Water cooling Asetek 545LC: which fan to use with it?

[magdyreda]

Hello, inside my new SX79R5 SFF I've got an Intel i7-3820 and an ASUS GTX680.
Even if I won't overclock the cpu I've decided to go with a water cooling solution by Asetec, the 545LC is just perfect for the little space inside the Shuttle barebone.

With this water cooling I'd like to use a NOCTUA NF-B9 PWM because it is said to be very quiet, 17.6 dBA, MAX RPM 1600, airflow is 37.8 CFM

The question is: is it enough? Do I need more airflow and/or fan speed (2000/3000 RMP ??!) for that processor even if I won't overclock it?

If I need something else which fan whould you choose? Why?

Tks, Mag

 

[nna2]

your really wasting your money and time going for that "water cooling"

prebuilt water coolers aren't as good as some believe em to be
your better off sticking with what you have at the moment

 

[MouseTrap]

Take a look here it may be of some help: Shuttle Install 545LC 92mm Performance Liquid CPU Cooler (Cooling Page 5)
The 545LC setup seems to do a good job when OC'ed, but at stock it would not be needed, although not everything is always needed... Good-luck!

 

[magdyreda]

nna2, tks but I've already got it because, as MouseTrap said, non everything is always needed!!
MouseTrap, yes, that review is exactly where I got the idea to get that water-cooling.
I had 3 Shuttle barebones in the past and actually they can be noisy when under stress...the problem is the review doesn't mention which fan was used.
So, I read this http://www.quietpc.com/products/92mmfans and I've decided to go with NOCTUA, it is really silent but what if it is so silent, and ineffective, that my barebone mealts!??!?!

 

[Motopsychojdn]

There is a fan roundup at the top of cpu/components section if you want to check some data out
and I agree, its not always because you need to do something, sometimes its because you want to
Moto

 

[magdyreda]

Tks Motopsychojdn, I'll have another look but they are not 92mm fan.

I had another look at this http://www.motormice.com/reviews/SX79R5/cooling.htm as MouseTrap suggested and zooming on the image I could read High-End on the fan used with the 545LC. I googled it and I found MotorMice used an Asetek Vapochill Micro 92mm (3800RPM, 67.0 CFM, 35dBA) while the built-in Shuttle I.C.E. cooling has a 92mm fan: 3200RPM, 50.0CFM, 43dBA.

With these numbers I feel the NOCTUA's are too low, what do you think?

 

[MouseTrap]

I think you are correct, Those Noctua's fans are not going to do the trick like you were hoping... I would try finding something with higher static pressure. Maybe even something at a set RPM but in the noise level you would like to be. This may open up your options a little more. Just a thought!

 

[magdyreda]

Tks MouseTrap. Well, I've purchased the Noctua yesterday, so it's too late to cry.
I've now ordered the Asetek Vapochill Micro 92mm used in the review and a Zalman ZM-F2 PLUS 92mm fan (55.9CMF, 2800RPM and 36dBA).
The review tests the Asetek on a Intel i7 3930K 6 cores cpu overclocked at 4.4GHz.
I'll test all 3 fans as soon as they arrive on my stock Intel i7-3820, posting here the results for future reference.

 

[MouseTrap]

Tks MouseTrap. Well, I've purchased the Noctua yesterday, so it's too late to cry.
I've now ordered the Asetek Vapochill Micro 92mm used in the review and a Zalman ZM-F2 PLUS 92mm fan (55.9CMF, 2800RPM and 36dBA).
The review tests the Asetek on a Intel i7 3930K 6 cores cpu overclocked at 4.4GHz.
I'll test all 3 fans as soon as they arrive on my stock Intel i7-3820, posting here the results for future reference.

Sounds good! I look forward to the results.

Good Luck!

 

[jazjon]

After much research, I just ordered the Scythe Kama 92mm PWM Fan (DFS922512M-PWM) to go in the stock ICE radiator
(google: Shuttle 92mm fan) you'll see lots of reviews, newegg, etc etc

It seems to have the best airflow/rpm compared to the others, and was confirmed to be very quiet.

Is the 545LC really that much more efficient than the built in Shuttle heat piped ICE?

I'd like to possibly find a quieter 50mm fan for the 500w PSU next. My super sonic hearing can hear it. I'm not sure if that's possible yet. (just stared researching).

