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ALGAE. ugh

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June 10, 2012 5:52:25 AM

hey guys im about to go on my second time cleaning my loop out because of algae within about a month.
i was wondering if my uv cathodes would be producing the algae because iv put dead water and a kill coil in and te algae is still growing. i need to find out whats causing the growth first!

btw, the algae is whiting not green. and all my components are copper so im sure it cant be corrosion.

More about : algae ugh

a c 150 K Overclocking
June 10, 2012 6:05:05 AM

More info please!
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June 10, 2012 6:17:42 AM

What do you need to know?
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a c 150 K Overclocking
June 10, 2012 7:00:33 AM

Everything! Parts, blocks, etc.!
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a b K Overclocking
June 10, 2012 7:03:43 AM



well I have been water cooling for years and have had builds with this issue not my own but friends that have run water so here is what I would do first I would clean the system with a 50% Listerine 50% distilled water mix then I would add about 3 drops of this HTH super extended algae guard to the loop it is a copper base solution and I believe the only one HTH makes that is copper based so it won't hurt the loop components since your not having a issue with corrosion I won't bother explaining what the water wetter is for.
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June 10, 2012 7:27:52 AM

amuffin said:
Everything! Parts, blocks, etc.!

Ok my components are 2 x 560 ti in sli, and an i5 2500k intel processor. That is all thats being cooled. The loop is based off of a xspc 360 kit. I added another moola nice 360 copper radiator with yate loon fans. I also added two swiftech universal water blocks with some vram heatsinks. I have distilled water running through primoflex lrt uv tubing with some fittings and angled fittings. I also have 2 cold cathodes and the yate loon fan leds in the case.
The case before was not in direct sunlight, but my room had sunlight coming through the windows in the afternoon, so i switched the side panels so where there was a window, there isnt one anymore, and theres no way for light to get in. I did this right after my firet clean of the system which was probably about 3 weeks ago, and then i started to see algae after 1 week and i even replaced the tubing and got a kill coil. The problem is still getting worse.
I just bought a filter for free floating debris, so hopefully when i install that after this next clean, that will catch anything thqt is in my water.

Sorry for any mistakes, my ipad does that :pfff: 
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June 10, 2012 7:30:11 AM

toolmaker_03 said:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5831/project3002.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/697/project3003.jpg
well I have been water cooling for years and have had builds with this issue not my own but friends that have run water so here is what I would do first I would clean the system with a 50% Listerine 50% distilled water mix then I would add about 3 drops of this HTH super extended algae guard to the loop it is a copper base solution and I believe the only one HTH makes that is copper based so it won't hurt the loop components since your not having a issue with corrosion I won't bother explaining what the water wetter is for.

Thanks toolmaker! This seems like very promising advice. Are you implying that i should also clean out my system? Or just flush it with this solution you suggested? Because im pretty sure i have stuff in my water blocks
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a b K Overclocking
June 10, 2012 7:41:59 AM

well if you run the 50/50 mix in your system for a couple of hours it will kill the algae then flush and fill with distilled water, if you put 6 drops of the algae guard in for 24 hours it will continue to break down the reaming dead material left in the system so you can flush it out of the system once more and fill it with distilled water and 3 drops of the algae guard of course check the system every couple of weeks thereafter for a month or so but it should not return.
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June 10, 2012 7:59:27 AM

toolmaker_03 said:
well if you run the 50/50 mix in your system for a couple of hours it will kill the algae then flush and fill with distilled water, if you put 6 drops of the algae guard in for 24 hours it will continue to break down the reaming dead material left in the system so you can flush it out of the system once more and fill it with distilled water and 3 drops of the algae guard of course check the system every couple of weeks thereafter for a month or so but it should not return.

So no more cleaning??!!! :pt1cable: 
Do you ever clean your system?
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a b K Overclocking
June 10, 2012 8:07:49 AM

no, I have never had to, nor have I ever needed to, break a block open for any reason. neither have I ever done so to any system I have ever worked on. but I have never had the displeasure of cleaning a system that has had dye added to it either, the dye will literally bake to the interior walls of the blocks that's really hard to clean.
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June 10, 2012 8:27:21 AM

Wow im glad you posted in here haha well ill purchase the things i need to tomorrow and let you know how it all goes when i flush etc. when you flush, how much water do you use? And have you ever had an algae problem that this procedure actually worked with? Or do you just go through this process regularly without aglae present?
Oh, and can i get both of these items at, say, walmart?
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a b K Overclocking
June 10, 2012 2:55:41 PM

maybe the algae guard and listerine at walmart

yes i have and it did work but i used antifreeze back then.
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June 10, 2012 5:01:04 PM

