Midrange i5 gaming system

[jrobo88]

I'm looking for some advice as I finish up building my new gaming pc.

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: next 2 weeks, Ideally (halfway done)

BUDGET RANGE: $900-$1000

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Warcraft, Call of Duty, surfing the web, movies

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers/headset

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: newegg.com

PARTS PREFERENCES: no specific preference

OVERCLOCKING: Not initially, but would be nice to have that option down the road

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Yes

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1440x900

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: I'm buying the components one at a time as extra spending money allows. So far I have accumulated the following:

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

GIGABYTE GA-P55-UD4P LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128400

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 HD322HJ 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152096

Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371015

Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066

This is what I am considering for the remainder of the components:

XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150447 $179.99

SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 22X DVD-R 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner LightScribe Support - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151188 $31.99

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754 $104.99

OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model OCZ3P1333LV4GK - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227478 $109.99/$89.99 after rebate

I have some questions, hopefully someone more expert than I can provide some good advice:

1) My Samsung drive is a bare drive - no cables. Which SATA cable should I get? are they all the same?

2) *** Do I need to also purchase an aftermarket CPU cooler? ***

3) I selected the XFX 5770 because it should run current games at 1440x900 without any issues, and it supports DX11. Is there any good reason to go with a different card?

4) There are 4 XFX 5770 video cards available on newegg. The XFX model numbers are almost identical, i.e. XFX HD-577A-ZNFC vs XFX HD-577X-ZNFC. What is the difference?

5) Is there anything else in this proposed build that I am overlooking?

Thanks in advance to all who can reply!

 

[rockyjohn]

1. Yes they are all the same - with some minor quality difference between manufacturers like anything. Pick from known brands. The only feature of note is wheher the connector goes straight in or at right angles, some have both of the same, others have one of each. Just pick what works best for your build. Particularly note how the mobo is set up - does it prefer a straight in connection or is it at right angles. Note that your mobo comes with two SATA cables - from the pictures it looks like one cable with two straight in connectors and one with two right angle ones. That should be adequate for your build.
2. You don't have to purchase an aftermarket HSF unless you plan more than a light OC, then it is a must. However even with stock settings, I would recommend one. You can get a good one for only $30-$40 and since heat is the enemy I would prefer to get rid of all I can.
3. That is a good card. One of the better brands, as you probably know. As always, if you can get a lager card it helps increase frame rates and allows more eye candy. I presume though you already know the capabilities of that card for the games you play and it is a good above mainstream card. The THG buyer's guide says "Great 1920x1200 performance in most games" - so at 1440x900 you should be very safe.
4. I am not sure if there is any difference in the first two @ $180. One may just be a later model or have a minor tweak. The other two are OC - look at the core and memory clock speeds and decide if the extra speed is worth the price.
5. The hard drive is a little small. The F1 version is not the faster one that everyone raves about. Here are a comple of drives on the THG chart for comparison - you might want to think about adding one when the one you have is full:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-3.5-desktop-hard-drive-charts/compare,1019.html?prod%5B3016%5D=on&prod%5B2371%5D=on&prod%5B2360%5D=on

But I think you have a nice build that should perform well.

 

[mrmez]

1.) The cables are all the same. You should be able to add one to ur order from the egg.
2.) Short answer. No. The stock cooler is fine for stock and mild overclocks. If you intend pushing the cpu, then you will need an aftermarket cooler and fan.
3.) Get the best you can afford. The 5770 is a respectable card, but there are plenty of people who will need more.
4.) Links? They may be clocked faster or slower (most likely), have different amounts of ram or different designs for cooling etc.
5.) Looks good

 

[jrobo88]

Guys, thanks for the responses, this is great.

This build is going to replace a 5 year old Dell (don't laugh) so even though I could have selected a better gfx card and HD, I expect it to crush the Dell's performance in all areas. When the time comes to add another HD, I will look into the list provided, thanks for the chart. I know that getting a 5800 series gfx card for 1440x900 would be overkill - but when the time comes to get a new monitor I'll get a new card as well.

Couple of followup questions:

1) I'm assuming that putting on a CPU cooler later - rather than now - would be a hassle. Can anyone recommend a specific cooler for my mobo? Comments like these on newegg concern me:

"Cons: The memory slots and fake North Bridge heatsink are quite close to the CPU (about half an inch of space between the boundary of the 4 heatsink pegs) which will make using a bulky aftermarket heatsinks either difficult or impossible without personal modifications."

