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Hmmm didn't I predict this over a year ago

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September 11, 2004 9:07:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

And RTV missed the boat ... again

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5915470/site/newsweek/

More about : hmmm predict year ago

Anonymous
September 11, 2004 9:07:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Greg wrote:
> And RTV missed the boat ... again
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5915470/site/newsweek/

As usual, you know very little about Replays. This is a copy of Replay
ichannels. Keep checking on this and let us know how they make out. LOL.
September 12, 2004 7:28:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>As usual, you know very little about Replays. This is a copy of Replay
>ichannels. Keep checking on this and let us know how they make out. LOL.

I channels? What is that and when will I see it?
Until RTV gets connected to a content provider you won't ever see anything that
isn't coming down your regular TV cable.
The Netflix deal will allow TiVo folks to stream anything that is in the DVD
market.
That is typically 4 weeks before the PPV folks get things and that is the
current hangup with the deal.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 7:28:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

In article <20040912112802.10671.00000737@mb-m04.aol.com>,
gfretwell@aol.com (Greg) wrote:

> The Netflix deal will allow TiVo folks to stream anything that is in the DVD
> market.

The point was, Replay already started into and abandoned that market.
Now comes Tivo, like they're doing something original.

Those who would ignore the past, are condemned to repeat it. And so
goes Tivo.
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 7:28:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <20040912112802.10671.00000737@mb-m04.aol.com>,
> gfretwell@aol.com (Greg) wrote:
>
>
>>The Netflix deal will allow TiVo folks to stream anything that is in the DVD
>>market.
>
>
> The point was, Replay already started into and abandoned that market.
> Now comes Tivo, like they're doing something original.
>
> Those who would ignore the past, are condemned to repeat it. And so
> goes Tivo.
>

Let's see:

Let me order some movie for some exhorbitant price
I'll wait 5 days or so for it to download. (Gee, Netflix is a 2 day turn
via mail)

The media people want you to not be able to send it to anyone and to
delete automatically after X views or x number of days.

Seems very few studios will allow this at all.

I believe it's a publiicity stunt to raise cash.
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 7:28:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:16:03 -0400, Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article <20040912112802.10671.00000737@mb-m04.aol.com>,
>> gfretwell@aol.com (Greg) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The Netflix deal will allow TiVo folks to stream anything that is in the DVD
>>>market.
>>
>>
>> The point was, Replay already started into and abandoned that market.
>> Now comes Tivo, like they're doing something original.
>>
>> Those who would ignore the past, are condemned to repeat it. And so
>> goes Tivo.
>>
>
>Let's see:
>
>Let me order some movie for some exhorbitant price
>I'll wait 5 days or so for it to download.

Would it really take that long? It's likely thier server would have a
higher upload speed, so it would just be limited to your download
speed. My download speed is 8 times my upload speed, and it'll be
similar for most people. Get that download in 15 hours (1/8 of 5
days)?

> (Gee, Netflix is a 2 day turn
>via mail)
>
>The media people want you to not be able to send it to anyone and to
>delete automatically after X views or x number of days.
>
>Seems very few studios will allow this at all.
>
>I believe it's a publiicity stunt to raise cash.

--
104 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 9:17:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Greg wrote:

>>As usual, you know very little about Replays. This is a copy of Replay
>>ichannels. Keep checking on this and let us know how they make out. LOL.
>
>
> I channels? What is that and when will I see it?
> Until RTV gets connected to a content provider you won't ever see anything that
> isn't coming down your regular TV cable.
> The Netflix deal will allow TiVo folks to stream anything that is in the DVD
> market.
> That is typically 4 weeks before the PPV folks get things and that is the
> current hangup with the deal.

Tell me more about the NEtflix deal

I currently get my NETFLIX, Play them into the RePlay, send them back
and then make a decision on what to do with the MPEG (Burn to DVD, burn
to Transfer DVD (first is burn as dvd, the second is burn as mpeg for
viewing on computers only) or save to HD for viewing and discard
(Default action)

But if there is a better deal..... I'm interested
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 9:17:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>
> Tell me more about the NEtflix deal
>
> I currently get my NETFLIX, Play them into the RePlay, send them back
> and then make a decision on what to do with the MPEG (Burn to DVD, burn
> to Transfer DVD (first is burn as dvd, the second is burn as mpeg for
> viewing on computers only) or save to HD for viewing and discard
> (Default action)
>
> But if there is a better deal..... I'm interested

Seems like a tedious process. My friend simply copies every dvd he gets
and puts the original back in the mail the same day. They are very fast
so it costs like a $1 each.

Under the Tivo deal, you won't be able to make a copy and the unit will
automatically delete it after 1 or 2 showings or after X days even
unwatched. Because of the file sizes involved, it will either take
forever to d/l or they will send a bastardized version (ie: vcd
quality). Ready to sign up? Like I said, a publicity stunt.
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 9:17:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

In article <sw%0d.1131$Qv5.458@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>,
John in Detroit <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I currently get my NETFLIX, Play them into the RePlay, send them back
> and then make a decision on what to do with the MPEG

Why not just dupe it to a read/write DVD of some flavor, then decide
what to do with it? If you don't like it, just rewrite the DVD.

It's faster than playing it real-time into the RTV, and much more
accurate to boot.