 

[magdyreda]

JazJon, thank you for the suggestion. I'll test and publish results of the purchased fans this week. About your question, the ICE solution is quite effective I think; I'm trying to keep my barebone as silent as I can, few db could make the difference and I'd like to reach the optimum compromise.
Here you have some 50mm fan with all the necessary info, noise, airflow ecc.
Do you know the built-in 50mm fan specs?

 

[magdyreda]

Oh, here at http://www.shuttle.eu/it/prodotti/xpc-accessories/pc63j/
Shuttle sais:
Noise: <30dB at 50cm for 200W load
50mm fans at QuitePc.com can be 19/22 dB at maximum load...minus 10 dB is not bad!

 

[jazjon]

JazJon, thank you for the suggestion. I'll test and publish results of the purchased fans this week. About your question, the ICE solution is quite effective I think; I'm trying to keep my barebone as silent as I can, few db could make the difference and I'd like to reach the optimum compromise.
Here you have some 50mm fan with all the necessary info, noise, airflow ecc.
Do you know the built-in 50mm fan specs?

I'll post the results of my fan install as well. I just ordered from amazon and tracking says I'll get it next week. I'm pretty confident my system will be quiet but you never know.

I do not know the specs of the 50mm fan, and google didn't turn up much. I don't think it's that big of the deal actually. The main problem is the RPM pitch of the 92mm going up/down/up/down/up/down. One solution by the way is to set the MAX cpu to 50% under power settings in Windows 7. You'll have plenty of horse power for basic HTPC video watching, but you can easily switch to maximum performance profile when it's time to edit videos (or play a game)

By the way, since Windows Home Server is being phased out and not included in 2012, I've thought about having my Shuttle PC pull double duty as a server.
(Windows 8 has StorageSpaces Drive Pooling built in)

I found a mini PCIe eSata/mSata card that will allow us to hookup external drive enclosures. Google the: MPX-3132 (I emailed tech support and they confirmed it does 5 bay mSata connections) I'm ordering one special from the manufacturer directly.

If interested, See this thread:
http://www.mymovies.dk/forum.aspx?g=posts&m=151231&#151231

 

[jazjon]

Oh, here at http://www.shuttle.eu/it/prodotti/xpc-accessories/pc63j/
Shuttle sais:
Noise: <30dB at 50cm for 200W load
50mm fans at QuitePc.com can be 19/22 dB at maximum load...minus 10 dB is not bad!

Nice, I should probably order one and try it. I don't want my PSU to over heat though hmmm It's all about the preasure/air flow, as long as it's nearly the same.

 

[StefH]

Hi everybody,
I want to use this thread for some help from you experts about some questions I have.
question 1]
When setting the Fan2 Speed Control to a value of Ultra-Low Mode, Low Mode or Mid Mode and I start the PC, it seems that the fan is always set to Full mode and it's very noisy. I verified the RPM using FanSpeed and it's above 3000. This does look as if there is a problem ? Note that the CPU temperatures are about 37 to 42 Celsius. And the BIOS version is 1.07
When using 'Smart Fan Speed', it works correct although the fan is still a little bit noisy and the RPM goes a little bit up and down, which makes it sometimes a bit irritating noise.

question 2]
If I want to replace only the default 92MM fan with a quieter one, should I take a PWM version because the fan-connector on the mainboard has 4 pins ?
And which fan from this list should be a correct replacement ? I was thinking about the Zalman or Nexus who have a airflow from 40+.

question 3]
If I would take the 545LC which fan from this list is then the best based on your experiences ?

Some help / advice is needed.
Thank you all.

 

[jazjon]

Success! I replaced the CPU fan of my SX79R5 with the Scythe Kama 92mm PWM Fan (DFS922512M-PWM)

As far as the CPU fan sound, It's nearly silent and totally quiet enough for the livingroom. It's a barely can hear gentle sound you can barely make out from across the room. My Fridge and Wine Fridge in kitchen, and general city noise is all I hear from the living room now. (ignoring the PSU fan, more on that below)

Unfortunately my suspicions about the 50mm power supply fan are true. I can still hear a steady almost grind-y'ish prop noise coming from the PSU fan. I stuck a screw driver in to stop the 50mm from spinning, and what I said above was true for the 92mm CPU fan now being quiet.

