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ATI 5750 1GB or Asus GTS 250 Dark knight?

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December 21, 2009 7:41:35 AM

i am considering to buy vga card. which is good?Gigabyte ATI 5750 1GB, 128 bit or Asus GTS 250 Dark knight 1GB, 256 bit? i don't know much about graphic card, i just want to play smoothly with 1280 x 1024 resolution and if could with very high graphic settings. i read about CUDA on nvidia and i don't fully understand of it but i think its cool and with its dark knight cooler which is very cool. an addition that 250 gts has 256 bit, is bit important for graphic card? i heard that ATI is also good but i don't know much about ATI. because i never use ATI before but my gut tells me that i should try ATI. i am in dilemma, i want to hear opinions before i get the new vga card tomorrow.
a c 189 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 21, 2009 8:00:17 AM

If u want me to choose then i'll take HD 5750 cause it's efficiency and dx11 ability...
Yes, i know it's only 128bit...
Your reso is just 1280x1024, surely this card will work perfectly.
Make sure your PSU is enough to handle that card...
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a b U Graphics card
December 21, 2009 8:00:35 AM

Both cards are good.
They perform nearly the same.
I would prefer HD 5750 over GTS250 as it has DX11 support and its power consumption is lower than GTS 250.

But if there is a big price difference then get GTS 250.
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December 21, 2009 8:08:28 AM

wa1 said:
If u want me to choose then i'll take HD 5750 cause it's efficiency and dx11 ability...
Yes, i know it's only 128bit...
Your reso is just 1280x1024, surely this card will work perfectly.
Make sure your PSU is enough to handle that card...

yeah, i will go for 5750. i just bought psu gigabyte superb720W but i have 6 fan on my pc, two harddisk,1 DVD ROM, 1 DVD-R/Rw. 2stick ddram 667 and E7300 @ 2.66 Ghz. is my psu compatible?
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December 21, 2009 8:17:52 AM

yes, that is it. thanks a lot wa1.
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a c 171 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 21, 2009 2:55:45 PM

Unless you actually have something that would use PhysX, get the 5750. PhysX only works on games coded for it, and I see more DX10.1/11 games coming then PhysX games. (not that way right now.) You could also get whichever is cheaper, by the time PhysX/DX11 games come out that you want to play you might need to upgrade again.
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a c 171 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 22, 2009 3:41:34 AM

Quote:
The Dark Knight GTS250 is better for you - it's faster, and since you mentioned Dark Knight the awesome new Batman Ark. Asy. game has massive PhysX.


Dark Knight is the cooler/edition of the card. If your going to suggest things, at least get your story straight. We also don't yet know how real in game Tessellation will work. If games require it, your 250 won't be able to play it. If its like AA, then the 5750 will be able to run it, just at 2x. I'm also not sure the GTS250 is faster then the 5750. If it is, it isn't by much. In short your post is nearly fail, at least the second sentence is for sure. DK is the card, not the new Batman game.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 22, 2009 4:00:56 AM

Yes, ignore the fan boy. Physx will be replaced by non-proprietary physics acceleration as time goes on and the only reason DX11 isn't already more important is because it just came out while physx has been around for years.
In terms of pure performance the HD5750 is slightly faster than the GTS 250. The difference in bus size is a non-factor as the HD5750 also uses DDR5 instead of DDR3 which overall means it has slightly higher memory bandwidth.
That said, either card will be great for your resolution. The question is whether you think the features the HD5750 offers(DX11, great power efficiency, 3 monitor support) are worth the extra money to you. If you are considering getting a larger monitor in the not too distant future spending slighltly more for the HD5770 is well worth it imo.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 22, 2009 4:06:37 AM

Another thing to consider is if your motherboard is crossfire compatible, SLI or both.
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a c 189 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 22, 2009 4:41:18 AM

Yes, agree with jyjjy, ignore the fanboy...
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December 22, 2009 7:44:59 AM

ye get the 5750 and enjoy the problems that come with the 5700 series omg..
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 23, 2009 7:31:08 AM

