Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

I7 vs. Phenom ii x4

Tags:
  • CPUs
  • Computer
  • Intel i7
  • Phenom
Last response: in CPUs
Share
February 16, 2010 12:09:03 PM

I am building my own computer for gaming. And I am torn between the i7 920 and phenom 2 x4. I am not looking to do any serious overclocking. I am trying to find the fastest of the two. Any advice is appreciated:) 

More about : phenom

a b à CPUs
February 16, 2010 12:26:51 PM

i7 920 would suit you perfectly - AMD can barely match the out going C2Q in most cases, let alone i5 / i7's
m
0
l
February 16, 2010 3:13:10 PM

The Phenom II X4 has no problem competing with either the C2Q or the i7 and i5 chips. Fans of the Intel chips will claim otherwise but other than for a few non-graphical (and often rarely used) applications their opinions are not backed by actual benchmark data. But they do really hate it if somebody points that minor fact out.

It is well known that the PhII X4 has no problems scaling with 2x5870 or a single 5970. There are tests that show this to be true and there is no evidence or tests that show otherwise. (Unless you include the one test where the reviewer admitted he had major driver problems; which means that test is non-conclusive.) Basically the i7-920 and the PhenomII 965 perform about the same in most tests when they are clocked at anything above 3.0Ghz. (NOTE: 3.0Ghz would be an overclock for the i7-920 and an underclock for the PhII 965.)

Whether or not synthetic benchmarks are important is debatable. They are often deemed important if they show a definitive "win" and not important if they do not. In the case of graphics cards if you compare the 3DMark Vantage GPU scores in their online database and you can easily compare i7-920 and PhII X4 at the same frequency when comparing the graphics cards. If you look at the 5970 graphics card with CPU chips clocked in the same range you will find that the PhII X4 usually has a higher GPU score than a i7-920 at the same clock speed. But since the i7 has a better CPU score on that test it ends up with an overall higher score and "the win". Some people consider the overall score to be more important than only the GPU score. Which is even more ridiculous in that test when you have people with Physx enabled cards that allow the CPU score to be extremely artificially inflated.
m
0
l
Related resources
a b à CPUs
February 16, 2010 3:17:27 PM

If you are only gaming on the pc then the PII x4 is the way to go. If you want to do heavy calculations and what not then i7 is the chip for you. I was looking through the i5 vs 965 posts and I can’t seem to find the bench marks for cf with the i7, i5, and 965. The bottom line of the bench marks were that the 965 performed just as well as the i7 and i5 with cf 5870, I believe the difference was < 5 fps.

Do you upgrade your full system when you upgrade or do you normally do it piece by piece? If you normally do a full upgrade each time go with the PII x4. If you do piece by piece you may want to get the i7 because the next gen gpus are less likely to be bottlenecked by the i7, though they may not be bottlenecked by either cpu.

With either chip you will get the same performance in-game right now, and you will be happy with it.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 2:07:52 AM

Quote:
Benchmarks don't lie

Even at 3.8Ghz a X4 doesn't even come close to a 2.66Ghz I7

http://media.bestofmicro.com/D/Q/219518/original/image033.png


Psycho.... You and I both know that Far Cry 2 is a game DESIGNED for Intel processors. What is wrong with you? I am ashamed that you would post such a benchmark as an overall fight over P2 vs i7.... That is like me cherry picking benchmarks where the P2 wins (and there ARE benchmarks where the p2 beats the i7) and saying SEE SEE!!! INTEL > AMD LOLZ.

Drop the act psycho you are starting to annoy me with your non-stop Intel fanboyism.
m
0
l
February 17, 2010 2:08:36 AM

Quote:
Benchmarks don't lie

Even at 3.8Ghz a X4 doesn't even come close to a 2.66Ghz I7

http://media.bestofmicro.com/D/Q/219518/original/image033.png



http://www.anandtech.com/bench/default.aspx?p=88&p2=99&...

check this out, specifically the gaming benchmarks. Farcry 2 is known to favor intel architectures...i've put the phenom 955 against the i7 975 just to prove a point...cpu doesn't matter as much for gaming, and the 955 will do you well for much less.
m
0
l
February 17, 2010 2:46:39 AM

Quote:
Benchmarks don't lie

Even at 3.8Ghz a X4 doesn't even come close to a 2.66Ghz I7



Actually benchmarks CAN and DO lie.

