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Help me with FPS gaming warcraft problems

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December 16, 2009 3:48:31 AM

Hiya. I am stressed-out. I need help. I am a Warcraft addict. I recently upgraded my GPU from a nVidia GeForceLE to an nVidia 8800GTS. I thought this would fix my problems, but alas I am still getting below 10fps in 10 & 25 man raids. I will post my comp and stats and am open to any help in maximizing my fps, including possible hardware upgrades. Please HELP me.

I have tried all of the troubleshooting methods on Wow's support boards, and NOTHING has helped. I run all of my settings in minimum, and still get lousy FPS.


CPU: Intel Pentium D 930 (2 CPUs) Socket 775 LGA 3.00 Ghz
GPU: GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB GDDR3
Motherboard: MSI G31M3-F (MS-7528)
Ram: 4GB

Here is a DxDiag as well with some more info
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 12/16/2009, 00:43:59
Machine name: LANNISTER1
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.090804-1435)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD
System Model: MS-7528
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 3328MB RAM
Page File: 1069MB used, 6192MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.5512 32bit Unicode


Desperate for helps!!!!

Thanks
a c 189 U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 6:32:35 AM

Have u install the driver for your new 8800GTS??
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December 16, 2009 9:10:31 AM

try to update yur graphic driver.....
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December 16, 2009 11:24:45 AM

That is an OK upgrade, but your CPU is holding you back. If you are running dual screens, open task manager and watch what happens to the CPU usage when you are playing the game. Since WoW does not take advantage of multiple cores, my guess is that you will see your CPU usage stay steadily above 50%.

Just to illustrate this, select WoW to run only on one core, and that core will be running at 100%. Unfortunately a CPU upgrade will be needed.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 11:31:51 AM

pbrigido said:
That is an OK upgrade, but your CPU is holding you back. If you are running dual screens, open task manager and watch what happens to the CPU usage when you are playing the game. Since WoW does not take advantage of multiple cores, my guess is that you will see your CPU usage stay steadily above 50%.

Just to illustrate this, select WoW to run only on one core, and that core will be running at 100%. Unfortunately a CPU upgrade will be needed.


WOW uses 2 cores and uses them only to about 50%. The problem is not CPU related as WOW is not that CPU intensive. I play WOW and I can tell you the problem in raids is not the GPU. If the OP gets good FPS in open areas (I assume he has the 'View distance' config to max) then the GPU is ok. In raids, given the fact that there is not so much data to be seen (enclosed areas) most of the GPU power will be used to reander spell effects. But as I said, if the OP has good FPS when in large open spaces (for example in front of SW or Orgrimmar where people usually duel) then the problem is not with the GPU, it is net related. In raids a lot more information has to be sent from the server to the client and back and the network should be the limiting factor.
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December 16, 2009 11:47:29 AM

That is my point. When WoW uses only two cores at 50%, it is only really using the speed of one core....3.0GHZ either way you wrap it. That is why I said to select WoW to use only one core, and if it hits 100% usage, you have maxed out what you can get from the CPU.

If the OP can trust me with anything, please believe that the limiting factor is NOT your network. There is more than enough bandwidth to accomodate the game, as long as you are not on dial-up. And before anybody mentions it, lag does NOT effect FPS in WoW, or any other game for that matter. Like I said, please please believe me on this. It will help you out in the long run and save you LOTS of time.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 12:03:19 PM

pbrigido said:
That is my point. When WoW uses only two cores at 50%, it is only really using the speed of one core....3.0GHZ either way you wrap it. That is why I said to select WoW to use only one core, and if it hits 100% usage, you have maxed out what you can get from the CPU.

If the OP can trust me with anything, please believe that the limiting factor is NOT your network. There is more than enough bandwidth to accomodate the game, as long as you are not on dial-up. And before anybody mentions it, lag does NOT effect FPS in WoW, or any other game for that matter. Like I said, please please believe me on this. It will help you out in the long run and save you LOTS of time.


