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Psu graphics help

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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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December 19, 2009 1:42:19 AM

i had to take my computer to a tech shop to get it fixed.

they replaced my psu with a 450W one without a sticker to tell me the amps on the 12 volt line, or else its on the other side of the psu.

i have a gforce 6800, and it has enough power to run that, but even my old one with 18 amps could do that.

im looking at the ati line of cards, mainly because of lower power usage, and cheaper cards all around.

is there a way through software to find out the amps?

worst case, what is the best card you believe i can put in with that psu?

More about : psu graphics

a c 376 U Graphics card
December 19, 2009 1:49:09 AM

It's impossible to tell I guess. Are there no markings you can see on the PSU at all? Or you can't call and ask the brand/model?
Without any more info I would say most PSUs other than really weak ones can handle an HD4670. It's a good card for low resolution gaming and several times more powerful than your 6800.
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December 19, 2009 3:30:15 AM

im getting a 1920x1200 monitor for Christmas, can it play games at that rez so long as i don't go all out on the other settings?

there are no mark that i can see, i have to take a side panel off that is not suppose to come off to make 100% sure

and i cant call them till Monday at the eairliest
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Related resources
December 19, 2009 3:43:09 AM

that power supply just has to have a label with the info...
you may be right, just unscrew and check the other side. depending on the case you may just be able to remove the other side panel and take a peek.

Most ppl don't pay attention to the PSU, when in fact it's a really important part of the system... it provides efficiency to save you money and clean power for longevity and system stability.

If that PSU doesn't have a label period, I would seriously consider getting a new one. corsair is a bit pricey but they make some of the best computer PSU's in the market.

I have the 520 unit and it runs quiet and stable (note corsair is pretty conservative with their ratings....I'll put my PSU against some no-name 600 watt unit anyday)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fs%3Fie%3DUTF8%26ref_%3Dnb%255Fss%26field-keywords%3Dcorsair%2520psu%26url%3Dsearch-alias%253Daps&tag=slickdealssd-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=390957
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December 19, 2009 6:56:51 AM

if the psu i have is bad, than i can live with it for a while. i don't need better graphics card atm. but i would love to know if i will be forced to upgrade it along with my graphics card when i do upgrade.
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a b U Graphics card
December 19, 2009 7:24:03 AM

Personally, I would go back to the repair shop and beat their asses.
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a b U Graphics card
December 19, 2009 7:58:01 AM

It shouldnt be that hard to look and see...

If you do decide to buy a new one ignore that link from amazon-- newegg has the same corsair models for cheaper. A 400w or 450w corsair is enough for all but the beefiest graphics cards.

If you have a 6 pin connector im certain you could run at least a 4770 or GTS 250-- which would be a big step up.
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a c 247 U Graphics card
December 19, 2009 4:40:15 PM

alidan said:
im looking at the ati line of cards, mainly because of lower power usage, and cheaper cards all around.


While that has historically been true, the tables have turned of late....ATI holds the top dog spot at the high end and nVidia dominates the lower budget ranges:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-310-5970,24...

Here's the "winners" from THG's latest (December) GFX Roundup
Best Graphics Cards For The Money: December '09


$50 - HD 4650
$65 - HD 4670 / 9600 GSO
$85 - 9600 GT
$95 - 9600 GT / HD 4830
$110 - GTS 250 512 MB
$120 - GTS 250 1 GB
$155 - HD 5770 / GTX 260
$200 - HD 4890
$240 - 2 x GTS 250
$310 - No winner (HD 5850 Honorable Mention)
$330 - 2 x GTX 260 / 2 x HD 5770
$400 - 2 x HD 4890
$410 - No winner (HD 5870 Honorable Mention)
$465 - No winner (GTX 295 Honorable Mention)
$625 - No winner (HD 5970 Honorable Mention)

As for ya PSU, ....tell the shop, no label, no pay.

use this to calculate your size after you finalize your GFX situation

http://www.antec.outervision.com/
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December 19, 2009 6:46:14 PM



it was on the other side of my case.

im taking a guess that its a piece of ***, because of the high amp non 12 volt lines.

and i remember contacting ati a few months ago and being told any card within the last 4 years requires at minimum 36amps on the 12 volt and recommended 52amps, but they also told me that for 2 cards you need over 100 amps so im guessing they are being generous with that number.

if it helps im running 3 hard drives i believe thay are all 7200rpm
1 dvd drive

and my cpu is a amd phenom II 955 black running stock.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 19, 2009 7:13:17 PM

ATI either flat out lied to you or you are misremembering.
That PSU is likely more than fine for an HD5770. It's a good choice for 1920x1200, especially if your board is crossfirable so you can add another later on. You will want a new PSU for that though.
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December 19, 2009 7:25:00 PM

here, this is the email that i got back when i asked them about it. and yea, i mis remembered a part, they told me later in the email 70+ amps for 2 cards.