Jesus man, PhysX has been around forever. Batman is the ONE major game where it makes any real difference and that was mainly a design choice that had nothing to do with the technology. PhysX adds 3 things to the game, volumetric fog, paper that bends and moves and mildly destructible environments. They purposely chose to leave out non PhysX fog when it could've easily been implemented and the difference would've been minimal. I'm not even sure why the destructible environments required PhysX because other games have pulled it off without such on a much larger scale. That leaves freakin realistic sheets of paper. Who cares really?
You are obviously massively biased. Before you accuse me of the same I have never even owned an ATI card, always Nvidia, but right now ATI is simply the obvious choice. DX11 is much more important to future games, something you'll likely realize/admit to yourself the instant Nvidia releases a DX11 card but not a second sooner.
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December 23, 2009 7:39:38 AM

Get the gts250 now and sell it in the future to get stronger dx11 cards, when the prices of these cards go down.

i really think the 5750 is a flop because dx11 is more demanding the dx10, but the 5750 only performs like a 250/4850. So if we're talking about 5750, i think "future proofing" would be non existent because this card would be already too weak when dx11 will go mainstream. yes it would be dx11 compatible, but it won't be able to serve playable framerates, so whats the point? probably it could if you play on all low settings which is.. blah.
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December 23, 2009 7:42:57 AM

well, im suggesting the gts 250 cuz afaik, it's $20 or more cheaper. but if you could buy the radeon for the same price, go for it.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 23, 2009 7:58:00 AM

He is looking for a card for 1280 x 1024. Even with demanding DX11 settings an HD5750 will likely do decently at that resolution.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 23, 2009 8:35:04 AM

For an example of REAL destructible environments check out Red Faction: Guerilla. Like a boatload of other major games it uses HAVOK instead of PhysX most likely precisely because it is an effective non-proprietary physics engine that doesn't require specific hardware. Batman: AA doesn't even have destructible environments in comparison to that game but then the same can be said of almost every other game.
Yes, DirectX "has been around forever" and almost every current game is based on it so I have no idea what you are babbling about there.
The rest of your comment is barely coherent and even if it were understandable I doubt it would be worth responding to.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 23, 2009 9:01:06 AM

That game is so obscure it was released on both consoles as well and between the 3 versions it has 167 reviews by magazines/websites on metacritic(mostly very good reviews as well.)
DX11 also works on Vista... and unless you want to pay extra for a box the price of all versions of Windows 7 ranges between $105 and $175 on Newegg at the moment. Your biased, misinformed, often unintelligible ranting is really tiresome. Give it a rest already.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 23, 2009 9:28:36 AM

What the hell are you talking about? You seriously use Newegg comments as your source for game reviews??
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/redfaction...
It has an average of 83 which is quite good. The user reviews are even better at 8.8. I only even mentioned the game because YOU asked about something very specific. And I have played Batman, it's a great game, but it is also great even on an ATI card I'm sure despite the lack of fog.
The number one rule of the internet is don't feed the trolls though and I'm aware of it. The only excuse I have for responding still is boredom I guess, but I think I will stop now.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
December 23, 2009 9:31:36 AM

You make me sad
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a c 189 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 23, 2009 9:51:43 AM

jyjjy, just ignore that "silly"condoc...
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December 23, 2009 10:29:49 AM

hey guys, what were u all arguing were a little bit complicated for me to understand. i bought the 5750 gigabyte and i want to share my opinion about both nvidia and ATI. this is not technical comment because i don't know much about both technologies.but from my experience of gaming and i have an experience using both of them. when i gaming, i noticed that using nvidia is a little bit realistic on the aspect of movement. such as object movements, explosion, fire, and etc. i think maybe it is because the physics engine that nividia has it. on ATI, i noticed that the movements is a little bit stiff but the color is fantastic. nvidia color on screen is a little bit unrealistic. this is just my opinion based on my experience, i don't know if it is not reliable. anyway, what games now using dx11? i already have windows 7.
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December 23, 2009 11:04:36 AM

jyjjy said:
He is looking for a card for 1280 x 1024. Even with demanding DX11 settings an HD5750 will likely do decently at that resolution.


