[Solved] The best AGP Video card for an old P4 3 Ghz

Hi everyone. I want to decide about what AGP card to buy, since my current XFX nVidia Geforce 7600GT is kinda dead, it freezes Windows XP every 2 minutes (with the motherboard videocard I have no problems, but I can't play any games like Fallout 3 and using the Adobe suit is now sluggish :??: )

Mi PC is old (I know):
The Processor is a Pentium 4 3.0 Ghz
The Motherboard is the Intel D865GBF with 800 MHz of front side bus.
The RAM is 4 GB of DDR400
The Power Supply is of 450 Watts (kinda new, bought it 6 months ago)

I just want to replace my XFX 7600GT with a similar of better card (if, the new AGP card can be equal or better than the current one). I know I could assemble a new better computer with PCIe but I want to keep the current PC (i think it has almost 6 or 7 years now :na: ). I plan to assemble a new gaming PC in a near future, but that will cost more than $100.

I only can buy it at Amazon (other sites don't accept credit cards from other countries). I've seen these 2 HIS AGP graphic cards:

HIS Radeon HD 4650 (~$105)
HIS page | Amazon Page

HIS Radeon HD 3650 (~$75)
HIS page | Amazon Page

I know that the 4650 is the best of the two with DDR3 and better clock speeds, but I'm not sure if the old components of my PC can be a bottleneck for the card. I think that the 3650 is kinda better than my old card, but it doesn't have DDR3 (like my 7600GT). There's also a HD 3850 but I can't add it to my PC because the case is not that big and that video card is longer.

I want to know what is the best for the old pc parts I have. If you think both cards are to much for my computer, if you recommend me one (please), it has to be one at least equal to the XFX 7600GT.

Thanks a lot in advance! Waiting for some interesting answers.

Message edited by javoec on 12-12-2009 at 03:01:12 AM

Reply to javoec

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814102730

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------------------------------ - ASUS Rampage Formula - Intel Core2Quad Q9650 @ 3.6GHz - MSI GTX 460 1GB - NZXT Phantom 410 white - Corsair TX750 - G.Skill 4GB DDR2-800 - WD Caviar Black 640 GB 32-meg cache - OCZ 30-GB SSD - Hyper 212+
Reply to jonpaul37

jonpaul37 wrote :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814102730

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have to check if i can put that card in my case, since is very crowded right now. The HD3850 is about 4 in (10 cm) longer than the 4650 or the 3650.

I've read somewhere else that I need a P4 of 3.4 Ghz or better processor in order to handle the HD3850...

Reply to javoec

not true, you'll need a P4 3.4 or better to fully take advantage of the 3850, but it's not necessary due to 2 reasons.

1. you can always OC the P4 you have right now by just simply bumping the FSB a little bit. (even with stock heatsink)

2. the difference between a P4 3.4 running a 3850 and a P4 3.0 running a 3850 is very low, maybe 4% tops?

Here is an actual review from a user on Newegg: while it may prove that it is a bottleneck for the P4 3.0, having a P4 3.4 would not make a noticeable difference.

Pros: Easy install. Windows 7 support.
AGP 8X for older systems.
_FAST!!!_

Cons: Need to upgrade my 250watt PSU.
I picked up an Antec EarthWatts 430, which I am also happy with.

Card is longer that I expected, but still fit nicely in the case.

Other Thoughts: I have a Dell Dimension 4600
P4 3GHz with HT, 800MHz FSB with 2GB RAM. I've had this system for 6 years

I was able to upgrade to Windows 7 after installing this card (and a new sound card). Otherwise, I was stuck with XP.

Driver install was excellent.
My windows experience scores are :
CPU: 4.2
RAM: 4.8
Graphics: 7.0
Gaming : 7.0
HD : 5.9

It is clear that the CPU is now the bottleneck, but I am very happy. this system has been given a few more years of life, at least!

Message edited by jonpaul37 on 12-11-2009 at 10:41:11 PM

------------------------------ - ASUS Rampage Formula - Intel Core2Quad Q9650 @ 3.6GHz - MSI GTX 460 1GB - NZXT Phantom 410 white - Corsair TX750 - G.Skill 4GB DDR2-800 - WD Caviar Black 640 GB 32-meg cache - OCZ 30-GB SSD - Hyper 212+
Reply to jonpaul37

Definitely go for the 3850 if you have the right power cables; it's the best AGP card on the market. However, you need either an 8-pin PCIe power connector or a 6+2 pin PCIe connector, and not all power supplies have one. It does look like your PSU can provide the wattage to handle it, though.