And, best of all, it's free to do once you have a Wintel box with a DVD
writer.
September 12, 2004 11:04:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

As has been proven by everyone from Sam Colt to Bill Gates, it is not who had
the idea first, but who got it to market. TiVo already has a history of
partnering with a content provider and now they are taking it to another level.
RTV appears to being canibalized for it's patents and thrown to the dogs by
D&M. There is certainly no indication that they have interest in the future
standalone DVRs.
September 12, 2004 11:35:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

I bet Hollywood will make them send in "standard" resolution so the movie will
be about a gig an hour. There is no reason you can't stream that down a decent
broadband connection in real time.
The only contention right now is copyright flags and release schedules. These
may end up on the PPV release dates (rental/sales are about a month earlier).
The fact that the principles are already identified and one (NetFlix) already
has a deal with Hollywood, makes this a lot more likely to happen that the
vaporware Tony D was talking about.
We were getting MP3 support too ... a year ago ... yeah right!
If RTV doesn't get it's "strategic partner" soon it will be a BetaMax.
Sony is a big company too but that didn't save Beta.
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 11:35:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Greg wrote:

> I bet Hollywood will make them send in "standard" resolution so the movie will
> be about a gig an hour. There is no reason you can't stream that down a decent
> broadband connection in real time.

BS. Streaming of this sort is impossible. I can get 600k downloads via
cable, but have yet to find a site that streams crummy 3" media player
screens reliably. And most people don't have my d/l speed.

> The only contention right now is copyright flags and release schedules. These
> may end up on the PPV release dates (rental/sales are about a month earlier).
> The fact that the principles are already identified and one (NetFlix) already
> has a deal with Hollywood, makes this a lot more likely to happen that the
> vaporware Tony D was talking about.

Like I said, keep an eye on this and let us know when to get excited.
September 13, 2004 12:30:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>Under the Tivo deal, you won't be able to make a copy and the unit will
>automatically delete it after 1 or 2 showings or after X days even
>unwatched.

What keeps you from RTVing it via the A/V or RF jacks?


> they will send a bastardized version
You mean like "standard quality"?
That is about all a NTSC TV can "see" anyway.
From my RTV experience the better qualities are just wasted disk space.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 4:19:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>BS. Streaming of this sort is impossible. I can get 600k downloads via
>cable, but have yet to find a site that streams crummy 3" media player

If you only get 600Kbps download speeds from cable - you have a weak
cable broadband provider.

Most cable modem connections are at least 1.5Mbps, and around here
they're bumping to 3Mbps, and in some areas 6Mpbs and 10Mbps are
available for a higher fee.

I get 1.5Mbps/768Kbps DSL - and reliably 1.1Mbps download speeds.

The average broadband speeds are increasing, and most cable modem
services start at 1.5Mbps and go up from there. DSL is also getting
faster, Verizon is rolling out 3.0Mbps DSL widely.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 4:28:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>The point was, Replay already started into and abandoned that market.
>Now comes Tivo, like they're doing something original.

This isn't new for TiVo either - they talked about this at least as
far back as 2001, before the Series2 even shipped. One of the
features they talked about for the networking features was downloading
video. When the S2s were first released TiVo also announced deals
with JellyVision, RealNetworks, and Radiance for content - with Real
and Radiance to provide video content via broadband.

But the bubble bursting change a lot of plans, including TiVo's, and
the network content concept was shelved for a while. It is just
coming back now, with a new content partner - and it isn't surprising
since Netflix has been talking about providing digital rentals, and
Mike Ramsay, TiVo's CEO, is also on the board of Netflix.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 4:45:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>Let's see:

Yeah, a post full of FUD. No better than the 'RTV is going out of
business' posts you hate.

>Let me order some movie for some exhorbitant price

Have you seen any pricing? I haven't.

>I'll wait 5 days or so for it to download. (Gee, Netflix is a 2 day turn
>via mail)

Even if they downloaded 8.5GB, the max a dual layer DVD can hold, I
could download that in about 19hours at 1Mbps, and I actually average
about 1.1Mbps reliably, with 1.5Mbps max on my DSL. Around here cable
modems start at 3Mbps. Verizon is kicking DSL up to 3Mbps to
compete. One GB takes about 2 hours, 16 minutes to download for each
1Mbps download speed, so about 45 minutes at 3Mbps.

And the actual video content of a DVD, at full DVD quality, is much
less than 8.5GB

>The media people want you to not be able to send it to anyone and to
>delete automatically after X views or x number of days.

Both TiVo and RTV are adding these controls, and there is no concrete
connection between the two announcements. ReplayTV already has more
controls in their software against sharing and copying, they're just
never used - it requires the broadcaster to sent the flag to activate
it.

>Seems very few studios will allow this at all.

Pure FUD. It is all business, if the money is there and DRM can be
shown (and, unlike RTV, TiVo has FCC approval for their DRM system),
there is no reason for them NOT to do it. Revenue is revenue. People
also said online music stores would never be able to make deals with
record labels to download music - that was before Apple, Napster 2.0,
Sony, etc, all did it.

>I believe it's a publiicity stunt to raise cash.

I believe you'd spout anything to spread FUD.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
September 13, 2004 4:55:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>BS. Streaming of this sort is impossible.

Not impossible, just not what we get from "3 meg" cable connections (you are
saying 600k).
The whole point of a DVR is that it doesn't have to be in real time. If you can
wait a day you can get it into your machine at "off peak" rates and it should
be cheap.

The other concern was preexisting contracts with people like HBO. That is only
money for NetFlix. If the RTV "strategic partner" was AOL/Time Warner/HBO a lot
of these concerns go away.
The point is, without a content provider, the DVR business is a buggy whip
company.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 4:59:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>Under the Tivo deal, you won't be able to make a copy and the unit will
>automatically delete it after 1 or 2 showings or after X days even

Funny that you have information that no one else has, since *NO*
details of the deal have been made public. You're talking out of your
ass again.