When you compare a group of benchmarks results and most of the results are within a few FPS and/or percent but then you have one that has a major difference that is called an "anomaly" and anybody that understands statistics will ignore that anomalous result unless they can explain why such an anomaly exists.

Apparently on forums some people believe that anomalous and misleading results should not be ignored. In fact often some people will go to great lengths to make sure that the result is posted repeatedly in an attempt to make it more acceptable.

If they CAN provide a logical or rational explanation for the anomaly that would be completely different. But that never happens. The least acceptable excuse possible would be to attempt to claim that "benchmarks don't lie." Because if you attempt to pass an anomalous result off as being average or representative behavior then that is a direct lie.

As can be readily seen with this failed attempt at misdirection by the quoted poster. (The only thing more pathetic is when several of the fanboys attempt to justify this type of behavior.)
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 2:51:43 AM

i7 is of course the better, but the performance gain in GAMING is definitely not worth the premium.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 2:53:48 AM

Consider i5-750 or PII-955 which has the best cost-performance ratio and more than enough for any games out there.

Get whichever has the better cost-performance ratio.

FYI, i5-750 has better cost-performance ratio in the U.S., whereas, 955 is better in most countries.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 3:08:39 AM

Yes Consider i5...
i7 level performance for cheap!!
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 1:23:33 PM

andy5174 said:
FYI, i5-750 has better cost-performance ratio in the U.S., whereas, 955 is better in most countries.


How do you figure? I have a microcenter near me and the cheapest I can get an i5 750 is $180 and on newegg it cost $195. Now a PII 955 cost $160 at both places. That is a $20-$35 difference and that’s not even including the fact that intel motherboards cost more. Now explain how spending well over $20 to get no gain is worth it. If we were talking about something cpu intensive and not gaming then the i5 would be about the same cost/performance ratio hence it would be worth the extra money.

Could we please have one thread where all the bs fan boy stuff doesn’t come out.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 1:27:15 PM

i5-750 was merely $149.99.

Super sale is not always on and you can just wait for the price of i5-750 to drop back.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 1:33:27 PM

andy5174 said:
i5-750 was merely $149.99.

Super sale is not always on and you can just wait for the price of i5-750 to drop back.


When did you see that because I have been watching prices for a while and never saw it that low.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 1:35:53 PM

A lot of peoples here know that. Ask others if you don't trust me.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 1:39:25 PM

andy5174 said:
A lot of peoples here know that. Ask others if you don't trust me.


I’m just asking you how long ago, and I am assuming that it was on sale at microcenter.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 1:43:35 PM

Pro Llama said:
I’m just asking you how long ago, and I am assuming that it was on sale at microcenter.

Less than a month ago at Microcenter.

BTW, Psychosaydi works for Microcenter and so he should be able to give you more details.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 3:31:32 PM





Quote:
Benchmarks don't lie


You said it Psycho.
m
0
l
February 17, 2010 3:36:35 PM

andy5174 said:
i7 is of course the better, but the performance gain in GAMING is definitely not worth the premium.


what this guy said. i7 is only much better for HIGHLY threaded apps and games don't really count towards this at all. By the time games can really make sure of even an AMD quad core, the Bulldozer will be out and then we'll see some competition between AMD and Intel for best performance.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 5:49:04 PM

I don't see how this turned into a fight lol. Someone said i7 is faster, then someone said phenom ii is just as fast when using up to a 5970 / 5870 xfire. Someone agreed. Someone then said ohenom ii " matches c2q let alone i5 i7. Then someone went beserk, then someone else does.

