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Help with bios settings for Ga-x58a-ud5

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June 17, 2010 9:34:35 PM

Ive had this build for a few months now and i use it for trading....
Core i7-930 cpu,
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD5 Mobo ,
WD Caviar Black 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s HD ,
WD VelociRaptor 300GB 10K RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s HD ,
Corsair HX 850W Mod PSU ,
Cooler Master HAF 922M Case,
2x nvidia quadro nvs 420's with 8 monitors
Corsair Dominator 6GB DDR3-1600 (PC-12800) CL8 Memory.

I have played with bios settings a few times now and still cant find a template im comfortable with. I was wondering if anyone has any settings they find to be suitable with this mobo. I havent overclocked manually at all yet and wasnt even sure if i should while trading. Originally i had the pc running blazing fast , but now with the installation of all my software i feel like im running as fast as my last Dell. I assumed this build would be a real workhorse and I havent seen it yet. I was also wondering if i would be better off buying a separate network card, up till now ive been using the built in Lan ports on the mobo. I only ask because ive read at a few sites that the built in lan sucks. Sometimes when the markets get real busy i seem to lag or lock up. I find it hard to believe that it could be the computer itself, unless my bios is the culprit . I do however keep alot of charts open.

More about : bios settings x58a ud5

June 18, 2010 12:27:00 AM

I find it hard to believe that your trading would overload the network card. I think you should check you modem/router/wireless (if any) first. I would uncheck "Allow this device to be turned off to save the world 0.3 milliwatt of power" on the network card properties page.

In BIOS, there is a setting "Green Lan", turn it off.

Other than this, it's kind of hard to check in your situation, less having another 8 screen system to compare with. I would also check your connection for bandwidth and latency, there are utilities for that. Try to run the test while you're trading. Also, try to run 2 displays on each card, see if that makes difference. Check your security apps by turning them off (AV and FW).

My feeling is that the network load of trading apps is very low to moderate. Latency is important in your case. In general, if your lan is misconfigured, in the way that there are ip conflicts, closed ports, collisions, things that would slow down throughput, then you'd see traffic jam when heavily trading. Increase number of tcp/ip connections (there is a hack for that). Make sure your router is forwarding ports correctly if there are other devices on lan.
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a c 177 V Motherboard
June 18, 2010 2:24:02 AM

Even with a T3, your carrier cannot exceed the LAN chip's throughput - my first suspect would be 'bandwidth throttling' by your carrier. I use Time Warner, and I know for a fact they do it... They want me to pay 'em an extra monthly fee for higher bandwidth, but crank down whenever I try to use more than a tenth of what I pay 'em for now! I'll try to look into what they do with your sort of traffic, in general - most of mine is multi-link, and I find I can usually 'sneak by' with encryption. The LAN chips are on the SB PCIe bus, and one lane supports 500MB/s... If you are on a wireless LAN, definitely go to a 'wired end-to-end' connection.

Best piece of software I know of for 'fine-tuning' is TCP Optimizer, and there is a pretty thorough WIKI for its use here at SpeedGuid.net...

Quote:
I assumed this build would be a real workhorse and I havent seen it yet.

...sounds like a perfect example of Wirth's Law: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster." [:isamuelson:8]

You might benefit from more RAM - I use eight, and still hit the swap file way too often. I assume you have your system and programs on the VR, and data on the Black? Where do you have 'em hooked up? The best spot, for that config, is to put the VR on SATA2_0, and the Black on SATA2_4, and run 'em 'straight' - no AHCI. The ICH is by far the fastest controller on the board, and if you put an ICH in standard mode, no AHCI or RAID, it presents itself as two physical controllers to the system - first one does channel 0-3, second one channels 4&5 - so you can 'hit 'em simultaneously'... In AHCI or RAID, it's one, six-channel controller. I get roughly 200 M/S throughput from an ICH9, but I have two pair of VRs in RAID0s - alternating system and swap partitions, so the system and swap are always on 'opposite' arrays. Another little bit of optimization can be had from 'short stroking' the VRs; I use only about the first two-thirds of each array, as the speed falls off rapidly 'toward the end'; if you only partition the 'front-end' of the drive, you get the best throughput available.

As for the board setup itself, need to know what you've got for CPU cooling, and RAM mfr & p/n - I'd definitely overclock - Intels are wasted at stock settings - those things'll run 4GHz w/o breaking a sweat. A fairly mild OC will not have any effect on reliability or longevity, just have to keep it reasonable...