>unwatched. Because of the file sizes involved, it will either take
>forever to d/l or they will send a bastardized version (ie: vcd

Simply math shows that most broadband users could download even the
largest movie releases in less time than the post normally takes.
Even with your low-end 600Kbps download speed it is 33 hours for
8.5GB, and the video from a DVD is never even clost to that. Even you
should be able to download the average movie in under a day. People
with respectable broadband services could get them much faster.

You aren't going to stream DVD content today, maybe in a few
years. DVD has a maximum bitrate of 10Mbps, and most releases hover
in the 5-6Mbps area, so you'd need download speeds higher than that to
get ahead and buffer for bitrate spikes.

This is all presuming they just send the MPEG2 file from the DVD.
There are other solutions too - re-encoding into MPEG4 or VC9 would
preserve quality and greatly reduce the file size to transfer.

RTV could do the same thing, but first they'd need DRM before a studio
would agree to a deal.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 4:59:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

In article <megazone.1095037170@sidehack.sat.gweep.net>,
newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org (MegaZone) wrote:

> Even with your low-end 600Kbps download speed it is 33 hours for
> 8.5GB, and the video from a DVD is never even clost to that.

A friend of mine gets his stuff the next day from Netflix. He's near a
distribution center or something.

My guess is that if you're out in the boonies, where broadband doesn't
exist or is iffy, the postal service is your best bet.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 5:11:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

General Kireiko <douglas@panix.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>And they won't have anything you'll want to watch. Probelm is, most
>studios already sold Internet Rights to their films to Premium Cable
>Channels like StarzEncore and HBO. Those deals are in place for another
>four years. It's called ON-DEMAND.
>
>I didn't make this up - read it in an article somewhere.

I read the same, or a similar, article - and you left out the part
where TiVo/Netflix could still do this because there are multiple
licensing time windows and the existing licenses are for specific time
windows. The details of the licensing is also important. Some of the
licenses treat 'Internet' as downloads to a PC or other similar
device, not an appliance that feeds a TV. It is thought that it might
qualify as a PPV or VoD license.

It is up the the lawyers and business folks to work it out. And the
licenses are with each studio, so there would probably be different
restrictions - new releases from some, only PPV window for others,
etc.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 7:10:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

MegaZone wrote:
> Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>
>>Let's see:
>
>
> Yeah, a post full of FUD. No better than the 'RTV is going out of
> business' posts you hate.
>

Why a Tivo cheerleader would post to a Replay forum is beyond me. But be
that as it may, I'll ask you to also keep an eye on this and let us know
when it happens.

And your assessment of Tivo's finances vs DNNA is hilarious. Like I also
said, don't list your theories, call a broker.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 8:00:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>> Even with your low-end 600Kbps download speed it is 33 hours for
>> 8.5GB, and the video from a DVD is never even clost to that.
>A friend of mine gets his stuff the next day from Netflix. He's near a
>distribution center or something.

And he has to return the DVDs too. Sure, it won't be for everyone,
but that's 33 hours for 8.5GB over a link that, by today's standards,
is slow. I could get 6Mbps DSL or 3Mbps cable modem service here,
most broadband users have services of at least 1.5Mbps available.

Even TiVo and Netflix have said they don't expect any significant
revenue for broadband rentals for several years. Netflix said
something like 1 in 1000 customers may use it in the early days. This
isn't going to pump up their bottom lines any time soon, so it isn't
about making money in the short term - it is a long term investment.

>My guess is that if you're out in the boonies, where broadband doesn't
>exist or is iffy, the postal service is your best bet.

I live in a major city (Worcester used to be second only to Boston in
New England, but I think it dropped a couple of places) and I could
probably download a full DVD over my DSL faster than the post would
get it to me. And I don't have to bother returning anything.

Both ReplayTV and TiVo thought this was a good idea a few years ago,
but investments dried up. And they were probably both too early since
broadband was just spreading. But today there are many more people
with broadband, and the average connection speed is higher - and
steadily increasing.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:17:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D wrote:


> BS. Streaming of this sort is impossible. I can get 600k downloads via
> cable, but have yet to find a site that streams crummy 3" media player
> screens reliably. And most people don't have my d/l speed.

I'll second what someone said about 600K Download speeds via cable, I
get 970 to 1,000K on DSL (1meg or 1,000K is T-1 speed)

Cable (at my daughters) 2-3 times that.

I find that ABC-News (Note, I get it free, you don't) 300K streams are
very high quality... Often better than Replay STANDARD (at least on this
monitor) I've viewed both in full screen mode and liked it.

Of course.... What you have "Under the hood" makes a difference too

IE: this laptop is a 333 MHz I'd not wish to use anything much slower
to watch video... Main is 1.8 GHz and the "new" computer I just picked
up at the bargain auction ($3.00, yes $3.00) is a 1GHz AMD with a
kick-screen video card and what looks like a top end Sound blaster

What it does not have is an OS

But I was able to get in and poke around a bit with tools I have on my
laptop
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:17:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>
> I'll second what someone said about 600K Download speeds via cable, I
> get 970 to 1,000K on DSL (1meg or 1,000K is T-1 speed)
>
> Cable (at my daughters) 2-3 times that.
>
> I find that ABC-News (Note, I get it free, you don't) 300K streams are
> very high quality... Often better than Replay STANDARD (at least on this
> monitor) I've viewed both in full screen mode and liked it.
>
> Of course.... What you have "Under the hood" makes a difference too

I was not referring to "rated speed". Comcast recently doubled our speed
(yeah, right). What that basicaly means is if you d/l from the next
guy on the leg you get great speed. Across the internet, with huge files
and half the stops along the way throttling your connection 600k is
pretty good. Megazone refers to 3m dsl, which is laughable also because
Ma & Pa Kettle who own most Tivos aren't going for it, even if it was
available.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:36:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D wrote:

>
>>
>> Tell me more about the NEtflix deal
>>
>> I currently get my NETFLIX, Play them into the RePlay, send them back
>> and then make a decision on what to do with the MPEG (Burn to DVD,
>> burn to Transfer DVD (first is burn as dvd, the second is burn as mpeg
>> for viewing on computers only) or save to HD for viewing and discard
>> (Default action)
>>
>> But if there is a better deal..... I'm interested
>
>
> Seems like a tedious process. My friend simply copies every dvd he gets
> and puts the original back in the mail the same day. They are very fast
> so it costs like a $1 each.
>
> Under the Tivo deal, you won't be able to make a copy and the unit will
> automatically delete it after 1 or 2 showings or after X days even
> unwatched. Because of the file sizes involved, it will either take
> forever to d/l or they will send a bastardized version (ie: vcd
> quality). Ready to sign up? Like I said, a publicity stunt.