Everything said here is true. Why did you go crazy keith and others? C2q matches i5 and i7 up to a 5970 just like phenom ii does. Phenom ii and c2q are nearly equal, i7 and i5 are in a class of their own. Phenom ii / c2q are just 'good enough' for now for gaming but that doesn't technically make them equal to i5/i7.

Jenny i see amd's flagship beating a q9400 and some dual cores. What's your point? :p 

The op asked a simple question, and I know we can all agree the i7 is simply superior to phenom ii. Jesus who cares.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 5:59:13 PM

Raidur said:
Jenny i see amd's flagship beating a q9400 and some dual cores. What's your point? :p 


It's no wonder you cannot see the Phenom II beating the i7 and i5 when your eyes are obviously conditioned to ignoring it when it happens. Look again. ;) 
m
0
l
February 17, 2010 6:49:48 PM

strictly from a gaming standpoint, the i7 would be money wasted. i participated in this money waste already and would discourage it. the only exception would be if you really have some apps that can benefit from the i7 or if you are running multiple high end video cards. it seemed even multiple high end video card performance was marginal at best for me. P2 955 has kept me very happy and delivers a cleaner, better feel to gaming without warming your room 10 degrees in the process.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 6:50:49 PM

Raidur said:
I don't see how this turned into a fight lol. Someone said i7 is faster, then someone said phenom ii is just as fast when using up to a 5970 / 5870 xfire. Someone agreed. Someone then said ohenom ii " matches c2q let alone i5 i7. Then someone went beserk, then someone else does.

Everything said here is true. Why did you go crazy keith and others? C2q matches i5 and i7 up to a 5970 just like phenom ii does. Phenom ii and c2q are nearly equal, i7 and i5 are in a class of their own. Phenom ii / c2q are just 'good enough' for now for gaming but that doesn't technically make them equal to i5/i7.

Jenny i see amd's flagship beating a q9400 and some dual cores. What's your point? :p 

The op asked a simple question, and I know we can all agree the i7 is simply superior to phenom ii. Jesus who cares.


Obviously it wasn’t that clear of a question to you. The op is talking about building a gaming computer and you are saying that the i7 is superior. As even you said “C2q matches i5 and i7 up to a 5970 just like phenom ii does” hence the i7 is not superior for this application.

The reason why things “go crazy” is because fan boys seem to have a habit of posting bs as often as they can. Honestly you’re not exactly helping either because your facts aren’t strait. You say that the i5 and i7 are in a class of their own. I could support you saying that the i7 is in a class of its own, but the i5 performs about the same as a PII 965 with turbo boost enabled. Here is a good read for you: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/272741-28-truth-pheno...
m
0
l
February 17, 2010 7:00:30 PM

Raidur said:
i7 and i5 are in a class of their own.


The i7 may or may not be a small amount better than the Phenom II. That particular fact can still be debated as has been done in the past. It is definitely not in a class of it's own; although it is clear that many people want to fool others into believing that to be an indisputable truth. But just because some people want to believe that does not make it indisputable.

However the i5 is almost as good as the Phenom II. It is not superior as so many people often attempt to falsely claim on forums. When you add additional blatant incorrect statements about how the Intel chips scale better than the AMD chips with multiple graphics cards then it really starts getting deep.

Statements that are presented as being indisputably true when they have dubious veracity definitely need to be pointed out.
m
0
l
February 17, 2010 7:31:29 PM

For gaming right now, there really won't be any difference between a PII 955 and an i7-920. In a few CPU-intensive games, such as WoW, you might squeeze a few extra FPS out of the i7 in a couple occasions - but the difference would still be very minimal. This is especially true if you're going with any sort of sane single card or Crossfire/SLI setup. With some higher-end cards or dual-GPU setups, like a 5970 or a GTX 285 SLI or something, then the i7 would bottleneck games less. Either way, both will give you excellent framrates in every game out there at max settings.

In the future (a few years down the line), if you choose to upgrade your video card, I would imagine that an i7 would then hold up better as the bottleneck would likely shift from the GPU to the CPU. But even by then, both processors would look ancient compared to newer technology.