Well.... let me tell you one thing. I play WOW from 2 different setups. The first is the one in my sig and the second is a laptop. The quad core has the same speed as the CPU from the laptop 2.4ghz. The only difference is the cards used and the network used. Both setups can play WOW at different settings, but with the same FPS. The only difference I see in the FPS is when on the laptop (when I am traveling) I have a bad internet connection. Zones and areas which usually work perfectly well start to hang and this is even more noticeable in raids when a lot of data has to be send to the server and back. Just my 2 cents.
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December 16, 2009 12:09:14 PM

That comes as no surprise to me. There is soooo much network bandwidth available to use, that WoW doesn't even come close to using 10% of the max.

Now if you are on a wireless connection and have a below average signal, you may experience lag, but that will absolutely in NO way contribute to a loss of FPS.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 12:11:55 PM

pbrigido said:
That comes as no surprise to me. There is soooo much network bandwidth available to use, that WoW doesn't even come close to using 10% of the max.

Now if you are on a wireless connection and have a below average signal, you may experience lag, but that will absolutely in NO way contribute to a loss of FPS.


That CPU won't limit WOW. I know people how play WOW on Pentium 4s without problems (at low settings of course).
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December 16, 2009 12:14:25 PM

The CPU is the limiting factor. Bottom line. I'm telling you...select WoW to use only one core, and if it hits 100% usage, you have maxed out what you can get from the CPU.

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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 12:42:54 PM

pbrigido said:
The CPU is the limiting factor. Bottom line. I'm telling you...select WoW to use only one core, and if it hits 100% usage, you have maxed out what you can get from the CPU.


...I don't know what more I can tell you. If the CPU was the limiting factor he would have had the same FPS all over the place not only in raids. For WOW that CPU is the limiting factor at resolutions of 800x600. Above that the GPU will limit and the 8800GTS is a very capable GPU, especially for WOW. And what is that thing with 100% on one core. WTF. If the guy has 50% free on each core I don't see the problem, WOW should take all the extra CPU cycles as well if we were talking about CPU limitations. And believe me, WOW is not limited by any 2 core CPU.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 12:46:27 PM

/agreed - It's your CPU. WOW isn't that demanding on graphics. But is is very demanding on CPU and Memory.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 12:48:39 PM

Scotteq said:
/agreed - It's your CPU. WOW isn't that demanding on graphics. But is is very demanding on CPU and Memory.


X_X. Do you play WOW? On what setups did you play WOW?
Please explain to me why he has low FPS in raids ONLY and lets say in front of Org or SW he has good FPS? I play WOW and I can tell you from a resource point of view large open areas are more stressful than small enclosed areas with few mobs (raids).
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December 16, 2009 12:50:41 PM

You don't understand. WoW isn't a multi-threaded application. It can only use one core. If you have 2 cores, 50% of each core will be used. If the OP has a quad core, the max it can use of each core would be 25%. Get it?

Because he has hit 50% on each core, there is no more juice he can get out of it. He will NEVER get 100% out of each core because, again, WoW is a single core application. Because he will never get 100% out of each core, the CPU has been maxed...end of story.

The original poster came to the forums looking for a solution to the problem of low FPS in raids. I have given it to you. Accept it for the truth and start looking for a CPU upgrade. Amazon.com has a $120 Core 2 Duo E7500 which would be perfect for what he needs. I'll make a promise to you...you buy that product, and if it doesn't fix your issues, I'll pay for the return shipping.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 12:53:26 PM

pbrigido said:
You don't understand. WoW isn't a multi-threaded application. It can only use one core. If you have 2 cores, 50% of each core will be used. If the OP has a quad core, the max it can use of each core would be 25%. Get it?

Because he has hit 50% on each core, there is no more juice he can get out of it. He will NEVER get 100% out of each core because, again, WoW is a single core application. Because he will never get 100% out of each core, the CPU has been maxed...end of story.

