? The
bottom line is that Cingular is forcing ATTWS customers to purchase new
equipment when they change plans, even in cases where the ATTWS equipment is
otherwise technology compatible.

The bigger issue here is that ATTWS customers *cannot* choose any former
ATTWS rate plan. Sooner or latter, all of us ATTWS customers need to make a
choice. We either pay Cingulars equipment upgrade fee and buy a new phone
to enable us to choose a Cingular plan that is in many cases worse than what
we have now, or we switch carriers entirely. Due to these required costs,
the price will be about the same either way.

I consider Cingular slimey because of the way they are handling this. My
TDMA/analog lines have become almost useless. Dramatic capacity issues
(dial 5 times to place one call) are now common. I am also unable to use my
TDMA/analog phones in places they used to have strong signal. It's as if
Cingular is intentionally turning off every- other TDMA/analog tower to "put
the hurt" on us to change over, or they simply aren't maintaining the old
system when it fails (which seems like an unlikely coincidence).

Our Cingular store continues to sell the old prepaid Free2go phones, and
when I asked about TDMA/analog support they told me things would continue
just fine for the foreseeable future. This is when I added my last Free2go
pone a couple months ago. I recently visted the same store to report
TDMA/analog problems and the guy at the store said that's to be expected--
pretty much to say sorry, that system is not supported now, and we're
hearing constant complaints. Part of my beef is that this same store is
still selling Free2go phones, and just two months earlier encouraged me to
buy another line.

If you're going to sell a service, support it. If you refuse to support it,
don't sell it. I find it crazy that anyone even talks about being an ATTWS
customer now when that company doesn't currently exist. Obviously Cingular
simply wants their customers to pay the transition cost. To me, that's
slime.

-Dan

--

=======================
Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
http://cell.uoregon.edu

--
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 11:51:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Dan Albrich Wrote:
> > I have never heard of ATTWS customers actually being charged a new
> > activation fee. Cingular does, however, impose an equipment upgrade
> fee
> > of $18 per eligible line.
> --> Having been an ATTWS customer for years, and having upgraded my
> lines, I
> have never been charged this fee. It may be a "normal fee" for
> Cingular,
> but it's news to me. Forgive me calling it an activation fee.
> Whatever
> it's called, it would not have effected an existing ATTWS customer
> buying a
> new phone on ATTWS. Of course, ATTWS does not exist any more, and we
> are
> all Cingular customers now and that's a big part of my point. I find
> it
> really odd how Cingular continues to distinguish "ATTWS" customers
> from
> their own "normal" customers when it suits them, but in actuality all
> ATTWS
> customers already are Cingular customers period.
>
> > This is correct, ATTWS phones will remain locked. However, if you
> have an
> > unlocked GSM phone (or a used Cingular phone), you can get a SIM card
> only
> > and avoid the purchase of additional equipment.
> --> How many ATTWS customers have an unlocked GSM phone sitting around?
> The
> bottom line is that Cingular is forcing ATTWS customers to purchase
> new
> equipment when they change plans, even in cases where the ATTWS
> equipment is
> otherwise technology compatible.
>
> The bigger issue here is that ATTWS customers *cannot* choose any
> former
> ATTWS rate plan. Sooner or latter, all of us ATTWS customers need to
> make a
> choice. We either pay Cingulars equipment upgrade fee and buy a new
> phone
> to enable us to choose a Cingular plan that is in many cases worse than
> what
> we have now, or we switch carriers entirely. Due to these required
> costs,
> the price will be about the same either way.
>
> I consider Cingular slimey because of the way they are handling this.
> My
> TDMA/analog lines have become almost useless. Dramatic capacity
> issues
> (dial 5 times to place one call) are now common. I am also unable to
> use my
> TDMA/analog phones in places they used to have strong signal. It's as
> if
> Cingular is intentionally turning off every- other TDMA/analog tower to
> "put
> the hurt" on us to change over, or they simply aren't maintaining the
> old
> system when it fails (which seems like an unlikely coincidence).
>
> Our Cingular store continues to sell the old prepaid Free2go phones,
> and
> when I asked about TDMA/analog support they told me things would
> continue
> just fine for the foreseeable future. This is when I added my last
> Free2go
> pone a couple months ago. I recently visted the same store to report
> TDMA/analog problems and the guy at the store said that's to be
> expected--
> pretty much to say sorry, that system is not supported now, and we're
> hearing constant complaints. Part of my beef is that this same store
> is
> still selling Free2go phones, and just two months earlier encouraged me
> to
> buy another line.
>
> If you're going to sell a service, support it. If you refuse to
> support it,
> don't sell it. I find it crazy that anyone even talks about being an
> ATTWS
> customer now when that company doesn't currently exist. Obviously
> Cingular
> simply wants their customers to pay the transition cost. To me,
> that's
> slime.
>
> -Dan
>
> --
>
> =======================
> Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
> http://cell.uoregon.edu
>
> --

It's not a transition cost. Anytime any customer upgrades their
equipment, there is an $18 charge. It doesn't matter if you were with
AT&T or have been with Cingular for 10 years. If I as a Cingular
customer have to pay it, why shouldn't an AT&T customer?