Oh, it's a TIVO deal... I already kind of posted my feelings on TIVO
(I looked at them only long enough to hear about the RePlay and then any
thought of buying a TIVO died a quick death)

As for the tedious process.... I keep telling people that there is a way
to do "Real Time Recording" without having to sit there for an hour or
two while a movie copies to the Replay

1: Set up DVD to play but do not push the play button just yet

2: Set up replay to do a timed manual record starting in say, 2 minutes

3: Sit there for two minutes... The replay will do the
10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-RECORDING (now you press play on the DVD player)

Go to __________________ (lunch, dinner, breakfast, church, shopping,
bed, date with your dateable person, whatever) come back in 1,2,3,6,8,
10 (more) hours (whenever you get back to it)

Re-name the show on the recorder, remove DVD from player and ship back
to NETFLIX

Your total time, under five minutes

Of course some DVDs (Mostly TV shows) you have to record Each episode
(chapter analog) but most movies play straight through.

Three examples of TV show DVDs

RED DWARF (British Science Fiction Comedy) One push, chop later if you
like or run as one

X-Files Each episode

Avengers (British "Spy" type show) Each Episode

There was one other TV show... I can't remember it's name but it played
through (Plot is a bunch of renegade spacers, I'm a science fiction fan)

(Watched it b-4 I got the replay, show not that good)

So no matter how much work it is... It's only a few minutes for me, and
then it's lights out or go out and let the box do it's thing in peace.

Oh yes.... Works the other way too... Wife could not understand the
replay to save her self... But she does VHS just fine

So... Today, while doing other things... I taped a show we both watch
off the replay.. Replay, of course, done the capture
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:41:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <sw%0d.1131$Qv5.458@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>,
> John in Detroit <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I currently get my NETFLIX, Play them into the RePlay, send them back
>>and then make a decision on what to do with the MPEG
>
>
> Why not just dupe it to a read/write DVD of some flavor, then decide
> what to do with it? If you don't like it, just rewrite the DVD.
>
> It's faster than playing it real-time into the RTV, and much more
> accurate to boot.
>
> And, best of all, it's free to do once you have a Wintel box with a DVD
> writer.
>

Though I do indeed have a WIN box with a DVD burner (External Backpack
drive) the problem is the laptop I normally watch on is not quite up to
DVD, at least not DVD via USB (it is supposed to be able to play DVD
direct if I get a drive for it)

Replay plays fine.. Same program in fact (Power DVD) to play it

I only have occassional issues doing a Replay file.. .Usually those are
when I try to multitask the computer.

So... It's easier this way

Also... I'm not yet up to the rip&burn stage with DVD's. And so far all
I've seen is "Can Not Copy" Since RePlay and the computer do most of
the work automatically, w/o any help from me beyond the setup, which I'
d have to do if I did a stragit disk copy Not much point in burning
media when I can burn hard drive
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 3:41:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

> Though I do indeed have a WIN box with a DVD burner (External Backpack
> drive) the problem is the laptop I normally watch on is not quite up to
> DVD, at least not DVD via USB (it is supposed to be able to play DVD
> direct if I get a drive for it)
>
> Replay plays fine.. Same program in fact (Power DVD) to play it
>
> I only have occassional issues doing a Replay file.. .Usually those are
> when I try to multitask the computer.
>
> So... It's easier this way
>
> Also... I'm not yet up to the rip&burn stage with DVD's. And so far all
> I've seen is "Can Not Copy"

Get DVDShrink (free), it will remove encryption, reencode to fit a DVD-9
to DVD-5 and even burn the result if you have 2 drives. Auto mode is a
simple click and do it all.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 4:26:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:22:10 -0400, Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>> Though I do indeed have a WIN box with a DVD burner (External Backpack
>> drive) the problem is the laptop I normally watch on is not quite up to
>> DVD, at least not DVD via USB (it is supposed to be able to play DVD
>> direct if I get a drive for it)
>>
>> Replay plays fine.. Same program in fact (Power DVD) to play it
>>
>> I only have occassional issues doing a Replay file.. .Usually those are
>> when I try to multitask the computer.
>>
>> So... It's easier this way
>>
>> Also... I'm not yet up to the rip&burn stage with DVD's. And so far all
>> I've seen is "Can Not Copy"
>
>Get DVDShrink (free), it will remove encryption, reencode to fit a DVD-9
>to DVD-5 and even burn the result if you have 2 drives. Auto mode is a
>simple click and do it all.

I've used that and it works. I wonder it it's compatibe with the new
DVD+R DL drives (the media won't always be so expensive).
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 5:54:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

I think the biggest problem with the overall Replay situation is they seem
to be doing nothing but selling off old units, nothing more. What else have
they done??
No update to web programming? No media push...nothing!

I was thinking of buying a third unit, but I'm honestly wondering if I
should.
I don't even see the units in Best Buy or Circuit City anymore.

