$700 3D & Graphics Machine

dAttitude

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Well guys, i am absolutely new to Tom's Hardware and trust me, i have been through this ONE Website The whole day today (at least 10hrs ... ;) )! I am a Graphics Designer and a 3D Artist and yeah, Occasional Gamer ;) (mainly into racing games and occasionally into RPG like Max Payne II and GTA VC types, though havent played in a long time so dont know of the new titles.)

My problem is that i have a very limited budget, and i live in India where not everything is cheap (at least in terms of technology and gadgets.) so a lot of components which you guys get at a cheaper cost, it sometimes gets almost 1/3rd price increase in India and even double the price sometimes.

thats why i am really concerned about how to go about the build. anywhich ways, i have been through the local market here and have found a few options which i would like to share. and would expect the experts here to guide me through. (price WILL be a constrain .. heheh, though i would love the highest of i7, i really can not afford the same, unless there is a balanced match of mobo & processor)

i have got 2 configurations which i would wanna share with you, once done so, you all can tell me what to do.

Intel Based Machine
Intel i5 - 750 (2.66 GHz Turbo Boost To 3.2 GHz, 8MB Cache)
Asus P7P55D Pro
Corsair XMS3 2GB DDR3 1333 x 2
Palit GeForce® GTS 250 512MB
Cooler Master Gladiator 600
Cooler Master eXtreme PowerPlus 650 W
Cooler Master Hyper N520

AMD Based Machine
Phenom X4 Quad 965 BE
ASUS Crosshair III Formula
Corsair XTREME PERFORMANCE DDR3 XMS3 RAM 1333 C9 (4 GB)
ATI HD4850 1GB Palit
Cooler Master Gladiator 600
Corsair VX 550W
Cooler Master Hyper N520

I will be using My Bravia 32" as monitor (i wanted to know a bit more about HDMI but may be later in the posts ... right now the main focus is getting the rig done!). i am looking for a good keyboard mouse combo (not too expensive and NOT wireless. takes up too much battery. i already have one wireless from logitech the most basic series) ve got HDD of seagate .. i am not willing to buy 10k RPM HDD right now (its way too expensive here right now)


one more thing i wanted to know is the performance of Palit ATI HD5750 in comparison with the above mentioned cards as it seems to be a little affordable (depends on all of you guy's reviews to be honest, i can give it a thought if you guys suggest so.). 4890 is again $280 here ... not affordable, though i found it surprising that Palit ATI HD5750 is just about $200 / $210 here ....

Now the confusion is that should i go for i5 or should i go for 965BE. though, to be honest, both of these configuration are over the budget of $700 (INR 35,000). the first rig is about INR 45,000 ($900 appx) and the second one is about INR 53,000 ($1100 appx)

i have been using AMD for about 5 years now, and i have always been a fan because of good performance and cheaper price, though i still believe in AMD, this time i wanna give a chance to Intel (with their i5 ONLY and not with the Q series processors.)

The main expense is coming up on the board as both the board which i have mentioned above are higher end (it comes in the higher class in India as not a lot of boards like Maximus and Rampage etc are yet available in the local market) (i may find them in specialty shops, but whats the point? i will end up paying at least 50% more there .. i would rather go with whats available in the local market and make the rig as powerful as possible!)

another concern is Power Supply, as i do understand that its an important aspect, i dont understand the need of "How Much Watts?". if i go lower, it will be better for me in terms of money, but is it safe?

CPU Coolers, only Cooler Master is what i could find on my first visit, if anyone is aware of availability of any other good brand in Mumbai, i would not mind considering that as an option.

for AMD i found this board Crosshair, but as it turns out, its quite a highend board and it comes at about $300 here, which is quite expensive as thats almost half the price of the entire rig budget that i am looking at.

if you can suggest me a solid board like Crosshair III, it will help a lot.

Please suggest what should be done. my old comp is giving problems and my projects are on halt. i am willing to finish this up by Wednesday MAX.