If the 3850 won't work, the 4670 is the one to get, not the 4650. The 4670 is the one with DDR3; the 4650 uses DDR2.

Although honestly, any one of those three cards will put you in roughly the same ballpark -- which is to say, being able to play today's low-to-moderate intensity games OK, but not powerful enough to handle the really demanding ones.

Message edited by capt_taco on 12-11-2009 at 10:55:40 PM

Reply to capt_taco

@ Javoec: The HD3850 is also a power hungry card, I suspect your PSU will be an older type with high outputs on the +3.3 and 5v lines (35-45 amps)and less on the +12v line. This is importaint because the HD3850 will draw most of its power from the +12v line and if the PSU is old it may not have enough output to drive the faster card. Also, as a PSU gets older, it looses output, further reducing the critical +12v amperage available.
With this in mind, I would suggest the HD4650 as your best option, but look for the DDR3 version, the DDR2 cards are somewhat slower.
The HD4670 is a viable option, but watch the price and bear in mind the performance gains will be small over a HD4650 with DDR3 memory because your CPU will be the limiting factor.

Message edited by coozie7 on 12-11-2009 at 10:58:48 PM

Reply to coozie7

If you can find the ATI HIS Radeon 3850 512MB GDDR3 256bit ICEQ AGP video card that would be a good fit, I have it for my wife computer and I overclocked it as well. :hello:

Reply to Keiki646

blaarrgg P4, AGP, DDR1 - id sell it all off and get even a Celeron E3200 rig - waayyyy quicker

------------------------------ i7-2600k@4.6 // Noctua DH14 // ASUS P8P67 Pro // 16gb Ram
Intel 120gb SSD + 1tb WD // 2xGTX570 SLI // Corsair 750w // 2xE900F HD Tuners
(( Using car audio equipment for my sound system - 700w RMS ))
Reply to apache_lives

The 4670 would be a better option for you since it probably would be fine with your current PSU, but the Radeon 3850 may need a better one unless your PSU was of rather good quality (take into account capacitor aging and all). I see you already mentioned that you probably can't fit a 3850 into your case anyway .

The 3650 doesn't use much power, and in your system it would only be a little slower than if you had a 4670. Because of your CPU, a 4670 wouldn't really offer too much benefit over a 3650. Of course, overclocking your old CPU would certainly change that a little.

The HD4650 option seems to be the best.

Also, if you have "ebay" where you are, I would suggest looking for used Pentium D CPU's. It's better then the Pentium 4 you have. Look for the Pentium D 805, if not, go for the Pentium D 940. If you can get thease for around $30 on ebay, then its a good budget buy.

I still feel kinda sorry for you, having to ditch out $100+ bucks on a AGP card. Is there no auction sites in your country where you could log onto and get it for cheaper perhaps?

Reply to godbrother

Godbrother, it's a socket 478 board, not an LGA 775 board. No Pentium Ds for him.

Thanks a lot for all the replies. With all the information from you people (thanks again!) I've this extra info now:

<----
- I can't use the HD 3850 because
(a) I don't have enough space in the case for a 30 cm (12 in) width video card, and
(b) I don't have neither a 8-pin nor a 6+2 pin PCIe connector (like @capt_taco said).

- My PSU is the Codegen CG-PXA4-3. I don't think is a great quality PSU (mentioned by @megamanx00 in order to run the HD 3850). I know that is a generic one..

- I'll contact HIS in order to confirm that the HIS HD 4650 Fan Native HDMI 1GB (128bit) DDR3 AGP (600Mhz Core/1.3Ghz Memory) has DDR3 indeed (because of the replies of @coozie7 and @capt_taco)

- @capt_taco: I play games but not in max settings and not the latest latest ones. I do like to play in the PC (I don't like consoles), but I'm now a casual player because of my work.

- @apache_lives: I want to keep this PC for casual use in my home. In the near future I'll assemble a better one, but I don't want to have a PC that last only 2 years max. This one is 7 years old and working fine. If I buy another, it has to last long and be fully upgradable, and that costs a some more

- @megamanx00: I haven't thought about overclocking the CPU. If i do that I could take advantage of the HD 4650 or the HD 4670. I'll think about it, thanks for the suggestion!