> *Most of our modern video cards – starting with the Radeon HD2XXX series –
> do require you to have at least 38 amps on the 12 volt rail; anything below
> that would introduce a factor of instability to your system being how 38
> amps is the bare minimum requirement for a single GPU solution while
> taking into consideration a basic computer system. If you wanted to go with
> a multi-GPU solution, you’d pretty much need to nearly double the amount of
> current on the combined 12 volt rail in order to be on the safe side with
>enough overhead room. *

im going to look into that gpu you mentioned a bit and get back here when i do.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 19, 2009 7:51:17 PM

Yeah, that's simply not true at all. Power = voltage x current so 38 amps on the 12v rail would mean they are telling you any computer with a video card uses at least 456 watts of power. Here's a chart from the Tom's review of the HD5770;
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5770,2446...
As you can see in NONE of the systems use anything close to that and those numbers are for the entire system, not just the 12v rail.
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December 19, 2009 7:56:40 PM

ok,

do you have a number for the gforce 6800 ultra power usage? just so i can be confident when i buy a replacement.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 19, 2009 8:01:50 PM

On average the 6800 Ultra uses approximately 72 watts of power under load compared to 78 watts for the HD5770.
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December 19, 2009 8:09:21 PM

alidan said:
and i remember contacting ati a few months ago and being told any card within the last 4 years requires at minimum 36amps on the 12 volt and recommended 52amps, but they also told me that for 2 cards you need over 100 amps so im guessing they are being generous with that number.


They are being more than generous - they're being downright silly. They're recommending 52a * 12v = 624 watts for a single card released within the last 4 years. 624 watts. To put that into perspective, the Radeon 5870 is rated to have a maximum board power of 188 watts (source), which turns out to be 188w / 12v = 15.667 amps needed on the 12v rail.
It's really puzzling why graphics card companies suddenly decided to massively inflate the stated PSU requirements. You do not need a 1500w power supply to run a pair of 4870s, nor do you need an 800w PSU to run a single 5870. You still need a good, high quality PSU for sure, but it doesn't need to have the output of a nuclear reactor.

As for your PSU specifically....I don't have much faith in it. Your CPU has a maximum rating of 125w, which turns out to be 10.417a and your other 4 drives mean you're looking at about 15 amps reserved on the 12v rail for non-GPU components. You'll probably never use more than 8 or 10 of those amps at any given time, but we have to plan for worst cast scenarios.
The label claims you have 17 amps left to play with, but being an off-brand power supply, the unit probably can't do a full 32 amps. Its efficiency will probably take a massive nosedive too once you start pushing it hard, which could again result in an underpowered system. I wouldn't use anything stronger than a 9800 GT or a 4850, and even then I'd probably be a little nervous.

Personally, I'd recommend just getting a new high-quality PSU, a powerful GPU, and the not worrying about it at all :) 
Hold onto your current PSU for a backup, though. That two or three day wait for a new PSU feels like an eternity when your system is down.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 19, 2009 8:24:32 PM

efeat said:
I wouldn't use anything stronger than a 9800 GT or a 4850, and even then I'd probably be a little nervous.

An HD5770 actually uses slightly less power than a (regular) 9800GT and lot less than an HD4850. Maxing out all of his components at once(a very unlikely scenario) should use at most 23 amps. So unless those specifications on the psu are very wrong he should have no problems.
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December 19, 2009 8:45:11 PM

i had to take my computer in for emergency tech support, and they screwed me on the cost of everything.

new psu - off brand, and generally crappy but works - 80$
new motherboard - decent board, but 100$ more than newegg price - 180$
phenom II 955 - great cpu, slightly over priced - 200$

labor - forgot to hook up dvd drive, and put gpu power plug into it, had to do noting software wise because i kept harddrives so i could do it myself. - 200$

all in all it cam to 680$ and than getting a new boot drive, the cheapest best buy had for cost:gb ratio - 110$

im kind of screwed money wise, so i cant get a 550watt crusar like i had planned for after Christmas.

but after Christmas i will have enough for a new gpu, and thats about it, everything else new like psu and os will come in about 6 months to about a year when i have cash to burn
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 19, 2009 9:13:41 PM

