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Water loop help and advice! MEGABUILD

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June 3, 2012 8:44:22 PM

I plan on buying a water loop to cool my future gaming computer. My plan is to cool the CPU, 3 GPU's, motherboard, and RAM. So about everything I can water cool, (Other than HDD, PSU).

The order of my loop proceeds like this:
24V pump-> 240mm Rad-> 3X GTX 680's-> 360mm Rad-> Ram #1-> Ram #2-> North Bridge/South bridge-> MOFSET?-> 140mm Rad-> CPU-> 480mm Rad-> 400mm Res-> 24V pump

The water cooling tubes, blocks, pump, anti-kink spring, fluid, and fittings are all coming from EK. I found that EK had good looking blocks, although i do not know how good all of the parts are.? Also all of my blocks will be nickle... is this a good choice? I choose the largest reservoirs i could find http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/shop/reservoirs-and-acc/re... how does the size of the radiator effect my loop?

My pump...
http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/shop/pumps-and-accessories...
I would like to know if this would handle my single loop or should i get two?

My specs
Spoiler
My Specs,
Case: AZZA Fusion 4000
Motherboard: ASUS Rampage IV Extreme
CPU: 3930K (Overclocked to around 5.0 Ghz)
RAM: 32 Gb Corsair Dominator (Quad channel)
GPU's: Three GTX 680's
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty Champion
HDD: 1.5TB Western Digital Cavier Black
SSD: 120 Gb
PSU: 1000w or more


My main questions are:
Is my loop in a good order?
Is my pump good enough?
Is my Resovoir good for my computer?


So any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated!

a c 190 K Overclocking
June 3, 2012 8:57:11 PM

I'd recommend reading through the W/c sticky up top first,
a couple of points though from me,
Res size is largely irrelevant, but I have four personally
unless you have an external 24v power supply your pumps will run at 12v from a Pc's Psu
loop order is also irrelevant apart from the res before pump caveat
nb,sb and mosfets are not essential to W/c but its your choice
and I would avoid EK nickel like I owed it money,
if its not problems with the plating corroding/flaking off, its EK demanding that you only use coolants approved by them or lose your warranty,
Moto
a b K Overclocking
June 3, 2012 9:47:06 PM

Motopsychojdn's right on all points, stay away from nickel period, It doesn't play well with copper and brass. I'd give the XSPC Raystorm cpu block a look. Just check out the reviews. It comes with blue led's but you can easily change those to the color of your choosing. Also the XSPC RX line of radiator are some of the best on the market. Thick low fpi radiators are the way to go if you have the space in the case to play with. Which case were you planning on using? Silverstone? Corsair? Surely something windowed to show off all your efforts.
Related resources
a c 324 K Overclocking
June 4, 2012 4:28:13 AM

Quote:
stay away from nickel period, It doesn't play well with copper and brass.


Actually, nickel is pretty good with copper/brass in your normal loop- just that EK's nickel plated blocks don't fare as well as others for some reason and corrode.

What you absolutely want to avoid at all costs is aluminum being in your loop.
June 4, 2012 6:36:58 AM

Pushing a 3930K to 5ghz is going to be a bit of lucky dip weather you can do it with sane voltage or not.
Will a 240 and a 360 be enough for the everything specially with 3 GPU's , If you plan on overclocking them it my not be enough.
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 4, 2012 8:45:02 AM

**I would avoid EK nickel like I owed it money**,
EK Nickel specifically, not any nickel, EK Nickel I have a few nickel fittings in my own loop with no issues

**What you absolutely want to avoid at all costs is aluminum being in your loop*
+1

**Will a 240 and a 360 be enough for the everything specially with 3 GPU's , If you plan on overclocking them it my not be enough**
this is part of what I wanted Op to suss out for himself using the info in the sticky,

and the 5GHz Oc'ing part should really be explored in its own thread, it will garner plenty of responses in its own right, although for 5GHz I would prefer a SB chip
Moto
June 4, 2012 11:38:48 AM

**Pushing a 3930K to 5ghz is going to be a bit of lucky dip weather you can do it with sane voltage or not.
Will a 240 and a 360 be enough for the everything specially with 3 GPU's , If you plan on overclocking them it my not be enough.**

Well actually I have a 480, 360, 240, and a 140 Rad. Also I would just like to get close to 5ghz. if I didn't,4.4 would be good
June 4, 2012 11:46:03 AM

Ok so EK nickel is a no, but EK's copper blocks are still good?
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 4, 2012 12:26:27 PM