Thanks for all your help. (this site is amazing. a lot of information and help, just one thing missing (for me) was the Indian market awareness on the site, but thats just me .. heheheh)

sorry for so much of text. just wanted to make sure that you guys understand the scenario difference from there to here.
:) thanks for reading.

Thanks a lot
dAttitude
 
Solution

The i5 is quite good. It will handle your games and 3D applications very nicely.

During the Pentium 4 days, AMD had the innovation lead but since Intel released the Core 2 Duo in 2006, they've been a step or two ahead of AMD in innovation.

TheViper

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It's tough to recommend parts without knowing if they are available in your area. So I'll write up a parts list and you tell me which ones are not available in your are (or cost too much) and I'll then suggest alternatives. We'll try for an i5 system.

CPU:
Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz - $199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

Motherboard:
Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3 LGA 1156 - $134.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128412

RAM:
Corsair XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 - $94.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145260

Case:
Cooler Master Elite 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP - $49.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119161

Power Supply:
Corsair CMPSU-550VX 550W - $69.99 after rebate ($89.99 before rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004

Graphics card:
Sapphire HD 5750 - $144.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102859

Total - $694.94 after rebates ($714.94 before rebates)
 

cory1234

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Fanboy much?? AMD Phenom II's will perfom very nicely if your on a budget. The quad cores will hit 4.0ghz and are formidable for their price. The 955 is better than the 965 imo because they both reach the same final overclock, and I have seen 955's reacher higher overclocks than the 965.
 
Ouch the reason your costs are spiralling is because your selected h/w is over priced for your needs! For example why on earth would u go 790FX highest end chipset if $$ is an object hehe

$611/576AR - no one said non BEs can't clock :p
kvcd.jpg


 

abhishekshukla1989

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hello i am from india too and i recently upgraded my pc to core i5 based rig.
i would suggest you go for msi p55 gd65 mobo its very nice and with all the features plus about 9.2k.
go with an ati 4870 you can get it for 9-9.5k. or increase your budget more and get a 5770 at least.
also yaar don't go with cooler master extreme psu as it is not rated 80+ efficient and known for problems.your much better of with corsair 550vx.and please get a 4gb ram if corsair is to pricey go with gskill 4gb ddr3 kit for 6k.
 

dAttitude

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Alright Guys,
thanks to you all for your replies and each and every one of them is as useful as the other. just to share with you something great, (Indians, keep an eye on this guys, if your in Mumbai, its great for all of us!)i came across a dealer's website which consists of a lot of things which are hard to find it a local market.

http://www.theitwares.com/

he has almost everything thats needed for me to build my rig. so now i will go and build a couple of new configs (both AMD & Intel) and you guys can have a look at the same and see if you can suggest me anything that interests you.

the prices are mostly the cheapest in the local market. may be a few bucks here n there but overall it will turn out to be the most affordable of all the dealers i have met. so you guys can feel free to suggest me a config out of this website (though i will be putting up my config in a couple of hours ... but still it will be great to know from the experts. :))

alright, i have also increased my budget from INR 35,000 to INR 42,000 but PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS MAX ... i will only have 1 Rs in my pocket (inclusive of my reserves and back accounts) after this rig ... hahahahahha

anyways i will be back soon with my config, till than thanks a lot for all your help and yeah i will also answer all the posts above one by one after i finish my research on the above mentioned site. :) please excuse me till than.

thank you ...
dAtti .....

P.S. n yeah one more thing, i already spoke to the concerned person and he said that he has mostly everything in stock and he will be able to deliver within 2 days MAX.
 

dAttitude

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Alright Guys,
here are 4 Revised rig Config which i think will be the best at the budget we are looking at ...
please rate the same and also make as many modifications as required and give me the final rig config which i can go out and purchase. i need this on Tuesday so if you can please hurry up and if we can finish this off, it will be a great relief for me.

