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1336 with 4 way SLI and I'm relatively new to this

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June 19, 2012 6:32:03 PM

So I've decided that it's finally time to get some LC for my build. It's a GA-X58A-UD9 based build with 4 GTX 580s. Now I've had LC in the past, but it was pretty much just the simple CPU + single graphics card loop and I can't really say I'm in any shape to design an LC system for such a rig. Before I get answers telling me it's going to cost me a lot - thanks, I know. I'm willing to dish out quite a bit for this project, though I'm not looking for any suggestions that are ridiculously priced.

Before any suggestions start I'm leaning very much towards any blocks (or anything else) from EK waterblocks as they're easy to get (I actually live pretty close to EKWB) and anything else would probably require me having to do purchases outside my country.

The main problems I'm encountering is that I have no clue how to handle both cooling the liquid going through the cards (and potentially the CPU too, although I have decent air cooling on it now) and how I would even get normal flow through so many blocks and rads. Being inexperienced as I am, I'm not even sure how many radiators I would need for such a system, nor what kind of power I would need from any pump (or perhaps even the plural - pumps?).

I'm really looking for any sort of help or suggestions at this point. I'm also interested in whether anyone would consider including the CPU or mobo in the LC system given that both aren't suffering too bad when cooled with air cooling.

More about : 1336 sli

a c 330 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 6:36:19 PM

What was your loop consisting of before? What pump/blocks, etc? This is more experience than most people have starting out, so you have a leg-up on this.

The watercooling sticky might also help with any additional questions.
a c 78 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 6:38:19 PM

@ MR "derpina's husband" - please respond to this and I'll respond back with some watercooling info:) 
Related resources
a c 100 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 6:43:05 PM

It's also going to take a lot of radiator space, given that there's 4 gpus and the CPU. It would be unlikely that you have a case to fit all of that inside. Might be worthwhile looking at one of those extreme radiators like this:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11760/ex-rad-123/Phob...

And just mounting it on the back side of the case.

I'm not entirely sure whether you'd need 2 pumps, I think an MCP655 would do the trick, but you can certainly go bigger. You can even get dual-pumps like this
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14648/ex-res-333/Kool...
a b K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 6:49:07 PM

well I am in the process of a new build myself, and I have done a lot of research on the build, so if you would like to take a look at it and ask some questions. I would be happy to help you build your own LC system for your computer.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274855-29-experimenta...
a c 330 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 6:49:30 PM

Highly restrictive loop like this, I'd recommend dual D5 or DDC pumps.
June 19, 2012 7:41:05 PM

rubix_1011 said:
What was your loop consisting of before? What pump/blocks, etc? This is more experience than most people have starting out, so you have a leg-up on this.

The watercooling sticky might also help with any additional questions.


Lutfij said:
@ MR derpina's husband - please respond to this and I'll respond back with some watercooling info:) 


I used the EK Supreme HF for the CPU and EK's block for the 5850/5870. The pump was a cheapo Eheim one, nothing really special afaik but it was enough to get reasnoable temps with the average 120 and 240 rads I used. The CPU block, pump and 240 rad now reside within my Z77 "office" rig but could be potentially reused if need be.

I've also gone through quite a few guides, stickies in different places and reviews, but I still gotta admit that I'm clueless on how to pull this off. I'm mainly worried about killing the flow with so many things in the loop (or loops, I'm considering just getting two pumps and splitting up the cards into pairs and combining one pair with the mobo and one with the cpu).

wolfram23 said:
It's also going to take a lot of radiator space, given that there's 4 gpus and the CPU. It would be unlikely that you have a case to fit all of that inside. Might be worthwhile looking at one of those extreme radiators like this:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11760/ex-rad-123/Phob...

And just mounting it on the back side of the case.

I'm not entirely sure whether you'd need 2 pumps, I think an MCP655 would do the trick, but you can certainly go bigger. You can even get dual-pumps like this
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14648/ex-res-333/Kool...



I'm pretty sure (at least some of) the rads are going to have to be somewhere out of the case, although I'm still hoping that I can fit as much as possible in the actual case I'll be using. I've got both a CM HAF-X and Xigmatek Elysium available, though the HAF-X has already been slightly stripped and modded.