"Cons: Now the only complaint I have is the layout of the board. Notice how close the RAM slot are the the CPU socket. I had a very difficult time getting my Arctic cooling CPU cooler to fit. I had to grind off part of the fan shroud because it hits the motherboard heat sinks. Once you get your CPU cooler on, you will have a hard time getting your RAM into place. I was only able to get my Corsair dominator Memory into place after removing the heat spreaders from one of the dimms. I have noticed that many other boards have moved the memory slots further from the CPU slot."

2) As far as system memory goes, I know that lower latency=faster=better, and that heat is my enemy. Is there any particular reason to go with something flashy like the G.Skill Ripjaws, or is the memory I listed in my first post going to be just fine? Ultimately I will check Gigabyte's list of approved memory, just looking for some additional advice if anyone has any.

Thanks again!

 

[rockyjohn]

1) I had the same problem on a different Gigabte mobo. I recommend this one:

XIGMATEK Intel Core i7 compatible Dark Knight-S1283V 120mm Long Life Bearing CPU Cooler - Retail - $45 plus free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233029

with this bracket set to fit your mobo:

XIGMATEK ACK-I5363 Intel Core i7/Core i5 compatible Bracket Set - Retail - $8 plus $6 shipping (they must be making a killing both on the price and shipping- but what can you do - paired with a great HSF it still is a value)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233039

If you compare the pic and specs with the Arctic Cooler, you will see the depth of the one above - both fan and heatsink - are approximately half the depth of the AC.

2) I would stick with what you selected. Here are two G.Skill options, the first from the mobo approved list and the second is the RipJaw - but both have poorer timings with the RipJaw the worst:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231189&Tpk=F3-10666CL8D-4GBHK
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231274

 

[banthracis]

Here's a nice build I put together. Upgrades you to the 5850, has the right HD =D and is still in budget. Ok well $0.71 over


CPU/ HSF combo
i5 and CM Hyper 212 Plus $220.82
(the best performing HSF for an i5 http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2419)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.296096

MOBO- P55 UD4 $139.99 UD4P extra features are disabled if you Xfire.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128404&Tpk=p55%20ud4

RAM- G Skill Ripjaw DDR3 1333 8-8-8-21 1.35v $91.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231275&cm_re=g_skill_ripjaw-_-20-231-275-_-Product

GPU - ATI HD 5850 $299.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102857&cm_re=5850-_-14-102-857-_-Product

HD Spinpoint F3 $54.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152181&cm_re=spinpoint_f3-_-22-152-181-_-Product

If not in stock Seagate 7200.12 $54.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148395&cm_re=7200.12-_-22-148-395-_-Product

Optical Drive
Doesn't really matter, any LG, Sony, LiteOn ~$30 SATA one works fine
Liteon one for $28.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106281

Case- Antec 300 $54.95
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066

PSU Corsair 650TX $98.99 $78.99 after MIR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005&Tpk=650tx

OS Win 7 pro or Premium for $30 at http://www.win741.com/ Find a random college student if you aren't one.

Total $1000.71 after MIR

edit: Sad part is this same build was $50 cheaper 2 months ago...lol
And fixed win 7 link

 

[rockyjohn]

Nice build but:
1. the O/S link does not work and the price is not realistic
2. If jrobo moves up to the 5850 then needs 750w PSU minimum for Crossfire

Its really not that different from original build except using the bogus software price to get a faster graphics card not supported by the PSU with no budget to get the software or larger PSU.

 

[banthracis]

No need to be so mean rocky. Everything is totally legit. Don't be hating cuz ya don't know the best deals around

Correct Link
http://www.win741.com/

Yes its $30 for Pro or Premium. MS has been promoting this for months. Hell, TOM'S linked the deal a few months ago, that's how I found out.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-7-iso-download-bootable,8946.html


Also 2 5850's with an overclocked i7 used 469 watts, at load, total system power at the socket. Assuming 90% efficiency for the PSU, 422 actual watts used, total system power.