Yup, I modded two of their Vga Hf supremes onto my own cards,
great blocks at a good price, don't forget some heatsinks for your Vram though, and depending on your card, mosfets too
And with that kind of radspace, you are a man after my own Rig hehe
Moto
June 4, 2012 12:29:12 PM

tinmann said:
Motopsychojdn's right on all points, stay away from nickel period, It doesn't play well with copper and brass. I'd give the XSPC Raystorm cpu block a look. Just check out the reviews. It comes with blue led's but you can easily change those to the color of your choosing. Also the XSPC RX line of radiator are some of the best on the market. Thick low fpi radiators are the way to go if you have the space in the case to play with. Which case were you planning on using? Silverstone? Corsair? Surely something windowed to show off all your efforts.

So thicker low fpi rads are better if you have more room? If so I'm guessing thickish high fpi rads are better if your limited for space?
June 4, 2012 12:33:06 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
Yup, I modded two of their Vga Hf supremes onto my own cards,
great blocks at a good price, don't forget some heatsinks for your Vram though, and depending on your card, mosfets too
And with that kind of radspace, you are a man after my own Rig hehe
Moto

I wouldn't need to buy the separate heat sinks if I bought the full block right?
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 4, 2012 12:36:32 PM

That is correct but you will need to find out if your card is reference pcb, if it is and the fullcover is for reference cards, then you are good to go,
one reason we use uni's though is that if you swap your gfx cards, you can re-use them instead of having to shell out another £100 for a new fullcover block for the new cards
and thicker low fpi rads allow you to use slower fans, means a quieter rig overall, but some folks don't have room for large rads and aren't open to the modding side just yet :) 
external mounted rads and radboxes open up a whole new park for your loop though
Moto
June 4, 2012 1:33:55 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
That is correct but you will need to find out if your card is reference pcb, if it is and the fullcover is for reference cards, then you are good to go,
one reason we use uni's though is that if you swap your gfx cards, you can re-use them instead of having to shell out another £100 for a new fullcover block for the new cards
and thicker low fpi rads allow you to use slower fans, means a quieter rig overall, but some folks don't have room for large rads and aren't open to the modding side just yet :) 
external mounted rads and radboxes open up a whole new park for your loop though
Moto

Mmhmmmm, but will the ram heat sinks and such be able to be transferred onto the newer GPU?
Also the rads I choose has 11 fpi. So I think I should will do for the scythe fans I have choosen. Oh and I don't think it is necessary to mod or add outer rads to my setup as my current puts me at 9x 120 and 1x 140 :sol: 
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 4, 2012 7:24:48 PM

Ramsinks are cheap enough to throw/leave on the cards, I think I paid a fiver plus postage for 16?
at 11Fpi you can afford slower fans, good thing because that means quieter set up overall,
and I didn't mean you modding, I just meant a lot of folks aren't up for it :) 
Moto
June 4, 2012 10:09:33 PM

Mmmmm, the positives to the full block are ?easyiness? And it's visually appealing but If I switch cards I have to buy another cooler as opposed to using the uni already on. Mmmm, while I decide on that.... What about they built in water cooling cards (not the entire closed loop card just a pre made full block on a card)
a c 324 K Overclocking
June 4, 2012 10:41:59 PM

Swiftech makes universal full-cover heatsinks for most reference cards to work with the MCW60/80/82 water blocks:

(note: I didn't see any for GTX 680's yet; 590 ex. below)
http://www.swiftech.com/gtx580-hs.aspx
June 5, 2012 12:51:58 AM

Ah, so you would change out the heat sink, if I upgraded at one point? And keep the water block to add to the new card and new heatsink?
a c 324 K Overclocking
June 5, 2012 4:40:07 AM

Yes, exactly. You would then need a new full-cover heatsink for the new card and possibly a new block mount (depending on mount).
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 5, 2012 11:47:03 AM

Those have been o.o.s. since release, almost as difficult to find as the 690's are :) 
Moto
June 5, 2012 12:59:06 PM

Haha, well if I did get a hand, ON 3!!... Are the "pre blocked" cards good?
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 5, 2012 1:07:01 PM

I'd prefer to convert a card myself but the pre-blocked editions open up W/c to the less brave so from a W/c standpoint its good
as for performance, I'd suggest googling the card to see what it can do
Moto
June 5, 2012 2:10:19 PM

Mhmm, well I will definitely have to think about my GPU cooling.... But on the other hand I remember reading something about trying to avoid using an excess amount of 45 degree and 90 degree bends or adapters is this true?
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 5, 2012 2:16:22 PM