If one pump can do the trick it would be great, primarily because I want to fit most of the LC system in the actual case (currently the Elysium) and not much space is left. The Koolance pump/reservoir combo looks pretty nice but I might have a problem acquiring it (a quick search didn't really return any hits here or in Germany). If anyone has any tips on where to get stuff in Europe I'm all ears.

toolmaker_03 said:
well I am in the process of a new build myself, and I have done a lot of research on the build, so if you would like to take a look at it and ask some questions. I would be happy to help you build your own LC system for your computer.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/274855-29-experimenta...



I'll read it more thoroghly a bit later, though I'm hoping to avoid too much non-standard parts and modding stuff (and at a quick glance it looks like you had quite a bit of both).
a b K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 7:52:34 PM

well yes but I think that what you will be interested in is on page 5 the flow testing of the individual parts of the loop and the one pump I used for it as well as the reason for splitting the loop into two loops is because of the restrictive nature of some of the components was so great that i did not want them on the same loop as my CPU and GPU.
a c 78 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 7:53:30 PM

:)  i thought you were a bot, as you mentioned the EK only listing :p  but now i know you live in UK ... :D  afaik :lol:  - that is i think right :D .
back on topic. yeah as rubix has mentioned, you do have a legup on this situation, its your understanding of the pump thas lacking. Its fine, relax. We're here to help.

gimme 30 mins and I'll be back for some advice on your setup , cheers!
June 19, 2012 8:18:09 PM

toolmaker_03 said:
well yes but I think that what you will be interested in is on page 5 the flow testing of the individual parts of the loop and the one pump I used for it as well as the reason for splitting the loop into two loops is because of the restrictive nature of some of the components was so great that i did not want them on the same loop as my CPU and GPU.


I'll take a look tomorrow, the laptop I'm on now doesn't really help me multitask and view lots of images that well.

Lutfij said:
:)  i thought you were a bot, as you mentioned the EK only listing :p  but now i know you live in UK ... :D  afaik :lol:  - that is i think right :D .
back on topic. yeah as rubix has mentioned, you do have a legup on this situation, its your understanding of the pump thas lacking. Its fine, relax. We're here to help.

gimme 30 mins and I'll be back for some advice on your setup , cheers!


Appreciate it, but I'm actually from Slovenia, this tiny country right under Austria. :lol:  If it puts things into perspective, our whole population is around 2 million and I think we're about the size of the Seattle metro area. I don't think it really comes as a surprise I want EK stuff which is literally round the corner as opposed to anything else I would have to search for elsewhere in Europe.
a c 78 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 9:28:29 PM

I'd stay away from the koolance radiator kits (the all in one solutions) they advertise to be able to dissipate alot of heat within a lil space. What sort of rads dya have now? since you mentioned having performed WC'ing int the past...i.e: what else was hooked upto the HF and the GPU blocks :p 

i would vote for the Xigmatek case that you have - it seems to look like a monster and can handle a 480 rad up top(maybe with a lil modding) and the HAF X will be my second preference.

what else will you want to cool? I noticed the UD9 - so it has the fusion block system on it right? but i think its in aluminium/nickel plated copper. If you'd like to cool the mobo mosfet area - you could get a full cover block for the board - however, i doubt EK will have a full copper vrsion.

I mentioned full copper because the nickel plated versions are wreaking havoc in the watercooling niche - saying that you should use their coolants and not distilled water. (complete B.S) so thats why I, erm, am a lil reserved about EK products - except when it comes to copper flavors of their blocks.

* might also want to check out the EK Supremacy in plexi top, copper.
a c 330 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 9:36:58 PM

Quote:
I'd stay away from the koolance radiator kits (the all in one solutions) they advertise to be able to dissipate alot of heat within a lil space


Koolance in general likes to advertise more cooling capacity than what seems realistically possible for each rad they sell. Either Martin & Skinnee are way off on their testing methods, or Koolance is fudging a bit. Either way, Koolance rads are pretty decent performers (most are med to high FPI) regardless of the over-inflated wattage listed.

