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Advice on my new system.

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December 9, 2009 4:35:52 PM

Hey everyone. This year for Christmas my parents are giving me a 1000 dollar budget to build my own PC. I am obviously planning to build a gaming PC.

These are the parts I chosen. I am looking for advice and if you guys have recommendations for better/cheaper parts that are just as good please let me know :) 

PS. I am an AMD fan boy. No Intel or Nvidia for me haha. Also i am planning on overclocking.

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E1681...

XCLIO A380BK Fully Black Computer Case With Side Panel Window - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E1681...

Sony Optiarc DVD/CD Rewritable Drive Black SATA Model AD-7240S-0B - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E1682...

Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1TB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E1682...

ASUS M4A78T-E ATX AMD Motherboard - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E1681...

XFX Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) HD-577A-ZNFC Video Card - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E1681...

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E1681...

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E1682...

The subtotal of that is like 1100 so if you guys could get it down 100 dollars that would be great, but i don't want to sacrifice performance, so I don't mind going a little over. Also I don't know to much about RAM.

So that's the system i want, lets see if you guys can make it any better :) 

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December 9, 2009 4:41:39 PM

that will be hard but maybe switch to the samsung f3 1tb and get 1333 mhz cl 7 or 8 ram
edited realised you in canada but the 790x has no on board graphics where as the 790gx does have onboard graphics but you getting a graphics card so on board graphics is not neeed
December 9, 2009 4:43:47 PM

Thanks, got any links?
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December 9, 2009 4:50:59 PM
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Ok couple changes

Case- Um really should get a HAF 922 for $100
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/ite...

element G also is nice also $100
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

or if you wanna stick to newegg, HAF 922 it's the same price as the Xclio.

HD get the Samsung Spinpoint F3 $54.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

Ram get the Gskill Ripjaws with 7-7-7-21 timings. $104.99
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

PSU- 750 is overkill for your needs. Get the 650, it can even run Xfire 5850's if you buy the modular version(non-modular doesn't have enough cables lol). $89.99 after mail in rebate
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...


Thats savings of $105 off total budget.
December 9, 2009 4:56:49 PM

awesome thanks, that case is so much sicker and i figured i went overkill on the PSU haha. Now the Ram what would be the main difference between the two?
December 9, 2009 5:03:03 PM

Looks like a nice build. I don't know how to save you money except by getting a less expensive case - a matter of style - or getting a slower GPU - a matter of performance.

Actually, there is one item you left out - you said you plan to OC - if more than modest amounts then you need a HSF. Depending on how much you OC, you might consider one of these HSFs:


Cooler Master Intel Core i5 compatible Hyper TX3 Socket 775/1156/AMD 130W 92mm "heatpipe direct contact" CPU Cooler RR-910-HTX3-GP - Retail - $20
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1683...

Scythe SCKBT-1000 120mm Sleeve Kabuto 6 Heat Pipes CPU Cooler - Retail - $50
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1683...

A comparison of the two:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit...
December 9, 2009 5:11:46 PM
December 9, 2009 5:20:47 PM

banthracis said:

Thats savings of $105 off total budget.


I don't see the savings.

Case - no change in price on newegg - if orders from TigerDirect the shipping cost for getting it separately from the rest of his newegg order will easily cost more than the $10 difference.

HD - Okay - a reduction in cash outlay of $45 - but also cuts size of HD in half and increases the cost per GB. If cash is tight and you don't need a large HD though this may help - I would stick with the Seagate (which I purchased about a month ago and am very happy with)

RAM - I don't think the faster timings will offset the slower speed - and it is a cost increase of $5

PSU - I agree that 750w is probably overkill and 650w is adequate, but with only 2 PCIe connectors it severly limits what you can Crossfire with in the future. I would not step down for the $40 cost savings when it limits the future so much. The modular 650w might be a good way to go - it also has the benefit of saving wires in the case - but the saving is then only $10

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...
December 9, 2009 7:01:10 PM

rockyjohn said:
I don't see the savings.

Case - no change in price on newegg - if orders from TigerDirect the shipping cost for getting it separately from the rest of his newegg order will easily cost more than the $10 difference.

HD - Okay - a reduction in cash outlay of $45 - but also cuts size of HD in half and increases the cost per GB. If cash is tight and you don't need a large HD though this may help - I would stick with the Seagate (which I purchased about a month ago and am very happy with)

RAM - I don't think the faster timings will offset the slower speed - and it is a cost increase of $5

PSU - I agree that 750w is probably overkill and 650w is adequate, but with only 2 PCIe connectors it severly limits what you can Crossfire with in the future. I would not step down for the $40 cost savings when it limits the future so much. The modular 650w might be a good way to go - it also has the benefit of saving wires in the case - but the saving is then only $10

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...



Unless he plans to xfire in the future the 650 is fine. There's more than enough headroom in the 650 to even run xfire 5870's. Even if he does wanna Xfire them, he can always get a few adapter cables to turn 2 molex's into 6pins, they're like $5.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5850,2433...