Actual Budget: INR 42,000
Average Config Budget after Survey: INR 45,000

Lets Begin ... :D

Intel Based Revised Config 1

Processor: Intel i5 - 750 (2.66 GHz Turbo Boost To 3.2 GHz, 8MB Cache) - INR 8,700
Motherboard: Asus P7P55D - INR 9,500
RAM: Corsair TW3X4G-1333C9DHX (2 X 2GB DDR3 1333MhZ) - INR 8,750
GPU: Palit ATI HD5750 - INR 9,500
Cabinet: Thermaltake Strike MX (VI6001BNS) - INR 3,800
PSU: Cooler Master eXtreme Power 600 W (RP-600-PCAR) - INR 3,500
Cooling System: OCZ Vendetta 2 - INR 2,550

Total: INR 46,300


AMD Based Revised Config 2

Processor: AMD Phenom™ II X4 965 CPU Black Edition - INR 9,200
Motherboard: Gigabyte 790FXTA-UD5P - INR 11,200
RAM: Corsair TW3X4G-1333C9DHX (2 X 2GB DDR3 1333MhZ) - INR 8,750
GPU: Sapphire HD 4850 1GB DDR3 HDMI - INR 7,975 (i am not sure of the Sapphire Card Quality, so please tell me on the same.)
Cabinet: Thermaltake Strike MX (VI6001BNS) - INR 3,800
PSU: Cooler Master eXtreme Power 600 W (RP-600-PCAR) - INR 3,500
Cooling System: OCZ Vanquisher (For AMD) - INR 1,250

Total: INR 45,675


AMD Based Revised Ambitious Config 3

Processor: i7 920 2.66GHz (8MB L3 Cache) - INR 15,000
Motherboard: MSI X58 PRO - E Intel® X58 Chipset FOR i7 - INR 12,000
(i am not sure of MSI being the right choice for i7 Processors but i would urge you guys to see if we can work with i7 config and reach the best possible (lowest with the best possible config) rates!)
RAM: Corsair TW3X4G-1333C9 (2 X 2GB DDR3 1333MhZ) - INR 6,050
GPU: Power Color HD 4850 AX4850 512MD3-PH (512 MB) - INR 6,750
Cabinet: Zebronics Antibiotics (Black) - INR 2,250
PSU: Cooler Master eXtreme Power 600 W (RP-600-PCAR) - INR 3,500
(abhishek suggested not to go with this one as they are not rated well, but abhishek, i am not sure of any other PSU's quality in this range. corsair is good but expensive and i can only get vx450 in this cost and i am not sure if thats ok.)
Cooling System NONE (this is a deliberate decision as i expect intel to give a good heatsink with i7 at least. also it reduces about $50 in the whole cost. but still i will always await your suggestions guys.)

Total: INR 45,550


AMD Based Revised Ambitious Config 4

Processor: Phenom X4 Quad 965 BE - INR 9100
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-MA790FXT-UD5P (AMD 790FX + SB750 Chipset) - INR 12,200
RAM: Corsair XTREME PERFORMANCE DDR3 XMS3 RAM 1333 C9 (6 GB) - INR 10,200
GPU: ATI HD4850 1GB XFX/Palit/Power Color - INR 7750
Cabinet: Thermaltake Wing RS 201 - INR 2100
PSU: Corsair VX 450W - INR 3950 (I hope this is good for this rig)

Total: INR 45,450


Note1: can I chuck the graphics option? Can i currently work with my XFX 7300GT or an on board card? if above configuration sounds too good. I think i can compromise on GPU for a while (a couple of quarters may be?) ... or same goes for the above i7 Ambitious Built

Note2: There are 2 things i am super confused about in terms of choosing the right one (or rather knowing the right one) 1. Motherboard as i like to pick up the best of the best and i am never enough with money :) 2. i can ever understand the importance of a PSU and cant choose the right one. i know it sounds too novice to be dealing with the home built and not believe in somthing this important as PSU. but you see, i have had a configuration as below for last 3.5 years,

Processor: AMD Athlon 2200+
MoBo: Asus A8N - E
RAM: 4GB DDR1 400 MHz
HDD: 6 HDD (totaling to 2 TB appx) (its been 3.5 years and i only added this into my config from 300GB to 2TB .. i know i know its stupid but anyways its there now....)
GPU: XFX 7300GT 256 dedicated (i must have bought this one about 2 - 2.5 years back)
OD: DVD Writer Sony
Kb/M: Logitec Wireless Desktop 1100 or something .. the most basic W/L model.
PSU: generic 400w iBall PSU with iBall cabinet (MAC lookalike ;)) dont remember the model number right now.

