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NO gaming, but HD video edit+ multitasking;< 2000$

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December 4, 2009 12:38:20 AM

Hi everyone!
It seems like it is mostly gamers here :)  , but I'm sure there are plenty of expertice here to help people like me too..?
Bought my first computer in -85 and started to build them myself in -92.
I'm living and working in front of my two screens, but I'm not a regular visitor to THG...
I'm an architect and have absolutely no interest in gaming. Last game played was "Wolfenstein" and "Flashback" back in -93(?).

But, I like/need to have plenty of browsertabs and programs running, and editing HD video + edit/stitching HUGE jpg-panoramaes (so far "only" up to 370 megapixels). Sometimes PSD-files (PhotoShop) with 100 layers with 21 Mp images...
In my work I use AutoCAD, usually 2D, but sometimes 3D.

My current setup:
Processor : Intel Core 2 Duo E4500, 2.2 GHz
Mainboard : Micro-Star P4M890M3-V
Monitor Type : 2 x Samsung SyncMaster 245B (1920x1200). Will upgrade to 27" 2560x1600 next year.
Video Card : NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT
3GB RAM
Windows Ultimate 64bit

I need/want a lot more speed, and I want to buy something like listed below.
I would really appricate your comments on the list, and your suggestions.
Is this a good setup for my needs?
Where should/could I spend more/less money?

My new setup..?
AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition. Or Intel...?
Radeon HD 5850 1GB . Overkill?
Corsair SSD Performance P128 2,5" 128GB
ASUS M4A79T Deluxe, Socket-AM3
Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333MHz 8GB CL9. Maybe 16 GB?
Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
Lite-On iHES208 Combo Blu-Ray
2 x 27" LCD's, 2560x1600.

I have a 650w powersuplly. I assume I can still use that?
I will probaly buy a new HD (1TB), but still use my 250 and 500 GB HDs, DVD-burners and others)

The prices in Norway are like Neweggs prices.
I know that many of you can only dream of using this kind of money on your hardware, but you will get there too!
My first HD (a 10 MB), cost me 3.500$ in -85. Be happy you didn't had this "hobby" then :) 

It's 3 AM here, so don't expect any feedback from me the next few hours :)  Need some sleep now..
December 4, 2009 2:12:54 AM

^ For your usage, the i7 920 would better suit - Triple-Channel memory, 8 logical cores...And it would easily come inside your budget too...
i7 920
ASUS P6T
6GB DDR3 1600MHz/ 1333MHz preferrably lower timings/ CAS
SSD - You might want to check out the Intel GEN 2 80GB ones...they offer very good performance...
Graphics card - Yes HD 5850 is an overkill...
Maybe the HD 5750 would better suit...So spend the extra money somewhere else like extra RAM (12GB)that would be very usful for your usage ....
And do you really need the WIN 7 Ultimate ? I feel even the PRO would do...

What case have you selected ?
December 4, 2009 9:32:26 AM

Thanks a lot gkay09! Extremly helpful advices. I always listen carefully to what veterans says...
The more I learn, the more I understand how little i know... (I'm 54 years, and belive I know a lot by now...)
I have checked out your recommendations, and studied them carefully. For the first time I have also studied the term "timings" for RAM, and that was very useful to know!

ASUS P6T is only available as "ASUS P6T SE, X58" at my supplier. Maybe that is the one you suggest..?

RAM: Crucial DDR3 1066MHz 12GB KIT, CL7 should be a good choice? (510$. Cant find this at newegg. The link is to my supplier in Norway)

SSD: Intel X25-M SSD 80GB 2,5" was a good recommendation!

Graphics card: Maybe this one..? ASUS EAH5750 FORMULA/2DI/1GD5/A Radeon HD 5750 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card.

Windows PRO/Ultimate? You're right. After studying the differences, I agree. PRO is best for me.

Case: Maybe the Antec P183 will do?

Power: Maybe this is a good choice?: CHIEFTEC A135 APS-600C 600W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS. The same modell in Norway is listed as 550w... Maybe it has something to do with the difference in voltage ? (we use 240v/50Hz)

HD: Samsung SpinPoint F1 1TB SATA2 I usually buy Samsung HD's, but maybe the Western Digital Caviar® GreenPower 1TB is a better choice...?