The original poster came to the forums looking for a solution to the problem of low FPS in raids. I have given it to you. Accept it for the truth and start looking for a CPU upgrade. Amazon.com has a $120 Core 2 Duo E7500 which would be perfect for what he needs. I'll make a promise to you...you buy that product, and if it doesn't fix your issues, I'll pay for the return shipping.

I have a quad core, dude. It uses ONLY 2 CORES. PERIOD. The other 2 are untouched.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 12:59:54 PM

To the OP, I just remembered. Do you have all your addons up to date? When I update from 3.1 to 3.2 I forgot to update Atlas to the correct version. The first time I entered an instance I got a drop in FPS from 200 to 5. Updated that stupid addon and I all worked like a charm.
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December 16, 2009 1:00:03 PM

hallowed_dragon said:
X_X. Do you play WOW? On what setups did you play WOW?
Please explain to me why he has low FPS in raids ONLY and lets say in front of Org or SW he has good FPS? I play WOW and I can tell you from a resource point of view large open areas are more stressful than small enclosed areas with few mobs (raids).



Open areas can be more stressful on your system, but not necessarily. The greater the draw distance, the more demand on the system. Since in front of Org you have Orgrimmar itself, half of your draw distance doesn't have to be rendered because Ogr blocks half of the screen that needs rendred. So I am not surprised that he has a good FPS out there.

I think you underestimate the CPU power needed to run WoW smoothly. I'm not saying that you need the best CPU out there. In fact, for someone looking to get a Quad Core just to run WoW, they would be wasting their money. You can't get a good video card and neglect a CPU upgrade when one is clearly needed.
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December 16, 2009 1:04:15 PM

hallowed_dragon said:
I have a quad core, dude. It uses ONLY 2 CORES. PERIOD. The other 2 are untouched.



That is because by default when WoW is opened, it is selected to run only on those two cores. Open task manager and select WoW to run on all 4 cores, or just 1 core....it will make absolutely no difference in how the game is processed.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 1:10:21 PM

pbrigido said:
Open areas can be more stressful on your system, but not necessarily. The greater the draw distance, the more demand on the system. Since in front of Org you have Orgrimmar itself, half of your draw distance doesn't have to be rendered because Ogr blocks half of the screen that needs rendred.

I think you underestimate the CPU power needed to run WoW smoothly. I'm not saying that you need the best CPU out there. In fact, for someone looking to get a Quad Core just to run WoW, they would be wasting their money. You can't get a good video card and neglect a CPU upgrade when one is clearly needed.


I can't underestimate the power required by WOW, because I know friends who play WOW perfectly good with a Pentium 4 and a good AGP card (if you can call an AGP card good) at low settings without drops below 30 FPS. As I said earlier, a CPU bottleneck would all over the place, not only in raids. Raids are less CPU intensive because of the low data needed to be rendered(less than 50 objects - 40max players, 10 max NPC) If anything raids would be the place where the OP gets a FPS boost, but this is not the case here. Thinking the other way around, raids are very network limited because of the data needed to be exchanged between the server and the clients. Data from all 10-25-40 players needs to be sent to each client so that addons can get us all the juicy info and events. I still haven't ruled out addons as a cause of the drop (read earlier post)
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December 16, 2009 1:17:55 PM

You are completely wrong. Raids are where a system gets put to the test because it puts a strain on your CPU and your GPU. You can raid for 6 hours in one night and you will not exceed 20mb sent to and from the server.

Plus you don't understand how information is exchanged in WoW. If you are in a 25 man raid, you don't have 25 clients sending you data. It all goes to one server and then to you. You only have 1 upload link to the server and 1 download link from the server...not 25.

Think about it this way, if you understand factorial calculations. If each player in a 25 man raid had to send and receive information from each player instead of the server, the factorial result would be 625 total connections between each computer.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 1:21:20 PM

hallowed_dragon said:
X_X. Do you play WOW? On what setups did you play WOW?
Please explain to me why he has low FPS in raids ONLY and lets say in front of Org or SW he has good FPS? I play WOW and I can tell you from a resource point of view large open areas are more stressful than small enclosed areas with few mobs (raids).