Walmart had no hth but they had something called algicide liquid from a company called aqua chem, so i got that. Would it suffice?
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a b K Overclocking
June 10, 2012 5:12:08 PM

No!!!, I use the HTH super extended guard because of it chemical make up the main component in it is copper so this won't hurt your loop other pool chemicals are corrosive to the computer loop system.

if you can't find it go and get some antifreeze 50/50 and dilute it to a 80/20 mix run it in the system for a week and drain it that will give you some time to find some of the HTH super extended guard otherwise stick with the antifreeze I have run it in my system for years with no problems.
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June 10, 2012 5:18:38 PM

toolmaker_03 said:
No!!!, I use the HTH super extended guard because of it chemical make up the main component in it is copper so this won't hurt your loop other pool chemicals are corrosive to the computer loop system.

haha ok! Well i also found some fish tank algaecide that was composed of a copper base...i wouild need to order hth in order to get it, i cant find it anywhere
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a b K Overclocking
June 10, 2012 5:33:02 PM

send a pic of the ingredients so i can see what it is made of and i can tell you if it is ok or safe for a loop.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
June 11, 2012 3:58:43 AM

Uv cathodes won't contribute to growth, it kills bacteria, I think you just didn't clean the loop properly last time,
Live and learn hehe, but Tools advice here is sound, go with that if you are happy using chems in your loop
Moto
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June 11, 2012 4:13:22 AM

Yeah thats what im going eith. And thanks. Im still working on getting a copper based algaecide, the one i saw at walmart were tablets.
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June 11, 2012 6:03:37 PM

toolmaker_03 said:
send a pic of the ingredients so i can see what it is made of and i can tell you if it is ok or safe for a loop.

Hey so I just purchased some stuff at a local pool store called sea klear 90 day algae prevention and remover. The ingredients are:
ACTIVE INGREDIENT
Copper sulfate pentahydrate...............................11.8%
Inert (or others) ingredients................................88.2%
Total.........................................................................100%
[Copper as elemental 3.0%]
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June 11, 2012 6:47:39 PM

Also toolmaker, are you saying to add the 6 drops WHILE it is being flushed with the listerine solution? Or only with distilled water after you flush the listerine out?
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a c 190 K Overclocking
June 11, 2012 6:52:57 PM

No, the six drops would go into the final fill, so its in there while you are running day to day, so flush with listerine etc, then when you are ready to fill and go play games, add the drops to the water thats going to stay in there
Moto
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a b K Overclocking
June 11, 2012 8:40:06 PM

Copper sulfate pentahydrate,

this is a acid and will be corrosive to your water loop.

copper ethanolamine complex,

this is a base and will not be corrosive to your water loop.

you can still use the copper sulfate to break down the dead algae but flush it out of your system after 24 hours
please do not leave in your system for long periods of time.


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June 11, 2012 11:40:15 PM

Damnit! That was one of my two options and I went with the cheaper of the two! Haha ok thanks ill just bring it back tomorrow
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June 12, 2012 12:07:12 AM

EDIT: actually nvm, it was something other than on the bottle. but isnt copper sulfate a salt??
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June 12, 2012 12:08:50 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
No, the six drops would go into the final fill, so its in there while you are running day to day, so flush with listerine etc, then when you are ready to fill and go play games, add the drops to the water thats going to stay in there
i thought i was supposed to add algaecide for 24 hours though to break the algae down before the final fill.
Moto

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a c 190 K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 12:25:48 AM

If thats the plan then do that and leave the pump running overnight to flush any bits out of crannies, then flush all that out, rinse the loop then refill, for all this work I would've just stripped and scrubbed, new tubing and rebuilt
Prevention is always, always better than cure, but in your situation its flush all the bits out, use algaecide, cycle, flush, flush again, drain refill, its a lot of work that could have been avoided with a little prior planning, but we'll get you gloopfree :-)
Moto
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June 12, 2012 12:31:44 AM

i did as much as i thought i needed to do! i already cleaned once, and when i reassembled, i bought new tubing and cleaned all my blocks, radiators, and res. and i also added a kill coil and more Dead Water solution....and it still came back.

do you know if it will be safe for me to run the listerine solution over night tonight? because im planning on taking this algaecide back to get the other since this is an acid
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a c 190 K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 12:39:32 AM