Thanks again for your comments/advices!
Related resources
December 4, 2009 11:43:23 AM

Thanks for your input bddazza!

When you say overprized, I assume you mean overkill...?

Do you have any experience from using a computer the way I do?

("But, I like/need to have plenty of browsertabs and programs running, and editing HD video + edit/stitching HUGE jpg-panoramaes (so far "only" up to 370 megapixels). Sometimes PSD-files (PhotoShop) with 100 layers with 21 Mp images... ")

I also like to work at many things simultaneously. It's very cost effective, and I have to think like that since my clients pay me 100-150$ per hour....

I hadn't heard about Foxconn before now. They have recently began to sell in Norway too.

I don't mind paying some extra, but I don't like to be a "fool" either, and/or waste money...

Is the 30-50 US you will help me save, or do you mean that you suggestions are better than the ASUS?

I'm well off, so a few bucks more isn't a big issue.
December 4, 2009 12:30:30 PM

Thanks again bddazza.
I agree in most of what you say, but usually you get what you pay for.
I am aware about the risk of buying components that is not "right" for each other. That's why I ask you all..

I am listening to experts though, and apriciate all input, from everyone, and learn more all the time...

I'm not very concerend about brand names, but I will buy all parts at the same place (www.komplett.no), and they don't carry foxconn.




Thanks again!
December 4, 2009 1:07:55 PM

Quote:
But you have to remember, there is a difference between getting what you pay for and getting what you need.

Like I said earlier, you are only pay for features, mostly overclocking features. You do not strike me as the type of person that is going to go into your bios much let alone overclock your processor. In which case any socket 1366 motherboard will suffice - remember you do not loose performance only features.

I took a quick look at Komplett, I used Google to translate it into English, and you can get the
MSI X58M, Socket-1366 or XFX SLI X58, Socket-1366 for slightly cheaper than the ASUS. Both motherboards have the same basic features as the ASUS motherboard you posted earlier.



I have "visited" BIOS thousands of times bddazza, and flashed it a lot of times too.
But, you're right, I'm not used to overclocking. I have done it many times, but it was risky before. I now i see that Tom says it is practically unrisky. He have to say it is almost riskfree (not completly riskfree, as I read between his lines) too avoid trouble...

So for sure, I will now start overclocking my PC's, but probaly not to the limit. First of all, I need stablity.

I have had a brief look at the MB's youre suggest, and will study them more carefully later. I have had more MSI MB's than ASUS, so again, it's not a brand thing.
December 4, 2009 5:06:41 PM

Quote:
By the way, the build looks good. I'd recommend the SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 . The SAMSUNG EcoGreen F2 is also good, slightly slower but its quiet!



I will definitely not spend long time on learning about overclocking, but if I understand you correctly, it's both easy, safe and simple to push the Intel Core i7 920 / 2.66 GHz prosessor to 3.5 GHz...? (I won't held you responsible for damages.. ;)  )
No extra cooling neccesarry...?

I haven't added up the the wattage for this rig, but I have a feeling that 650w power isn't enough...
tried to find the power consumption for the various components, but many manfufacturers don't list it!

I found a nice article though, The Power Saving Guidehere at THG, that was very nice (like all of Toms articles), and I'm even more convinced now to buy a 750 w power instead of 650 w. Maybe even bigger...just to be on the safe side.
It was a surprice that many graphic card use 3-400w, some even close to 500 w! (in 3D)
December 7, 2009 2:35:35 AM

^ @ArnsteinB first off I would say you to change the PSU...I dont think that chieftec would be a good option...
One of the most important part of the PC is the PSU...So never skimp on it...
Get this PSU ...
Corsair 550VX
http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=339898

And as you main usage will not be gaming(So no multiple cards required
) you wont need anything more than this 550W...It can also power the fastest single chip card out there - HD 5870...