Adillysse <Imperium>, The Scryers. Last I looked, there is only one toon named Adillysse in the game. So feel free to tell me whether or not I play, and at what level.

"Small Enclosed Areas with a few mobs"~? Do *you* even play the same game!?!? :sarcastic:  Do you have the slightest clue how much information has to be processed when 25 people drop their collective bombs on a boss?? Even *my* rig lags a little when that happens.



Now - WOW - *IS* a multithreaded game. If you don't believe me, check your affinity settings: In your WTF folder, there is a file called "config.wtf". Open it with your favorite text editor (Word, notepad, whatever). One of the first few lines is: SET processAffinityMask "*" (the * will be some number) What this does is control how many threads the game will generate. The standard setting is 3 (for a dual core). 7 is the Max you can use for a triple core. 15 the max for a quad, etc... (running max doesn't necessarily get you the best performance - My quad likes 7 more than 15)

It the game were not multithreaded, then this setting would not exist. So you are wrong.

References:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=299453&hig...

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1...



Regarding my system - It's in my details (overclocked Q6600, 8GB RAM, 4870x2). This replaced a Pentium 2. So yes, I have experience playing this game with a similar processor the OP's and also something more modern. I assure you: That Pentium could barely raid the original game, let alone the more stressful current iteration. WOW really is more demanding of Processor and Memory than it is on graphics. Simple test: Turn the graphics settings down - Still lags?? Then the problem is Processor/RAM. In this case, the OP has plenty of RAM, so that leaves the processor.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 1:23:53 PM

pbrigido said:
You are completely wrong. Raids are where a system gets put to the test because it puts a strain on your CPU and your GPU. You can raid for 6 hours in one night and you will not exceed 20mb sent to and from the server.

Plus you don't understand how information is exchanged in WoW. If you are in a 25 man raid, you don't have 25 clients sending you data. It all goes to one server and then to you. You only have 1 upload link to the server and 1 download link from the server...not 25.

And you still didn't address the Pentium 4 example.

Think about it this way, if you understand factorial calculations. If each player in a 25 man raid had to send and receive information from each player instead of the server, the factorial result would be 15511210043330985984000000 total connections between each computer.


I should have been more explicit. Let me rephrase that : Data from each client is sent to the SERVER which sends the computed data (big packet) back to each client.

I can say from my personal experience that in raids I get 100+ FPS (with my 4870) and when I get out I get a drop to 60+.
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December 16, 2009 1:29:56 PM

Actually you are correct Scotteq. That was a wrong choice of terms to use on my part. I meant to say that is is not a multi-core game. Regardless of how many cores you have, it will not exceed the total processing power of one single core. For example:

A solo core 3.0 GHZ CPU will run WoW at a max of 3.0 GHZ = 1 core X 3.0 GHZ = 3.0 GHZ total
A dual core 3.0 GHZ CPU will run WoW at a max of 1.5 GHZ on each core = 2 cores X 1.5 GHZ = 3.0 GHZ total
a quad core 3.0 GHZ CPU will run WoW at a max of .750 GHZ on each core = 4 cores X .750 GHZ = 3.0 GHZ


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December 16, 2009 1:34:18 PM

hallowed_dragon said:
I should have been more explicit. Let me rephrase that : Data from each client is sent to the SERVER which sends the computed data (big packet) back to each client.

I can say from my personal experience that in raids I get 100+ FPS (with my 4870) and when I get out I get a drop to 60+.