So yea, keep the non modular 650 and enjoy your $60 in savings there.


The reason for the RAM change is that timings make a bigger performance diff than speed. In fact, diff btwn DDR3 1033 and DDR3 1600 is negligible and definitely not noticeable.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/memory-scaling-i7,2...


Unless he's got major storage needs, a gaming rig doesn't need more than 500g. If he does need media storage space then get a nice efficient 5200 rpm 1/1.5tb drive. HD speed really doesn't matter for storing videos or other media on.

example 1.5 tb Caviar green for $109.99. That's efficient gb/dollar there.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


edit: Honestly for your setup a the corsair 550 linked above is more than enough, I'd just take the 650 since it's only $10 more and allows you to xfire in the future if you want.
December 9, 2009 9:04:23 PM

awesome guys thanks for all the advice, i am going to be defiantly changing the psu and a few other parts. ill update the lsit once i am finished and see what you guys think.
December 9, 2009 9:13:02 PM

also for the ram is the lower the timing the better? the ram i have now is 9-9-9-24, but what i am understandign is that 7-7-7-21 is faster?
December 9, 2009 9:16:04 PM

Yes, lower numbers are better for CAS ratings. If you have the choice between CAS 7 and CAS 9 RAM and the prices are similar, pick the CAS 7 RAM.
December 9, 2009 9:18:12 PM

cool thanks
December 9, 2009 9:33:38 PM

also what is the difference between the modular and non modular?
December 9, 2009 9:36:10 PM

matt1719 said:
also what is the difference between the modular and non modular?

Modular PSU's have detachable wires so you only plug in the wires that you need. It helps slightly when doing wire management, but isn't a big deal. Here's a nice, inexpensive, modular PSU that would easily power the system with a single GPU:

OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ500MXSP 500W $80.99 - $20 MIR
December 9, 2009 9:42:17 PM

So these are the changes i have made.

Sony Optiarc 24X DVD/CD Rewritable Drive Black SATA Model AD-7240S-0B - OEM - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

COOLER MASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Black Steel + Plastic and Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681... (not windowed :(  but lots of cooling :)  )

Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682... ( would have went with the samsungs, but they are not available in Canada)

ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...

XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - Retail - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 ... - Retail - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL7D-4GBRH - Retail - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1682...

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ955FBGIBOX - Retail - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681...

Cooler Master Intel Core i5 compatible Hyper TX3 Socket 775/1156/AMD 130W 92mm "heatpipe direct contact" CPU Cooler RR-910-HTX3-GP - Retail - http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1683...

and the subtotal is....984 :) 
I still think that maybe the MOBO and HDD could be changed, but with the MOBO i want lots of space and room for upgrades in the futrue.

Also how many Ghz do you think i could overclock the 955 with the cooling i will have, i am thinking 3.8 no problem.
December 9, 2009 9:46:51 PM

shortstuff_mt said:
The Asus board is good if you're looking for a cheap Crossfire capable motherboard. If you don't need Crossfire, I would actually go with this board:

GIGABYTE GA-MA770T-UD3P AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $89.99


Hmmm, well i doubt i will ever crossfire, but will it be cramped with that MOBO? i really dont know to much about them i jsut want one that will be big and future proof haha
December 9, 2009 9:52:33 PM

ATX motherboards are all about the same size. They have to stay within the ATX specs. According to the Newegg specs, the Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P is 12" x 8.27" and the Asus M4A79XTD EVO is 12" x 9.6".

That Gigabyte board will work just fine for a single GPU system. If you don't need Crossfire support then you definitely don't need the 650TX. I would consider the 500W modular OCZ PSU I linked to above for a single GPU system.
December 9, 2009 11:21:14 PM

Use ncix, they have pricematch feature that drops the price down to the competitor's price and they have better prices in some also. They only bad part is that they got no samsung f3s
December 10, 2009 12:25:25 AM

On the memory, your original memory was faster. The slower timings are only better if you don't give up too much in speed. In the link cited by Matt above to supposedly justtify the slower 1333 memory, if you look at the gaming benchmarks you will see the 1600 memory beat it in two out of three benchmarks. And in the benchmark the 1333 memory had 7-7-7-20 timings, slightly better than the one you selected with 7-7-7-21. I hate to see you paying more for slower memory.

I assumed you wanted to leave Crossfire open since you selected a C capable mobo and PSU. If not sure you should decide ahead as you can save by getting a cheaper mobo and PSU as noted above. But I sure hate to see you give up that option if you don't need to as it is a simple and inexpensive way to almost double video performance later since the CPU and rest of the sysem will already handle C.
December 10, 2009 1:28:27 AM

rockyjohn said:
On the memory, your original memory was faster. The slower timings are only better if you don't give up too much in speed. In the link cited by Matt above to supposedly justtify the slower 1333 memory, if you look at the gaming benchmarks you will see the 1600 memory beat it in two out of three benchmarks. And in the benchmark the 1333 memory had 7-7-7-20 timings, slightly better than the one you selected with 7-7-7-21. I hate to see you paying more for slower memory.