"Greg" <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040911130700.01302.00000469@mb-m04.aol.com...
> And RTV missed the boat ... again
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5915470/site/newsweek/
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 6:32:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>
>>Get DVDShrink (free), it will remove encryption, reencode to fit a DVD-9
>>to DVD-5 and even burn the result if you have 2 drives. Auto mode is a
>>simple click and do it all.
>
>
> I've used that and it works. I wonder it it's compatibe with the new
> DVD+R DL drives (the media won't always be so expensive).
>

I'm sure the author will update it. He supplies the "guts" to the same
program within Nero (without decryption though!). The media is hideously
expensive. It will be some time before it is cheap. It will be rare to
find a movie that needs it. After removing various languages, etc, you
can't even see artifacts on the finished project. The new version has an
even more extensive system for adaptive compression and a sharpening
filter that may take a lot longer but provides fabulous results.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 6:32:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <Tony_D@nospam.com> wrote:
>The media is hideously expensive.

50 cents (17 cents for generic) a disc isn't CD-R cheap, but it's not really
all that expensive anymore.

--
<script language="JavaScript">// Scott Seligman
for(var i=0;i<73;i++)document.write(String.fromCharCode(("lsYrsiwb7pir~~|=~fr"+
"~}Rvvrxv~Q}gx~}lz~wmwiqz|sq~tuBpNpzyvp@Lu[").charCodeAt(i)-("P2Y*!$1E5#()2*-"+
"#+##*)E!#-*1*1*$)*)+,:*$4!,.0.c0/!@R)cM8-$$=4=").charCodeAt(i)+32));</script>
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 7:06:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Scott Seligman wrote:

> Tony D <Tony_D@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>The media is hideously expensive.
>
>
> 50 cents (17 cents for generic) a disc isn't CD-R cheap, but it's not really
> all that expensive anymore.
>
What are you talking about. Dual Layer disks are $12.50 each.
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 7:06:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <Tony_D@nospam.com> wrote:
>Scott Seligman wrote:
>
>> Tony D <Tony_D@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>The media is hideously expensive.
>>
>>
>> 50 cents (17 cents for generic) a disc isn't CD-R cheap, but it's not really
>> all that expensive anymore.
>>
>What are you talking about. Dual Layer disks are $12.50 each.

Sorry, got my formats confused.

--
<script language="JavaScript">// Scott Seligman
for(var i=0;i<73;i++)document.write(String.fromCharCode(("lsYrsiwb7pir~~|=~fr"+
"~}Rvvrxv~Q}gx~}lz~wmwiqz|sq~tuBpNpzyvp@Lu[").charCodeAt(i)-("P2Y*!$1E5#()2*-"+
"#+##*)E!#-*1*1*$)*)+,:*$4!,.0.c0/!@R)cM8-$$=4=").charCodeAt(i)+32));</script>
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 7:23:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>Why a Tivo cheerleader would post to a Replay forum is beyond me. But be

Anyone who doesn't spout the party line is a TiVo cheerleader to you,
I've been watching you for a while. So easy to dismiss any arguments
you don't like that way, isn't it?

I read a LOT of DVR related groups, mailing lists, etc. I'm
interested in the market overall. And I even answer questions for
users since I know a fair bit about a number of different products,
TiVo or not. I'm not so small minded that I only want to read about
products I use.

>And your assessment of Tivo's finances vs DNNA is hilarious. Like I also
>said, don't list your theories, call a broker.

My assessment? I see you also lack any reading comprehension. Did
you notice how I said your post was full of FUD (you know what that
is, right? Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt - a common scare tactic used
by those with no real arguments) and 'no better than' the posts about
RTV going out of business?

Anyone would reading comprehension would understand that I think
*both* posts are FUD.

Let me spell it out to you so you understand.

I think your posts about the potential Tivo/Netflex deal (which is
just an industry rumor, I'd note) are pure FUD. Complete bullshit
without any supporting facts. How can there be supporting facts when
*neither* Netflix nor TiVo have made any announcements and the
comments amount to 'no comment'. Everything at this point is
spectulation by industry reporters with 'inside sources'. So when you
post about exhorbinant prices, etc, you're pulling it out of your ass.

In the same vein posts about how RTV is going to go out of business
are silly too. I do believe that DNNA is pulling out of the
standalone DVR business. That market is getting crowded and, frankly,
RTV lost the war for that market years ago. The margins are being
squeezed hard and even TiVo is moving to branch out of the pure DVR
market with integrated devices like DVD recorders, which analysts
agree are the next big growth market. Many years ago SonicBlue
announced their intention to product an RTV/DVD-RW box - but that
never came to be.

DNNA appears to have decided to abandon the standalone market to
pursue integrated media servers with DVR features. Not an
unreasonable move, the margins in that market are MUCH higher and it
is a new area without a lot of competition. I was at CES2004 and I
saw their product, it looked interesting - if a bit pricey. It hasn't
shipped yet, but I'm sure it will.

I doubt DNNA is going to fold up, as some have tried to indicate. I
do think that 'ReplayTV' as a standalong DVR is probably on its last
legs. After the buyout DNNA dropped features then in development,
like MP3 support and USB WiFi support, and they haven't updated the HW
at all. Apparently not even a manufacturing respin to use newer
components and reduce costs. There was one major SW bump for the 5500
release which dropped Send Show and Commercial Advance and added
Show|Nav.

You like to spread FUD about TiVo and call people 'TiVo cheerleaders',
I like to actually intelligently discuss facts.