I'd love to see how they calculate that a 3x120 rad can dissipate 1000 watts of heat, when most of Skinnee's charts show 2000rpm fans can dissipate around 575-600 watts on most good 3x120's. 4000rpm fans, perhaps? :/ 
June 19, 2012 9:41:57 PM

Lutfij said:
I'd stay away from the koolance radiator kits (the all in one solutions) they advertise to be able to dissipate alot of heat within a lil space. What sort of rads dya have now? since you mentioned having performed WC'ing int the past...i.e: what else was hooked upto the HF and the GPU blocks :p 

i would vote for the Xigmatek case that you have - it seems to look like a monster and can handle a 480 rad up top(maybe with a lil modding) and the HAF X will be my second preference.

what else will you want to cool? I noticed the UD9 - so it has the fusion block system on it right? but i think its in aluminium/nickel plated copper. If you'd like to cool the mobo mosfet area - you could get a full cover block for the board - however, i doubt EK will have a full copper vrsion.

I mentioned full copper because the nickel plated versions are wreaking havoc in the watercooling niche - saying that you should use their coolants and not distilled water. (complete B.S) so thats why I, erm, am a lil reserved about EK products - except when it comes to copper flavors of their blocks.

* might also want to check out the EK Supremacy in plexi top, copper.


I literally have the first rads I could get my hands on back when I threw together my first LC system. The 240 rad is at hand, I have no clue where the 120 one is now. I also have one of those ordinary no-name 3.5" bay reservoirs. Tubing is, well, tubing. It's all still from my first build, no clue if it's any special but I'll most likely get new rads, a new reservoir and new tubing so as to preserve my current LC system.

And yeah, the case is pretty cool but sadly my dual PSU setup took away some of that space advertised for the huge rad. Downside of having to power 4 cards, I guess.

As far as the motherboard goes I was intending to use the stock cooling, which allows for some limited LC cooling. Supposedly it's all copper/nickel and shouldn't cause any problems with the other copper blocks. I don't really intend to get any extra blocks for it since it's never really needed any special cooling so far. Also on the topic of nickel and copper, I intend to get the normal copper + acetal blocks, I don't really fancy paying extra just for a nickel finish. Unless otherwise recommended I'm probably gonna go with distilled water and a silver coil again, it has worked for me so far and it's far cheaper and simpler than the alternatives.

CPU block-wise if I'll get a new block it will most likely indeed be the Supremacy, which is the Supreme HF's successor if I'm not mistaken.
June 19, 2012 9:48:59 PM

I accidentally missed your post and for some reason I can't edit mine, so here's a double post :ange: 

rubix_1011 said:
Quote:
I'd stay away from the koolance radiator kits (the all in one solutions) they advertise to be able to dissipate alot of heat within a lil space


Koolance in general likes to advertise more cooling capacity than what seems realistically possible for each rad they sell. Either Martin & Skinnee are way off on their testing methods, or Koolance is fudging a bit. Either way, Koolance rads are pretty decent performers (most are med to high FPI) regardless of the over-inflated wattage listed.

I'd love to see how they calculate that a 3x120 rad can dissipate 1000 watts of heat, when most of Skinnee's charts show 2000rpm fans can dissipate around 575-600 watts on most good 3x120's. 4000rpm fans, perhaps? :/ 


Speaking of rads ... any recommendations for something that can actually dissipate 1000-ish watts of heat? Regarding fans I'm probably gonna use Scythe Kaze Jyuni fans, they're pretty affordable over here and have a reasonably high airflow (advertised maximum of around 150m^3/h).
a b K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 9:56:21 PM

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12293/ex-rad-196/Wate...

this might do that, with the fans you plan on getting

** I see the 500W TDP but I would double that to get to a real life expectations of the ability of a rad to dissipate heat so your idea about needing 1000W dissipation is probably more realistic than what the math says. ** edit
a c 330 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 9:58:18 PM

You are looking at something in the neighborhood of a 3x120 + 2x120 or 2x- 3x120 rads; this is assuming a delta-T of ~10C or so and 1500-1800rpm fans and 1.0-1.5gpm of flow, but this is HIGHLY dependent upon your actual loop total heat output in watts.

It really will depend on your total loop TDP as to what you'll realistically need. For instance, your 3930k has a TDP of 130watts. Each GTX 680 has a TDP of 195-200watts. Assuming you run 2x GTX 680's and your CPU in a single loop (all at stock speeds) the most heat in watts you can theoretically produce is around 530 watts or so at 100% load for all components. Now, TDP assumes this is the total amount of power in watts you consume, and for estimation purposes, we 'assume' 85-90% of that can actually be produced at 100% load (power consumption and head dissipation under load are directly related) so you might be looking at 450-480 watts TDP @ 100% load.