- @godbrother: I'm in Ecuador, in South America. When I wanted to change my video card the 1st time, I could not find a good AGP card over here, so I managed to get the XFX 7600GT in USA. Right now I can olny choose those models. I've searched MercadoLibre (associated with ebay) and I only founnd lower cards than the geforce 7600GT. Like @megamanx00 said, I can't use a Pentium D, only these
---->

Sorry for the big reply. Is a hard search with all the limits of my CPU and Motherboard.. I don't blame you, I thank you for your answers. I think the HD 3650 is ok for my current PC, unless I overclock the CPU (something that I'm not familiar with), and then I could take advantage of the HD 4650/4670.

So, my question is now:
Is the HD 4650, that cost $30 more, worth that extra money with my current PC? Will I see a difference in games between that and the HD 3650? My guess that I'll not see a big difference, but you go ahead and give your opinion

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Reply to javoec

(probbally off the question here but...)

Even though you've already said it once, I would seriously suggest some sort of an extreme budget upgrade.

Perhaps a LGA775 motherboard with a Pentium D 940 or a E1240 Core 2 duo.

These days on ebay US you can pick up used motherboard/cpu/ram combos for around $50. (bids of course)

If your telling me you have 4GB's of DDR ram, that *** will sell like hot cakes on ebay alone, becuase DDR itself is really expensive.

From there, getting a used 8600GTS (pcie) or even a 8800GT for 60 bucks on ebay! Seriously man, just consider the alternatives before you go ahead and pay $100+ just on a GPU.

If you sell of what you have now, you will probbally make a minimum of 100 bucks right? Add the other 100 you was going to spend on a GPU and you have 200 bucks.

And 200 bucks could build you a semi-decent but budget gaming PC. It's all about ebay Get a used E5200, 2GB DDR2, 8800GT, and a LGA775 motherboard and walla! all under 200 bucks!

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Reply to godbrother

godbrother wrote :

(probbally off the question here but...)

Even though you've already said it once, I would seriously suggest some sort of an extreme budget upgrade.

Perhaps a LGA775 motherboard with a Pentium D 940 or a E1240 Core 2 duo.

These days on ebay US you can pick up used motherboard/cpu/ram combos for around $50. (bids of course)

If your telling me you have 4GB's of DDR ram, that *** will sell like hot cakes on ebay alone, becuase DDR itself is really expensive.

From there, getting a used 8600GTS (pcie) or even a 8800GT for 60 bucks on ebay! Seriously man, just consider the alternatives before you go ahead and pay $100+ just on a GPU.

If you sell of what you have now, you will probbally make a minimum of 100 bucks right? Add the other 100 you was going to spend on a GPU and you have 200 bucks.

And 200 bucks could build you a semi-decent but budget gaming PC. It's all about ebay Get a used E5200, 2GB DDR2, 8800GT, and a LGA775 motherboard and walla! all under 200 bucks!

Is kinda difficult. Computer parts here are more expensive than in other countries , if I buy used stuff on ebay, I'll have to pay shipping, and I'll have to pay 40% of taxes. If I find the parts in my own country, I'll have to pay also more..

A friend of mine is going to bring me the video card over here, that way I don't pay ridiculous taxes :??: (taxes that btw, were added to protect the national industry, but over here, there's no GPU factories)

A budget PC could cost here around 400 - 500 USD with a normal GPU, CPU and motherboard. Over here people don't get rid of their computers to fast (like me)... the best thing to do is donate it to a school with no resources.

BTW, DDR2 price here is high. Around $55 for 2 GB, well, because now DDR3 is becoming the standard. My brother was in China a month ago, over there DDR2 doesn't exists any more...

I do see your point. I was thinking about it a few months back, but I want to build a good PC with good quality stuff and that can be upgradable (like this one was, until now). Spending $300 ($500 - $200 from selling this one) will leave me with only 1 PC, when I can use this one for basic stuff (office, casual gaming, internet, ) and have new one for heavy gaming, video conversion or watching a hd movie (the current one can't handle full HD video). I preffer 1 old PC and 1 great PC (costs more, but is worth it) than only 1 PC that I'll have to discard in a couple of years.