with the above configuration in place and rigorous utilization and handling with open case at least 6months a year and no air conditioning (in India, Mumbai. average temp: 28C/30C) constant tempering with HDD & RAM and addition and removal of a few elements every now n than, i think that i have sued my rig to its extreme and still its holding onto me. ;) so as i was mentioning before, in these adverse situations if a 400w regular PSU can stand and not give me any problems in general (though i think now it is giving up and whatever the problems are, are because of PSU ... but thats a different topic i will put up in a different forum.), i guess cooler master 600w Extreme should not be a problem. (though i am definitely worried about the ratings as if its not efficient, i may be paying a lot more for electricity!) so guys please let me know as to what should i do on PSU Front.

With Motherboard, i want to choose the best one, but i would leave it onto you guys to suggest me the right build and yeah one more thing, I AM NEVER USING A CROSSFIRE or SLI EVER. (dont have the money and dont have the craze about the games so much. though i love to play a few RPGs and a race genre, i guess all racing genre will work more or less good enough with this above setups ... i wont need a dual GPU set up.) So recommend me the best in class for non crossfire or SLI mobo (if possible, if not, tell me which one to go for with the above config/processor.)


Thank You so much for ALL your Help.
dAtti ...
 

TheViper

Distinguished
Use this one: Intel Based Revised Config 1.
Change PSU to the Corsair: PSU: Corsair VX 450W - INR 3950.

I would consider that to be the best overall configuration.

Note 1: Not if you intend to do 3D graphics. The 7300GT doesn't have enough power and integrated graphics are good for web browsing and email and that's about it.

Note 2: Gigabyte and ASUS are the best of the best for motherboards. Their features, reliability and stability are unsurpassed. They cost more but they are worth it. Top PSU brands are Corsair, PC Power & Cooling and Seasonic (technically all 3 are mostly made by Seasonic). Their efficiency, 12v rails, reliability and 5+ year warranty stop above all others. The PSU should be considered THE most important component in your computer. A bad PSU can kill your whole system. It's the heart.

Efficiency is just one problem with some PSU's. Others may have a lot of watts but not enough on the 12v rails which power the graphics card. Some may have good efficiency but poor build quality or protection schemes (overvoltage, undervoltage, etc...) and crap out quickly possibly taking other parts with it.

I almost never suggest Crossfire or SLI to anyone unless they intend to game a lot on a large monitor. For the average consumer if they need more graphical power, simply replace the one you have with a better one. Crossfire and SLI have a lot of drawbacks such as requiring a supporting motherboard, 2 PCI-e x16 lanes, more power, more PCI-e power connectors, more heat produced and many games do not scale well with 2 graphic cards.



 

dAttitude

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hey Viper, thanks a lot for you quick reply. i also guess i wanted to go with intel this time. but you suggesting i5 over 965 BE? is i5 that good?

i have always thought that intel is the one who is falling behind and AMD is the one to come up with innovations.

Just a Question though, you didnt consider my Ambitious i7 Config 3 for the reason of motherboard or in general overall feeling for the same is not very good?

i have found a couple of boards which fits the budget, so have a look please and tell me if it makes sense to dream about that i7 or not ... heheh

i7 Motherboard
Intel DX58SO (X58) - INR 14,100
Intel WX58BP - INR 10,500
Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R - INR 14,500


Thanks a Lot, in a little rush right now, will comment a lil later .....
dAtti ...
 

dAttitude

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just a little note though, the local vendors here are not very helpful and service oriented and not even educated many times to suggest you the right hardware combination.

once i become an expert(god knows how many AGES i will need for that), i would love to start consulting here in India ... hahahah ;) probably you guys can join in as a virtual consultants (oopss ... did i just give out my Ultimate Business Idea???)

hehehhe ...
but honestly, i would love to provide such service to Indian Crowd. ;)
 

TheViper

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The i5 is quite good. It will handle your games and 3D applications very nicely.