Think a 650 is enough, that's over 200W of overhead.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5850,2433-13.html

Oh and if you do Xfire in the future, you'll need some molex to 6pin converter cables. Some companies will ship them with the GPU, if not they're like $5. The 650TX can run 2 5850's, but just doesn't have enough 6 pin connectors to power both lol. Last month you could have gotten a 750tx and still saved $40 from today's build.

 

[jrobo88]

Guys thanks for all the help so far, I am learning alot.

My mobo is now deactivated on newegg, but if I remember right, it prefers memory with 1.5V. Is this really necessary? Most DDR3 memory seems to be >=1.65V. Can someone confirm/deny/explain the 1.5V requirement?

 

[glaex]

any time memory says it wants >1.5v it basically means that the manufacturer is guaranteeing it will overclock to the stated settings. you can still run it at 1.5v, it will just run at a slowing setting

 

[jrobo88]

I think I didn't ask my question in the most clear manner:

I believe my Mobo insists on memory voltage of 1.5V. Is this for real? Or can I buy any old 1.65V memory and not have to worry?

 

[glaex]

there should be an option somewhere in bios to adjust the memory voltage. if there isn't (like you bought an prebuilt computer with limited bios settings) then you can still run the memory fine but it will probably run at slower than the rated speed ie 1600 ram might run at 1333

 

[rockyjohn]

No need to be so mean rocky. Everything is totally legit. Don't be hating cuz ya don't know the best deals around

No need to make bogus personal attacks just because I simply listed some real issues with your build.

Everything is legit? That is why you suggested the OP could "Find a random college student if you aren't one. " to buy it for her illegaly? Educational software sold to students is for their personal use and giving to others is prohibited under the license. MS, for all its faults, has a luadable program of student discounts. You only shame yourself by encouraging illegal use and abuse of the program.

Further, that is an UPGRADE edition of ths software, not a new retail box edition, which you failed to mention or take into account. I would never base a build
on the necessity of using upgrade software unless the person so requested or I was otherwise aware it was all they needed since failure to qualify raises significant budget issues with the entire build. And I would clearly disclose that it was upgrade only software. It is foolish to base a build on software with not one but two issues, student eligibility and upgrade.

Finally, you then make another sarcastic attack based on my not knowing the best deals around. You only look foolish by attacking based on a very faulty assumption. I am well aware of the sale. In July, about 3 months prior to the August THG article you linked in an above post, on the Deals Forum, I posted separately deals from Microsoft on the sale of Office Ultimate Steal Deal for $60 and and Vista Ultimate Steal Deal for $65. In fact, I purchased the Office Ultimate myself - I was a student. Shown on the face of the page I linked was the deal for an upgrade only version of Vista for $30, now changed, of course, Windows 7. Further the terms and conditions on the Vista/Windows 7 upgrade stated and still states that the offer was good until December 31, 2010. I simply chose not to list the Windows upgrade deal nor those on several other MS software applications. Unfortunately, the Vista Ultimate deal was short term and is now over. Your sarcastic attack was rude and uncivil, to be factually wrong only makes you look the fool.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tomshardwareus.inc&cat=8&post=99183&page=1&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=1&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=0&numreponse=0&quote_only=0&new=0&nojs=0

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tomshardwareus.inc&cat=8&post=99180&page=1&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=1&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=0&numreponse=0&quote_only=0&new=0&nojs=0

I stand by my original criticisms of the build which you have done nothing to ameliorate while choosing instead to make bogus personal attacks on me.

 

[rockyjohn]

Also 2 5850's with an overclocked i7 used 469 watts, at load, total system power at the socket. Assuming 90% efficiency for the PSU, 422 actual watts used, total system power.

Think a 650 is enough, that's over 200W of overhead.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5850,2433-13.html

And despite having those results from over 3 months ago, when THG staff set out to build the best gaming computer possible for $1,300 using i5-750 and and twin 5850s in Crossfire, they chose the Corsair 750w PSU. Were they just not trying to get the most bang for the buck or did they just have extra cash to burn? On the front page of the article it states:

we didn't have the budget for an aftermarket CPU cooler, we've still broken through our $1,300 target limit by $54--or $24 with $30 worth of mail-in rebates. This is not something we're proud of, but something we'll have to live with

Well I for one will forgive them. But despite their sensitivity on this issue, they did not cut the size of the PSU. They show it at list for $110 with a $20 rebate - same price as today.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-own-pc,2503.html