You even said yourself that AT&T does not exist. But then you complain
that you won't be able to keep your rate plan if you sign up with
Cingular. No logic there whatsoever.

As far as using AT&T equipment with Cingular, it's possible, you just
have to get the unlock code. If you have the unlock code, you don't
have to purchase a new phone. There is no benefit for Cingular when
you purchase one of their phones other than the fact that you advertise
the Cingular name. Stores actually lose money on the phone itself, in
return making a profit off of the contract that you sign.
Hypothetically you could take an unlocked AT&T phone into a Cingular
store, have it activated with a Cingular rate plan, with no commitment
whatsoever. If you're in a position where your phone is no longer
working with AT&T, fine, Cingular will give you a free phone with a
contract, you don't have to "Buy" a new phone unless you want something
fancy.

It seems you are suggesting Cingular should have people unlock all 20
million former AT&T wireless phones, just so they can take it to
Cingular.

I'm not understanding what your complaint it at all.


--
scott14661
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cell Phone Forums: http://cellphoneforums.net
View this thread: http://cellphoneforums.net/t169192.html
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 6:05:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Dan Albrich wrote:
>>I have never heard of ATTWS customers actually being charged a new
>>activation fee. Cingular does, however, impose an equipment upgrade fee
>>of $18 per eligible line.
>
> --> Having been an ATTWS customer for years, and having upgraded my lines, I
> have never been charged this fee. It may be a "normal fee" for Cingular,
> but it's news to me. Forgive me calling it an activation fee. Whatever
> it's called, it would not have effected an existing ATTWS customer buying a
> new phone on ATTWS. Of course, ATTWS does not exist any more, and we are
> all Cingular customers now and that's a big part of my point. I find it
> really odd how Cingular continues to distinguish "ATTWS" customers from
> their own "normal" customers when it suits them, but in actuality all ATTWS
> customers already are Cingular customers period.

But...that doesn't seem to be the case. Here's the scenario: I signed
up with an Orange plan in February 2003. In March of 2004, I wanted to
get a new phone. I was required to pay the upgrade fee for the new
phone. However, I choose to purchase a different phone (not available
from Cingular at the time) from a different source.

All ATTWS, including myself, are now in this category. I went the other
way - I migrated to ATTWS after Cingular aquired them (North American
package).

>>This is correct, ATTWS phones will remain locked. However, if you have an
>>unlocked GSM phone (or a used Cingular phone), you can get a SIM card only
>>and avoid the purchase of additional equipment.
>
> --> How many ATTWS customers have an unlocked GSM phone sitting around? The
> bottom line is that Cingular is forcing ATTWS customers to purchase new
> equipment when they change plans, even in cases where the ATTWS equipment is
> otherwise technology compatible.

A few features may not work correctly without a Cingular branded phone,
and if Cingular provides lock codes to current ATTWS customers, it would
be expected to provide technical support. Cingular, in reality, doesn't
care if you use an unlocked ATTWS phone, but it just doesn't want to be
responsible to support technical issues such as WAP/GPRS/EDGE issues, to
name a big one.

> The bigger issue here is that ATTWS customers *cannot* choose any former
> ATTWS rate plan. Sooner or latter, all of us ATTWS customers need to make a
> choice. We either pay Cingulars equipment upgrade fee and buy a new phone
> to enable us to choose a Cingular plan that is in many cases worse than what
> we have now, or we switch carriers entirely. Due to these required costs,
> the price will be about the same either way.

Do you have a foundation discount of any kind? I have a generous one,
which is why I migrated, and yesterday when I checked, the old ATTWS
base rate plans were still there. I didn't check to see if the add-ons
changed. I did notice, however, that there were a lot of Cingular
phones in the choices.

> I consider Cingular slimey because of the way they are handling this. My
> TDMA/analog lines have become almost useless. Dramatic capacity issues
> (dial 5 times to place one call) are now common. I am also unable to use my
> TDMA/analog phones in places they used to have strong signal. It's as if
> Cingular is intentionally turning off every- other TDMA/analog tower to "put
> the hurt" on us to change over, or they simply aren't maintaining the old
> system when it fails (which seems like an unlikely coincidence).

I doubt this is the case. I just don't think Cingular would hurt a
large portion (probably somewhere between 5 and 25% of its customers) in
such a way. There is probably actually a technical issue. Remember,
Cingular is switching all ATTWS blue systems into Cingular Orange.