I would really base your decision on your budget. Unless you really have the money to spend, a 955 or an i5-750 would be the way to go. Either one would still be better than what 99% of the PC users out there have, and better than what the vast majority of PC gamers are currently using. If you have a huge budget and won't be sacrificing the video card, then why not get an i7-920 simply for longevity?

Either way...considering it's still possible to run most games at 60+ FPS with a Core 2 Duo or Athlon x2 at decent clock speeds, you can't go wrong with an i5, PII, or i7.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 7:49:29 PM

Jenny; lol, silly me there's the 750. Didn't think you'd post something so pointless lol. Doing all this on my droid at work hehe.

Prollama; he wasn't asking what the best performer was for the money, or for his setup. Just which cpu performed better for gaming. "I am trying to find the fastest of the two". The i7 is going to be less of a limiting factor compared to phenom ii on future gpu setups, making it better.

As for i5, the out-of-box performance may be matched and sometimes beat by the 965 but when overclocking comes into play the i5 will retake the lead. We're talking quite a gap in oc headroom. Turbo or no turbo. I guess it is a stretch to call the i5 a class of its own but it definitely out performs phenom ii when the more than average consumer gets it (any of us).

Keith: same thing about the i5. Saying the phenom ii out-performs i5 because of out-of-box performance in a forum like this seems silly. Unless of course you mean I'm still wrong.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 7:57:51 PM

I7 is only a waste of money if you don't plan on having a gpu setup that phenom ii can't handle before upgrading your cpu. I7 is for future proofing. Overkill yes, but I wouldn't call it a complete waste of money.

Tbh if you can oc phenom ii is plenty for a good while for how slow the progression of games is going. I7 is hard to justify for most.
m
0
l
February 17, 2010 8:15:16 PM

Raidur said:
I7 is only a waste of money if you don't plan on having a gpu setup that phenom ii can't handle before upgrading your cpu. I7 is for future proofing. Overkill yes, but I wouldn't call it a complete waste of money.


Any GPU setup that a Phenom II can't currently handle also makes the i7 struggle. Future proofing?

BTW: your "out-of-the-box" comments from your previous post mean a little less than nothing. The PhII at 4.0Ghz competes against i7 chips at 4.0Ghz and the i5 is a step down. So out of the box and overclocked the i5 is almost as good as Phenom II. Almost.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 8:46:16 PM

You'll have to show some data proving those statements keith. Everything I've seen shows i5 beating phenom ii clock for clock, especially when not gpu bound. Also what shows i7 to struggle too? I've seen the i7 take the 5970 to its max with around 800 less mhz than phenom ii and sometimes more.

I've seen c2q match i7 at 4.0 ghz does that mean c2q is better than i5?
m
0
l
February 17, 2010 9:50:58 PM

Raidur said:
You'll have to show some data proving those statements keith. Everything I've seen shows i5 beating phenom ii clock for clock, especially when not gpu bound. Also what shows i7 to struggle too? I've seen the i7 take the 5970 to its max with around 800 less mhz than phenom ii and sometimes more.

I've seen c2q match i7 at 4.0 ghz does that mean c2q is better than i5?


You mean the overclocked i5 beating the massively underclocked PhII? It is pathetic that somebody had to lower their standards enough to create that review in attempt to make the i5 look better. You also realize that comparing clock-per-clock at extreme underclocked speeds means nothing when comparing the chips when they are both overclocked to 4.0Ghz?

Go ahead and attempt to reduce to the conversation to something ridiculous. That rarely works but the people that use that tactic THINK it makes them look good.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 17, 2010 10:38:01 PM

Huh? You just put like 15 words in my mouth lol. I mean clock for clock, meaning both cpus clocked at the same frequency. 2ghz or 4ghz. You'll come up with near the same results if gpu bottlenecking doesn't occur.

Even core 2 quad beats phenom ii clock for clock.