Yeah, you got screwed. Sounds like they basically built you a new computer(while recycling some of your old parts) at an inflated price instead of actually fixing the old one.
I do think the HD5770 should be fine for your current setup though.
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December 19, 2009 10:45:24 PM

my motherboard was short circuited, and the old psu was at the end of its life too.

and would i keep a p4, or get something new if all the main components had to be replaced anyway?

when they said 600$ i accepted it as 100 psu, 100 mobo and 250 cpu (what they told me it would cost) and 150$ labor. but o well, could have been worse, they could have given me a shitty motherboard too, at least i know the one i have is good.

sadly it probably would have taken me more than a month to fix, they got it done in a week, i'm pissed it costed that much, but i'm at least happy that it works great.

how close do you think im cutting it if i get a hd 5770 gpu psu wise?
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 19, 2009 10:59:57 PM

Yeah, a p4 is ancient and best replaced, especially if you plan on gaming.
As for how close you are cutting it with the HD5770 the answer is not very if those specs on the PSU are anything close to reality. The specs say it should be able to handle about 50% more power than you could theoretically need and the max in theory is likely much higher than you will ever actually be using.
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December 19, 2009 11:55:55 PM

ok, now i have some amount of confidence in it.

is the 5770 a good card though?
the alternative that im looking at is the hd 4850.

i believe that both cards are capable of fitting in my computer, one is about 40$ more than the other though.

im planing on going to windows 7 by next Christmas, along with getting a true boot drive, most likely a solid state.

im not to big on gaming at the moment, there are games i would buy in a heart beat if i knew they would play at at least 30fps at 1920x1200, or even at 1280x768 (i believe that is the 16:10 720p equivalent)

most of what i play has problems or major hiccups, though i dont know if that was gpu or cpu related, haven't touched a game sense i got my computer back, had more important things to get running right first.

what i mainly wanted a new gpu for before i got the new cpu was for video play back, but now im able to flawlessly play 1080p,

all i can really think of using a new gpu for is making old games play better, and be able to get my hands on some of the newer ones.

here is another main question, do any of you see anything new coming for dx11? something that would make older dx11 cards not as good as newer ones to come?
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December 20, 2009 12:15:13 AM

i just went back and loaded up kotor,

i couldn't even get 7fps at 800x600 in the area im in, but now with graphics maxed at 1024x768 i get a very playable frame rate. could be a bit better, but im guessing it will be like that for most games now.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 20, 2009 12:34:13 AM

Newer cards, as always, will likely be more powerful but other than that no. DX11 is a technical specification. When they change it it will be called DX12 and that will take several years.
An HD5770 is a good amount better than the HD4850. Think of it basically as a smaller, more power efficient, DX11 compatible HD4870.
It is a pretty good card for 1920x1200. You should be able to max out the setting on almost any game and get above 30 fps. It may struggle slightly on the most graphic intensive games if you max out the setting and use a large amounts of AA but turning down the AA should fix that.
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December 20, 2009 12:51:29 AM

jyjjy said:
An HD5770 actually uses slightly less power than a (regular) 9800GT and lot less than an HD4850. Maxing out all of his components at once(a very unlikely scenario) should use at most 23 amps. So unless those specifications on the psu are very wrong he should have no problems.


Good call on the 5770, I had forgotten about that. The 9800 GT and 4850 use nearly identical power, though, at least according to this page in an older tom's article.

OP, from the sounds of it, you're not a real intense gamer so you shouldn't really need anything stronger than the 5770. It will run any game in existence so long as you're willing to live with some lowered visuals on the more demanding titles, which you've already stated you're OK with. Your PSU should be able to handle it, but off-brand PSUs can vary wildly. You might have a craptastic one that dies quickly, or you might have an awesome unit that works flawless for years. It's kinda luck of the draw.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 20, 2009 1:15:33 AM

That page doesn't even list the 9800GT just the 9800GTX, but it does have the 8800GT which is basically the same card(9800GT should use slightly less power I believe.) In fact it has 2 of them and quite oddly it lists the one with twice as much memory as using 33 less watts under load. So something is clearly wrong there.
I was going based on this;
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5770/28.html
and this;
http://forums.atomicmpc.com.au/index.php?showtopic=264
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December 20, 2009 1:50:41 AM

jyjjy said:
Newer cards, as always, will likely be more powerful but other than that no. DX11 is a technical specification. When they change it it will be called DX12 and that will take several years.
An HD5770 is a good amount better than the HD4850. Think of it basically as a smaller, more power efficient, DX11 compatible HD4870.
It is a pretty good card for 1920x1200. You should be able to max out the setting on almost any game and get above 30 fps. It may struggle slightly on the most graphic intensive games if you max out the setting and use a large amounts of AA but turning down the AA should fix that.