When building a Crossfire and OC capable system, and the extra 100w only cost $11 more (thats today with rebates), it doesn't make sense not to get it. For a whole host of reasons you don't want to build a system that is operating anywhere near capacity, such as upgradability, adding components, the normal capacity reduction of PSUs over time, heat, and efficiency and noise considerations since the efficiency decreases and fan noise increases as the perentage utilization of capapacity increases. I could not find any reviews on the Corsair 650w model but I did on the 750w and linked it below. Note how the efficiency peaks at 300w and starts slowly declining while heat increases and the fan speed starts ramping up steeply at only 350w - and note the several comments about resultant noise levels. And this is on the larger 750w unit.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/atx-psu9_4.html

 

[RetiredChief]

(1) I would go for the 5770 at your current resolution, When you move up in a year, then simply get a second and Xfire them. 5770 lower in power (and extra heat) than 5850/70.

(2) On PSU, most have max eff @ 50%. A "good" 650W should be ok for a fair OC and 2 5770s. Since he already has the 650W(not the best) and it would be fine for a single 5770, He can wait to upgrade the PSU when and if he gets the 2nd 5770.

I'm currently running a 600 W igreen with similar setup (mild OC i5-750, 4 gigs ripjaws, 5770 (dual slot cooler - saphire)

For memory on your (my) setup I would prefer the Ripjaw 1600 (7-7-7 @ 1.6V). You can select the XMP profile 1 and on the UD4P, it will set your BClk to 160 and CPU multiplier to 17. This is great because all you have to do is set the multiplier to 20 for 3.2 GHz.

NOTE: using easytune 6 I set the max OC to 3.8 GHz - Ran fine w/Prime95. To hot for my poor Cooler (Zalman 9700) - Core's where up to 69/70C. But I took their setings (BClk = 200 and multiplier =19) and decreased the multiplier to 17 and decreased the vcore back to stock for 3.4 GHz.

 

[banthracis]

The student deal is perfectly legal. If you bother to read the website it tells you that you can use it on a new computer and tells you how. It's advertised for use in new systems. It works fine on clean system, I know, I used it for the new comp I built 2 months ago.

In fact, the website clearly states you can use it on a clean system.
http://windows7.digitalriver.com/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayTechnicalAssistancePage&Locale=en_US&SiteID=mswpus#q6

Also, read the terms and conditions

http://drh.img.digitalriver.com/store/mswpus/ContentTheme/pbPage.Terms

It species that ONLY a student may purchase the software, and only 1 copy of it. However, in no place does it specify that student may not sell said software. In fact, considering these are being sold at retail, it's no different than buying a copy of Win 7 at Best Buy and reselling it on Ebay.

In fact it's specified that these are Retail versions. So it's not like OEM restricted to 1 motherboard, and you can call MS for support.
https://windows7.digitalriver.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayOrderInformationPage&SiteID=mswpus&Locale=en_US#q4

It may be taking advantage of the offer, but it's by no means illegal. A student who does this is punished by not being able to get their own version of Win 7 for $30.


Also, it's kinda silly telling me deal is bogus, and THEN claiming you knew about it the whole time. Make up your mind.

Its really not that different from original build except using the bogus software price to get a faster graphics card not supported by the PSU with no budget to get the software or larger PSU.

Besides, for all you know, the OP is a student who doesn't know about the deal.



As for the PSU I posted Tom's own numbers. I see zero DATA being linked by you.

If fact I'll do better. Here's anandtech's article on 5850's, which also shows a 650 watt PSU being enough.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3650

Here's the latest $1,300 marathon system, which has same CPU, GPU and a tiny bit diff mobo to the build I'm suggesting. OC i5 and xfire 5850's and still a total system draw of 429 watts at CPU and GPU load. Assuming 90% efficiency 386 watts of actual power usage on an almost identical system.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-own-pc,2503-14.html

If you're gonna keep claiming a 650 PSU is not enough, link me some data and numbers not your opinion or random quotes taken out of context to support your claim .

2. If jrobo moves up to the 5850 then needs 750w PSU minimum for Crossfire

I've got the data from 3 articles from 2 top hardware review sites backing me. You got zip. So either link some numbers showing a 650 PSU won't run a 5850 or shut your mouth and stop giving out bad advice to people.