And to an extent I would agree with BDDazza but not completely...
The ASRock board is a good option but still in terms of operating stability, the ASUS, Gigabyte boards would be better...
Reason - The internal components(PVM regulation, capacitors, chokes,..) used on these boards are of better quality than the rest of the boards(Except EVGA, which is also as good as these manufacturers)...
And the ASUS P6T SE is a decent board...
And I dint understand 1 thing...how come there are 2 listings of the P6T SE ?
http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=494011
http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=439503
Am I missing something ?

And 12GB for your usage by no means would be an overkill...I have used PCs with that much RAM on this which are used mainly for Video editing and Photoshop and I must say that more RAM helps in these tasks...the apps respond faster as these are totally loaded onto the RAM so they dont need to access the page files on the HDDs(which is slow generally)
This kit would be good...
http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=438701

HDD - Samsung F3 1TB
http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=496258

CASE - P183 is fine...
December 7, 2009 3:46:42 AM

Sorry if I missed something as I quickly glanced through the responses.

Just get a Commodore 64. That should be good enough :p 

Back to 2009 now.
The Intel X25 is extremely fast. I replaced 4 10k rpm Raptors in Raid for the OS with a single X25 and it made the Raptors feel 10yrs old.

With your budget and needs, I would go with 24GB of ram. When I was a photographer, I only had 8GB of ram and constantly hit the scratch disk using 24MP images. I can only imagine how large 370MP is.

Because your images are so large, what about 2 X25 SSDs and run in Raid 0. Put the OS, Apps and scratch disk on it.

For video card: get as much VRam as possible because of how Photoshop uses the GPU to accelerate things. The more VRam, the more pixel info can be stored.

For motherboard: some have their preferences. I like the ASUS P6T, and so do many fellow video editors. The P6T SE is a step below the P6T, and the SE's capacitors aren't as good.(longer life, better overclocking stability)

gkay, the first P6T listing is a Demo.

The Antec P183 case is very good quality and very quiet. It just limits the size of video card that can fit inside. I don't know if the ATI 5xxx series will fit.

Corsair, SeaSonic and PC Power & Cooling are the top power supplies so you can't go wrong.

Btw, what 27" 2560x1600 LCDs are you referring to?
December 7, 2009 5:28:33 AM

^ I wouldn't suggest 2x SSDs in RAID 0 for now - Reason - TRIM is not supported when the SSDs are in RAID config as of now...So later on when they get support for RAID, you can go for that...

And as for 24 GB RAM, it would easily blow the budget out of proportion...Reason : 4GB sticks are very costly as of now...And for a 24GB, you would have to spend ~2K USD...Even though it would benefit but I dont see how it would warrant that price increase...And also when you use the SSDs, they would also nearly give you that kind of performance boost...

The HD 5750 is a short card when compared to the rest of the HD 5xxx series...So it wouldn't be a problem to fit that card into that case...

And thanks for the info on the P6T SE...
Even I would prefer the P6T over the SE version...but the price of the P6T is very high...
Just noticed this...you get the P6T Deluxe V2 cheaper and nearly in the same range as that SE...So no doubt go for that...
http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=478012

Just a suggestion - If you feel that the 80GB wont suffice and you would want a good sized scratch disk, then get this along with that Intel SSD -
Kingston 40GB - Comes with the same internals of that Intel SSD but is yet to support TRIM, which will soon follow...So use this as a dedicated scratch disk...
http://www.komplett.no/k/ki.aspx?sku=518169
December 7, 2009 6:14:38 AM

Thanks to both specialk90 and gkay, again!

I was sure I had seen listed 27" LCD's with 2560x1600, but was obviously wrong... there are none.
30" will be too big...and too expensive. The two 24" (Samsung 245B) I have, is very good, and have to do for now...

I t was very valuable to me to get some input from a photographer (specialk90), and your remarks about scrtachdisk, RAM and video card.
370 megapixel images are not something I work with regulary, but I understand now that a lot of RAM would be very useful to me. But, I think 12 GB will have to do...
I will make sure I pick a case that can accommodate the physical size of the videocard.

I will surely check everything else you both mention.