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June 18, 2010 8:22:43 PM

devt333 said:
I find it hard to believe that your trading would overload the network card. I think you should check you modem/router/wireless (if any) first. I would uncheck "Allow this device to be turned off to save the world 0.3 milliwatt of power" on the network card properties page.

In BIOS, there is a setting "Green Lan", turn it off.

Other than this, it's kind of hard to check in your situation, less having another 8 screen system to compare with. I would also check your connection for bandwidth and latency, there are utilities for that. Try to run the test while you're trading. Also, try to run 2 displays on each card, see if that makes difference. Check your security apps by turning them off (AV and FW).

My feeling is that the network load of trading apps is very low to moderate. Latency is important in your case. In general, if your lan is misconfigured, in the way that there are ip conflicts, closed ports, collisions, things that would slow down throughput, then you'd see traffic jam when heavily trading. Increase number of tcp/ip connections (there is a hack for that). Make sure your router is forwarding ports correctly if there are other devices on lan.


I already had that unchecked and i also have green lan off in bios. On monday ill try and work without all the monitors and see if there is any difference. Is there any utility you would recommend for checking bandwidth and latency, or is TCP Optimizer that bilbat mentioned what i need. Also, how could i troubleshoot for ip conflicts, closed ports, collisions, and things that would slow down throughput like you mentioned above? Im also curious about the hack you mentioned for increasing tcp/ip connections. How would i accomplish that? And what does that do exactly?
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June 18, 2010 8:27:36 PM

bilbat said:
Even with a T3, your carrier cannot exceed the LAN chip's throughput - my first suspect would be 'bandwidth throttling' by your carrier. I use Time Warner, and I know for a fact they do it... They want me to pay 'em an extra monthly fee for higher bandwidth, but crank down whenever I try to use more than a tenth of what I pay 'em for now! I'll try to look into what they do with your sort of traffic, in general - most of mine is multi-link, and I find I can usually 'sneak by' with encryption. The LAN chips are on the SB PCIe bus, and one lane supports 500MB/s... If you are on a wireless LAN, definitely go to a 'wired end-to-end' connection.

Best piece of software I know of for 'fine-tuning' is TCP Optimizer, and there is a pretty thorough WIKI for its use here at SpeedGuid.net...

Quote:
I assumed this build would be a real workhorse and I havent seen it yet.

...sounds like a perfect example of Wirth's Law: "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster." [:isamuelson:8]

You might benefit from more RAM - I use eight, and still hit the swap file way too often. I assume you have your system and programs on the VR, and data on the Black? Where do you have 'em hooked up? The best spot, for that config, is to put the VR on SATA2_0, and the Black on SATA2_4, and run 'em 'straight' - no AHCI. The ICH is by far the fastest controller on the board, and if you put an ICH in standard mode, no AHCI or RAID, it presents itself as two physical controllers to the system - first one does channel 0-3, second one channels 4&5 - so you can 'hit 'em simultaneously'... In AHCI or RAID, it's one, six-channel controller. I get roughly 200 M/S throughput from an ICH9, but I have two pair of VRs in RAID0s - alternating system and swap partitions, so the system and swap are always on 'opposite' arrays. Another little bit of optimization can be had from 'short stroking' the VRs; I use only about the first two-thirds of each array, as the speed falls off rapidly 'toward the end'; if you only partition the 'front-end' of the drive, you get the best throughput available.

As for the board setup itself, need to know what you've got for CPU cooling, and RAM mfr & p/n - I'd definitely overclock - Intels are wasted at stock settings - those things'll run 4GHz w/o breaking a sweat. A fairly mild OC will not have any effect on reliability or longevity, just have to keep it reasonable...


I use optimum online now with there Boost package. Im not sure if they implement any 'bandwidth throttling. Also, what do u mean when u said that you find you can usually 'sneak by' with encryption?

i might buy another 6 gb memory kit, but whenever i check my task manager im usually using around 36% of my physical memory so i didnt think it was lack of memory. Yes i am using the VR for programs and the black for data. Ill check those connections later, but im pretty sure thats how i have it set up and i know im not using AHCI or Raid. Not sure what u mean by 'short stroking' the VR either.

Also, im using the cpu fan that came with my CPU and the 3 case fans that came with my HAF922. Nothing extra installed. Ram is Corsair Dominator 6GB DDR3-1600 CL8 p/n-TR3X6G1600C8D. Ive never overclocked before. Im going to have to do some research over the weekend. I noticed in bios that there is an extreme memory profile setting and a performance enhance setting. Would changing either of those settings be a workaround to O.C.ing.
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a c 177 V Motherboard
June 19, 2010 2:10:24 AM

Quote:
Also, what do u mean when u said that you find you can usually 'sneak by' with encryption?