Also by definition, in order to have a 80 plus rating, the PSU has to be 80% efficient at full load...

If OP wants a $1,000 build, I'll make him one for $1,000 not $1,010. Why don't you help him do that instead of attacking those trying to help him? I helped him find a way to upgrade to a 5850 with the same budget while you've been busy bashing me.

BTW the HSF you recommended is the same performance as a CM Hyper 212 Plus, but cost's $20 more and needs another $14 for the bracket.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2419&page=4

Only difference btwn HDT-S1283 and HDT-S1283 Dark Knight is that one is painted black.

To the OP, sorry your thread got turned into a flame war, but seriously, this guy is too full of himself. Get the student deal before it ends. It's completely legal if a student buys it for you as long as they are the one that applies and pays for the discount price. If you must be $1000 or less go for the build I linked. If you can go another $10 more then by all means get a 750TX, but it's by no means essential.

For the future, take advice/opinion's given w/o any supporting data from a respectable source with a grain of salt.

 

[banthracis]

I could not find any reviews on the Corsair 650w model but I did on the 750w and linked it below. Note how the efficiency peaks at 300w and starts slowly declining while heat increases and the fan speed starts ramping up steeply at only 350w - and note the several comments about resultant noise levels. And this is on the larger 750w unit.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/atx-psu9_4.html

Yes the 750tx is excessively noisy, it's not like the article you linked doesn't say...

The CMPSU-750TX seems to be average in terms of noisiness. It will satisfy most users, but won’t be liked by people who prefer silent computers.

Also, same article, efficiency btwn 200 and 750w ranges btwn 82 and 85%. Ohhh wow, HUGE efficiency difference....

Assuming for some reason his computer uses 500W instead of the 426 like in the Marathon system, then at GPU + CPU load, Temps go up 2 degrees and fan goes up 500 RPM.

This tiny increase in noise and Temp is insignificant considering how much the GPU would increase in noise and temp.

38 degrees increase in temp from idle to load, and 10 decibels increased noise.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3650&p=13

Oh and since the main usage of this comp will be for Warcraft, let's see how much total system power 2 xfire'd 5850's use in that game, with an OC i7 too!

Oh damn, it's only 372 W >.<

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3650&p=13


Isn't it so nice of websites like Tom's and Anandtech to test everything, including popular games!, for us so we don't have to look like idiots and claim a 5850xfire require a minimum of a 750 watt PSU?

 

[rockyjohn]

Edit note: this was written based on the original post before poster went in and changed it 5 hours later

The student deal is perfectly legal and is not an upgrade edition..

Yes, the deal is perfectly legal – for college students. The license specifically provides that it is for the students personal use only and not to sold or transferred to another. Apparently you know this since you advised her she might “Find a random college student if you aren't one. ". I still maintain as I stated before that you only shame yourself by encouraging illegal use and abuse of the program. For you to keep maintaining that this is relevant for including in a build when you have no knowledge of whether or not the OP is eligible is just ludicrous.


You claim it is not an upgrade edition? Just go to the first page of information and look at the picture provided of the upgrade edition:

http://windows7.digitalriver.com/store/mswpus/en_US/DisplayHomePage?resid=SzWI5woBAkcAACRW0-kAAAAd&rests=1261799655629

While there, note that one of the requirements BEFORE APPLYING is running the Windows 7 UPGRADE advisor on your PC. Don’t tell me this is not an upgrade package.

If you want more information about options, a link takes you to this page to find which product is right for you:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/compare

It shows the features of Home Premium UPGRADE. Professional UPGRADE, and Ultimate UPGRADE, but no full retail systems.

All of that was readily visible viewing the website you linked and the related links. But if that is not enough, all you have to do is continue linking to the description of the offer which clearly states:

The Student ESD (Electronic Software Distribution) offer through Digital River is an upgrade software license. The upgrade license requires that you currently have on your PC a licensed version of the software that is eligible for the upgrade (i.e., previous versions of Windows XP or Windows Vista). Upon upgrade, the Windows 7 license terms will take the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from.

http://windows7.digitalriver.com/store/mswpus/ContentTheme/pbPage.Terms

Your maintaining that it is not an upgrade edition is again just ludicrous, especially after being told you are wrong,

Kinda silly getting told the the deal is bogus, and THEN you claiming you knew the whole time. Make up your mind, it's kinda hard to lie when your rebuked by your own post... ..