There is more to it than that. If someone spends their time out of raids in either Org, IF, or Dalaran for example, you should have a lower FPS than when you are raiding. There is so much information that needs to be processed there than in raids.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 1:38:01 PM

pbrigido said:
Actually you are correct Scotteq. That was a wrong choice of terms to use on my part. I meant to say that is is not a multi-core game. Regardless of how many cores you have, it will not exceed the total processing power of one single core. For example:

A solo core 3.0 GHZ CPU will run WoW at a max of 3.0 GHZ = 1 core X 3.0 GHZ = 3.0 GHZ total
A dual core 3.0 GHZ CPU will run WoW at a max of 1.5 GHZ on each core = 2 cores X 1.5 GHZ = 3.0 GHZ total
a quad core 3.0 GHZ CPU will run WoW at a max of .750 GHZ on each core = 4 cores X .750 GHZ = 3.0 GHZ



Core speeds do not magically change with relation to the program you are running. There is no limiter on how fast a core may run code. Further, which threads happen to be running on which core, and when, is sole~ly controlled by the OS's scheduler. This is transparent/invisible to the program.

You are wrong. Please stop. And Please do not associate my name with this kind of stupidity.
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December 16, 2009 1:43:48 PM

Scotteq said:
Core speeds do not magically change with relation to the program you arre running. You are wrong. Please stop.



I didn't say that the cores change speed with relation to the program you are running. In my example, WoW would only run at half the speed on each core on a dual core system. And on a quad core system, WoW would run at a quarter of the speed...but the total GHZ of each core would not change obviously, just how much of each core would be used. Better?
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December 16, 2009 1:45:42 PM

ok, let's keep it simple. If one was playing WoW on a dual core system and the CPU was maxed, would each core show 50% usage or 100% usage?
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 1:45:46 PM

Scotteq said:
Adillysse <Imperium>, The Scryers. Last I looked, there is only one toon named Adillysse in the game. So feel free to tell me whether or not I play, and at what level.

"Small Enclosed Areas with a few mobs"~? Do *you* even play the same game!?!? :sarcastic:  Do you have the slightest clue how much information has to be processed when 25 people drop their collective bombs on a boss?? Even *my* rig lags a little when that happens.



Now - WOW - *IS* a multithreaded game. If you don't believe me, check your affinity settings: In your WTF folder, there is a file called "config.wtf". Open it with your favorite text editor (Word, notepad, whatever). One of the first few lines is: SET processAffinityMask "*" (the * will be some number) What this does is control how many threads the game will generate. The standard setting is 3 (for a dual core). 7 is the Max you can use for a triple core. 15 the max for a quad, etc... (running max doesn't necessarily get you the best performance - My quad likes 7 more than 15)

It the game were not multithreaded, then this setting would not exist. So you are wrong.

References:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=299453&hig...

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1...



Regarding my system - It's in my details (overclocked Q6600, 8GB RAM, 4870x2). This replaced a Pentium 2. So yes, I have experience playing this game with a similar processor the OP's and also something more modern. I assure you: That Pentium could barely raid the original game, let alone the more stressful current iteration. WOW really is more demanding of Processor and Memory than it is on graphics. Simple test: Turn the graphics settings down - Still lags?? Then the problem is Processor/RAM. In this case, the OP has plenty of RAM, so that leaves the processor.


Yes we play the same game :)  and yes I know that in raids there is a lot of data being processed. But then I also know my server (private 1000+ blizzlike 1x server). I also know the people that play there. And let me assure you that in front of Org and SW there is a lot more action going (stupid duelers - dueling instead of arena...geez) than in any raid, newer content included.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 1:51:44 PM

pbrigido said:
ok, let's keep it simple. If one was playing WoW on a dual core system and the CPU was maxed, would each core show 50% usage or 100% usage?




By definition: If the processor is maxxed, then BOTH CORES will show 100%. If not, then the processor is not maxxed. Very simple.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 1:52:53 PM

pbrigido said:
I didn't say that the cores change speed with relation to the program you are running. In my example, WoW would only run at half the speed on each core on a dual core system. And on a quad core system, WoW would run at a quarter of the speed...but the total GHZ of each core would not change obviously, just how much of each core would be used. Better?



You

Are

Wrong


Computers and software do not work like that. Please stop.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 1:55:34 PM

pbrigido said:
ok, let's keep it simple. If one was playing WoW on a dual core system and the CPU was maxed, would each core show 50% usage or 100% usage?


