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Ati 4870x2 Crossfired problem with framerates?

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December 8, 2009 7:44:29 PM

Ok so i bought a new rig a couple of days ago and i decided to get two 4870x2 and crossfire them. Then is when my problems started. Whenever i try and play something i get the feeling (as i haven't checked numbers yet) that when i do with crossfire enabled i don't get better fps than when i play with crossfire disabled. For example Modern Warfare 2, at some places i was really getting my fps dropping below 30 as i could feel the sluggish movement. It's not the PSU as far as I can tell coz I don't have any other kind of problems and I can keep on playing for hours, it is the non-existent performance on Crossfire that worries me.

I came from a clean win7 ultimate x64 install, uninstalled Catalyst, using driver cleaner, re-installing latest Catalyst (9.11) but nothing. On CrossfireX tab at Catalyst control panel i get only a box to tick or untick which enables or disables Crossfire right? I also read somewhere that on taskbar you should get a Crossfire icon, is that correct? I only have the ATI icon from Catalyst. Also I've linked the cards with one bridge, do I need to use a second one aswell? I used 3D Mark 06 to see if i am hallucinating and the results where dissapointing.

Crossfire
3DMark Score 15769 3DMarks
SM2.0 Score 6 K
HDR/SM3.0 Score 7 K
CPU Score 5 K

Non-Crossfire
3DMark Score 15649 3DMarks
SM2.0 Score 6 K
HDR/SM3.0 Score 7 K
CPU Score 5 K

Also Everest reports the 1st pci-e as x16 and the second (where my 2nd card is installed) as x4, dunno if this is of any importance.

I really am at a loss here, any help would be really really appreciated! My specs are listed below.

Intel core i7 1156 2.8GHz
Mobo Asus P7P55D LE
2x GSKILL 2GB 1600MHz DDR3
2x Asus 4870x2
PSU Thermaltake 700Watt SLI-certified (although i am using crossfire) :p 
Windows 7 Ultimate x64 EN
December 8, 2009 8:08:22 PM

Hi, two things:

#1 - You are using Win 7 -- ATi drivers, whether for 4xxx or 5xxx series simply aren't THAT mature yet, so this could have something to do with CrossFireX performance.

#2 - The only example you gave was CoD:MW2 -- again, this game is simply too new to be using as your only game benchmark. Odds are that drivers will be updated at some point to give better performance to CoD:MW2 specifically. Try an older game that is known to have good results with xFireX turned on.

The 3Dmark scores are baffling a little -- but this is 3D Mark 06, see what you get with Vantage -- 06 is really getting old when its nearly 2010.
December 8, 2009 8:34:24 PM

hardwaretechy said:
Hi, two things:

#1 - You are using Win 7 -- ATi drivers, whether for 4xxx or 5xxx series simply aren't THAT mature yet, so this could have something to do with CrossFireX performance.

#2 - The only example you gave was CoD:MW2 -- again, this game is simply too new to be using as your only game benchmark. Odds are that drivers will be updated at some point to give better performance to CoD:MW2 specifically. Try an older game that is known to have good results with xFireX turned on.

The 3Dmark scores are baffling a little -- but this is 3D Mark 06, see what you get with Vantage -- 06 is really getting old when its nearly 2010.


Thanks for the reply. Yeah 3D mark is a bit old nowadays but it was the only handy benchmark i could do at time. I'll try Vantage and get back with the results.
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a b U Graphics card
December 9, 2009 4:57:09 AM

This is kinda funny, ohh well. First of all what are you doing CF'ing 2 4870x2's with a 700w PSU????

One 4870x2 requires a 650w (alone) and you are trying to power 2 of them...technically you can run a single 4870x2 with a good 550w PSu but that would be pushin it...

System Requirements :whistle:  PCI ExpressR based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard
650 Watt or greater power supply with one 2x3-pin PCIeR power connector and one 2x4-pin PCIeR power connector is required (1K Watt with two 2x3-pin and two 2x4-pin connectors for ATI CrossFireX technology in dual mode)
Certified power supplies are recommended. Refer to http://ati.amd.com/certifiedPSUfor a list of Certified products
Minimum 1GB of system memory
Installation software requires CD-ROM drive
DVD playback requires DVD drive
Blu-ray / HD DVD playback requires Blu-ray / HD DVD drive

:o 



December 9, 2009 8:43:45 AM

So in general I got owned :p 

What do you think about http://www.e-shop.gr/show_per.phtml?id=PER.650670 (the page is in greek but i suppose you can figure out the details) :p 

Problem is that I can't find any certified ATI PSU in greek market. I think the one above is ok but since I will pay again for a second PSU it doesn't hurt to ask :)  Thanks again for the help!
a b U Graphics card
December 9, 2009 2:26:31 PM

Well you really don't need a 1,500w PSU, that would be overkill but that 1,200w should be more than enough. Try getting a 1,000w if you can find one, if not whatever fits your budget. Just make sure you get at least a 1,000w just to be on the safe side.
a b U Graphics card
December 9, 2009 2:55:10 PM

a good 1000 watts will power 2 4870x2's
enermax 1050 watts
corsair hx1000(you could chance the hx 850 since they pulled over a 1000 watts from it)
corsair tx 950
ocz 1000 watts
pc power and cooling 1000 watts
bfg 1000 watts
Cooler Master Silent Pro M1000
Silverstone OP1000-P 1000W
Hiper M1000 1kW
NorthQ Giant Reactor 1000W
Seventeam Thundering 1000W
December 9, 2009 6:41:54 PM

Okay, thanks, i will try getting another psu and let's hope that's the solution to my problem!
December 11, 2009 9:26:41 PM

No luck with the PSU. I got a Thermaltake 1200watt, still same ***.