During the Pentium 4 days, AMD had the innovation lead but since Intel released the Core 2 Duo in 2006, they've been a step or two ahead of AMD in innovation.


The motherboard, graphics card and PSU were keeping me from selecting the i7 configuration.

I do like the Gigabyte option you listed.

If I could make those changes to the i7 configuration (Gigabyte motherboard, Cosair PSU, HD 5750 graphics card) the total would be INR 49,725. And that's too high.

By using the i5 system, you can just replace the PSU and the total becomes INR 46,750.

If you can manage INR 49,725, go for it but you wont' be disappointed with the i5 configuration either.


Sounds like a plan. And with India's growth in IT and new products, there should be a nice market for such an idea.
 
Solution

dAttitude

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Alright Guys,

Thank You so very much for all your help and support. Viper, Thanks so much man, though i was so much inclined towards i7, the actual market price at the time of purchase was way too high and i had to settle for i5 also, i couldnt find a board which was actually suggested with i5 from Asus, i had to pick up the board which i could find at that time and as i had done a bit of research on the same i think its a good board (though i am sure you guys will tell me how it is and did i take the right decision or not.)

so the final configuration of the Machine is
- Intel i5 750 2.66 GHz Processor
- Cooler Master TX 300/360 CPU Cooling System
- Gigabyte P55-UD3R Motherboard
- Corsair VX450W Power Supply Unit
- XFX ATI Radeon HD5750 1GB DDR5 GPU
- GSkill RipJaws 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600 MHz
- Cooler Master Elite 310 Cabinet
- Samsung 160GB 7200 RPM HDD (Old HDD which i already had, will buy the WD Black or Green a little later, running on a shoestring finances these days ;) )
- Old Microsoft Keyboard & Mouse Set
- Old DVD Writer
- Old Sony Bravia 32" D Series (only 1360 x 768 resolution, is there anyway to update the firmware and increase the resolution ???? hehehhe just taking a chance;))
- 5.14 Creative Speaker System (i wanna buy a decent sound system later ... but for now i am quite happy with this one. i will keep the budget of about $100 or may be $120 for the sound system a little later, any suggestions on that???)

so yeah, i have finished building the Box and i am ready to rumble ... heheh
sorry for the delay in reply guys, was trying to get things in order and installation n etc ...

but now that i have got the system running with a Microsoft windows7 beta [testing versions which were released by MS, so i am not sure if everything works properly on it or not but i have been using it for a while now and there were only few BSoD, but i figured that it was because of my hardware mainly not Windows!]

so here are a few pictures of the system built (i am damn sure i have made some stupid mistake with CPU cooling, but if you can tell me what i can do and whether its right or wrong how i have installed it, that will be great guys.)

The Motherboard at the shop while buying ... Curtain Raiser!
192.jpg


The Motherboard at the shop while buying ... Curtain Raiser!
193.jpg


The Motherboard at the shop while buying ... Curtain Raiser!
195.jpg


The Power Supply: Corsair VX450W ... Curtain Raiser!
197.jpg


The Power Supply: Corsair VX450W Clean and BLACK ... Curtain Raiser!
198.jpg


The CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper TX3 ... Curtain Raiser!
199.jpg


The CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper TX3 ... Curtain Raiser!
200.jpg


The CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper TX3 ... Curtain Raiser!
202.jpg


The Memory: GSkill RipJaws 4GB DDR3 1600MHz Pack ... Curtain Raiser!
203.jpg


THE MACHINE
The Machine ... First Glance
206.jpg


The Machine ... First Glance
207.jpg


The Machine ... Closer Look
208.jpg

NOTE: I am sure you would notice the absolute wrong placement of the CPU Cooler (i think its absolutely wrong as the air is being pushed/Pulled out directly onto the back of the card) but i dont know how to place it anywhere else as if you turn it anticlockwise than it will reside over the memory slots and there is no place on the other side ... i guess this one thing has been chosen wrongly (i would partly blame the dealer and partly to the motherboard make Gigabyte... Seller because he gave me this one instead of the earlier decided Hyper N520 and Gigabyte because they should have thought over the Issue in such a highend/high priced board) [Any suggestions are welcome guys!!!]