This would easily put you in line for a great, single 360 (3x120mm) rad or even a 360 and additional 120 or 140 (1x140mm) if you wanted. Just do some simple math and recalculate as needed.
a c 78 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 10:08:34 PM

Quote:
Koolance in general likes to advertise more cooling capacity than what seems realistically possible for each rad they sell
yeah, even the koolance strap on kit that one owner used seems to mention that the unit does over heat and i was surprised to see his hardware contained in only 2x120mm fan/rad outputs.

there's something about 360's that make them pretty, I'm also wondering if I should get one for the vintage case mod.

@ OP - tubing is tubing , however its best not to reuse tubing, they tend to become hard and most times become the cause of a leak cos of stiffening. would you have a picture of the res? might also want to include all the hardware you have to work with :)  might inspire us to give you some out-of-the-box solutions :D  - oh how modo would love that!
a c 100 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 10:38:31 PM

I find the 120mm rads are a bit silly now, with all the cases available. Usually you can fit 140s if not 180s inside many cases, which means a huge increase in cooling performance. A 120x2 has nothing on a 140x2. A single 200mm rad has almost the same area as a 3x120, although they are generally a little thinner.
a c 78 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 10:59:56 PM

well, if it needs fans to cool them then yeah the 120's do have something on them 140's. getting good fans with good static pressure instead of generic type fans that only advertise high cfm.

i can't seem to remember the video but it illustrated the silverstone Air penetrators ability compared to two no name fans - the smoke machine showed the turbulence and distribution of air on the said fans ,might want to look out for it.
June 19, 2012 11:01:37 PM

If only I had 680s and a 3930k ... still rocking 580s and my hella old 980x. When OCed and all, the cards can easily draw in excess of 300W and although I've never done separate tests I've seen others claim figures even over 350W. Of course I doubt I'll see such figures in real life, but I still want to be on the safe side. And the 980x can draw well over 130W too when given enough juice, so even though I don't know the actual efficiency of processing units nowadays, I think I should be prepared for more than 450-480W heat produced. Or maybe I'm just paranoid, dunno.

@ toolmaker_03 I'm pretty sure I can get my hands on that rad if need be, I'll keep it in mind if I don't find anything smaller that could do the job.

@ Lutfij the reservoir is currently in my "office" pc and not quite at hand, but it's nothing special. Literally the cheapest 3.5" bay plastic box I could find in this country. As for all the hardware, here's approximately what I'll be working with now:
>GA-X58A-UD9
>Intel 980x
>4x GTX 580
>6x 2GB of Dominator 1600MHz CL8 ram (I know it's about time to replace them, but they've served me so well)
>2x Crucial m4 128GB
>4x WD Caviar Black 1TB (I bought them for like half their price before the floods began, I couldn't get rid of my smirk for days)

As far as cases and psus go, it's a bit of a mess. I currently have a Xigmatek Elysium and a butchered CM HAF-X, though I'm still looking for any alternatives that can house two PSUs and have 10 expansion slots for the graphics cards. I own two CM Silent Pro 1000W PSUs (dunno the exact make right now) and two Tagan 900W PSUs (one's in use right one). I think I have some of those PWM controllers also lying around, though beyond knowing that it's made by Scythe I have no clue on which specific model it is. Oh and I must have like 10 standard Scythe Kaze Jyuni 12cm fans lying around from the time I tried to replace all my fans with them.
a b K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 11:25:01 PM

well I don't have a 580 but I do have 2 480 and at stock they claimed 200W but I have found it is closer 300W for the first card and 200W for the second O clocked between 400 and 500W on the first card and 300 to 400W on the second the mother board they claimed 145W stock but mine pulls 200W stock and O clocked it is 350W so I have a 1250W PSU for the cards and mother board and a 530W PSU for everything else.
a c 78 K Overclocking
June 19, 2012 11:28:21 PM

now that you mentioned it, what make/model of the GTX 580 dya have? i know i'll beat rubix to it by saying - you need to make sure if they have an IHS or not, in order to use waterblocks on them.

wow, that reminds me, prices for HDD's should've dropped by now...[:lutfij:2]

get back to us with the exact models and make. FYI - those dominators are sweet! don't replace them. maybe snag a ram cooler for those dimms ;)  ?
June 19, 2012 11:56:03 PM

Lutfij said:
now that you mentioned it, what make/model of the GTX 580 dya have? i know i'll beat rubix to it by saying - you need to make sure if they have an IHS or not, in order to use waterblocks on them.

wow, that reminds me, prices for HDD's should've dropped by now...[:lutfij:2]

get back to us with the exact models and make. FYI - those dominators are sweet! don't replace them. maybe snag a ram cooler for those dimms ;)  ?