at 1920x1200 i believe i would never use AA, i may turn it on ar first to see how something plays, but thats it.

and also

dx9.0
dx9.0b
dx9.0c
dx9.0* (i forget the other letter)
dx10
dx10.1

you see where im comeing from when i say a revision with that list right?

but as far as everyone knows, there is nothing planned right?
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 20, 2009 2:21:39 AM

The revisions are usually minor and when they require new hardware the features rarely get used(ala DX10.1)
Anyway, no, DX11 was just released with the new Windows and there are only a handful of games for it out at this point. Any revisions will take a while.
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December 20, 2009 4:53:42 AM

back when dx9 was going through its revisions, i didnt have a computer that would benefit from those cards. i got a new computer after 9.0c was out.

did the 9.0 - 9.0c require new hardware to take advantage of it or was it all software?
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December 20, 2009 9:55:10 AM

from my understanding it is a 450watt, or at least on paper that is.

and for 500 watt i have seen FAR higher amps than 32.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 20, 2009 7:05:19 PM

No, on paper at least it is 550w. It says so right on the label, it's even in the model #.
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December 20, 2009 10:18:06 PM

here

that is a 450watt from CORSAIR

+3.3V@20A,+5V@20A,+12V@33A,-12V@0.8A,+5VSB@2.5A

that is a 550watt
+3.3V@30A,+5V@20A,+12V@41A,-12V@0.8A,+5VSB@3A

by that my psu is more comparable to a 450 than a 550. because its easier to make higher amp 3.3 and 5 volt rails, lesser psu's make them bigger so they can pad the numbers and have a higher rated psu.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 20, 2009 10:26:35 PM

Your current PSU is 550w and the amperages are typical. Corsair PSUs are some of the best on the market and shouldn't be compared to an older off brand PSU. If you want to say your PSU likely isn't any better than a Corsair 450w then I would agree but a 450w Corsair would also be a fine choice to run a system like yours with an HD5770.
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December 20, 2009 11:18:09 PM

i just looked at psus on newegg, and holy crap. i mean i never looked at non well known brands, but come on. i seen a 12 amp 450watt, at the same time a 50 some amp 500watt.

i have to say that its not the worst psu out there, but its far from the best, sadly i payed more for that than i would have with a 450 Corsair.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 20, 2009 11:39:42 PM

Yeah, you got screwed on that. But at least it doesn't seem to be terrible.
The lesson to take away here is to build/upgrade computers on your own. Otherwise you will likely get shafted both on price and quality of parts.
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December 21, 2009 12:02:27 AM

sadly the problem is something that would have taken me at least a month to find out.

shipping a new psu for 1
finding a compatible csu fan
finding a new motherboard compatible with everything in my old computer, and getting the confidence to get that, and a new cpu and finding the confidence to install that for the first time.

all that togeather would have taken at least a month, probably 300$ cheaper, but the computer got fixed and i got screwed with in a week
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 21, 2009 12:08:40 AM

Nah, those questions could easily be answered for you quickly on sites like this. Assuming you have access to another computer.
Actually installing all these parts is easier than you would think. It's basically all just using a screwdriver, putting things in slots and connecting cables. Nothing particularly difficult.
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December 21, 2009 12:22:02 AM

about 2 days before this computer was fixed and back in my hands, i built my little brother a computer. the cpu and how to put the head sync on were the only things left i never did to a computer, otherwise i have replaced video cards, ram, psu's, hdds cd drives.

the only curveball was hooking the case up to the computer. and even than, it all worked out.

but the motherboard. i sware to god i could kill the person who thought having the "ever things ok light" be red. i thought i screwed up something and killed at least 1 if not all the components.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 21, 2009 12:26:02 AM

lol
Yeah, connecting the buttons/lights/usb from the case to the motherboard can be annoying. Putting in a CPU is very simple. Mounting the fan/heat sink used to be a bitch but on current computers it's much easier than it used to be and not something to be worried about.
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December 21, 2009 2:36:57 AM

i was watching videos of after market cpu heat syncs, you know those huge monstrosity that are really only necessary if you over-clock. i was watching them not having a clue what to do.

but the athlon quad i put into it had another problem. putting the heat sync on i had to move a plastic part and i thought i was going to break it or bend the metal and the thing would be screwed.

and a new thing with the gpu,
im reading that ati has bad drivers, is that true or is that nvidia fans saying ati drivers suck because a glitch that happens 1% of the time for them happens 1.5% of the time for ati cards. is it something i should be concerned with?
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