With the current games, gts 250's power is only up to 1280x1024 or 1440x900 when you crank the settings to the max. if you max out aa/af too, you might struggle a bit already, trust me.

if im not mistaken, tom's get high frame rates on their tests because they game on a newly formatted (cleanly installed OS, and game) system, but when you game on a common fragmented, fully loaded hard disk, spyware/malware/virus infected, and what not system ---(this will really happen overtime, not unless you reformat every month or so). you WILL have some stutters in your game if you set the details high.
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a c 171 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 23, 2009 1:16:22 PM

Quote:
Liars make me angry


Rich coming from you.

The OP NEVER said he wanted to play Batman AA. NEVER. Its a card, not the game. Here is the link.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Thats the card. It doesn't even come with the game. Look at the sub title.

Quote:
ASUS Dark Knight Quad-Pipes Cooling Design


Not the game, its a COOLER. Has this sank in yet? Seeing as you brought it up, we have no idea if the OP even wants to play this game.

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Sure his psu might be fine, but he had better check his motherboard as well - there are some compatibility issues with the 5750.


Link please. There are some driver issues. No surprise seeing as its a "new" card. I haven't heard of any compatibility issues.

Quote:
Go look at the tesselation vids on youtube and see the 5970 CRIPPLED to a crawl with tesselation and then hit a few benchmarks on these review sites, "mr i don't know a thing".


Go read the review on HardOCP. Assuming its scalable like AA, it won't be a problem. If you max out AA on a midrange cards they to will be unplayable. Just because the demo went full out to show what it CAN do doesn't mean games will use it to its full extent.

Lucky for us I hate liers to.

Edited to fix bolding.
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a c 171 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 23, 2009 3:50:59 PM

I'm actually with bruce on this. The cards perform close to each other, its pointless to spend more for one. (unless you really want to have the next level of DX now.) Let me show you what I mean.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/11/10/need_for_spee...

Scroll down to the bottom, how does the 5750 compare to the GTS250? Same settings, basically the same scores, the 5750 comes out .1FPS faster on average.

I guess I'll show Borderlands for the GTS250 win.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/11/30/borderlands_g...

This is the first resolution where one of the cards at least has everything on, and its the GTS250. Not only that, its faster to. Looking at other benchmarks the 5770 is a closer match to the GTX250, but the 5750 can keep up in some games.

There is so far one game out that truly can use PhysX. DX11 is new and probably RIGHT NOW doesn't have one. I refuse to believe for one moment that there will be more DX9+10 games using PhysX then there will be DX11 games. There will continue to be games here and there that use it well, but there will be plenty more DX11 games.

Troll talked about Tessellation bring the 5970to its knees, PhysX can do that as well. Take a look at this.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/10/19/batman_arkham...

At 2560x1600 with 4AA and PhysX at max, look what happens when you outside. Frame rates are nearly always under 30FPS, with a lot spent in the 21FPS and 6FPS range. Tessellation might be the same way. If you turn it up, it will choke. (again, similar to AA.) Hard also had this to say from the review.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/11/06/unigine_heave...

Quote:
While this Heaven Benchmark application isn’t an actual game, it does give us a glimpse of how Tessellation might be used in games. If used in this manner the benefits can be quite noticeable and greatly improve the gaming experience. There is a performance penalty for enabling it, as the creation of geometry on the fly does not come free...maybe we will see user adjustable controls that could allow us to vary the level of Tessellation depending on the user’s GPU abilities like much of the other eye candy we see in games.


Or in other words just because you saw something on youtube doesn't mean its going to end up that way.
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a c 171 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 23, 2009 10:24:52 PM

Quote:
You wouldn't suppose the words "Dark Knight GTS250" and "is better for you" indicates I was recommending a VIDEOCARD would you ?


Let me try this one more time.

Quote:
The Dark Knight GTS250 is better for you - it's faster, and since you mentioned Dark Knight the awesome new Batman Ark. Asy. game has massive PhysX.


Who mentioned Batman? It wasn't the OP.

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I'll wait for your non-coming APOLOGY.
:) 

I guess I'll have to change "liar" to "stupid as a rock", or "angry fool who can't read", or "trolling attack jerk" ?


Many of your posts (and not to just me) are like that. That's why I started calling you troll. Not only are your posts wrong, but the insults are a bit much.