Please dicuss this build further if you like, but to me it seems that I got all the input I need...? Let call it SOLVED.
December 7, 2009 1:45:01 PM

I suggested 2 X25s in Raid 0 because they lack high write speeds. The most important aspect for scratch disk is being able to write the data to it very quickly. Also, that Kingston 40GB SSD is only 40MB/s write speed and I think only 170MB/s read speed. And the Kingston can't update its firmware with Intel's releases so you are stuck with whatever Kingston releases.

With Intel SSDs, their firmware is already designed to defrag like TRIM.

In US, its only $200 per 4GB ram stick for desktop ram. However, server ECC 4GB is only $125 a piece. To save money, you could go with the Xeon W3520, a Supermicro motherboard and 24GB of ram for less total.
December 8, 2009 1:58:09 AM

^ I dont think that Kingston is a bad one...Check this review...
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1111/5/
Its got the fastest Read speeds of that lot...And more than the write speed, the access time to write matters most, which again is nearly negligible in the SSDs...And my suggestion was to use that SSD as scratch disk not the boot drive(though it would still be good)

But I like the idea of the Workstation setup though... The Xeons are better binned parts than the i7s...
December 16, 2009 2:33:25 PM

In case you wonder, this is what I ended up with:

CPU: Intel Core™ i7 Quad Processor i7-920 4,8GT/sec, 8MB, Boxed, kr 1.836,-
MB: ASUS P6T, X58, Socket-1366 DDR3, ATX, SLI&CrossFireX, Firewire, GbLAN, 3xPCI-Ex(2.0)x16, kr 1.480,-
CASE: Antec P183 Advanced Midi Tower kr 1.076,-
VIDEO CARD: PowerColor Radeon HD 5770 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express 2.0, 2xDVI-I, HDMI, DisplayPort, kr 1.023,-
SSD: Corsair SSD Performance P128 2,5" 128GB SATA2, read/write speed of up to 220MB/200MB sec, MLC, Gen 2, kr 2.236,-
RAM: 2 x Kingston DDR3 HyperX 1333MHz 6GB Kit w/3X HyperX 2GB DDR3, CL7-7-7-20, 240pin, 1.65v, kr 2.400,- (12 GB)
CPU-FAN: Cooler Master Hyper N520 CPU Cooler Support Socket 1366/755, kr 332,-
POWER: Corsair HX 650W PSU ATX 12V V2.2, 80 Plus Bronze, Modular, kr 692,-

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Pro NO OEM, 64bit, kr 1.036,-
CARDREADER: USB2 multikortleser 3.5" , kr 120,-
MOUSE: Logitech Optical Mouse USB, PS/2, kr 79,-

Total: 13.500,- + VAT (2.370 USD)

I will still use my two "old" Samsung 245 24" HD displayes and my two DVD-burners.
Not buying Bluray-burner yet (too expensive media).
Will still use my "old" SATA2 HD's (500+500+250 GB)

I'm looking forward to build and test it this weekend :) 
December 16, 2009 3:03:56 PM

A Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 2TB SATA2 (kr 1.100,-) is also included in the Totalt. Forgot that one.
September 14, 2010 9:24:30 AM

So how do you like now its been working a while & any changers or regrets?
Cheers,
September 14, 2010 4:08:17 PM

alfico1 said:
So how do you like now its been working a while & any changers or regrets?
Cheers,


I'm very pleased. Cant's say I would change anything. I'm especially happy with the SSD! Photoshop CS5 start up in <4 sec. Word takes 0.5 sec to start up... AutoCad 2010 use 10 sec to open my drawingtemplate which contains 90.000 objects. I can pan and zoom in this file without lagging.

Opening a 300 megapixel image takes about 5 sec. Opening a 600 MB PSD-file (photoshop, layered) 2-3 sec.
I have had 15 21megapixel RAW-images open at the same time without any problem.

I'm an extreme multitasker. Somtimes I have 15-20 programs open (including Firefox with 10-20 tabs)

Editing/rendering HD-videos is as smooth and fast as it gets.
I'm no gamer, so I have no reference there.
September 14, 2010 9:00:35 PM

I'm glad to see an SSD has that significant of an impact on your performance.
!