Most of the time I'm 'hogging' bandwidth, it's to torrent files back & forth - usually on the order of a gig or three; if roadrunner 'sees' the multi-connect for simultaneous fast links, they throttle... If I encrypt the data going out, they never 'see' the data coming in - just looks like someone with three dozen web pages loading...

As I said, don't know much about trading data streams - but need to learn! Have in mind to do some 'trading stations'; think I can do real-time BlackÔÇôScholes machines for between 12 & 15 grand - depending upon options, and without the monitor array - "semi-supercomputer": GB UD9 w/6-core i7, 24G RAM, nVidia NF200 to run OpenCL on three 2G 5870's, one of them will handle six monitors, the rest just 'crunch', Areca 1680iX RAID card w/four SSDs in RAID0, and six 2G RE4's in RAID6 for 8G backed-up storage; "pretty much a supercomputer": same physical setup with Tyan 7025 MOBO & dual-6-core Xeons, dual IOH, for full four slot PCIeX16 access to the 'crunchers'. Was thinking about nVidia Fermis, but you'd need a small nuclear power station to run the things, and the vidcard versions only do two monitor each - too limiting.

Short stroking:
Here's a picture of some 'drive guts' - with a ruler layed on top

...the little 'arm' carries the actual record/read heads, and it is 'driven in and out', from track to track, by a geared stepper motor. There are two physical aspects to accessing data: 1, the time it takes for the little arm to 'stroke' from where it's at, to where it needs to be, and 2, the speed of the magnetic material on the platter it's reading. In the picture, for guesstimates, you can see that the data tracks start at about three-quarters of an inch out on the platter, and end at about an inch and three quarters; the thing spins at a constant speed (10,000RPM in the case of a VR), so you can 'intuit' that, if the heads are at the outer edge of the platter, a lot more 'stuff' is flying under them, than when they are in toward the center - 1.75/.75, or about 230% more! If you simply don't partition the inner portion of the drive, a - the heads never have to make a full stroke, which cuts access time; and b, the data is restricted to the faster, outer area... Here's a graph of my data partition (on a pair of RAID1 WD RE3's, using the whole drives):

The left side of the graph is the 'outer edge' of the platters; because of the way the data is 'staggered' onto the drive, the effect is nowhere near the 230%, but you can see there is a two to one ratio, roughly, of difference between the two extremes... So, in its simplest form, short-stroking is simply partitioning only as much of the drive as you really need, and leaving the rest empty, to cut down on access time, and speed up transfer. I actually use a bit more sophisticated system, as I multi-boot a lot of OS's; my boot manager writes a master boot record to the drive every time I boot, which 'rearranges and makes visible/invisible' different partions each time - but the effect is the same - for my system and swap partitions, only a fraction of my drives are partitioned...


Your RAM is most likely running at 1333. RAM has a sort of little 'spreadsheet' chip on it, called an SPD, that contains the timing parameters to allow the board to automatically set it up - but the three standard 'columns' in the DDR3 'spreadsheet' are for 800, 1066, and 1333 speeds. Most faster RAM, yours included, contains another 'extended' data set, called either an XMP (Intel's standard - yours is XMP) or EPP (AMD/nVidia/Corsair standard) which allows a function in the BIOS to set up that faster speed... Yours will run considerably faster - the standard 1333 timings are 9-9-9-24, the XMP is 8-8-8-24 - roughly 20% faster. Wouldn't worry too much about it though, iCores are not very responsive to raw memory speed - never hurts, but not really noticeable in average use - YMMV!

Overclocking is easy, just don't want to go nuts. Most every Intel chip will do 20-25% over rated speed with very small increments of voltage increase, which, in the long run, is what kills chips. I do parameter sets for folks here, and never do anything that I think will have any even slight chance of reducing either the reliability, or long-term durability. The only caveat, is that I always recommend some (any) aftermarket CPU cooling. People go nuts with the cooling thing, buy stuff that's way too expensive, when the fact is - even the cheapest aftermarket will have at the very least, two to three times the heat moving ability if the stock Intel 'rotary postage stamps'! I often recommend these, as they're reasonable, solid, and will fit nearly anything:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
but am doing a build next week for someone using one of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
to take a 3.2 i5-650 Clarkdale to at least 3.8, and likely 4.0GHz, assuming the thermals and memory interface look good (the Clarkdales are a little slow in the memory controller dept., as the controller itself is on a seperate 45nm graphics die from the main 32nm processor die...)

