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N00B watercooling advice. Antec 620 vs Corsair H60.

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May 21, 2012 5:29:22 AM

Hello all,

I'm thinking about watercooling my PC but I have never done so before so I'm coming here for some advice.

Since this is my first time, I'm pretty much sold on buying a pre-filled loop from Corsair or Antec.
Currently, I'm running a AMD Phenom II X4 955BE using the stock cooler.
I've been able to set the multiplier to 3.6~3.8GHz which seems to be relatively stable, however, the temps do get quite high under full load (up to ~58C). I would like to get up to 4.0Ghz with lower load temps. Would this be possible with this type of watercooling setup?

The decision I have to make is between the Antec Kuhler 620 or the Corsair H60.
They both seem to be getting the same sort of reviews; and are also similarly priced.
The Antec 620 is presently on sale for $45, Corsair H60 goes for $60...
Would do you think would be a better buy? Do these WC systems go on sale often? Should I wait for a better sale?

I plan to use an additional $7 "Scythe Ultra Kaze 120MM High Static Pressure Fan 38MM 3000RPM 133.6CFM 45.9DBA" (http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=14110AC5417) in a push/pull configuration for optimal performance (noise is not my main concern, but it is a factor). Is this reasonable?

Also, I have heard it is best to draw air from outside the case so I will add in a $3 "Silverstone FF121B 120MM Fan Filter Black" (http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=22170AC8933) at the rear of my case to prevent dust clogging the radiator. Is this a good idea?

Thanks,


a c 190 K Overclocking
May 21, 2012 5:57:48 AM

Filtering intakes is always good, helps keep the case clear of dust so go for it.
I'm not a fan of allinone coolers but if the antec is cheaper then grab one,
allinones can be out-performed by top end aircoolers though so it may be an option instead to consider one of those
or save for real water :) 
Moto
May 21, 2012 2:02:25 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
Filtering intakes is always good, helps keep the case clear of dust so go for it.
I'm not a fan of allinone coolers but if the antec is cheaper then grab one,
allinones can be out-performed by top end aircoolers though so it may be an option instead to consider one of those
or save for real water :) 
Moto


Thanks for the reply, I understand where you are coming from.

The reason I decided to not to go air is because I am using the Corsair Vengeance RAM with the tall heatsinks, and I really do not want to take any risk with the chunky cpu heatsink not fitting. Also, the heatsinks are HEAVY, can't be good for the motherboard right? I was looking at the CM Hyper 212+ Evo, but... we'll have to see.... ah.

And then, watercooling also has it benefits, so I am willing to give it a try. Just that, I'm not experienced enough to even think about making my own custom WC system. ( I don't think it would even be worth it in my system, which is worth only about $600)

Is there any reason to choose one over the other? other than brand-loyalty and price, I mean.
Corsair seems to be more reputable, so is their build quality better?
Antec has some really flexible tubing, is that important?
Related resources
a b K Overclocking
May 21, 2012 2:45:25 PM

you can build a good custom loop for a CPU only, for about $200 today.
Shopping Cart
Item Options Unit Price Qty. In Stock Cost
XSPC RayStorm CPU WaterBlock (Intel) - LGA 2011 Compatible [remove]
• Choose your fittings : No Fittings $49.99
$49.99
Swiftech MCP655-B 12v DC Watercooling Pump w/Tach Sensor [remove]
$69.99
$69.99
Swiftech MCR320-QP Quiet Power 3X120mm Radiator - Matte Black [remove]
• Choose your fittings : No Fittings $46.99
$46.99
Tygon 2375 3/8in. ID 1/2in. OD Ultra Chemical Resistant Tubing # AJK00027 [remove]
$2.35
$23.50
Bitspower G 1/4in. True Brass Fitting for 3/8in. Tubing #BP-TBWP-C02 [remove]
$1.75
$7.00
Arctic Cooling Arctic F8 80x25mm PWM High Performance Case Fan [remove]
$3.99
$11.97
Blue Fan Adapter - 80 to 120mm [remove]
$1.99
$5.97


Subtotal: $215.41
Total: $215.41

it can be done at sidewinder computers for jest over $200 and that is the cheapest that one could be built today. cpu only for this build but with the products that i have chosen you can upgrade later by jest adding to the system on need to replace any of the parts.