Reply to javoec

You may notice a difference between the 3650 and 4650 is certain cases, but overall probably not. Still, the 4650 (with DDR3) should provide you with a higher bottom speed so games that you can just get by on would seem a little smoother.

javoec wrote :

- I'll contact HIS in order to confirm that the HIS HD 4650 Fan Native HDMI 1GB (128bit) DDR3 AGP (600Mhz Core/1.3Ghz Memory) has DDR3 indeed (because of the replies of @coozie7 and @capt_taco)

Now that is weird. I looked up the card specs, and it looks like they do use DDR3 while all the other 4650s use DDR2. Basically like they built a 4670 and called it a 4650, and raised the price accordingly.

At any rate, I am confident you'll get a lot better experience with either a 4650 or a 4670 -- basically, either one will be the final, max upgrade that you can do on that system, and now it will be the CPU and the bus speed of an AGP slot that limit what you can do.

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Reply to capt_taco

u wont notice a difference between even a 4650 ddr2 and 3850 ... i have a p4 with 3850 agp , and it is bottlenecked heavily . but when i bought it , 4650 hadnt come out otherwise wud have got it instead myself .

Reply to cyberkuberiah

Why is everyone talking about a 3650 and he should go with a 3850 with GDDR3.

HIS Radeon HD 3850 512MB GDDR3 256bit ICEQ AGP is perfect because I do believe that the 4600 series will it not the best fit for a Intel P4.
But the 3850 can work together with the Intel P4 and I just think that if you want to see the true power of any 4600 series and up cards that you need at lease a Dual Core CPU.

With the Intel Pentium 4 and the 3850 card working together it will be a power that Intel P4 should have had a long time ago. But note that the AGP 3850 you have to look for them. They are hard to find. newegg had a few but sold out....but make sure you get the one with ICEQ.

But we all know that the CPU and the bus speed of an AGP slot that limit what you can do. Getting the 4600 series would be a waste of time if you going to be thinking about building a NEW system in the future. AGP cards can come at a price where they can cost more that PCI express 2.0 x16 cards

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Reply to Keiki646

Keiki646 wrote :

Why is everyone talking about a 3650 and he should go with a 3850 with GDDR3

Well, I could search for the HD 3850, but I can't fit that card in my case because of the width of the video card (10 cm or 4 in longer than the others).

capt_taco wrote :

At any rate, I am confident you'll get a lot better experience with either a 4650 or a 4670 -- basically, either one will be the final, max upgrade that you can do on that system, and now it will be the CPU and the bus speed of an AGP slot that limit what you can do.

I'm not sure about that, because I've also read somewhere (like Keiki646 said) that the HD 46xx series work better with a dual core processor. I say some benchmarks and yes, the HD 4650 works way better than the HD 3650, but with a dual core processor.

---

I read this article by Tom's Hardware: Gigabyte's Radeon HD 4650: Are AGP Graphics Still Good Enough? and they used a better processor than mine (Athlon 64 X2 3800+) and the result is a bottleneck with medium to high settings and with big screen resolutions

I believe that the ATI HD 3000 series will work better with old systems (P4, AGP).. but since the HD 3850 width is to big for my 6 months old PC case, I'll go for the HD 3650 (also my PSU is not a great one and the 3850 can kill it )

I think HD 3650 AGP will perform perhaps the same than the 7600GT AGP (please, correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think I'm gonna get better results in games by buying a better AGP card. (the current settings of my old PC are final, I can't and I don't wanna upgrade anything else)

I saw that official drivers are not available for ATI AGP cards and that I shoud use the ones from the manufacturer site. That, and using Windows XP, I just hope I'll not find any problems installing the card.

Thanks for all the replies, is great to see many people helping one out!

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Reply to javoec

Best answer

javoec wrote :

I'm not sure about that, because I've also read somewhere (like Keiki646 said) that the HD 46xx series work better with a dual core processor. I say some benchmarks and yes, the HD 4650 works way better than the HD 3650, but with a dual core processor.

Sorry, what I meant was more like: With any of those cards (4650, 4670, 3850) you're basically going to get the same results -- the ability to be passable for some modern games, with the limiting factor being your CPU.

You're not going to be worse off with a 46xx than a 3650 ... the risk you run is that the CPU bottleneck is below the level of the 3650, and you get the same performance with either card (which means you wasted $20 or $30). If the CPU bottleneck is somewhere between the 3650 and 4650, you will get better performance with a 46XX. Hard to say EXACTLY where the bottleneck is on your machine. If it was my system, I'd just say "what the hell" and get the 46xx to be sure I was getting the most out of it, because the extra $30 is not going to send me to the poorhouse. Basically, you should be happy with any of those cards.