3Dmark Vantage score below, dissapointing ...

non-crossfire
gpu:12242
cpu:17994

crossfire
pgu:12180
cpu:18046

What the hell should i do, maybe roll back to Vista x64 and try my luck there?...
a b U Graphics card
December 11, 2009 11:15:28 PM

No... What OS are you running now?

Do you have a pic of the insides of your PC?
December 12, 2009 8:05:03 AM

I'll get some and post them soon!
December 12, 2009 8:06:37 AM

Also someone mentioned to me that the second card should at least be on a pci-e x8 and not the x4 that it is on now. is that true?
a b U Graphics card
December 12, 2009 5:42:57 PM

Yea your board is x16/x4 not good at all for a dual GPU setup, but you should have a much higher score in CF regardless....

I bet you have not enabled CF in your CCC display properties.... Did you just install the cards and boot or did you make sure the PC is recognizing both GPU's?
December 12, 2009 7:59:03 PM

OC that Intel core i7 1156 2.8GHz to the MOON (3,5-4,5Ghz) and run those test again !
December 13, 2009 4:20:11 PM

@OverClkr
CF is enabled and seems to be recognising both cards in CCC.

@Milos
I would if i didn't have the stock intel cooling fan :p 
December 13, 2009 4:38:06 PM

To begin with for cool facts, a lot of applications have trouble actually detecting duap GPU chips on a single card, especially games. On top of that, if your board is really a x16 slot and a x4 slot, like you and OvrClkr said, the second card won't perform properly as its deffinately meant to run on a x16 slot! This could actually be the fix to the issue lol

Maybe it might be time to get a new motherboard? I got an ASUS M4A78T-E for that reason and works like a charm (AM3 socket and AMD 790GX chip for around $120).
December 13, 2009 7:31:27 PM

I have already ordered an ASUS board with x8/x8 for crossfire. The only thing that bothers me and i still have doubts if it will be fixed with the new mobo is the low 3d mark scores with crossfire disabled.
a b U Graphics card
December 13, 2009 8:26:51 PM

What board did you order?



a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2009 6:20:57 AM

Well if it is not the board, hopefully you can return it for a full refund...
December 14, 2009 7:25:52 AM

OvrClkr said:
Well if it is not the board, hopefully you can return it for a full refund...


Bleh, I'll keep it and return the one i have now since the new one is better anyway. If only i knew what i'm getting into, I would just go for SLI or just one card and be happy... I'll try to push my i7 a bit aswell and see what my results are. When i have the time i will also revert back to Vista x64 and try things there aswell.
December 15, 2009 7:04:19 AM

Bye bye crossfire. I just ordered a Saphire 5870, hopefully it will be fine with that. I didn't make the best of choices with the 1156 socket, i should've gone for 1366 or with an AMD solution in order to have x16/x16. Anyway, better luck next time i guess.

Thanks everyone and especially OvrClkr for staying tuned with this topic!
a b U Graphics card
December 15, 2009 1:10:31 PM

The performance hit is around 6/7% depending on the game. So you have nothing to worry about. So if you decide to install another 5870 down the road you will be fine.
December 22, 2009 7:05:01 AM

I think your motherboard was choking your second 4870 X2. If indeed your mobo was running one slot in x16 and the other in x4 consider the following:

PCI-e 2.0 16X = 8GB/s total bandwidth
PCI-e 2.0 8X = 4GB/s total bandwidth
PCI-e 2.0 4X = 2GB/s total bandwidth

HD 4870 X2 = 900mhz (quad piped - 3.6 GB/s data rate)(times 2) = 7.2 GB/s total data rate

Basically, your 2nd X2 was stuck in a slot that couldn't accomodate its bandwidth. If you truely want to do a 4870 X2 CFX you need two x16 slots. Most motherboards will say they have the x16 slots but if you put two x16 cards in you'll run them at x8 each cutting the bandwidth in half.

A 130$ mobo aint going to cut it for you. Going to a 5870 is an interesting step but the single X2 on-par or faster. If you got a 2nd 5870 later make sure you have enough bandwidth, at least an x8 slot to run it properly.
December 22, 2009 10:04:49 PM

maliclipse said:
I think your motherboard was choking your second 4870 X2. If indeed your mobo was running one slot in x16 and the other in x4 consider the following:

PCI-e 2.0 16X = 8GB/s total bandwidth
PCI-e 2.0 8X = 4GB/s total bandwidth
PCI-e 2.0 4X = 2GB/s total bandwidth

HD 4870 X2 = 900mhz (quad piped - 3.6 GB/s data rate)(times 2) = 7.2 GB/s total data rate

Basically, your 2nd X2 was stuck in a slot that couldn't accomodate its bandwidth. If you truely want to do a 4870 X2 CFX you need two x16 slots. Most motherboards will say they have the x16 slots but if you put two x16 cards in you'll run them at x8 each cutting the bandwidth in half.