It'll be fine overnight, just make sure you flush well tomorrow,
The problem with bacteria/algae is you can remove 99% of it, but a couple of spores missed and it soon recovers, leaving you frustrated and upset,
As I said, for my money I'd strip everything, scrub with salt and lemon juice to clean the blocks, soak the seals in your algaecide stuff, new tubing, and go from there,
I flush my rig quite regularly with 90/10 distilled and white vinegar, I don't need to but I like the routine and it lets me go over the loop, see problems before they can develop,
I Don't use chemicals due to cats in the house, just silver and uv cathodes, and like Toolmaker, have never had an issue
Moto
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a c 224 K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 10:39:22 AM

What makes you think it's algae especially white algae as most white algae claims are actually some type of fungus, generated from wood or sugars placed inside an aquarium.

Sunlight would promote the growth of algae but photosynthesis would turn it green, 9 times out of 10 what you are dealing with is not algae at all.

There shouldn't be any algae friendly growth environment in your water cooling loop?

What makes you think it's white algae you are seeing?

Have you had a laboratory analyze it, or just assuming that's what it is?

Is what you're seeing forming inside clear tubing or floating free?

You mention an XSPC setup, is your pump inside the reservoir?

If that is the case, Is your kill coil also inside the reservoir?

I have an open loop cooling solution in operation now over a year, if there's anyone here that should have an algae problem it's me and I don't, so I'm more inclined to think towards another problem here besides algae.

To avoid some technological argument if what you are seeing is white frosting effect forming inside the tubing walls then we'll call it the whiting phenomenon, it is possibly caused by your pump being submerged in the liquid coolant, but it is definitely accelerated by putting a kill coil inside the reservoir with the pump, that will frost your tubing in about a month.

Rubix_1011 has actually done some tests and reproduced the whiting effect but to avoid arguments we're not going to give it an official name, none the less it does happen.

If you'd like to accelerate the whiting process add a second kill coil to the reservoir and see what happens.

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a b K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 3:22:47 PM

plattman02 said:
EDIT: actually nvm, it was something other than on the bottle. but isnt copper sulfate a salt??


yes it is, and in low concentrations will be fine, PT nuke is a watered down version of what you got and with additional additives such as water wetter or other products like it, will balance the loops PH level anyway so it does not become an issue. I use talc strips the same type you would use to check a pools PH level, but in the case of a computer loop you're looking for a PH of around 7 instead of 10. on new mixes I will use them to check the loop PH every couple of months to see how the chemicals are reacting to each other, if at all. in most cases you should not see a change of more than a couple of points in either direction from your starting point.

if a change of more than this were to occur drain and rethink your mix because something is not reacting well with each other.
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a c 324 K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 4:04:14 PM

I doubt that algae would be white unless you treated the water and killed it, yet left it in the loop to circulate. Otherwise, could be plasticizers, flux or other impurities that are accumulating. It's hard to tell what it is, but typically algae will be green or yellow-green (I've even seen some that was an orangish-green in photos). Unless you added something that would kill and discolor the algae, I'm thinking it's something else.
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June 12, 2012 4:37:25 PM

4Ryan6 said:
What makes you think it's algae especially white algae as most white algae claims are actually some type of fungus, generated from wood or sugars placed inside an aquarium.

Sunlight would promote the growth of algae but photosynthesis would turn it green, 9 times out of 10 what you are dealing with is not algae at all.

There shouldn't be any algae friendly growth environment in your water cooling loop?

What makes you think it's white algae you are seeing?

Have you had a laboratory analyze it, or just assuming that's what it is?

Is what you're seeing forming inside clear tubing or floating free?

You mention an XSPC setup, is your pump inside the reservoir?

If that is the case, Is your kill coil also inside the reservoir?

I have an open loop cooling solution in operation now over a year, if there's anyone here that should have an algae problem it's me and I don't, so I'm more inclined to think towards another problem here besides algae.

To avoid some technological argument if what you are seeing is white frosting effect forming inside the tubing walls then we'll call it the whiting phenomenon, it is possibly caused by your pump being submerged in the liquid coolant, but it is definitely accelerated by putting a kill coil inside the reservoir with the pump, that will frost your tubing in about a month.

Rubix_1011 has actually done some tests and reproduced the whiting effect but to avoid arguments we're not going to give it an official name, none the less it does happen.