Quote:
Which one ? Or should I just let you and the rest whack away as you lie your dumb noggins off ? What do you want me to do when it's the very first post I wrote ?

Am I to assume you are that thick ? Huh ? Or "you just missed it" ? Or, "you didn't read" ?


Where have I lied? Your the one who refuses to read. I put it in bold and Italics this time. Who suggested the game?

Quote:
Now how many other lies do I have to WASTE my time on ?


Again, what lie have I told? The OP never mentioned Batman, you did. I tried telling you it was a card, that the OP wasn't playing that game and you "insulted" me by telling me to get my movie trivia straight. I know what he goes by, I know who his butler is, I know what car he drives, I know what city he lives in, etc. I'm also smart enough to know how to read a post and answer the the OP asks. Not what I think he's into.

I would rather have a card that COULD play DX11 then one that I know won't. Turn off AA on that Battleforge chart and what do the frame rates become? You don't need much more to get playable (or at least over 30FPS) don't you think you could get them by turning off AA? Well, not you but I think you might. Turn down/off one or two other settings and your there. (or if you game at the res he games at, 1280x1024) Now try and do that with the GTS250. Who's got playable frame rates now?

To the OP, I'm sorry about all this. I see you bought your card, enjoy it. Assuming of course your still reading this thread. I really feel you couldn't have gone wrong either way.
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a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 24, 2009 2:45:38 AM

I don't think anyone that has ever read any of your threads takes you seriously. Not that everything you say is wrong, but you certainly have a very scewed perspective and an unhealth love affair with nVidia.
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
December 24, 2009 2:50:14 AM

Quote:
You get your movie trivia straight. Batman is called the Dark Knight, you less than aware poster.

Go look at the tesselation vids on youtube and see the 5970 CRIPPLED to a crawl with tesselation and then hit a few benchmarks on these review sites, "mr i don't know a thing".

We already have the test result and Dx11 tesselation hammers a 5870 into the dirt. Can you extrapolate from there to the tiny 5750 ? Let's hope you can, since benching that and showing it cave to near zero frames won't be pretty.

I mean take a look around, you're on the net, and a few games HAVE been tested, and the results ARE ALREADY OUT.

Thanks for playing joker.



LMAO Did you actually test it? I play Stalker with Tesslation and I get 80 Fps what you talking about? Unigine maxed out with Tesslation 8xAA 16xAF I get 57Fps at 1080p.
And yes you can , new drivers will improve Tesslation performence its so new compared to "Physless X". this is nVidia marketing strategy. I upgraded from a GTX 280 to a 5970.

--->silicondoc<--- I get 87Fps dx11 SSAO ON Battleforge 4xAA 1080p. I think you misunderstood some theory's, your mistaking SSAO for SSAA which is the new type of anti aliasing using circles called Super-sample anti-aliasing which doesnt really improve PQ( It is infact causing some blurriness reducing PQ) and put much more useless polygon function calculations on the videocard.
Hers an interesting article to divert your mind: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=14
Actually silicondoc, if you cant sleep without PhysX , you can always use ATi as primary videocard like a 5970 with a dedicated PhysX card like a GTX280 ;-)

I must say: see it and then believe it, then take a deep breath ....... Back to the op. I recommend a 5770 for the price difference, 5770 is more wroth it unless thers a very big price jump then the 5750 comes to mind. And Havok>>>> "Physless X"
I dont know but even on other forums nVidia fan boys are always depressed and use violence rather than logical thinking with scientific proofs, I wonder why?

EDIT: I saw you got the 5750, it will be plenty for that resloution Good choice.
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a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 24, 2009 3:19:13 AM

Quote:
LMAO Did you actually test it? I play Stalker with Tesslation and I get 80 Fps what you talking about? Unigine maxed out with Tesslation 8xAA 16xAF I get 57Fps at 1080p.
And yes you can , new drivers will improve Tesslation performence its so new compared to "Physless X". this is nVidia marketing strategy. I upgraded from a GTX 280 to a 5970.