I'm going to order a 50mm fan, replace it, and hope for the best! Hmmm how do I know if the PSU 50mm fan is 3 or 4 pin?

The specs link you posted says:
<30dB at 50cm for 200W load
50mm ball bearing fan with thermal Fan-speed control

Doesn't "thermal Fan-speed control" mean it's 4 wires?

The one 50mm fan QuietPC sells is only 3 pin.
http://www.quietpcusa.com/Rasurbo-Ultra-Quiet-50x50x10mm-Computer-Case-Fan-with-3-Pin-Connector-P82C64.aspx

I'd hate to open it all up and find I can't wire up correctly.

Hi everybody,
I want to use this thread for some help from you experts about some questions I have.
question 1]
When setting the Fan2 Speed Control to a value of Ultra-Low Mode, Low Mode or Mid Mode and I start the PC, it seems that the fan is always set to Full mode and it's very noisy. I verified the RPM using FanSpeed and it's above 3000. This does look as if there is a problem ? Note that the CPU temperatures are about 37 to 42 Celsius. And the BIOS version is 1.07
When using 'Smart Fan Speed', it works correct although the fan is still a little bit noisy and the RPM goes a little bit up and down, which makes it sometimes a bit irritating noise.

question 2]
If I want to replace only the default 92MM fan with a quieter one, should I take a PWM version because the fan-connector on the mainboard has 4 pins ?
And which fan from this list should be a correct replacement ? I was thinking about the Zalman or Nexus who have a airflow from 40+.

question 3]
If I would take the 545LC which fan from this list is then the best based on your experiences ?

Some help / advice is needed.
Thank you all.

1)
Yes, I can confirm there is a bug in the Bios it seems. My fan stays at FULL SPEED even if I pick the ultra low, low, medium, etc. My fan behaves normally if I leave it on auto. My previous Shuttle SX58J3 bios did NOT behave this way. (it actually obeyed the setting I gave it) Interesting, someone should report this bug to shuttle! Luckily I'm happy on Auto now that I have a quiet fan installed.

2) YES only but a PWM version or the motherboard can't control the speed of the fan and it will also be hard to wire up correctly. (from what I gather)

3) I don't think the 545LC is needed, I'm pretty happy with the stock cooler that is already a liquid heat pipe. Why replace one liquid cooler with another liquid cooler?? (unless someone can tell me why this other one is far better??)

 

[jazjon]

Hmmmm it says "You are not allowed to edit this message" so I guess I'll add one more thing here. (and ignore my poorly constructed sentence description above)

I wanted to add:

I found another site that sells the 50mm fan with a 4 pin adapter as an accessory add-on
http://www.acousticpc.com/rasurbo_50x10mm_fan.html
This might be good, I'll give it a shot. I feel better having the 4 pin adapter handy even if I'm not sure I'll need it or not yet. (I don't want to open it up twice)

 

[jazjon]

Again, I can't edit my posts for some reason so sorry for the tripe posts in a row. I wanted to add:

I can looked into the PSU and can make out some of the fan's info. It seems to say:
MGA5012XB-02

I only see TWO wires as well. What do I do if I open it up, and it only has two wires but I bought a new fan with three wires?

 

[jazjon]

Update:
As I said, I'm happy with the Scythe Kama 92mm PWM Fan. When my HTPC is very busy and or it's hotter than usual in the room itself, I do hear it spinning faster. It's still pretty quiet, and I'm happy you can't detect RPM changes. (no up/down/up down like the stock fan) Most of the time it's on the low RPM end on an average day though. I too would not mind another 3db lower in noise. It got me thinking and wanted to ask. Just how much more efficient is the Asetek 545LC compared to the stock Shuttle I.C.E. Cooler? If it's show to extract heat better/faster, that would result in a cooler CPU, which would keep the RPM's of the fan much lower. I think I might just try it if I can get confirmation it's truly worth the swap effort and cost. Thoughts?

EDIT: Looks like the link you provided above sold me on the Asetek 545LC.
http://www.motormice.com/reviews/SX79R5/cooling.htm
I glossed over it thinking I didn't want it, but now I do!

 

[jazjon]

I got a reply back on the 50mm fan for the power supply:

______________________

"Dear Jon,

Thank you for contacting us regarding the power supply fan.