An excess of yes, but tubing is flexible anyhow, I have several 90's in my loop because there is no other way, but if you design the loop 'properly' you can minimise angle usage
Moto
June 5, 2012 2:49:03 PM

Oh and can you add a 90 in the middle of a tube (the 90 degree bend is just floating in-between to tubes)
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 5, 2012 2:51:09 PM

You can do, but depending on the length of the run, it may just flex naturally, negating the need for the fitting,
and both tubes need to be held with clamps or cable ties to prevent slipping off,
heres mine, I used two to join the gfx cards together at the back, and one off my Cpu line to the external radbox,



Moto
June 5, 2012 2:54:48 PM

Mmm. I have drawn a ruff diagram of planned setup, but I cannot figure out how to paste or move it to the thread, do you know how? I think it may help with what I'm dealing with.
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 5, 2012 2:58:44 PM

Upload the Jpeg to photobucket or imageshack and then post the img link or direct link in the thread,
Moto
June 6, 2012 1:09:10 AM

This is my loop drawing! (not to scale)


As you can see near the top right there is an imposible bend toward the 480 Rad. And it might be a little cluttered around the cpu.
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 6, 2012 2:25:47 AM

A little?
I'll make some sense of this when I get home to the Pc, but that there is one complicated, messy and very unworkable loop :-)
Moto
June 6, 2012 2:37:16 AM

:lol:  Yah it is def. a project!
June 6, 2012 3:15:47 AM

I don't see tubing going to the 240 on the bottom. That's an expensive case weight.
a c 324 K Overclocking
June 6, 2012 4:52:37 AM

Why such a large res?

What case are you planning on putting this all in? Four internal radiators, one being a 480, one a 360 and then a 120 and 240? You really don't need all that...what are the blocks around the CPU block?
June 6, 2012 11:42:37 AM

The azza fusion 4000, which can hold any sized desktop motherboard, and an entire mini Itx system. I currently am using the mini itx build in the top compartment. If I did not use the mini itx section I could fit another 480 rad on top of what I have designed now. Every radiator spot I could fit has been populated to the maximum.

The other blocks are the north bridge/south bridge, MOSFET, CPU, and the ram blocks. The order goes

Pump>240 Rad>GPU's>360 Rad>Ram 1>Ram 2>NB/SB> MOSFET>120 Rad>CPU> 480 Rad>Res>Pump
June 6, 2012 1:49:45 PM

cyansnow said:
I don't see tubing going to the 240 on the bottom. That's an expensive case weight.

The 240 Rad is directly after the pump.
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2012 3:24:26 PM

firecharm2 said:
Ok well what about this option?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Which is an "Out of stock" gtx 680 by EVGA.


I have found this to be the case on a lot of video cards blocks in the years that I have been doing this I have learned one thing about video cards what is best on the market today may not be in 6 weeks from now and they only really build blocks for the cards that last how to explain that I have a 5850 ati card when it first came out to they said that blocks existed for it but today you cannot find them at all if I had bought the 5870 instead finding a block would not be a problem so even though it may seem counterproductive I wait before I buy a video card today to see if they are good enough for more than just one run of production before I buy. I just bought two GTX 480's and the blocks to match with no problem there not new cards but the parts I wonted for them actually existed so I bought them. so I guess what I am saying is that in water cooling sometimes you have wait to really get what you want
June 6, 2012 5:09:25 PM

toolmaker_03 said:
I have found this to be the case on a lot of video cards blocks in the years that I have been doing this I have learned one thing about video cards what is best on the market today may not be in 6 weeks from now and they only really build blocks for the cards that last how to explain that I have a 5850 ati card when it first came out to they said that blocks existed for it but today you cannot find them at all if I had bought the 5870 instead finding a block would not be a problem so even though it may seem counterproductive I wait before I buy a video card today to see if they are good enough for more than just one run of production before I buy. I just bought two GTX 480's and the blocks to match with no problem there not new cards but the parts I wonted for them actually existed so I bought them. so I guess what I am saying is that in water cooling sometimes you have wait to really get what you want

I see exactly what your getting at. I never really thought about that! But this computer is going to start getting put together after i get a new car. So by that time i think ill be able to see if the blocks and cards are still "future proof" ;) 
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 6, 2012 6:56:58 PM

**so I guess what I am saying is that in water cooling sometimes you have wait to really get what you want**

Or make it :) 