What you're doing is the same thing as the people who FUD about RTV
that you like to slam. Maybe you should look in the mirror.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 11:42:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D wrote:

>
>>
>> I'll second what someone said about 600K Download speeds via cable, I
>> get 970 to 1,000K on DSL (1meg or 1,000K is T-1 speed)
>>
>> Cable (at my daughters) 2-3 times that.
>>
>> I find that ABC-News (Note, I get it free, you don't) 300K streams are
>> very high quality... Often better than Replay STANDARD (at least on
>> this monitor) I've viewed both in full screen mode and liked it.
>>
>> Of course.... What you have "Under the hood" makes a difference too
>
>
> I was not referring to "rated speed". Comcast recently doubled our speed
> (yeah, right). What that basicaly means is if you d/l from the next guy
> on the leg you get great speed. Across the internet, with huge files and
> half the stops along the way throttling your connection 600k is pretty
> good. Megazone refers to 3m dsl, which is laughable also because Ma & Pa
> Kettle who own most Tivos aren't going for it, even if it was available.

When I say I geet 1 Meg per second... I'm talking about visiting
www.wugnet.com and using their speed tester. Or Mcaffee's so it's
actuall, Internet, download speed.
'
When I speak of 300K. That is the reported speed of a very high quality
video streem I often watch. These are actuall tested and/or reported
speeds provided by my computer. Not advertisments but test results

www.broadband.com has a speed tester or three and collects speed reportsb
September 13, 2004 11:42:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:42:07 GMT, John in Detroit
<Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Tony D wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> I'll second what someone said about 600K Download speeds via cable, I
>>> get 970 to 1,000K on DSL (1meg or 1,000K is T-1 speed)
>>>
>>> Cable (at my daughters) 2-3 times that.
>>>
>>> I find that ABC-News (Note, I get it free, you don't) 300K streams are
>>> very high quality... Often better than Replay STANDARD (at least on
>>> this monitor) I've viewed both in full screen mode and liked it.
>>>
>>> Of course.... What you have "Under the hood" makes a difference too
>>
>>
>> I was not referring to "rated speed". Comcast recently doubled our speed
>> (yeah, right). What that basicaly means is if you d/l from the next guy
>> on the leg you get great speed. Across the internet, with huge files and
>> half the stops along the way throttling your connection 600k is pretty
>> good. Megazone refers to 3m dsl, which is laughable also because Ma & Pa
>> Kettle who own most Tivos aren't going for it, even if it was available.
>
>When I say I geet 1 Meg per second... I'm talking about visiting
>www.wugnet.com and using their speed tester. Or Mcaffee's so it's
>actuall, Internet, download speed.
>'
>When I speak of 300K. That is the reported speed of a very high quality
>video streem I often watch. These are actuall tested and/or reported
>speeds provided by my computer. Not advertisments but test results
>
>www.broadband.com has a speed tester or three and collects speed reportsb

Have you considered providing actual links for these things? Both
refer to pages with no indication of speed tests.

Here's one that actually works: http://www.dslreports.com/stest
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 11:45:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D wrote:

>
>> Though I do indeed have a WIN box with a DVD burner (External Backpack
>> drive) the problem is the laptop I normally watch on is not quite up
>> to DVD, at least not DVD via USB (it is supposed to be able to play
>> DVD direct if I get a drive for it)
>>
>> Replay plays fine.. Same program in fact (Power DVD) to play it
>>
>> I only have occassional issues doing a Replay file.. .Usually those
>> are when I try to multitask the computer.
>>
>> So... It's easier this way
>>
>> Also... I'm not yet up to the rip&burn stage with DVD's. And so far
>> all I've seen is "Can Not Copy"
>
>
> Get DVDShrink (free), it will remove encryption, reencode to fit a DVD-9
> to DVD-5 and even burn the result if you have 2 drives. Auto mode is a
> simple click and do it all.

Already have it Have never used it however.

But I'd say from looking at the directions it's no easier than what I do now

Of course the job this week is setting up a new computer

It's a 1.0 GHz AMD with a bunch of ram and 60 Gigs of HD. High end
graphics and sound. No modem (at the moment, I may fix that.... Or not)
and no operating system... But it does work. Seems some drug dealer
decided he did not need his computer any more... I got it (properly
cleaned) at police auction for $3.00b
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 11:47:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D wrote:

> Scott Seligman wrote:
>
>> Tony D <Tony_D@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The media is hideously expensive.
>>
>>
>>
>> 50 cents (17 cents for generic) a disc isn't CD-R cheap, but it's not
>> really
>> all that expensive anymore.
>>
> What are you talking about. Dual Layer disks are $12.50 each.

He said what he is talking about CD, not DVD

And he's paying way too much for CD's. I've gotten brand name (SONY)
CD-R for as low as EIGHT cents per disk
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 2:50:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
> (yeah, right). What that basicaly means is if you d/l from the next
>guy on the leg you get great speed. Across the internet, with huge files
>and half the stops along the way throttling your connection 600k is

Still sounds weak, I can get over 1Mbps downloading from most major
servers. Some servers throttle their connections to control hogs, but
that's the server - obviously you wouldn't want to do that with a
movie server if you can avoid it.

I know all about head-end congestion. I used to work for GTEI, and we
provided the head-end backhaul for several cable modem and DSL
plants. They tend to go through boom/bust cycles. When first
installed the first users get plenty of bandwidth, then they sell
services until they've massively over-subscribed the head-end. Then
they upgrade the head-end and everyone has more then they need - until
they over-subscribe again. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Generally though, it is only a few hours of the day that things really
get tight - overnight the bandwidth usage plummets and downloads are
fast. One of the benefits to being a night owl, I never had to deal
with using my line during peak hours.