I work for a company that did some contracting for Cingular, and let me
tell you, integrating the two is no easy task (and this is even going to
be one of the easier integrations in the telecom industry). There are
many many techical aspects that engineers have no idea what *all* exact
outcomes will be until after any aspect is affected. It's very
difficult to integrate 2 national networks with a lot of overlap (which
shouldn't be the case in your area though).

> Our Cingular store continues to sell the old prepaid Free2go phones, and
> when I asked about TDMA/analog support they told me things would continue
> just fine for the foreseeable future. This is when I added my last Free2go
> pone a couple months ago. I recently visted the same store to report
> TDMA/analog problems and the guy at the store said that's to be expected--
> pretty much to say sorry, that system is not supported now, and we're
> hearing constant complaints. Part of my beef is that this same store is
> still selling Free2go phones, and just two months earlier encouraged me to
> buy another line.

That could be a problem with the associates of that store. I agree

> If you're going to sell a service, support it. If you refuse to support it,
> don't sell it. I find it crazy that anyone even talks about being an ATTWS
> customer now when that company doesn't currently exist. Obviously Cingular
> simply wants their customers to pay the transition cost. To me, that's
> slime.

I do agree with you it's not good that your phone is functioning (or not
fucntioning) like that. However, I do find that if the local managers
and associates allow the product to be sold when they know it's buggy or
doesn't work like it is supposed to, that is unethical. It's the people
who live and work in your community being unethical, because they are
the front line to the customer, and they could say something.

If you provide an appropriate handset, you will not have to pay an
upgrade, and if you are not currently under contract (providing your own
equipment), Cingular will not require you to sign a contract. Of all
the major carriers, Cingular is the only one who will give you good
deals without a contract (only mobile to mobile is not included for new
noncontract customers).

> -Dan

I'm sorry you're having such a horrible time. I hope things change for
the better, and soon. I'm having the opposite experience -- my coverage
has improved, dropped calls are a thing of the past, and roaming
coverage is increasing, but I'm on GSM, and I'm in Florida, so the
situation is different. TDMA here seems to be quite stable, and even
getting a little better. But again, opposite ends of the country.

TH
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 1:21:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

> It's not a transition cost. Anytime any customer upgrades their
> equipment, there is an $18 charge. It doesn't matter if you were with
> AT&T or have been with Cingular for 10 years. If I as a Cingular
> customer have to pay it, why shouldn't an AT&T customer?

--> It's a new fee for ATTWS customers that did not exist prior.
It's also similar in cost to an activation fee with another carrier if the
user
chooses to go to another carrier rather than Cingular. Why charge somone
at all for upgrading a phone? This
is not common cellular practice. i.e. Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint don't
charge this fee (just for example). This is especially odd because
in GSM land you simply move the SIM. The carrier need not be
bothered with an ESN swap.

> You even said yourself that AT&T does not exist. But then you complain
> that you won't be able to keep your rate plan if you sign up with
> Cingular. No logic there whatsoever.

--> My point is that former ATTWS customers cannot choose any prior
ATTWS plan because those don't exist. Over time most of us have
changes with our plans-- say add a line, or move up or down in minutes.
My understanding is that ATTWS customers cannot make any plan
changes short of taking on a Cingular plan with it's features or lack
thereof.

The point is ATTWS customers cannot make any changes whatsoever that
don't incur similar cost as switching carriers would. You'd think Cingular
would welcome the existing ATTWS customers into the family, maybe even
offer them special deals to switch over to Cingular plans. On the whole,
ATTWS plans were and are a better value than existing Cingular plans.

> It seems you are suggesting Cingular should have people unlock all 20
> million former AT&T wireless phones, just so they can take it to
> Cingular.

--> Yes, that is what I am saying, and no unlocking a phone is not a big
deal for a carrier. It's simply the cost of doing business when you acquire
another carrier-- that is, if you care about keeping the old customers.

ATTWS customers did not choose to be acquired. None of the existing Cingular
plans can match any of my prior ATTWS plans. I'll have to pay more money for
less
minutes, and that's just the beginning. The service quality has gone down
in my area.
I get to pay the new "standard" equipment upgrade fee, and buy a new phone.
A free phone that requires a contract is infact not free.