Honestly, neither the 3xxx or the 46xx cards we're talking about are going to be a huge performance upgrade over your original 7600GT. The big difference, though, is that they support DirectX 10.1, while I think the 7600GT only supported DirectX 9. So you will be compatible with more of the modern games, and probably see better results on games that support both DX versions.

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Reply to capt_taco

capt_taco wrote :

Sorry, what I meant was more like: With any of those cards (4650, 4670, 3850) you're basically going to get the same results -- the ability to be passable for some modern games, with the limiting factor being your CPU.

You're not going to be worse off with a 46xx than a 3650 ... the risk you run is that the CPU bottleneck is below the level of the 3650, and you get the same performance with either card (which means you wasted $20 or $30). If the CPU bottleneck is somewhere between the 3650 and 4650, you will get better performance with a 46XX. Hard to say EXACTLY where the bottleneck is on your machine. If it was my system, I'd just say "what the hell" and get the 46xx to be sure I was getting the most out of it, because the extra $30 is not going to send me to the poorhouse. Basically, you should be happy with any of those cards.

Honestly, neither the 3xxx or the 46xx cards we're talking about are going to be a huge performance upgrade over your original 7600GT. The big difference, though, is that they support DirectX 10.1, while I think the 7600GT only supported DirectX 9. So you will be compatible with more of the modern games, and probably see better results on games that support both DX versions.

Thanks a lot!
Well, I'll see if I can buy the HIS HD 4650 because the box is bigger than the HIS HD 3650 and I don't want to bother my friend because she has to come back here with a bigger box :na:

Reply to javoec

After reading many of the posts here I am seeing alot of people suggesting the HD3850 over the HD4670 and I can honestly say as an owner of both cards the HIS HD4670 IceQ 1GB AGP X8 will and does out perform the Sapphire HD3850 512MB AGP X8. Though the benchmarks arent much to get excited over the RWS are truely what to look for, playing COD4 and CODMW2 on max settings under the 3850 I was usually running 10-90fps with the average being 23fps, under the HIS 4670 however I am now running 25-210fps with the average being 42.5fps which is mostly due to the new GPU but it also has alot to do with the 128bit bus lines which is commonly supported by AGP. Out of all of the current and past AGP cards I would have to say that hands down the HIS HD4670 IceQ 1GB would be the way to go, though it does have its issues like most of the AGP cards do now it is clearly the performer of the AGP cards and unlike some of the different versions of the 3850 I have a feeling it will last alot longer than 1-2 years due to the low heat it produces as well...dont let me forget to mention it also uses a LOT less power than a 3850 (they require a 500W PSU with 28Amps on the 12V rail).

~S

Reply to EvilScarecroW

javoec wrote :

Well, I could search for the HD 3850, but I can't fit that card in my case because of the width of the video card (10 cm or 4 in longer than the others).
I'm not sure about that, because I've also read somewhere (like Keiki646 said) that the HD 46xx series work better with a dual core processor. I say some benchmarks and yes, the HD 4650 works way better than the HD 3650, but with a dual core processor.

---

I read this article by Tom's Hardware: Gigabyte's Radeon HD 4650: Are AGP Graphics Still Good Enough? and they used a better processor than mine (Athlon 64 X2 3800+) and the result is a bottleneck with medium to high settings and with big screen resolutions

I believe that the ATI HD 3000 series will work better with old systems (P4, AGP).. but since the HD 3850 width is to big for my 6 months old PC case, I'll go for the HD 3650 (also my PSU is not a great one and the 3850 can kill it )

I think HD 3650 AGP will perform perhaps the same than the 7600GT AGP (please, correct me if I'm wrong). I don't think I'm gonna get better results in games by buying a better AGP card. (the current settings of my old PC are final, I can't and I don't wanna upgrade anything else)

I saw that official drivers are not available for ATI AGP cards and that I shoud use the ones from the manufacturer site. That, and using Windows XP, I just hope I'll not find any problems installing the card.

Thanks for all the replies, is great to see many people helping one out!

You do have a ATX MID Case , small, hmmm

Reply to Keiki646

Put it like this my friend
You have a Intel 478 socket motherboard with DDR memory
Any of the newest card that are AGP would still not show you any of the true performance due the the the DDR memory as well.
So it's just not the CPU that you have to take in count of but you have to worry about the whole system work together in order to witness the best performance for gaming.