If you'd like to accelerate the whiting process add a second kill coil to the reservoir and see what happens.

i was just assuming it was algae, this is my first build.
im not sure if its forming on any of my tubing walls...because before i cleaned it i have uv green dye and clear tubing, and when i cleaned that the tubing was a little frosted with a greenish tint, so im pretty sure that was the dye.
now i have uv green tubing and clear water, and i cant tell yet if there is anything on the tubing walls. but i can DEFINITELY see free floating particles. before i cleaned i the first time, they looked like flakes. and i can tell they are floating through my loop until they block up the blochs or whatever theyre blocking up because my temps are rising.
yes, my pump is submerged in my res, and yes, my kill coil is inside my res.

are there any suggestions to fix the issue besides buying a new pump and res? and would buying a new pump and res potentially fix it?
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a c 324 K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 4:49:39 PM

Quote:
are there any suggestions to fix the issue besides buying a new pump and res? and would buying a new pump and res potentially fix it?


Neither of these. Loop and block teardown, clean/flush rads, rebuild. I would check tubing if you plan to reuse it and swab/boil/clean it if so.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 4:53:11 PM

I totally missed the part where the gunk is white sorry,
it could be the phenomenon rubix investigated, so I'm inclined to think its a reaction as well now,
how much of this http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11744/ex-liq-154/Iand... have you put into the loop and what is your loops volume?
if We're not fighting algae here then I would say cycle flush several times with just distilled water,
no additives, no killcoil just plain water, cycle for an hour and rinse, repeat with fresh,
if this is a particle migration issue then theres some reaction going off in there and we need to find out what fitting/component is causing it and remove the offending item
*Edit, Pita, but can you list every item in your loop?
Moto
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a c 324 K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 4:56:05 PM

^Good call on it possibly being a reaction of sorts. Quite possible.
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a b K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 5:40:37 PM

well if a reaction of sorts, than why would it return after a flush and clean and even get worse? I know that stuff can become trapped in the radiator but even that after a couple of flushes should be either gone or diluted enough to no longer be a problem. unless the problem is the type of tubing being used that would be the only explanation for this kind of reaction if it were a reaction type problem.

I think it is more likely a fungi of some sort, and it just needs to die. sometimes they can be rather persistent irritants, but there are ways to kill everything today, if this doesn't work there are more powerful chemicals that could be flushed through the system to remove the residents.
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June 12, 2012 6:14:15 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
I totally missed the part where the gunk is white sorry,
it could be the phenomenon rubix investigated, so I'm inclined to think its a reaction as well now,
how much of this http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11744/ex-liq-154/Iand... have you put into the loop and what is your loops volume?
if We're not fighting algae here then I would say cycle flush several times with just distilled water,
no additives, no killcoil just plain water, cycle for an hour and rinse, repeat with fresh,
if this is a particle migration issue then theres some reaction going off in there and we need to find out what fitting/component is causing it and remove the offending item
*Edit, Pita, but can you list every item in your loop?
Moto

here are my items: xspc 750 res-------->3x120mm 30-FPI Copper koolance radiator,------------>xspc water block (copper),-------------->3x120mm xspc copper rad, --------------> two swiftech universal waterblocks (copper) back to my rad.
and im using about 5 drops of deadwater, but the problem had occurred earlier before i purchased the deadwater.
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a c 324 K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 6:22:45 PM

Just an odd issue without being able to correctly identify the culprit.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
June 12, 2012 6:56:40 PM

**well if a reaction of sorts, than why would it return after a flush and clean and even get worse**
if you neglect to remove the cause of a problem, reoccurence is guaranteed,
if for example aluminium was present and causing issues, they would continue to occur until you remove the cause, I.e. the aluminium,

@Op, did you flush the rads etc out before assembling the loop or just assemble?
it is always a possibility that byproducts of manufacture remain in the rad/block once you unwrap it,
and I think you are using far too much Deadwater, its one drop per litre, and you say you use five drops, your loop doesn't take five litres of water, mine only takes six lol,
are your fittings all Xspc nickel ones?
Moto
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a c 190 K Overclocking
June 13, 2012 2:54:49 AM

They actually look different in the pictures so although they are both chromed the makeup of the chroming will be different, that certainly opens up possibilities of anodising occuring,
I'll investigate further when I get home though
Moto
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June 13, 2012 4:31:36 AM

so i traded in what i had for the other copper algaecide they had...its basically the same thing:

ACTIVE INGREDIENTS:
copper (metallic)*............................3.3%
OTHER INGREDIENTS:**..................96.7%
TOTAL...............................................100%
*derived from copper sulfate pentahydrate
**contains polymeric polyacrylate and gluconate stabilizing agents
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June 13, 2012 5:37:18 AM

could it be the stainless steel pot i flush it out with?
although this problem occurred before i even flushed once.
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a c 190 K Overclocking
June 13, 2012 7:06:50 AM

Flush with a clean plastic bucket, I reserve a bucket solely for Pc use and nothing but my mix ever goes in there,
I doubt that the S.S. bucket has contributed to things but I'd never say never :) 
I suspect the fittings, I know Xspc fittings are ok, and I have mine mixed with other fittings no problem, bitspower fittings are also very highly rated, but its possible as I said that they aren't playing well together, only real way to find out is to totally remove one brand from the loop, stripclean and flush, see how the remaining brand fares, then swap over (yes, strip and clean in between) and check out the first brand.
Moto
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a c 224 K Overclocking
June 13, 2012 9:21:48 AM

toolmaker_03 said:
well if a reaction of sorts, than why would it return after a flush and clean and even get worse? I know that stuff can become trapped in the radiator but even that after a couple of flushes should be either gone or diluted enough to no longer be a problem.


If one of the radiator tubes is blocked or partially blocked it could easily be the hiding place for contamination, just because water flows through the radiator doesn't mean all the tubes are open and flowing.

Unfortunately since he cannot see inside the radiator, without a complete diss-assembly which I'm sure he is not capable of doing, (would require removing the end caps and rodding the radiator, and then resoldering the end caps back in place, something only an automotive radiator service could do), maybe he should consider replacing the radiator, it would probably be the cheapest option.

Or he could get an estimate from an automotive radiator cleaning service to rod the radiator, then weigh out the cost difference of cleaning what he has, or completely replacing it, at least the cleaning route he would know for sure.


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June 15, 2012 3:12:12 AM

Wouldnt the silver kill coil promote galvanized corrosion? (copper and silver)
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a b K Overclocking
June 15, 2012 3:24:44 AM

i left you a PM if you want to read it
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June 16, 2012 12:07:00 AM

Motopsychojdn said:
They actually look different in the pictures so although they are both chromed the makeup of the chroming will be different, that certainly opens up possibilities of anodising occuring,
I'll investigate further when I get home though
Moto

I found the culprit! At least i think i did....i hope its the only thing. All of the fittings that arent xspc are corroding. At least the ones that i took out so far. The bitspower angled fittings are starting to corrode, and the bitspower barbs that ive had in there the longest have definitely corroded the most. I will try to post some pictures of the fittings that ive taken out tonight. Its funny, the xspc fitting that i out in are perfectly fine. The part that has corroded on the fittings that have actually corroded is the crome surface. It just rubbed of from me touching it with my finger.
Does xspc even make angled fittings? Because im about to lose a lot of them...

Also, should i be abke to get any money back or am i screwed in that area?
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a c 190 K Overclocking
June 16, 2012 8:14:21 AM

Clean the Bitspower parts up with lemonjuice and rinse, if they are still clean/ look fine then by all means resell on Egay or craigslist,
that white powder/buildup is a definite sign of reaction,
Lets have some pics of the rig and I'll try to avoid angled fittings or suggest alternative solutions,
flexible tubing helps, but sometimes angled connectors are useful,
I would like to point out here that I'm not slagging Bp or Xspc parts off here, they are both quality manufacturers and it just seems they aren't playing well together on this loop,
I'm glad we have gotten to the crux of it though, as I bet you are :) 
Moto
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June 16, 2012 7:28:08 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
Clean the Bitspower parts up with lemonjuice and rinse, if they are still clean/ look fine then by all means resell on Egay or craigslist,
that white powder/buildup is a definite sign of reaction,
Lets have some pics of the rig and I'll try to avoid angled fittings or suggest alternative solutions,
flexible tubing helps, but sometimes angled connectors are useful,
I would like to point out here that I'm not slagging Bp or Xspc parts off here, they are both quality manufacturers and it just seems they aren't playing well together on this loop,
I'm glad we have gotten to the crux of it though, as I bet you are :) 
Moto

Yes im very excited....i had alphacool parts as well and they were also perfectly fine. No corrosion at all. I am going to clean the bitspower fittings (i already did) and put them back in my loop with toolmakers suggestion...lthe water wetter. I cant afford to buy more things if i dont need to haha
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