I'm pretty sure it's a reference card, it's made by Colorful. I don't think they make any custom cards, or at least I haven't seen them. I'll consider getting a ram cooler or something if I LC my CPU, right now the fans on the heatsink reach over the ram sticks and there's barely any space :??: 
a c 330 K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 12:06:08 AM

wolfram23 said:
I find the 120mm rads are a bit silly now, with all the cases available. Usually you can fit 140s if not 180s inside many cases, which means a huge increase in cooling performance. A 120x2 has nothing on a 140x2. A single 200mm rad has almost the same area as a 3x120, although they are generally a little thinner.



I agree that x120mm rads can be outdated, but I will agree with Lutfij that it is a bit harder to find good 140mm fans (let alone, good 180 or 200's) that are designed and built for pushing through rads that size. Most are case fans designed and optimized for slower fan speed and silence and little to do with CFM and static pressure. Also, 120mm is still a very common case/fan mount size, so you would likely find many more places to mount a 120mm based rad than 140 and 180s.

But yes, if I were in the market to buy new rads (read: watercooling budget vs. bills, car payments and mortgage) I'd likely be looking at 140mm or 180mm rads and hoping to find fans adequate for them. The fact that most are lower FPI does help...I'll def. give you that argument.
a c 100 K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 1:25:54 AM

Lutfij said:
well, if it needs fans to cool them then yeah the 120's do have something on them 140's. getting good fans with good static pressure instead of generic type fans that only advertise high cfm.

i can't seem to remember the video but it illustrated the silverstone Air penetrators ability compared to two no name fans - the smoke machine showed the turbulence and distribution of air on the said fans ,might want to look out for it.


I've got an Air Penetrator :D 

rubix_1011 said:
I agree that x120mm rads can be outdated, but I will agree with Lutfij that it is a bit harder to find good 140mm fans (let alone, good 180 or 200's) that are designed and built for pushing through rads that size. Most are case fans designed and optimized for slower fan speed and silence and little to do with CFM and static pressure. Also, 120mm is still a very common case/fan mount size, so you would likely find many more places to mount a 120mm based rad than 140 and 180s.

But yes, if I were in the market to buy new rads (read: watercooling budget vs. bills, car payments and mortgage) I'd likely be looking at 140mm or 180mm rads and hoping to find fans adequate for them. The fact that most are lower FPI does help...I'll def. give you that argument.


That's just it though, they are lower FPI. Plus, I'm all for a quiet system over mega hyper fans. One of the main things about 120mm fans is they need to spin much faster to push as much air as bigger fans, plus unless you use a shroud there's a much larger (% wise) dead spot on the rad than having a bigger fan.

I know 120mm fans are far more common, of course, but there's quite a few bigger fans available now.
a c 330 K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 2:31:04 AM

Agreed; mainly playing devil's advocate or good cop/bad cop to offer a differing opinion. Completely agree with you, though...definitely worth considering if you have the space to mount a larger rad.
a c 78 K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 11:20:22 AM

the air penetrator is a good case fan with its focused flow and noctua have taken notice of this and come out with the NF F-xx series. Bitfenix "say" that their spectre pro's have focused air flow design on their blades and are optimally designed to act as rad fans as well as rad fans. Haven't gone with a 140 rad or above and my 140mm Bitfenix spcetre pro will be used to cool my hdd's at the front of case.

advertising say a lot of things like how the koolance's can dissipate ____W of heat from a system... go figure(+fill int he blanks) :/ 

* i could go 140 by changing out the stainless steel framing on the AMS and put on some 140 fans, but i'm not confident on the 140's performance.
June 20, 2012 1:49:44 PM