The Machine ... Closer Look
A Few Shots
210.jpg


The Machine ... Closer Look
A Few Shots
213.jpg


The Machine ... Closer Look
A Few Shots
214.jpg


The Machine ... Closer Look
A Few Shots
217.jpg

Note: the dealer give me one more shiny fan it has 4 coloured lights so i installed them. you will see it in later picture.

The Machine ... Closer Look
A Few Shots
218.jpg

Lights Camera Action ........ :bounce:

Thanks A Lot Guys
 

dAttitude

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Ok Another thing i wanted to talk to you guys about is that i have noticed some uneven things while i run a few utilities which came along with the motherboard and also downloaded from the net and they show a few points which are not understandable by me so it will be a great help if you experts can decode the same for me please.



CPU Details on CPU-Z & EasyTune 6 (which came with gigabyte mobo)
CPU_Details.jpg

NOTE: i hope everything is ok here ... :)

Motherboard Details on CPU-Z & EasyTune 6
CPU-Z_Mainboard.jpg

NOTE: i hope everything is ok here ... :)

Memory Module 1 Details on CPU-Z & EasyTune 6
Memory1_Details.jpg

Memory2_Details.jpg


NOTE: Here you will notice that i have marked a few areas with .1 .2 .3 red markings. the reason is that i really dont understand and have few dounts.

.1 :
- What is NB Frequency (Norhtbridge?) and do i need to know anything about it?
- is DRAM Frequency is the RAM Speed? i have purchased RAM witht he 1600MHz speed, why showing 666MHz??? if it is the RAM Clock Speed?? (i know you should think i am worst than a novice but thats just me, as people say, half knowledge is worst than no knowledge ... ;) )

.1
- as you can notice it on the box i have purchased RAM of DDR3 1600 PC3 12800 but in the results its showing PC3 10700G (667MHz) whats wrong??? i have not touched the BIOS yet. are default settings in BIOS set to a very low values??? i am not much of a BIOS person and even till date i am scared to update BIOS fearing the corruption of motherboard or something wrong may happen. so i have not been through the BIOS except for making the DVD Drive my primary boot device. please help ...

.2
what are these values??? should they differ in both the modules???? i thought it was 9-9-9-24 if we are looking at the latency!


Memory Module 1 Details on CPU-Z & EasyTune 6
QuickBoost.jpg

NOTE: Should i play around with this thing??? i am just paranoid for now (or in a decent sense, a little overcautious right now. its a brand new computer u see ... hehheh)


Memory Module 1 Details on CPU-Z & EasyTune 6
SMART.jpg

NOTE: What is this thing??? any idea anyone ????

Memory Module 1 Details on CPU-Z & EasyTune 6
HardwareMonitor.jpg

NOTE: well guys, i had a couple of questions ... what should be the ideal CPU temperature at a high task? like graphic or publishing software designing and 3D application workload? i dont shut off my pc for a long time and i mean days at a stretch and not just hours and many times it keeps rendering stuff and or other activities and i am sure it increases the CPU temp. so what should we be looking at? and if with no activity at all (there is nothing else on the comp right now apart from windows. no activity what so ever) the temp is at 42/43 (as you can see in the image) do you think its normal or its not good?

Memory Module 1 Details on CPU-Z & EasyTune 6
PowerSaver.jpg

NOTE: Should i activate this utility? i havent done it yet as i am not sure and i dont like my pc going into hibernate or sleep mode because many of the times when its idle, it keeps doing some or the other task, if its idle, its wouldnt be switched on (i would rather save electricity right .... :))

WELL THTS ALL FOR NOW!!!
i will keep you posted of anything thats new or happening .... ;)
Thanks for all your help guys! i am very happy ...

BUT PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE OR NOT WITH MY HARDWARE!

Thanks a BILLION :D
dAttitude ...!
 

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