The only thing silly – or worse – here is you making up things I never said and attributing them to me. I NEVER said the deal is bogus, only that using the price was bogus, and it is. Please quote where I said that the deal was bogus. Originally I simply stated that the price was not “realistic” meaning in a build budget since it probably did not apply to the OP. In fact I stated later above “Educational software sold to students is for their personal use and giving to others is prohibited under the license. MS, for all its faults, has a laudable program of student discounts. You only shame yourself by encouraging illegal use and abuse of the program.” So I never attacked the program, only your encouraging the abuse of it. And the only thing bogus here is your stating I said something I did not then attacking me for it.

As for the PSU I posted Tom's own numbers. I see zero DATA being linked by you. ..

I challenge you to show me one place in that article where it states that a 650w PSU is ample for a system like the one you proposed with two 5850’s in Crossfire. I could not find it. Please provide page number and a quote.

No instead I linked the THG build for the same CPU and graphics card where they chose to use the Corsair 750TX PSU even though it put them over budget, about which they were very chagrined. Apparently they agree with me that a smaller CPU is not appropriate for that system. I feel that is a lot more meaningful then merely throwing out numbers and a more than reasonable response to your citing THG numbers that never address the specific issue at hand.

If fact I'll do better. Here's anadftechs article on 5850's.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3650..

I read the article but could not find a the place where it says a 650w PSU is ample for a system like the one you proposed. If it really is in there, please provide the page number and a quote of what it says.

If you're gonna keep claiming a 650 PSU is not enough, link me some data and numbers not your opinion or random quotes taken out of context to support your claim .

I've got the data from the 2 top hardware review sites backing me. You got zip. So either link some numbers showing a 650 PSU won't run it or shut your mouth and stop giving out bad advice to people..

And more uncivil attacks. I addressed your two hardware reviews above. Part of the problem is that you jump from the articles specific data about power card usage to requirements for the total system. That jump is only your own unsupported opinion.

Now I provided an opinion, too, stating I think 750w is needed to build it right. That was made with full cognizance of the data you provided. Since we started with the same data but arrive at a different conclusion, I thought it appropriate to provide an explanation of all the factors that go into making that evaluation of a system – going beyond just the specific usage of the cards - as seems appropriate for the benefit of the OP, you attack me for making explaining the rationale. That seems totally wrong to me.

Further, you also are now attacking me for taking quotes out of context. Please kindly at least identify the quotes and show how they are out of context instead of making more vague, unsupported attacks.

Why don't you help him do that instead of attacking those trying to help him?

I have been helping by providing good information and recommendations to jrobo in several posts above. For you to characterize my participation the way do above shows either a tremendous lack of judgment or you are for some reason very upset with me because I pointed out certain errors in your recommendation. But it is you doing the attacking not me.

If you go back to my first post about your errors, you will see simple, to the point objective statements about the issues, which you responded with sarcastic personal attacks such as “no need to be mean” (I was not ), “don’t be hating cuz ya don’t know the best deals around” (also totally inaccurate as I have shown), and now, as shown above in this post, putting words in my mouth and attacking me as if I said them and, in the above quote attacking me for attacking which I never did. The only one doing the attacking here is you. I just provided jrobo with some information about the errors in your suggestions and have been defending myself from your personal attacks ever since, as I am doing here. And trying to remain objective an not engage in your style of invective and personal attack or telling you to “shut your mouth” as you did me.

To the OP, sorry your thread got turned into a flame war, but seriously, this guy is too full of himself.

Yes, it is easy to see who is making the personal attacks.

Get the student deal before it ends. It's completely legal if a student buys it for you as long as they are the one that applies and pays for the discount price.

I can’t believe you are still trying to encourage illegal use and abuse of the laudable student discount program. The program, as I have shown above, says the offer is for the student only and not transferable. In the process, he must run a program on his computer to verify upgrade eligibility – also a convenient way for MS to check for unauthorized software – which will give MS data on the computer. The software may then only be loaded on that computer, which of course MS can check when it has to be authorized, and the buyer loses his license to the MS O/S previously on his computer. How can you in good faith tell jrobo to violate the license? Are you asking him to find a student willing to engage in the subterfuge of running the test on jrobo’s computer while telling MS it belongs to the studend? Oh what tangled web we weave……

Banthracis, I hope you choose to respond to the questions I asked above. But when you do, would you please stick to the issue and stop making sarcastic and other personal attacks. You already owe me several apologies that I doubt I will ever get.