> I'm not understanding what your complaint it at all.
--> You probably never had the benefit of years of good service with ATTWS
to understand that we lost something when they were acquired.
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 2:44:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Tropical Haven" <user@example.net> wrote in message news:423315F9.1070403@example.net...
<snip>
> There will be some integration issues, and eventually all ATTWS
> handsets will be "officially" out of commission. No different
> from Verizon making most (if not all) legacy handsets out of
> commission on its system. It really could be a lot worse.
>
I think most people will decide what to do when they're forced
to choose, i.e. when the TDMA coverage in their area disappears.
I hope Cingular has some competitive budget GSM plans in place
by that time, but they sure don't have anything for me now at $30.
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 4:13:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Dan Albrich" <dalbrich@uoregon.edui> wrote in message
news:8ZOdnWfnT6oeF6_fRVn-jA@comcast.com...
>> It's not a transition cost. Anytime any customer upgrades their
>> equipment, there is an $18 charge. It doesn't matter if you were with
>> AT&T or have been with Cingular for 10 years. If I as a Cingular
>> customer have to pay it, why shouldn't an AT&T customer?
>
> --> It's a new fee for ATTWS customers that did not exist prior.


Yes it did exist prior and the upgrade fee was $15 I believe. The reason
most people weren't charged this fee is because store managers, and
salespeople removed the charge from the customers bill.

Along those lines...this is why AWS is out of business. You can't give
evrything away and be profitable


> It's also similar in cost to an activation fee with another carrier if the
> user
> chooses to go to another carrier rather than Cingular. Why charge somone
> at all for upgrading a phone? This
> is not common cellular practice. i.e. Verizon, T-Mobile, Sprint don't
> charge this fee (just for example). This is especially odd because
> in GSM land you simply move the SIM. The carrier need not be
> bothered with an ESN swap.


I don't know where you get your info but alot of carriers now charge upgrade
fees. Verizon being tops among them.


>
>> You even said yourself that AT&T does not exist. But then you complain
>> that you won't be able to keep your rate plan if you sign up with
>> Cingular. No logic there whatsoever.
>
> --> My point is that former ATTWS customers cannot choose any prior
> ATTWS plan because those don't exist. Over time most of us have
> changes with our plans-- say add a line, or move up or down in minutes.
> My understanding is that ATTWS customers cannot make any plan
> changes short of taking on a Cingular plan with it's features or lack
> thereof.


You can change your AWS plan. Whoever said you couldn't is wrong. You can
also add a line at anytime. Phones are just hard to come by. I was told Blue
CS has phones available for customers wishing to add a line or dealing with
warranty issue.


>
> The point is ATTWS customers cannot make any changes whatsoever that
> don't incur similar cost as switching carriers would. You'd think
> Cingular
> would welcome the existing ATTWS customers into the family, maybe even
> offer them special deals to switch over to Cingular plans. On the whole,
> ATTWS plans were and are a better value than existing Cingular plans.


Like was stated previously. AWS is out of business because it could not
fiscally maintain its business practice of giving everything away.


>
>> It seems you are suggesting Cingular should have people unlock all 20
>> million former AT&T wireless phones, just so they can take it to
>> Cingular.
>
> --> Yes, that is what I am saying, and no unlocking a phone is not a big
> deal for a carrier. It's simply the cost of doing business when you
> acquire
> another carrier-- that is, if you care about keeping the old customers.
>
> ATTWS customers did not choose to be acquired. None of the existing
> Cingular
> plans can match any of my prior ATTWS plans. I'll have to pay more money
> for less
> minutes, and that's just the beginning. The service quality has gone down
> in my area.
> I get to pay the new "standard" equipment upgrade fee, and buy a new
> phone.
> A free phone that requires a contract is infact not free.

They wouldn't have to just unlock your phone but have the firmware
reflashed, and software dl'ed as well. You honestly don't think this would
be a money losing proposition???

There is no way you could reflash 20 million phones. Unlocking isn't a
simple task either considering some phones require a cable and special
software.

--
JJ
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 5:20:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

I do appreciate the thoughtful replies I received to this thread, especially
from Tropical Haven. I am pleased that the folks in this thread have had a
good experience with Cingular which gives me hope that they are, or can be
decent.

Each carrier has certain policies likely to annoy someone, and each person's
perception of those policies will vary.

-Dan

PS: One side-note that I had time to verify. Verizon does not currently
charge any equipment upgrade fee save the cost of the new phone. None of
the carriers that I've used for more than a year (ATTWS, Voicestream,
Verizon) have ever charged me such a fee, and yes I have upgraded my
equipment with each.

--

=======================
Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
http://cell.uoregon.edu

--
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 6:55:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

> If you're in a verizon wireless area they are fine.

I could send you to some places in North Dakota and Montana...
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 8:09:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <BKudnWVfS76wk6vfRVn-1A@comcast.com> on Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:20:34 -0800,
"Dan Albrich" <dalbrich@uoregon.edui> wrote:

>PS: One side-note that I had time to verify. Verizon does not currently
>charge any equipment upgrade fee save the cost of the new phone. None of
>the carriers that I've used for more than a year (ATTWS, Voicestream,
>Verizon) have ever charged me such a fee, and yes I have upgraded my
>equipment with each.

That's because the cost is bundled into the net price of the phone.
TANSTAAFL.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
!