Best solution

a c 190 K Overclocking
May 21, 2012 6:55:29 PM
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**Is there any reason to choose one over the other? other than brand-loyalty and price**

I dislike allinone coolers really as I said earlier, so no brand preference lol, but if budget doesn't allow, or you don't want 'Real' water just yet then I wouldn't not help you just because its not my thing, either is as good as the other and the $15 saving is the real deal sealer there for me, less money spent on an allinone is more money in your pocket :) 
and thank you to Toolmaker for the nice shopping list,
for a Cpu only I'd drop the 360 for a 240 Rad, and maybe a cheaper pump/res combo to drop the price further
but it shows that a Waterloop isn't as expensive as you may think
Moto
May 23, 2012 4:09:16 PM

toolmaker_03 said:
you can build a good custom loop for a CPU only, for about $200 today.
Shopping Cart
Item Options Unit Price Qty. In Stock Cost
XSPC RayStorm CPU WaterBlock (Intel) - LGA 2011 Compatible [remove]
• Choose your fittings : No Fittings $49.99
$49.99
Swiftech MCP655-B 12v DC Watercooling Pump w/Tach Sensor [remove]
$69.99
$69.99
Swiftech MCR320-QP Quiet Power 3X120mm Radiator - Matte Black [remove]
• Choose your fittings : No Fittings $46.99
$46.99
Tygon 2375 3/8in. ID 1/2in. OD Ultra Chemical Resistant Tubing # AJK00027 [remove]
$2.35
$23.50
Bitspower G 1/4in. True Brass Fitting for 3/8in. Tubing #BP-TBWP-C02 [remove]
$1.75
$7.00
Arctic Cooling Arctic F8 80x25mm PWM High Performance Case Fan [remove]
$3.99
$11.97
Blue Fan Adapter - 80 to 120mm [remove]
$1.99
$5.97


Subtotal: $215.41
Total: $215.41

it can be done at sidewinder computers for jest over $200 and that is the cheapest that one could be built today. cpu only for this build but with the products that i have chosen you can upgrade later by jest adding to the system on need to replace any of the parts.


Nice list, I'm thinking of making a similar loop or going for one the all-in-one kits... but does this setup not need a reservoir?
a b K Overclocking
May 23, 2012 4:22:35 PM

with a good fill/flush system



a reservoir is not necessary, but I like them in the loop it is nice to have and it can make life easier but they can be expensive. so I did not bother to add one to the list but a good upgrade to the loop.
a c 324 K Overclocking
May 23, 2012 4:40:30 PM

For what you paid in fittings in that photo, you can buy a decent reservoir. My Bitspower Multi-Z was only like $23 when I bought it.
May 23, 2012 4:51:49 PM

toolmaker_03 said:
with a good fill/flush system

a reservoir is not necessary, but I like them in the loop it is nice to have and it can make life easier but they can be expensive. so I did not bother to add one to the list but a good upgrade to the loop.


It looks a bit complicated to bleed tbh.... what about a radiator with a built-in reservoir such as a Swiftech MCR320-Res? Would that be easier to fill/bleed? I believe this model is discontinued but you can still find them if you shop around.

Since the above setup would be semi-sealed is there not a potential problem with negative pressure due to evaporation through the hose, or am I worrying too much?

Thanks for the replies btw.
a b K Overclocking
May 23, 2012 4:59:46 PM

hay, here is how I do a fill system for my builds. http://www.fastfittings.com/plastic-push-in-fittings I use two T's and three shut off valves, you can usually find these at a hardware store. configured in this order T than shout off valve than the second T this should make a straight shot from one end to the other, now where the T's branch off is where the other two shout off valves go. now I usually would attach this right after the pump but any where will work. now you have the ability to force the system to flow throw a make shift reservoir. a 2 liter container or gallon container works well for this purpose. attach hoses about two feet long to the ends of the two shout off valves, and put both of them into the container. you will need to fill the container with distilled water or whatever you use as a liquid coolant. ok so you know the direction of the flow, that is that, one of the hoses is putting water into the container. while the other one would be pulling water out of the container, pull the draw line out of the container. the easiest way I have found to prime a system is to either use a large syringe( not the type with a needle)but used for filling medical nutrition bags, for line feeders, or a squeeze bottle with a end that is large enough to be pushed into the end of the hose to make a tight fit. then start filling your system as much as possible by hand. then when you don't think that you can get any more air out of the system by hand. fill the intake hose as much as possible and shove it back into the container and turn your pump on. it may take a little time to get all of the air out of the system but the pump should be able to handle it from here. once all of the air is out of the system simply turn the intake and outlet valves off and the center valve to the on position remove the fill hoses from the shout off valves and you are done.
a c 324 K Overclocking
May 23, 2012 5:54:01 PM

Quote:
Since the above setup would be semi-sealed is there not a potential problem with negative pressure due to evaporation through the hose, or am I worrying too much?


Just worrying too much.
May 23, 2012 7:16:27 PM

Hey guys I can't find a Swiftech MCP655-B here only the 655 without the B revision (it's a high frequency noise issue, right?), but I can find an Alphacool VPP655-T12 Variable speed which also seems to be a Laing D5 pump (it's cheaper too) any ideas if this one would do instead?
a c 324 K Overclocking
May 23, 2012 7:19:19 PM

It's the same pump.