I5 and i7 are more similar than you think. Do you really think ht and tripple channel ram go that far in gaming?
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 18, 2010 2:04:13 AM

Look the i7 is friggin superior okay? Nobody is debating THAT. What we are debating is what kind of CPU is needed. All I have seen from the i7 camp is along the lines of "Oh gee this guy need an extra .000000001 load time in his firefox so he should get an i7" No. You will not notice a difference between an i7 and a p2 in most games/applications. Benchmarks and maybe 4 GTX 285s running an Intel preferred game, sure, you will notice a slight difference. Honestly though, I would like to see an experiement where a bunch of people are randomly given a P2 and an i7 to see if they can even notice a difference in day to day stuff. Chances are none but what I can guarantee is people will go back to flocking for their fanboy chipset. Makes NO sense to me... not at all. There has even been a wave of "quads beat duals in the future" since a year ago and the E8500 still keeps up on the benchmarks. *Bashes head into wall*
m
0
l
February 18, 2010 2:15:04 AM

The i7 is technically faster, but it doesn't mean it will always be faster than Phenom II, Phenom II may have an advantage in some benchmarks or programs, and Core i7s usually have the advantage against Phenom II in many programs.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 18, 2010 2:17:32 AM

reprotected said:
The i7 is technically faster, but it doesn't mean it will always be faster than Phenom II, Phenom II may have an advantage in some benchmarks or programs, and Core i7s usually have the advantage against Phenom II in many programs.


Exactly. Though you must asses are the advantages worth the extra down payment. In most cases they are not. If you are a CPU fanatic like psycho then they might be. I only ever wonder about upgrading my old E8500 every few months or so... This sucker still kicks the sh out of everything I throw at it. I don't even see why people want quads yet unless they are professionals in their tech fields.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 18, 2010 5:55:20 PM

I thought the debate was which cpu was faster. :) 

Hell the op could probably be ok with athlon ii x2 and never notice the difference on most apps. Hell even games if his budget is low enough, but he didn't specify. The op wanted to start a flame and watch. Hell he's probably made 30 smores by now.

Will the average user need i7? No. Will some people get benefit from i7, even in gaming? Yes.
m
0
l
February 18, 2010 6:08:59 PM

for me i will take amd phenom II x4 965 3.4 Ghz intel its just a campony name and its very expnsiv sory for my bad english
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 18, 2010 6:59:19 PM

131 AMD and Intel Processors Benchmarked Together In One Article

The charts are organized by Manufacturer/series - Mousing over the charts will reorganize them by strict performance numbers. Choose the benchmarks which are relevant to your usage. And also consider dolars spent relative to your budget.
m
0
l
February 18, 2010 7:33:42 PM

OK TO SUM THIS WHOLE THREAD UP!!!


Intell = slightly better processor = way more expensive = not important when gaming.

Amd= slightly worse processor = way cheaper!! = not noticable when gameing and will still put the graphics card through its paces.


End result= The Amd Processor matched with leading edge Ati Graphics card is capable of smashing all fps benchmarks when it comes to gaming, and video decoding... Save yourself the money and Go with AMD!!!!
m
0
l
February 18, 2010 7:38:17 PM

I have a Phenom2 and a 5770 and i play crysis on very high, with aa off, at 1920x1080 res and get 40+ fps so im saying it is great it doesnt even affect my cpu!!! what gets taxed is my 5770 i need a 5970!!!!
m
0
l
February 18, 2010 7:39:25 PM

its all about the Gpu at this point save the money at the processor and spend it toward a better Graphics card!!!
m
0
l
February 18, 2010 7:45:42 PM

after reading this B.S i think i wasted alot of money on the i7 lmao
should've gone with the AMD ROUTE woulda saved me about 100 Bucks
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 18, 2010 7:58:07 PM

Yeah I'll be good w/o i7 for another couple years until those 6k ati cards release. :) 