--->silicondoc<--- I get 87Fps dx11 SSAO ON Battleforge 4xAA 1080p. I think you misunderstood some theory's, your mistaking SSAO for SSAA which is the new type of anti aliasing using circles called Super-sample anti-aliasing which doesnt really improve PQ( It is infact causing some blurriness reducing PQ) and put much more useless polygon function calculations.
Hers an interesting article to divert your mind: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=14
Actually silicondoc, if you cant sleep without PhysX , you can always use ATi as primary videocard like a 5970 with a dedicated PhysX card like a GTX280 ;-)

I must say: see it and then believe it, then take a deep breath ....... Back to the op. I recommend a 5770 for the price difference, 5770 is more wroth it unless thers a very big price jump then the 5750 comes to mind. And Havok>>>> "Physless X"


You might consider putting that 280 back in along side your 5970. Then you'd have the best of both worlds. I personally just installed an old 8800 GT into my system along with my 5870. Just look on the net for a guide to get past nVidia's lack of support if an ATI card is present and you should be fine.

I also agree with you about Tesselation. Yes, it takes a few FPS away, but it does make some programs come to life, like the Heaven demo. Dev's, when using it in games, will give you a scale most likely, or at least be a little less extreme and rather than having 80+ FPS without, you'll have 60 FPS with, or at least 40. That demo most likely isn't the most optimised either.

For most people, 40+ is all they need to be happy. If you go beyond that, then I just want more eye candy.

Oh, btw, I've been finding the super sample AA to be used a lot more than I expected. There are two games I've been playing where it makes huge improvements on AA. Dragon Age Origins and Risen (I like RPG's :p  ), the SSAA helps smooth out texture jaggies that MSAA leaves alone. Grass, and armor textures with scale plates look so much better with it on. Unfortunately it is more processor intensive, so I usually only go 4x SSAA, but that's better looking than 8x MSAA on those two games.
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a c 1363 U Graphics card
a c 299 Ĉ ASUS
December 24, 2009 4:10:23 AM

OP bought a card already about 30 posts ago. Is there any reason not to let this thread die. If you guys want to continue arguing about this topic you should open a new thread and see how long the mods let you get on with it.
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a c 216 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 24, 2009 4:22:48 AM

There is no lies. It's quiet once you finish installation.

It artifacted due to a driver bug, fixed. I never lied about that at all.

I never claimed they were defective, only that it's possible, sense most don't have those heat issues.

You are simply insane.
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a c 189 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 24, 2009 5:02:29 AM

Mods...
Do something about this fanboy...
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a c 171 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 24, 2009 5:32:45 AM

I agree. WA1 Its one thing to love a company, another to do nothing but call people names and lie out your @$$ about things. I still haven't recieved a link about those compatibility problems with the 5750. You want a game? Hard has a new review up.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/12/23/dirt_2_gamepl...

Dirt 2 at 1680x1050. The 5750 and the GTS250 are mostly equal. The 5750 is in DX11 mode, while the GTS250 is stuck at DX9. Yes it doesn't have any AA, but the GTS250 isn't using DX11. If the OP drops down to the res he actually uses, I'd bet he could enable 2AA if not 4. You wanted a game so bad, there you go. DX11, playable frame rates. Give DX11 more time, and there will be more games like this.
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a c 171 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 24, 2009 5:40:38 AM

Quote:
Ahh, now you THE LIAR 4745 have tossed your jackassed lie that I had no clue the Dark Knight referred to a GTS250, and ARE DOWN TO WHINING about Batman being mentioned.


I'm not whining about anything. I think its great that Nvidia has one game that plays really well on their hardware. With the problems they are having they need all the help they can get.

Please reply to this question with one word from the following options. Who mentioned the batman game? The OP, Silicondoc, 4745454b, or other. This should be good....
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a c 189 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 24, 2009 5:41:11 AM

Okay, i'm sorry for my rudeness for calling out your name many times...
I wouldn't do that again. :) 
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a c 169 U Graphics card
a b Ĉ ASUS
December 24, 2009 5:54:44 AM

This thread has a simple question,comparison of 2 VGA's and it could have been answered with some reliable benchmarks,but its gone way off-topic due to some posts,sorry guys i have to lock this thread.
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