A 130$ mobo aint going to cut it for you. Going to a 5870 is an interesting step but the single X2 on-par or faster. If you got a 2nd 5870 later make sure you have enough bandwidth, at least an x8 slot to run it properly.


changed the mobo some time now, unfortunately there isn't any for 1156 socket with two x16 lanes on crossfire so my best choice was x8/x8 for crossfire and x16 for single gpu. I also got the 5870 and there is a huge difference now on games, 3dmark etc. At some point i will get a second 5870 so we'll see then what happens :) 
December 23, 2009 3:59:40 AM

What games have you seen a positive difference in?

I almost bought a single 5870 when they came out but when I read the all the benchmarks, and boy, did I read all of them, the 4870 X2 was pretty much on par or better FPS wise on most games.

Running a 4870 X2 in a x8 slot would be choking it by a factor of two, two of them would be a complete waste.

Whats your new 3dmark score? My i7-920 @ 3ghz with a stock 4870 X2 gets a hair over 19k. I have another 4870 X2 coming in from ebay next week so we'll see how I scale. My mobo has 3 X16 slots that run 16/16/4 so I'll be golden with no choke points with 2 x X2s.

MH
a b U Graphics card
December 23, 2009 1:25:18 PM

maliclipse said:
What games have you seen a positive difference in?

I almost bought a single 5870 when they came out but when I read the all the benchmarks, and boy, did I read all of them, the 4870 X2 was pretty much on par or better FPS wise on most games.

Running a 4870 X2 in a x8 slot would be choking it by a factor of two, two of them would be a complete waste.

Whats your new 3dmark score? My i7-920 @ 3ghz with a stock 4870 X2 gets a hair over 19k. I have another 4870 X2 coming in from ebay next week so we'll see how I scale. My mobo has 3 X16 slots that run 16/16/4 so I'll be golden with no choke points with 2 x X2s.

MH


The 5870 is more powerfull than a 4870x2 in most games. Hence the fact it is a single GPU vs. the x2 which is dual GPU.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-review-tes...

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-review-tes...

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-review-tes...

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-review-tes...

The x2 is a bit faster in DX9 titles but that will soon change once the 5870 gets more mature drivers....






December 23, 2009 3:53:03 PM

I disagree, the X2 at this time is more powerful than the 5870 in most games. Guru3d did a good job with the review but many other reviewers had a different experience with the X2/5870. The Guru3d review had the X2 faster in most of the DX10 games but take a peak at these reviews:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/graphics/review/2009/10/0...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-h...

http://www.techspot.com/review/198-ati-radeon-hd-5870-r...

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_hd5870...

These are just a few examples. Games that clearly benefit from CrossFire will do a lot better at this time than the 5870. I agree its a great chip but $ for $ the X2 is better if you have the slot/slots to run it. My original point was that if you're looking to upgrade right now, a 400-450$ 5870 isn't a good deal when you can get a 4870X2 on ebay for 200-250$

I look forward to the 5870s dropping down to about 250-300 and at that point I might consider replacing my X2s with them but then again I'm waiting to see what NVidia does in the spring.

a b U Graphics card
December 23, 2009 4:11:47 PM

maliclipse said:
I disagree, the X2 at this time is more powerful than the 5870 in most games. Guru3d did a good job with the review but many other reviewers had a different experience with the X2/5870. The Guru3d review had the X2 faster in most of the DX10 games but take a peak at these reviews:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/graphics/review/2009/10/0...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-h...

http://www.techspot.com/review/198-ati-radeon-hd-5870-r...

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_hd5870...

These are just a few examples. Games that clearly benefit from CrossFire will do a lot better at this time than the 5870. I agree its a great chip but $ for $ the X2 is better if you have the slot/slots to run it. My original point was that if you're looking to upgrade right now, a 400-450$ 5870 isn't a good deal when you can get a 4870X2 on ebay for 200-250$

I look forward to the 5870s dropping down to about 250-300 and at that point I might consider replacing my X2s with them but then again I'm waiting to see what NVidia does in the spring.


Well I guess everyone has their own opinions. You gotta be nuts to buy a GPU off of E-bay unless it is a an XFX or Visiontek (with a live warranty). I have had my bad shares with the x2's in the past and at this point in time I would take a 5870 over any 4 series GPU.

The cheapest 4870x2 that E-bay has on sale is a refurbished model at 299.99$. There is a reason it is "refurbished". So I would steer away from such products, specially when they are used. If you want a brand new x2 it will cost you around 375.00/400.00$ <--- :lol: 

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313...

Here are a few more benches :

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=17

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=20

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=25
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