If you'd like a bit more info on the SPD thing, I'm working on a new sticky here: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274400-30-memory-part...








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June 21, 2010 4:50:09 PM

TCP\IP Connection Limit:
It was decided to castrate all versions of windows to 10 simultaneous connections. As far as I know, this started with WXPSP2, and is still in effect on W7. Microsoft doesn't want fast virus propagation due to poor design of it's OSes to affect their revenues. They have decided that instead of "doing it right" they would have us (the customers) to pay the price by limiting our "speeds", or more precisely the number of things we can do at the same time (sounds like your scenario). The effect would be that the virus propagation time would fall exponentially at our cost and not at Microsoft (who is the prime responsible party).

Reads:
XP: http://www.lvllord.de/?url=tools
W7:http://www.sevenforums.com/network-sharing/6045-windows...

(What I am not sure about is that if a trading system tries to open many connections, or not)

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a c 177 V Motherboard
June 21, 2010 5:09:09 PM

The utility file I pointed out, TCP-Optimizer, will 'balance' this setting automatically, based on 'what's available' from your provider, or allow you to set it manually...
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June 21, 2010 6:12:10 PM

You mean TCP/IP max conn limit setting, bilbat? I think you need to replace tcpip.sys or patch it, there is no registry string for this.
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a c 177 V Motherboard
June 21, 2010 6:25:06 PM

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters\TcpNumConnections
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June 21, 2010 7:19:04 PM

This does work on 7? Didn't do it for me on XPproSP2, I was still receiving Event 4226 errors. I think this reg setting is down flow from the main control, which is closed.
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a c 177 V Motherboard
June 21, 2010 7:55:58 PM

Don't believe it existed (or functioned, maybe) 'till after RC versions of seven...

...don't know if it's actually doing anything though. have to 'poke at it' a bit, sometime when torrenting - most of my d/ls come from TechNet, where you're only allowed, I think, four connections...
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June 21, 2010 8:22:41 PM

I was getting that error when trying to max out my torrent app. I don't think other apps are even hitting 10, so most of the time it is useless. On this trading setup, however, it just might be that the app is trying to open more than ten connections.
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a c 177 V Motherboard
June 21, 2010 9:04:28 PM

Ya know? Now, I'm pretty befuddled. I tried installing TCP Optimizer on an 'untweaked' seven installation (only my 'working copy' gets 'fiddled with'):

and it did not put in that registry entry! As I tried about four different programs to accomplish this tuning before I stumbled onto 'Optimizer, and took the expedient of erasing the 'dogs' when I did discover it, and got good (noticeable) results - I'm left without evan a slight clue as to:
who did it...
what it does...
if it actually does anything...
[:fixitbil:9]
...and, of course, it's something so minor, that (stupidly) I never recorded in the 'system log' I keep for exactly this purpose - finding out, after the fact, "who broke what!?!"

All in all, serves as a reminder, I'm rapidly approaching the point where I need to do a fresh install of my 'working' system! The last 'indicator' was that I installed Intellimouse, having wondered why I couldn't 'assign' my mouse buttons (when all I really wanted was to change the middle-click item - defaults for everything else are fine!), then after I put it in, went back in the log, and discovered the reason it wasn't in, was that it 'breaks' the cursor in MediaCenter! Dammit - so now I'm relying on a 'work-around', as I already know that uninstalling it doesn't fix the problem :cry: 
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June 21, 2010 9:31:34 PM

take it easy there, bro, don't break it all apart, we need you here bilbat
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a c 177 V Motherboard
June 21, 2010 10:11:39 PM

Ahh, no chance for a while! Have a 'to build' coming in (was actually surprised I didn't hear about parts delivery today - we 'NewEgged it' last Monday...), that I expect to be a test-bed for a new 'getting around the shortcomings of XMP' piece for Part IV of http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274598-30-memory-want..." target="_blank">"Memory - more than you wanted to know!"; can't down my system now - she'll already be ticked that this is going to take an extra week added onto my usual 'a week to ten days' build time! Ordered up some (probably too fast) 7-8-7-24 1600 to check out what can and can't be done with Clarkdales, as well - planning to have an 'interesting' few days! Guy who 'brokers' them said he wanted to 'sit in' and learn how I do systems from scratch - told him he'd best be set to lounge around for three or four days while I alternate 'fussing with' the BIOS, taking notes, and running MemTest, like two-hundred times! [:bilbat:9]
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