I assumed you wanted to leave Crossfire open since you selected a C capable mobo and PSU. If not sure you should decide ahead as you can save by getting a cheaper mobo and PSU as noted above. But I sure hate to see you give up that option if you don't need to as it is a simple and inexpensive way to almost double video performance later since the CPU and rest of the sysem will already handle C.



actually I linked the article. Yes ddr3 1600 does better than DDR3 1333 in a few of the benchmarks, but that's negligible difference and within the margin of error. The article conclusion is that all the RAM they tested performed basically the same.

However, the 1333 ram has the advantage in that 1333 is the native HT or FSB freq these days. This makes OC a lot easier. The added bonus of tighter timings also adds to the ease of getting a good OC.

In fact, the AMD Black Editions let you OC using multiplier, and as a result, you don't need RAM that is faster than 1333.

Finally hes running an AMD system. I'm lazy so I'll just quote T RUsh on steam forums.


(note that a synchronous "data rate" with RAM is different than matching the actual frequency "1:1" with the FSB speed in MHz...the data rate of RAM is twice the frequency where the FSB data rate is four times the frequency...like comparing the speed two different bikes would be moving if one was in 2nd gear and the other in 4th gear, the actual frequency of the pedaling 'RPM' speed would not be the same for them both to be traveling at the same effective rate)...things are slightly different for Intel with FSB and AMD64 with a direct connection to the RAM, with Intel faster RAM can help as well as speed to timings quicker relationship...with AMD the speed does little where the speed to timings being as tight as possible helps much more, and there is no 'bus' to have a synchronization with
December 10, 2009 5:07:19 AM

banthracis said:
actually I linked the article. Yes ddr3 1600 does better than DDR3 1333 in a few of the benchmarks, but that's negligible difference and within the margin of error. The article conclusion is that all the RAM they tested performed basically the same.

You cited the review that you linked as proof that "The reason for the RAM change is that timings make a bigger performance diff than speed." I point out that the article showed just the opposite - at least on the 2 out of 3 benchmarks for gaming - the OPs intended use - so now you want to minimize the article you linked in?

You try to minimize the review by saying "in a few benchmarks" but it was 2 out of the 3 gaming benchmarks provided. And gaming is the intended use of the computer. But you change winning 67% of the releveant benchmarks into only "a few".

And I agree that the diferences were small, but then why cite this article as justifcation for going to more expensive memory that was actually slower?

You can go on explaining more rationales, I would stick with the benchmarks and faster (and coincidentally cheaper) memory.
December 10, 2009 4:29:01 PM

I cited that article to demonstrate the the difference btwn DDR3 1066 and DDR3 1600 was negligible.

The differences shown in that article are so minute that they are Insignificant and in the margin or error. That's all I was showing with that article.

Quote:
The results are obvious: going from one memory speed to the next, e.g. from DDR3-1066 to 1333, does not provide major benefits. Even the replacement of slow DDR3-800 RAM by DDR3-1600 memory will mostly yield disappointing results. While the performance advantage is measurable, it is never noticeable.


The reason that 7-7-7-21 timings are FASTER is, as I quoted above, due to AMD architecture, tighter timings make a much bigger difference than faster speeds.

I make no claim that article supports 7-7-7-21 timings being better performance, only than speed makes a non noticeable difference.

I stated "timings make a bigger performance diff than speed. " The reasons being AMD architecture.

So in summary. Article to show that faster timings doesn't net increased performance. I didn't want to get into architecture and FSB speed in OCing and other technical stuff to confuse the poor guy, but meh, guess I had to in the end.

Honestly though is $5 and a few % diff in performance, really not a reason to start a flame war.
December 10, 2009 4:40:22 PM

banthracis said:
Honestly though is $5 and a few % diff in performance, really not a reason to start a flame war.


I agree with that. But why did you start one then?
December 11, 2009 4:12:45 PM

so i think i will stick with the ripjaw ram. Also i think i may end up xfire in the future so will the MOBO i have now be good? do i have any better options, i also want the bios to be over clocking friendly. Also any recommendations for a cheaper hard drive? dont mind having 500GB
December 11, 2009 4:22:13 PM

I linked to the 500gb F3. It's definitely worth is as it give performance similar to a 300gb Velociraptor for $245 less and with a 200gb greater capacity. There's a reason those things are selling out as fast as Newegg gets em.


MOBO is fine for Xfire, though it's only x8 for each card if you have 2 installed. That's NOT an issue unless you're gaming at ultra high resolutions.

Some one is bound to argue for a dual x16 mobo so, meh, premptive posting of y it's not an issue.

Tom's posted a nice article a few months ago addressing the whole issues. They noted that while there was a difference, in P55 vs X58, it wasn't anything noticeable.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i5-lynnfield,2...


Quote:
Are eight lanes per card enough? Almost certainly, yes



Quote:
With two cards installed, Core i5 simply didn’t gain as much performance as Core i7 at high resolutions. It wasn’t, however, noticeably handicapped




high resolution in this case being 30" 2560x 1600" which I doubt the OP is gaming at.
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