Unfortunately the 50mm Rasurbo fan that we stock is not rated for power supply applications. The only fan that we stock that is rated for power supplies is the AcoustiFan Dustproof fan. The smallest one that we stock is 60mm. Power supply applications require a fan that can withstand more heat than a standard case fan. I have heard of people that install standard case fans in their power supplies. The problem with them is that they do not always last too long in a power supply environment.

In case you happen to not have electrical technician's training, I will mention that a person should be careful when working on power supplies. They contain capacitors that store electricity somewhat like a battery. Should a person accidentally ground out a bank of capacitors, it could produce a lethal shock. We recommend changing out a defective power supply outright as a unit rather than opening up a power supply and attempting to repair it. It is better to be safe than sorry.

Sincerely,

Quiet PC USA"
________________________________



So I can either risk it, or maybe I should do a side mount fan like the following example? (use a nibbler to cut a hole etc)

http://www.josephclemente.com/shuttle-kpc-k45

 

[magdyreda]

Hi, here I am again. I've got 2 Noctua NF-B9 PWM and 1 Zalman ZM-F2 PLUS 92mm fan, I think this one is similar to the Kama got by JazJon.
Well, being my first time to test my pc I'd love anybody to suggest me what to actually test and how to.
I've got Intel(R) Extreme Tuning Utility and run the stress test for 5 minutes on my Intel i7-3820 (not overclocked), ASUS GTX680 and Asetec 545LC watercooling.
First I tested two Noctua in a push/pull configuration: 71°.
Then one Noctua...67°!!??! Why?!?!? Help me understanding that!!
Then one Zalman (pull) and one Noctua (push): 61°.
Then only the Zalman: 63°.
The problem with the push/pull configuration and the Asetec....there is no space for the DVD burner; I could force it in but I'm afraid to break the cooling tubes.
JazJon, quite disappointed we cannot get a silent 50mm fan, the side mount fan is smart but "hard" to look at!!

Now the questions:
1) Again...suggest, please, what and how to test it.
2) Both the Asetec and one fan are connected to the main fan connector (with a split connector). The second fan is connected to the second connector. Is it correct?
3) Speed fan writes, for example, fan1 1775rpm, fan2 1445rpm. Which one is which? It writes the same even if I've only one fan connected. Why??!
4) The max core temperature is 70°??? Or 100°?
Thank you!

 

[jazjon]

Wait, why do you need to hookup TWO fans? Help me understand why the DVD burner would be in the way.

I thought we replace the ICE cooler with the 545LC, and just hookup the one fan we've been using. (and you're done)

am I missing something? Tell me more about this push/pull stuff.

 

[magdyreda]

Well JazJon, MotorMice's "SX79R5+Asetec" review used an Asetek Vapochill Micro 92mm fan (3800RPM, 67.0 CFM, 35dBA) and the built-in Shuttle I.C.E. cooling has a 92mm fan: 3200RPM, 50.0CFM, 43dBA.
Having got a NOCTUA NF-B9 PWM (17.6 dBA, MAX RPM 1600, airflow 37.8 CFM) I had the idea the airflow would be not enough to cool the cpu.
So I decided to try the push/pull configuration: one fan pushes the air to the radiator (in the middle of the two) and the second fan pulls the hot air out.
The solution didn't play as I expected but I'm not sure I made all the fan connection in the right way...SpeedFan is giving info I cannot/don't know how to verify...the pull fan show be faster then the push one. SpeedFan writes Fan1 and Fan2 with different speeds...which is which!?!?!
Oh, about the space, having two fan and the radiator, it takes so much space that the dvd recorder cannot be inside without moving the tubes...and I'm afraid to break everything!!??!
Sorry guys, new here...be patient!!

 

[jazjon]

Oh I see, so you added the second fan to the outside of the case. Maybe a good idea, but might add more noise. I'm thinking the Asetek will cool things SO much on it's own, the ONE fan will be at a constant low RPM so no second fan is needed. Just try one heh. My Asetek JUST arrived today. It was shipped from San Jose and I live in San Francisco so 1 day shipping nice. I don't think I have time to install it today though and don't want to mess up my Media Center TV recording schedule

 

[magdyreda]

Well, I've got everything inside the barebone, that is the reason why no space is left for the dvd unit. Now it is time to sleep here, I'll continue tomorrow. Let me know how your Asetec is going. See you!