>pretty good. Megazone refers to 3m dsl, which is laughable also because
>Ma & Pa Kettle who own most Tivos aren't going for it, even if it was

Verizon is bumping their minimum ADSL download speed to 3Mbps, area by
area. Which means if you get their *minimum* DSL, you get 3Mbps.
Charter is doing the same with their cable modems. Faster speeds are
available in some areas. Speakeasy offers a 6Mbps service, but it
costs more than most people are probably willing to spend. And there
really isn't much need for that much speed now anyway.

Chicken and egg - if movie services become popular that'd drive the
desire for fatter pipes. That's how it always is.

2400bps is fast enough for *text*. If all you were doing was running
shell and looking at text, that's all you need. 9600bps is plenty
faster for updating text then any human can read.

The desires for faster speeds were driven by the desire for graphics,
then animations, then video, music, etc. At each stage there is
always a period when technology gets ahead of the pipes, and things
are too slow, until enough people want the new shiny thing and it
drives the market to produce fatter pipes - and/or better compression.

V.42/V/42bis were the standard for a LONG time, until V.44 was
produced to wring the last drop out of dial up. After the bump from
V.34 to V.90/V.92 maxed out the pipe. Analog modems will never get
faster than V.92, it is a limitation of the infrastructure.


I'd love to see what the people poo-poo'ing this idea would say if
DNNA turns around and says they're looking into it again too. I bet
suddenly it wouldn't seem like such a dumb idea then, for some
reason...

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 2:52:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

wa8yxm@do.not.spam.arrl.net shaped the electrons to say:
>I'll second what someone said about 600K Download speeds via cable, I
>get 970 to 1,000K on DSL (1meg or 1,000K is T-1 speed)

Actually a T1 is 1.536Mbps (1.544Mbps including overhead).

24 64Kbps channels.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 1:48:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

John wrote:

> Have you considered providing actual links for these things? Both
> refer to pages with no indication of speed tests.
>
> Here's one that actually works: http://www.dslreports.com/stest
>

Uh, DSLreports *IS* Broadband.com if I recall correctly

And that is one of the testers I used by the way. I've used a bunch of
them, at least a half dozen different ones, and all gave similar results
(Though I do admit some of them took a couple of tries before I got
the 1-meg/second rating due to server load... DSLreports makes note of
this in their documentation)

Detroit is zip code 48219 or 48240 and read broadband's speed reports.
I'm no speed demon it seems
September 14, 2004 2:16:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:48:16 GMT, John in Detroit
<Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>John wrote:
>
>> Have you considered providing actual links for these things? Both
>> refer to pages with no indication of speed tests.
>>
>> Here's one that actually works: http://www.dslreports.com/stest
>>
>
>Uh, DSLreports *IS* Broadband.com if I recall correctly
>

Maybe. However, I did post the actual link. Why didn't you?

I did some searching from that first one (wugnet) and found 2. One
didn't work (always returned NaN Kbps) and the other would take
forever,

>And that is one of the testers I used by the way. I've used a bunch of
>them, at least a half dozen different ones, and all gave similar results
>(Though I do admit some of them took a couple of tries before I got
>the 1-meg/second rating due to server load... DSLreports makes note of
>this in their documentation)
>
>Detroit is zip code 48219 or 48240 and read broadband's speed reports.

Checking with my map, both are correct.

>I'm no speed demon it seems

I have 1024kbps/128kbps cable (in Texas), and am beginning to wish a
higher speed was available here.
Anonymous
September 15, 2004 7:59:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

MegaZone wrote:
> Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>
>>Why a Tivo cheerleader would post to a Replay forum is beyond me. But be
>
>
> Anyone who doesn't spout the party line is a TiVo cheerleader to you,
> I've been watching you for a while. So easy to dismiss any arguments
> you don't like that way, isn't it?

You've posted that you do not own a replay. You have no use experience.
In continual posts to THIS forum your basic line is, "No, Tivo can't do
this, no Tivo can't do that, No, but they planning to....., BUT DNNA can
remove those features whenever they choose."
>
> I'm not so small minded that I only want to read about
> products I use.

No but pontificating about something you don't know about is humorous.
>
>
>>And your assessment of Tivo's finances vs DNNA is hilarious. Like I also
>>said, don't list your theories, call a broker.
>
>
> My assessment? I see you also lack any reading comprehension. Did
> you notice how I said your post was full of FUD (you know what that
> is, right? Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt - a common scare tactic used
> by those with no real arguments) and 'no better than' the posts about
> RTV going out of business?

Like I said "theories" are unnecessary. Numbers do not "scare tactics"
>
> I think your posts about the potential Tivo/Netflex deal (which is
> just an industry rumor, I'd note) are pure FUD. Complete bullshit
> without any supporting facts. How can there be supporting facts when
> *neither* Netflix nor TiVo have made any announcements and the
> comments amount to 'no comment'.

They have announced they are working on this. And while there is
"speculation", there is no doubt on the hurdles entailed. CNET had an
extensive analysis of these. Like I said, Let us know how they make out.
>
> I do believe that DNNA is pulling out of the
> standalone DVR business.

What is there to believe? THey've said it. Escient and Denon media
servers are their focus.

> After the buyout DNNA dropped features then in development,
> like MP3 support and USB WiFi support, and they haven't updated the HW
> at all. Apparently not even a manufacturing respin to use newer
> components and reduce costs. There was one major SW bump for the 5500
> release which dropped Send Show and Commercial Advance and added
> Show|Nav.

The 5000 and 5500 software is identical. And I know you like to say CA
was removed, but actually DNNA made an end around the SB agreement and
returned it to 55XX units via SHOW|NAV. It's only purpose being to skip
commercials.

>
> You like to spread FUD about TiVo and call people 'TiVo cheerleaders',
> I like to actually intelligently discuss facts.
>
More than any company I can currently think of, Tivo is a supplier of
vaporware. But hey, keep skaking those pom-poms.
Anonymous
September 15, 2004 8:40:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>You've posted that you do not own a replay. You have no use experience.