Now your the motherboard might have a Burn-in-Mode where you can overclock the CPU by 4% and that is how far you can go with it.
You have the another option to do the same for the memory but you would have to get an hand on some High Performance and Gaming memory.
The type of memory that I am talking about would have to be 400MHZ or 500MHZ but you'll have a good timing rate but still DDR. Now about your Intel 865G Extreme Graphics 2 Chipset, That also has to be accounted
for. Yes It's part of the system to make the CPU, Memory and GPU of the Video card work on a perfect sync.

You have to take these in a accounted as well. To some gaming or techs it's important..

Well I hope I made you understand these things better...I know because I had to do the game for my wife computer but she is running a Intel Pentium 4. I upgraded every part in the system. Even Heatsink.

Message edited by Keiki646 on 12-20-2009 at 05:14:50 PM

Reply to Keiki646

i had a pentium 4 before and jumped to an i5 ... i could buy a beefy psu and 3850agp (had 6600gt on it ) , but thank god i did NOT do that , after reading how single cores suck unless ure playing games that are at least 2 years old .

Message edited by cyberkuberiah on 12-20-2009 at 07:36:22 PM

Reply to cyberkuberiah

@Keiki646: Thanks for the explanation. My objetive is not to make the games look better, but to have the same results than with the 7600GT. I know that there's a lot of limitations with every part of my PC, that's why I chose the HD 3650, because is kinda cheaper and I think I'll not see a lot of change with a HD 4650 unless, like you say, I get better RAM and overclock the CPU, and I don't wanna spend more money in this old PC.

@cyberkuberiah: Well, since I don't wanna spend more money in this old PC, I think that the HD 3650 is the best like a final replacement to the XFX 7600GT. My plan is to build a new PC when I can.

--

Interesting. When the XFX 7600GT started to fail, I contacted XFX Support. They sent me a new fan with no questions and no charge (to Ecuador, South America). I received the fan yesterday, changed it, and the video card was working fine, and it was now visible in the HWMonitor utility, I even played Fallout 3, but that was yesterday.. today I switched on the PC and the Windows XP Users screen never appeared. I can only see a black screen with the mouse pointer, and the system frozen. Using the bundled Intel video card, no issues.

I tested the AGP port with a lot older nVidia FX 5200 and Windows XP worked just fine.. no frozen issues or anything unusual. I tested both cards with the Video Card Stability Test, the FX 5200 and it was working fine, 20 to 35 minutes..
I made that test with the 7600GT + the older fan, and the the system was frozen in only 5 minutes. Then I tested the card with the new fan yesterday, and it worked.. but today is just not working again..

If I get the HD 3650 and I have the same problem, I wasted $70 bucks if I can not sell the card here (but I could sell it... :sweat: ) If the new card works fine, I don't know what really happened with the XFX 7600GT..

Reply to javoec

the 3650 is not faster than the 7600gt , but the 4650 is .... if ure not buying a new pc , i would actually recommend this instead .... with the 3650 u'll not see much improvement ... that 4650 is good , it has gddr3 ... even if ure cpu limited , ull be able to increase graphics quality settings or resolution with the 4650 ... dont worry , u wont be dissappointed . $30 difference is not much for a final video card upgrade .

Reply to cyberkuberiah

if i had not bought i5 , i would have gone for that psu+3850 , it would have allowed me to play a bit older games or with reduced physics , but the 3d horsepower would have allowed me to increase image quality settings .. i knew the 3650 was there , but i personally would not have gone for it ... the 4650 especially with ddr3 is only a bit slower than 3850 ...

Reply to cyberkuberiah

i have the same setup as you more or less and i have to tell you the best graphic card for your macine is the ASUS AH4650 IT ROCKS!AND IM ONLY USING 2 GIGS OF RAM! it can play anything i throw at it,ASSAINS CREED BROTHERS IN ARMS HELLS HIGHWAY.MODERN WARFARE 2.CRYSIS !YOU NAME IT!ITS A VERY VERY GOOD CARD!TRUST ME YOU WONT BE DISSAPOINTED.AND ITS UNDER A £70 POUNDS WHICH I THINK IS ABOUT 100 BUCKS

Reply to patsampo

Sorry to say, but I just e-waste recycled my perfectly good Gainward Golden Sample 7800GS+, which is uses a 7900GT chip. For at least a couple years, that was the fastest AGP card available. I was able to play Dragon Age, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Bioshock with no problems on a Pentium 4 system.

Reply to matto17secs