 

[rockyjohn]

The student deal is perfectly legal. If you bother to read the website it tells you that you can use it on a new computer and tells you how. It's advertised for use in new systems. It works fine on clean system, I know, I used it for the new comp I built 2 months ago.

In fact, the website clearly states you can use it on a clean system.
http://windows7.digitalriver.com/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayTechnicalAssistancePage&Locale=en_US&SiteID=mswpus#q6

Also, read the terms and conditions

http://drh.img.digitalriver.com/store/mswpus/ContentTheme/pbPage.Terms

It species that ONLY a student may purchase the software, and only 1 copy of it. However, in no place does it specify that student may not sell said software. In fact, considering these are being sold at retail, it's no different than buying a copy of Win 7 at Best Buy and reselling it on Ebay.

In fact it's specified that these are Retail versions. So it's not like OEM restricted to 1 motherboard, and you can call MS for support.
https://windows7.digitalriver.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayOrderInformationPage&SiteID=mswpus&Locale=en_US#q4

Lets see. A person must be a college student to be eligible. The student can purchase only one copy. To be eligible he must also first run the UPDATE advisor on HIS computer to see if his computer is upgradeable. This requires that software be installed - it cannot be done on a new system with no software ("clean install" simply means that the old version is removed first and the drive reformated before the "clean" install). Then when the new software is installed, his old license becomes invalid. This is all contained in the pages linked by Ban. He is totally distorting the program and continues to encourage abuse of it. I think Microsoft has just come up with a little better process (from their standpoint) of policing the studend discount program, probably because of prior abuses from people like Ban.

The web pages don't describe what data MS keeps on the machine inspected by their Advisor, how they do or do not link it to the software license when you go to activate , what happens if you try to load it on a machine other than the one checked out online, or (assuming that is possible) what happens if the new software is activated on a different machine and the old software tries to get updates. But I don't want to test it to find out . What Ban suggests clearly violate the terms of the deal. Futhermore it is unethical, which apparentlu is of no concern to him. And yes, given the terms of the discount program and how it is set up, even if it is possible to sell it on eBay, it is clearly different than buying at Best Buy and reselling on eBay. That the difference escapes Ban is to his detriment.

 

[Truhls]

Btw, for a measly 6 dollar increase in price, i would suggest this RAM, far better timing.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231276

 

[jrobo88]

For what it's worth, I've been out of college for over 10 years. My brother is a student now... he would be eligible for the $30 Win7. Might have to compensate him appropriately if he's able to help me out.

In any event, I decided to buy memory specifically from the gigabyte-approved list so I wouldn't have to wonder if it was compatible. I know it's not the fastest available, but I ordered this:

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193

 

[jrobo88]

Question:

I don't anticipate upgrading my monitor for at least a year - I'm comfortable with my 19" 1440x900. Do I really need a 5770 right now? Should I even consider a 4850/4870/4890 and then worry about a DX11 card when I do decide to get a new monitor? Many have indicated that although DX11 support is nice, there are very few games in the near future that will take advantage of it. Maybe it's best to save a few $$$ and get a 48xx card. Any thoughts?

 

[rockyjohn]

For what it's worth, I've been out of college for over 10 years. My brother is a student now... he would be eligible for the $30 Win7. Might have to compensate him appropriately if he's able to help me out.

I am disappointed that your ethics are no better than Ban's, and that you would consider enticing your brother to conspire in unethical activity.

 

[Truhls]

I am disappointed that your ethics are no better than Ban's, and that you would consider enticing your brother to conspire in unethical activity.

Have you looked at the world lately? Things like Ethics, Honor, Dignity; they mean nothing anymore.

 

[jrobo88]

Nah... my comment was purely facetious. I'm gainfully employed and it's not worth the trouble to save $75. I would, however, solicit his assistance when it comes time to assemble everything, as he knows more than I do about home built machines.

Can anyone offer some constructive advice regarding my proposed selection of a gfx card?