So with all this rad talk ... what are your guys recommendations? After hearing that OCed GTX 480s draw "400 and 500W on the first card and 300 to 400W on the second" from their advertised 250W max, I'm not sure how much to trust the 244W max advertised for the GTX 580s. I'm most definitely going to try and OC them and I haven't really found any viable options to dissipate what may now well be over a kilowatt of heat :sweat: 

One of the lower restriction rads (if I'm not mistaken, I'm kinda still in the confused data collection stage of this project) that seems to work well (and that I can actually get in Europe without problems) is the Aqua Computer Airplex Revolution 420/360. Considering how much restriction my LC system is probably gonna have and considering I don't really have some especially good fans, I dunno what kind of pump I'll need to get these to dissipate anywhere near a reasonable amount of heat. Looking at the roundup at SkineeLabs, I would probably get around 500W dissipated at 10°C delta from ambient per rad with a medium flow.

That being said, any recommendations regarding pumps and/or the idea of having two pumps? :??: 
a c 330 K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 1:54:21 PM

Quote:
After hearing that OCed GTX 480s draw "400 and 500W on the first card and 300 to 400W on the second" from their advertised 250W max, I'm not sure how much to trust the 244W max advertised for the GTX 580s


Where did you hear this? Seems like a very large jump that would require a volt mod, but depending on OC, I suppose it's possible.

Quote:
Considering how much restriction my LC system is probably gonna have and considering I don't really have some especially good fans, I dunno what kind of pump I'll need to get these to dissipate anywhere near a reasonable amount of heat


Are you meaning flow restriction or FPI/rad airflow restriction? Or both? What do you feel makes your loop plan overly restrictive? AC rads can be a bit more restrictive than other brands (EU tends to favor lower flow, lower ID, higher restriction, higher head pressure).

a b K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 2:20:40 PM

that sounds about right 1 rad per component or 1 extreme rad for the whole system depending on how you want to build it. the reason I use such a large PSU is to insure that the clock is not blocked by not enough power most of the wattage readings for hardware are done in the first 10 minutes of operation. so the added wattage requirement for that component with heat is not calculated, but if you will notice the size of the PSU that they use for their testing it is very large, and for the same reason. they just don't mention it directly but they do suggest using a large PSU in order to get to that clock speed on that hardware.

**edit http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-480-liquid-co... **

pretty good indicator of the watts needed

** edit http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-580-review/7 **

the 580 stock with no O clocking and the wattage used
a c 78 K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 3:30:41 PM

is that a scion TC in your avatar rubix? if so we refer to it as a Toyota Premio/Allion
a c 330 K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 3:35:35 PM

Lutfij said:
is that a scion TC in your avatar rubix? if so we refer to it as a Toyota Premio/Allion


Yep, that's my current daily driver. I took that photo a while back and have it as my GPS welcome screen. I've seen a few of the FR-S's around work and like how they look, curious to know how they drive.

Larger pic (click to enlarge thumb):
June 20, 2012 5:40:31 PM

rubix_1011 said:
Where did you hear this? Seems like a very large jump that would require a volt mod, but depending on OC, I suppose it's possible.


I was quoting Toolmaker, though a bit of googling did reveal that others routinely hit over 300W and even around 350 when OCing.

rubix_1011 said:
Are you meaning flow restriction or FPI/rad airflow restriction? Or both? What do you feel makes your loop plan overly restrictive? AC rads can be a bit more restrictive than other brands (EU tends to favor lower flow, lower ID, higher restriction, higher head pressure).


I was thinking about flow restriction. Especially if I get more than one rad or one of those 3x3x120 rads. I was also under the impression that AC rads weren't really restrictive or at least not much more than most others (based on http://skinneelabs.com/2011-2012-radiator-comparison/2/ , though I might be misinterpreting it). In any case, what kind of pumps should I be looking at if I wanted to get a decent flow through two gpu blocks, a cpu block and two 420/360 rads from AC? :??: 

toolmaker_03 said:
that sounds about right 1 rad per component or 1 extreme rad for the whole system depending on how you want to build it. the reason I use such a large PSU is to insure that the clock is not blocked by not enough power most of the wattage readings for hardware are done in the first 10 minutes of operation. so the added wattage requirement for that component with heat is not calculated, but if you will notice the size of the PSU that they use for their testing it is very large, and for the same reason. they just don't mention it directly but they do suggest using a large PSU in order to get to that clock speed on that hardware.