Nice logic. So if you put the water from 1 glass in 2 glasses, the 2 glasses are full... :o 
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December 16, 2009 1:58:28 PM

Scotteq said:
By definition: If the processor is maxxed, then BOTH CORES will show 100%. If not, then the processor is not maxxed. Very simple.



I hate to inform you, but you are wrong. If a WoW maxed out a dual core system, both cores would show a 50% usage, not 100%.
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December 16, 2009 2:01:14 PM

hallowed_dragon said:
Nice logic. So if you put the water from 1 glass in 2 glasses, the 2 glasses are full... :o 



Nice analogy! Let's stick with it. If you put water from 1 full glass into two empty glasses, both are going to be half full. That is what my example shows. And it is true.

The same holds true for WoW or any other piece of software that isn't designed to take advantage of multiple cores.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 2:03:08 PM

pbrigido said:
I hate to inform you, but you are wrong. If a WoW maxed out a dual core system, both cores would show a 50% usage, not 100%.



:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
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December 16, 2009 2:04:49 PM

Scotteq said:
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 



I know, how could you have ben so wrong!
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 2:06:10 PM

pbrigido said:
Nice analogy! Let's stick with it. If you put water from 1 full glass into two empty glasses, both are going to be half full. That is what my example shows. And it is true.

The same holds true for WoW or any other piece of software that isn't designed to take advantage of multiple cores.




Have you even read this thread? Because you clearly haven't the slightest clue. I SHOWED YOU THE SETTINGS TO CONTROL HOW MANY THREADS THE GAME SPAWNS!

Also - If the game were not at least minimally multithreaded, then it would run only on ONE core and ignore the other. It doesn't. You are wrong.

Analogy: 2 Cores = 2 Glasses If you put half a glass of water in each 'core' - Then The Processor Is Only Half Loaded
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December 16, 2009 2:14:03 PM

An application that isn't designed to use multiple cores splits the work load between two cores and therefore, each core won't exceed 50% total usage for that application. Understand? It cannot be said any more simple than that...and it is true.

Please learn more about this topic before replying.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 2:16:58 PM

pbrigido said:
An application that isn't designed to use multiple cores splits the work load between two cores and therefore, each core won't exceed 50% total usage for that application. Understand? It cannot be said any more simple than that...and it is true.

Please learn more about this topic before replying.



WRONG

It will fully load one core, and ignore the other.



And again, you ignore the fact that I showed You The Setting To Control How Many threads The Game Spawns. If the game were not multi threaded, this setting could not exist. You are wrong. Please Stop.
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December 16, 2009 2:19:00 PM

You are wrong. It splits the workload between cores. Just run some simple tests and you can see it for yourself.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 2:22:26 PM

One Thread can NOT run in two different places at the same time. Period. End of discussion. If the load can be split between two cores, then by definition there *must* be two threads.
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December 16, 2009 2:25:13 PM

One application can be process by two seperate cores. If it is not designed to use multiple cores, the workload gets devided between the cores. Simple enough for you?
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 2:29:16 PM

One Thread can NOT run in two different places at the same time. Period. End of discussion. If the load can be split between two cores, then by definition there *must* be two threads.

If it can not use multiple cores, then it will only use ONE core. Simple enough for you?
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December 16, 2009 2:37:19 PM

It is clear to see that you are mad. I suggest you cool off, drop the attitude, and return with a clear head.

Once again, an application can be processed by multiple cores. ok?
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 2:44:48 PM

An application may be processed on multiple cores if that application supports multiple threads.

Why? One thread may only run on one place at a given time.

Therefore - If an application may be run on two cores at the same time, then it *must* support at least some level of threading.
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December 16, 2009 2:53:29 PM

Scotteq said:
An application may be processed on multiple cores if that application supports multiple threads.

Why? One thread may only run on one place at a given time.