Swiftech B version is just the non-vario of the MCP665. It runs at about 3.5 to 4 on the normal D5 scale of 1-5 speed control.
May 24, 2012 12:04:09 PM

Ok thanks. How about coolants? Reading the horror stories on the WC sticky thread I want to avoid any proprietary colourant dyes. Is pure distlilled water with a kill coil enough? I'm thinking of some kind of corrosion inhibitor mix, any especial recommendations? I was thinking Swiftech HydrX (it does contain dye though it seems)
a c 324 K Overclocking
May 24, 2012 1:41:55 PM

I've used Hydrx and it works fine. I ran it in my first loop for a few years and never had any issue except staining tubing, which is expected with any coolant that has color. Dyes are safer that other 'coolants' but be aware of how they are made: some are powdered dye and simply mixed with a solvent (distilled, 'special mixture', etc). Even liquid food coloring is something I've used and didn't have any issue. It does stain tubing, just FYI.

Most people just use colored tubing and distilled water with some biocide. Killcoil is debatable of how effective it really is, since copper is also a natural inhibitor (such as how a silver killcoil is sold) and there is far more copper in any given loop in blocks and radiators than there is in that silver strip. I use a killcoil AND biocide and many other guys here do too, so for what it's worth, at least consider a biocide. If you want to ensure non-reaction with loop metals, go with one that isn't based on copper.
a c 190 K Overclocking
May 24, 2012 3:55:19 PM

<Killcoils, distilled and UV cathodes,
Moto
May 24, 2012 5:33:37 PM

rubix_1011 said:
If you want to ensure non-reaction with loop metals, go with one that isn't based on copper.


You mean loop metals based on nickel or aluminium, yes? Copper dies and copper based fluid shouldn't react I would have thought....? Would it also act as a corrosion inhibitor as well do you think?

Also what do you guys think of automotive antifreeze? I've heard silicate additives should be avoided but the non-silicate based fluids contain OAT's and the jurys out on that one too apparently...

cheers

a c 190 K Overclocking
May 24, 2012 5:38:22 PM

I think anti-freeze is overdue its own debate thread as it comes up quite often in posts,
and most of EK's Nickel plating issues were (at least by them) attributed to Copper sulphate in additives,
even now, they have an approved list of what coolant you can use with their blocks without scrapping your warranty
If you want to pursue this further though I'd suggest your own thread, Op may not appreciate his being diverted :) 
*Edit, I missed the aluminium bit rubix, good catch mate
Moto
a c 324 K Overclocking
May 24, 2012 5:40:07 PM

You should never have a loop that has aluminium anywhere in it.

There's no real reason to use automotive antifreeze- the only benefit would be for corrosion inhibitors, but you'd be wasting (or saving) most of it. You only would want to run like a 30% mixture, but even then, why not just get an actual, good corrosion inhibitor fluid for watercooling?
May 24, 2012 10:42:36 PM

rubix_1011 said:
why not just get an actual, good corrosion inhibitor fluid for watercooling?


Indeed... also I believe that it needs changing every 6-8 months at least? I've heard stories of additives, i.e antifreeze and even HydrX turning to gunk in the tubes (globules) and rads but my guess would be thats because it breaks down over time and people don't change as often as they should... which I guess is why veterens recommend just distilled water and a coil...?
a c 324 K Overclocking
May 25, 2012 1:39:08 AM

Quote:
which I guess is why veterens recommend just distilled water and a coil...?


For the most part, yes. That and plain distilled performs the best. I ran my Hydrx for at least 2 years and didn't have any issues and it was fairly well diluted with distilled, but I still broke the loop down for cleaning about once a year...I strained the coolant through a super fine mesh cloth to make sure there wasn't any kind of particulate matter and poured the stuff back in.
May 25, 2012 2:51:41 PM

Ok, I think I've decided to go with plain distilled water and pt Nuke -PHN. All the rads/blocks will be copper and with brass barbs that should keep corrosion to a mininum. Also this version of pt Nuke contains benzalkonium chloride which is used in household disinfectant and medical wipes so that should be the biocidal side covered. It should be used with plain water as it can potentially deactivate on contact with certain materials. Also it doesn't seem to break down into acid unlike unihibited ethylene glycol and it doesn't seem to attack acrylic like methanol (or other alcohols) can (which some people seem to use, or have used).

Cheers guys
May 25, 2012 3:18:31 PM

Best answer selected by rex000.
a c 190 K Overclocking
May 25, 2012 4:32:02 PM

Glad to help man, and Thank you for B.a.
Moto
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