Ok, Sorry for delay, slept all day today hehe,

Option one as I see it,
Firstly I would run the Cpu and gfx on a separate loop, and the Mobo's blocks and ram on another smaller loop,
grab a D5 dual loop bayres to feed both loops but your Cpu and Gpu will not be affected by the restriction of the Mobo blocks,

Option Two,
build a very high pressure loop that can force the water through everything fast enough,
DDC pumps have a high head rating and two in series should be more than enough to keep that going, but you will have to ensure your connections are sealed like bankvaults,

Option three,
go for a simpler Cpu/Gpu only loop, ram runs cool these days and doesn't 'need' cooling and Nb/Sb/Mosfet blocks are very restrictive to a loop,
although if its a 'because I can' loop then obviously we find ways to accomodate the extra issues :) 
I'm glad theres a timescale here of 'after the car comes' because that allows you to research and learn before you start spending :) 
If I was building this for myself, I'd take option three,
for a showcase option one (gets built for a couple of weeks then strippped)
building for a client option one or two depending on how insistent they were :p 
Moto
June 6, 2012 7:22:08 PM

As for this computer i think i like option 1 the best, as you you said im doing because i can, not because it gives a super advantage over normal air cooling. On my next build with a lot less space, I would probably go with option 3.

Ok so i am going to run my liquid cooling off two loops.... or what about a split single loop?
a c 190 K Overclocking
June 6, 2012 7:56:10 PM

Splitting a single loop will damage flow horrendously in your case, we need to preserve pressure/flowrate here
Two loops from one shared res is as far as I would compromise anything with all those blocks
I would look at a DDC for the Mobo's loop and a mcp655 pump for the cards and Cpu, the 655b is a variable speed so you can lower it if necessary, the DDC's have great head ratings so could handle the small mobo blocks well,
the 240 should handle the Mobo's blocks ok, and the rest of the rads can be overkill for the Gpu/Cpu duties,
more rad equals better delta at lower fanspeeds aka quiet :) 
if the other I-Tx is staying in there, why not put a block on that too?
I-Tx Cpu> Atx Mobo blocks>360 rad>res>Pump
then
Res>Pump>Gpu x3>Cpu>Rest of Rads>Return to res
if the res is shared it will drop pressure in one loop resulting in a slower flow and worse cooling than otherwise would be possible, but if its two separate resses in one like the http://jab-tech.com/EK-Bay-Spin-Reservoir-Dual-Loop-Ple...
then no flowrate issues can arise to affect the other loop
Moto
a b K Overclocking
June 6, 2012 8:43:28 PM

if you would like to take a look at the build I am on now, look at page 5 and you will see that I have come to the same conclusion as to how to build my 2 loops on my system but if you have the ability to check the flow rate of your components to see how they will work together that would be the best option I found that the mosfets block I have flows better than all the other blocks and the rads I have are the most restrictive part on the loop but different components will have different flows through them

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/page-274855_29_200.ht...

here is the link to that build
June 8, 2012 1:45:31 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
Splitting a single loop will damage flow horrendously in your case, we need to preserve pressure/flowrate here
Two loops from one shared res is as far as I would compromise anything with all those blocks
I would look at a DDC for the Mobo's loop and a mcp655 pump for the cards and Cpu, the 655b is a variable speed so you can lower it if necessary, the DDC's have great head ratings so could handle the small mobo blocks well,
the 240 should handle the Mobo's blocks ok, and the rest of the rads can be overkill for the Gpu/Cpu duties,
more rad equals better delta at lower fanspeeds aka quiet :) 
if the other I-Tx is staying in there, why not put a block on that too?
I-Tx Cpu> Atx Mobo blocks>360 rad>res>Pump
then
Res>Pump>Gpu x3>Cpu>Rest of Rads>Return to res
if the res is shared it will drop pressure in one loop resulting in a slower flow and worse cooling than otherwise would be possible, but if its two separate resses in one like the http://jab-tech.com/EK-Bay-Spin-Reservoir-Dual-Loop-Ple...
then no flowrate issues can arise to affect the other loop
Moto

I definitly like the idea of incorporating the mini tix into the loop. also would having all t5he blocks together be the best approach. Wont the heat build up after each one?
Another problem i see with adding the mini itx, is i would have to wrap it around the 360 Rad.
The pump placement is ideal?
i like the dual Res. but is the same thing but a differnt option, if not i still like the bay mount.
http://www.ekwb.com/shop/pumps-and-accessories/pumps-ac...
!