**edit http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-480-liquid-co... **

pretty good indicator of the watts needed

** edit http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-580-review/7 **

the 580 stock with no O clocking and the wattage used


I'm most likely going to use two 1kW PSUs which should both have ample power on the 12V rails for two cards each. Also just so I'm sure, you're suggesting I get a 360 rad for each card?
a c 100 K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 5:52:04 PM

360 each? No, the general rule of thumb is 120mm space per heat source, although with high powered sources we could say at least 2x120mm, so 8x120mm space in total for the system. If you use bigger rads, it becomes easier, say for example that would be around the area of 4x180mm rads. It also depends on the delta you care for. It's easy to WC with a little less rad space if you don't mind temps being a little higher than they could otherwise be, if it means a much easier build.
a b K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 5:54:14 PM

yes i have tryed the 3 240's before 1 for each card and CPU. it was not enough to cool the system it worked but only for about 4 houres before the system was too hot but with 360's it is no longer a problem the 240's will handel the CPU without issue i am a little over rading right now with 2 240's and 2 360's but not by much just by 1 240 rad but i needed to equalize my system because I am running a parallel loop so I added the extra 240
a c 330 K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 6:04:52 PM

Quote:
No, the general rule of thumb is 120mm space per heat source, although with high powered sources we could say at least 2x120mm, so 8x120mm space in total for the system


This is a simple way to determine, but almost always leaves you well over-radded for your loop. I usually suggest totaling the sum of each component's TDP, assume 85-90% of that and buy accordingly. Either way is still relatively helpful.

Quote:
I was quoting Toolmaker, though a bit of googling did reveal that others routinely hit over 300W and even around 350 when OCing.


It certainly isn't impossible, but seemed a bit high to me. Regardless, it's within the realm of possibilities and I'm not arguing that at all.
a b K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 6:24:13 PM

well I got my watts by using the watt tester that you can get from your local power company. I plug it into the wall and the computer into it, and it shows real time wattage usage. what I look for are the peeks if the power supply cannot cover the peeks than the clock will not be stable. a lot of testing places use a average wattage usage over a period of time and that is not the best way to do it and the fact that there still testing with PSU's much larger than what they say is necessary is kind of wrong. if they are not willing to do it than neither am I. but i have not ever tried using a power supply just big enough to do the job i try to make it so that i have a 100w or so to spare at least.
a c 100 K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 6:45:11 PM

toolmaker_03 said:
well I got my watts by using the watt tester that you can get from your local power company. I plug it into the wall and the computer into it, and it shows real time wattage usage. what I look for are the peeks if the power supply cannot cover the peeks than the clock will not be stable. a lot of testing places use a average wattage usage over a period of time and that is not the best way to do it and the fact that there still testing with PSU's much larger than what they say is necessary is kind of wrong. if they are not willing to do it than neither am I. but i have not ever tried using a power supply just big enough to do the job i try to make it so that i have a 100w or so to spare at least.


That's what most power consumption tests do, but you need to bear in mind that a PSU will draw more power from the wall than it is outputting to your PC. Most PSUs are in the 80-85% efficiency range, so if you're drawing 500W on your power tester, then the PC is only using around 425W. That difference is gone as heat, which is a good reason why it's important to buy a good PSU. My next one will probably be at least 80 Plus Gold if not Platinum.

So basically if you have a 750W PSU, and it's quite good at full load it will have 80% efficiency and can also actually supply that 750W to the PC. So you should expect a reading of 900W from the wall.
a b K Overclocking
June 20, 2012 7:31:48 PM

ok that makes since, I like the fact that you consider the heat as watts so do I. so for example when my reader was reading 1368W at peek and 1140W sustained the board is only pulling 1140W peek so I wasn't maxing the power supply out as I thought that makes me feel much better. I was considering putting the other 1000W PSU I have for the motherboard and the 1250W PSU for the video cards.
June 21, 2012 12:06:06 AM

Okay, looks like I got the rad thing kinda cleared up now. But I'm still at a complete loss regarding what kind of pump(s) I'll need. I definitely want to get the best flow I can, because I would rather pay more for the pump than having to crank up the fans and work next to something that sounds like a jet taking off. I'll most probably run something like two cards and the cpu with a 360+360 or 360+240 rad combo.
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