Therefore - If an application may be run on two cores at the same time, then it *must* support at least some level of threading.



Absolutely Yes. I agree. Now, in the case of WoW or another application, unless that software was designed to take advantage of multiple cores, that software will have it's total CPU workload distributed across the cores. Therefore - WoW running at 100% on one core would result in a distributed workload across 2 cores at 50% maxed on each core for that application.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 3:06:13 PM

pbrigido said:
Absolutely Yes. I agree. Now, in the case of WoW or another application, unless that software was designed to take advantage of multiple cores, that software will have it's total CPU workload distributed across the cores.



Backwards: In order for the application to be distributed across multiple cores, then it must (By Definition) support multiple threads. An application can not be broken into pieces as you describe unless it supports at least some level of threading.



pbrigido said:
Therefore - WoW running at 100% on one core would result in a distributed workload across 2 cores at 50% maxed on each core for that application.



NOT correct - The workload on each individual core will be determined by how demanding the threads are which happen to be running at that particular time.

Because each thread does not perform the same function as the others, they are not equally stressful, and therefore the equal distribution of workload which you describe is nearly impossible to achieve. Further, even in highly threaded applications, there is typically a "main" thread and some number of "helper" threads doing side work. So even in heavily multithreaded apps, typically one core will be heavily loaded while others will exibit different degrees of stress depending on the load being put upon them at the time.


Also - Keep in mind that although the (game) you happen to be running at the time is the only thing that *you* are doing, your computer has a lot more on it's plate. A simple check in the task manager confirms this. So on a multi core system, even when you are running a completely single threaded app, the other cores will show some workload because the scheduler is putting the background work there in order to not interfere.
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December 16, 2009 3:11:43 PM

Scotteq said:


NOT correct - The workload on each individual core will be determined by how demanding the threads are which happen to be running at that particular time.

Because each thread does not perform the same function as the others, they are not equally stressful, and therefore the equal distribution of workload which you describe is nearly impossible to achieve. Further, even in highly threaded applications, there is typically a "main" thread and some number of "helper" threads doing side work. So even in heavily multithreaded apps, typically one core will be heavily loaded while others will exibit different degrees of stress depending on the load being put upon them at the time.


Also - Keep in mind that although the (game) you happen to be running at the time is the only thing that *you* are doing, your computer has a lot more on it's plate. A simple check in the task manager confirms this. So on a multi core system, even when you are running a completely single threaded app, the other cores will show some workload because the scheduler is putting the background work there in order to not interfere.


I never said that there is any sort of equal distribution. The point is for that one application, in this case WoW, it cannot exceed 50% CPU usage on each core in a dual core system.
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 3:17:13 PM

Quote:
The workload on each individual core will be determined by how demanding the threads are which happen to be running at that particular time.


Exactly. So the workload on each core depends on the threads that run on that core. There will never be a definitive split of 50% on each core for 2 threads of a program, even if the threads do exactly the same thing. This is because of the way the threads gain access to the CPU and other resources. When multithreading is involved there is a locking, unlocking management framework present as well which will limit the resources used at any given time by any of the threads.
You make some valid points Scotteq (you a programmer by any change? would be nice to meet a fellow colleague).
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 3:18:06 PM

pbrigido said:
I never said that there is any sort of equal distribution. The point is for that one application, in this case WoW, it cannot exceed 50% CPU usage on each core in a dual core system.




So - 50% on one core and 50% on the other is somehow not equal? So an app which is not multithreaded may be somehow magically broken in pieces and run in more than one location at the same time?

It is clear to see you are mad....
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a b U Graphics card
December 16, 2009 3:20:08 PM

pbrigido said:
I never said that there is any sort of equal distribution. The point is for that one application, in this case WoW, it cannot exceed 50% CPU usage on each core in a dual core system.


That is completely untrue. An application access to resources is limited by the framework that is based upon or by some old OS limitation (older than XP). An application can take full advantage of all the system resources if it really wants too. Check any CPU, RAM stress utility to see for yourself.
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