I don't own one, but I have used them. I know people who own them,
I've also read the RTV documentation, more than most RTV users
probably have.

>In continual posts to THIS forum your basic line is, "No, Tivo can't do
>this, no Tivo can't do that, No, but they planning to....., BUT DNNA can
>remove those features whenever they choose."

Really? What posts have you been reading anyway? You have an
interesting reality filter.

Actually, if anything, I'm probably guilty of saying "RTV doesn't do
that, TiVo does..." or "Why can't RTV handle that, TiVo can". I try
not to, but I know I do sometimes.

>No but pontificating about something you don't know about is humorous.

Oh, pot, kettle, black. Since you like to talk about TiVo and their
plans and *often* get it dead wrong. How many times have I had to
correct you?

>Like I said "theories" are unnecessary. Numbers do not "scare tactics"

HA! You are the one who posted bullshit FUD about 'exhorbinant'
prices when no pricing info is available. What a hypocrite.

Most of what you post about "TiVo's plans" are theories.

>They have announced they are working on this. And while there is

They have? Both TiVo and Netflix has refused to comment on
speculation that there may be a deal beyond stating that they've
talked about a distribution partnership in the past and that they
'brainstorm' together. Which isn't surprising considering Ramsey is
on the Netflix board, TiVo has stated an interest in providing video
downloads and Netflix has stated an interest in broadband rentals. I
think anyone with a few brain cells can put two and two together and
figure out they're probably talking about a partnership. But the
public discussion by the companies amounts to 'no comment'.

Here's some references:
http://news.com.com/Picture+imperfect+for+Netflix%2C+Ti...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronic...
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-netflix8sep08,1,8...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5915470/site/newsweek

>"speculation", there is no doubt on the hurdles entailed. CNET had an
>extensive analysis of these. Like I said, Let us know how they make out.

There are definitely hurdles. There are hurdles to *every* business
deal and every new product.

If a new company like Akimbo can cut some deals, surely companies like
TiVo and Netflix can cut a deal.

Sony is already a TiVo licensee, and I think they may be an investor,
and they own Columbia pictures - and just bought MGM.

Do you really think this is a *bad* idea? I don't think anyone would
make money on it for a long time, but I do believe it is the way
things will move and it is often better to lead than to follow.

If DNNA decided to jump into this arena somehow I doubt you'd be
criticising the move. And, frankly, the RTV units are probably better
suited to this since they all do progressive video and 5.1 audio
(well, at least since the 4k), while only some TiVos have those
features. So the RTV units could provide a better DVD viewing
experience from downloaded DVD content.

>> components and reduce costs. There was one major SW bump for the 5500
>> release which dropped Send Show and Commercial Advance and added
>> Show|Nav.
>The 5000 and 5500 software is identical. And I know you like to say CA
>was removed, but actually DNNA made an end around the SB agreement and
>returned it to 55XX units via SHOW|NAV. It's only purpose being to skip
>commercials.

You don't even read a goddamn thing I say do you? Try again, see
where I say "which dropped Send Show and Commercial Advance and added
Show|Nav." So what was the point of *repeating* what I said to tell
me about Show|Nav? Wake up. Commercial Advance is not Show|Nav, I
know what they both do, I know they're similar. But similar is not
the same. It is accurate to say they dropped Commercial Advance and
added Show|Nav.

>More than any company I can currently think of, Tivo is a supplier of
>vaporware. But hey, keep skaking those pom-poms.

Really? Let's hear it then. What is their vaporware?

Let me rattle off a few products or features announced by/for RTV in
the past (mostly by SonicBlue):
- MP3 playback
- Sharing content between the 4k and 5k boxes
- USB WiFi adapter support
- iChannels
- RTV/DVD Combo unit
- RTV/VCR Combo unit
- RTV 'thin client' for streaming from a full unit

Several years ago I heard an interview with some SB executive who went
on and on about how they would bring 'synergy' to their product lines
and they'd use the expertise of RTV and GoVideo to produce the RTV/DVD
and RTV/VCR combo units. How they'd bring truly integrated devices
into the home, and how they'd do it before anyone else. Uh-huh...

On TiVo's side what have they talk about as a product and failed to
deliver?
- Broadband content from JellyVision, RealNetworks, and Radiance as
announced with the S2 way back.
- Connecting MP3 players to the unit directly

I may well be forgetting things, for both RTV and TiVo, so feel free
to provide more. I'd be happy to have a real discussion of the
features of each unit.

TiVo/DirecTV? Check. TiVo/DVD units? Check. TiVo/DVD-RW units?
Check. MP3 playback? Check. Photo viewing? Check. Online
scheduling? Check. Sharing between units? Check. HDTV/DirecTV?
Check.

You can't count the Netflix deal as vaporware since Tivo has never
announced it or claimed it would happen. I also don't think it is
fair to consider something like TiVoToGo vaporware since they said
it'd be out in late 2004, so it isn't supposed to be out yet. If you
wanted to claim that I could claim the Escient media server with DVR
features is vaporware on the same grounds - they were both announced
at CES2004. (I was there, I'm already booked for CES2005 too.)

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
September 15, 2004 10:05:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>Do you really think this is a *bad* idea? I don't think anyone would
>make money on it for a long time,

Why not? There is very little infrastructure to build beyond what is already in
place. This is really only depending on how long it takes the bean counters and
lawyers to agree on a price.
PPV movies are already sent "in the clear" I doubt you really need any more
protection as long as the net distribution stays on the PPV schedule. They can
always add the copyright flags or a Macrovision type protection.
!