I wouldn't say you wasted $100. Think of it this way, when those phenom ii owners start upgrading to support those higher end gpus you'll just overclock to 3.6+ and save at least $100.
m
0
l
February 18, 2010 8:02:12 PM

I thought for the 32 nm tech amd wanted to intigrate their gpu's and Cpu on the same chip? that is supposed to be the end result of the whole "Fusion" program.
Right now the fusion program is just in the software phase, allowing the amd processors to work in harmony with the ATI graphics cards.
m
0
l
February 18, 2010 8:03:37 PM

Intell is more of a leader on the professional side of computing and amd is more on the gaming side..
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 18, 2010 11:36:51 PM

darkjuggalo2000 said:
Intell is more of a leader on the professional side of computing and amd is more on the gaming side..


Not exactly. Last figure I read was there are more super computers using AMD chips than Intel.
m
0
l
February 18, 2010 11:44:46 PM

werxen said:
Not exactly. Last figure I read was there are more super computers using AMD chips than Intel.



yea thats true but i was just refering to the average user components not massive servers or super computers.. but thats a very good point!!!
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 18, 2010 11:47:20 PM

Ah more like i7 is. I5 and i3 are more mainstream but amd will usually have better price/performance for most setups/budgets.

Less fights would happen if people would accept that gaming performance goes

Out of box:
I7>i5>=phenom ii x4>c2q

Overclocked:
I7>i5>c2q>=phenom ii x4

Price/performance:
Phenom ii>=i5>c2q=>i7

Of course the price/performance depends on the rest of your setup, but this is for the average/slight above average for new systems.

I7s price for performance is not worth it for most gamers since it is overkill... this will obviously change in the future.

This does not make phenom ii better than i7. This does not make i7 better than phenom ii. This makes phenom ii a better price/performer. I7 is still the performance leader.

If people would choose their words more carefully then others wouldn't feel the need to correct them.

Amd vs intel?

Amd AND intel. :) 

Intel keeps performance high, amd keeps prices low (lately). They need eachother, just like we need them both.
m
0
l
February 18, 2010 11:49:38 PM

Raidur said:
Ah more like i7 is. I5 and i3 are more mainstream but amd will usually have better price/performance for most setups/budgets.

Less fights would happen if people would accept that gaming performance goes

Out of box:
I7>i5>=phenom ii x4>c2q

Overclocked:
I7>i5>c2q>phenom ii x4

Price/performance:
Phenom ii>=i5>c2q=>i7

Of course the price/performance depends on the rest of your setup, but this is for the average/slight above average for new systems.

I7s price for performance is not worth it for most gamers since it is overkill... this will obviously change in the future.

This does not make phenom ii better than i7. This does not make i7 better than phenom ii. This makes phenom ii a better price/performer. I7 is still the performance leader.

If people would choose their words more carefully then others wouldn't feel the need to correct them.
Amd vs intel?

Amd AND intel. :) 

Intel keeps performance high amd keeps prices low (lately). They need eachother, just like we need them both.





hmm...

very well said
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
February 19, 2010 12:23:46 AM

Raidur said:
Ah more like i7 is. I5 and i3 are more mainstream but amd will usually have better price/performance for most setups/budgets.

Less fights would happen if people would accept that gaming performance goes

Out of box:
I7>i5>=phenom ii x4>c2q

Overclocked:
I7>i5>c2q>phenom ii x4

Price/performance:
Phenom ii>=i5>c2q=>i7

Of course the price/performance depends on the rest of your setup, but this is for the average/slight above average for new systems.

I7s price for performance is not worth it for most gamers since it is overkill... this will obviously change in the future.

This does not make phenom ii better than i7. This does not make i7 better than phenom ii. This makes phenom ii a better price/performer. I7 is still the performance leader.

If people would choose their words more carefully then others wouldn't feel the need to correct them.
Amd vs intel?

Amd AND intel. :) 

Intel keeps performance high amd keeps prices low (lately). They need eachother, just like we need them both.


ooooh +1, great post to sum it up
m
0
l
      • 1 / 2
      • 2
      • Newest
!