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Should i wait for NVIDIA DirectX 11 series?

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a b U Graphics card
December 25, 2009 4:12:17 AM

I just bought a new computer thanks to some great people in here who helped me
Everything except GPU
Now i like 5850 very very much
but do you guys suggest that i should wait for NVIDIA new generation cards?
I can still wait for two months
When are they coming
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
December 25, 2009 4:27:33 AM

No one knows exactly when they will be released nor their performance or pricing. If the HD5850 fits your needs and you can afford it I wouldn't hesitate.
a b U Graphics card
December 25, 2009 4:39:02 AM

You shouldn't wait for something like Nvidia DX11 cards if you don't have specific interest/use with that product. If a current existing solution is fit for your needs then don't hesitate to get it.

As for me, what I'm waiting was when the prices drop. :) 
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a b U Graphics card
December 25, 2009 4:50:21 AM

I can buy a low end card and still wait for NVIDIA cards but do you people think that waiting is worth it?
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
December 25, 2009 5:07:13 AM

What precisely are you hoping the waiting will help with? If money is an issue the Nvidia cards may inspire a price drop on the HD5850 but perhaps not. From what I've read I doubt when first released the Nvidia cards will be particularly competitive with the ATI cards on a pure price/performance level. Buying a temporary lower end card would likely negate the possible price drop advantage anyway.
a b U Graphics card
December 25, 2009 7:53:11 AM

So I should go for 5850?
a b U Graphics card
December 25, 2009 8:17:44 AM

I'm waiting for Nvidia, mostly because it should mean better prices on AMD's side (not to mention the benefits of a 5870 over my setup are pretty much nothing until some more dx11 games come out).

It is a hard call though considering you don't have any GPU setup at all. So yeah, go with a 5850 and then later down the road you can get another (if your mobo supports crossfire).

If you can find a used graphics card, like a 4870 or something, that you can resell for about the same price you got it for a few months down the road then I'd wait it out.
December 25, 2009 1:38:09 PM

Quote:
The fact that Nvidia couldn't produce Fermi in time for the Christmas season says a lot about the product.

Obviously there are issues that they are having trouble with AND/OR it wasn't competitive with what ATI already released so they decided to scrap/delay it.

If Nvidia had ANYTHING competitive on the table, believe me they would have released SOMETHING in time for the holidays.

Secret weapon... at the end
a c 1307 U Graphics card
a c 145 Î Nvidia
December 25, 2009 1:49:22 PM

If what you have in there now keeps you satisfied at the moment you should wait. If for nothing else than the price drop that is going to happen when the ATI card manufacturers keep up with the market demand. They will drop down to release prices.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
December 25, 2009 3:16:43 PM

mfarrukh said:
I can buy a low end card and still wait for NVIDIA cards but do you people think that waiting is worth it?


Sinse there is always a better card coming around the corner, you'll always be waiting for the next best thing. Unless you really don't like ATI, there isn't a lot of reason to wait for NVIDIA to release there next cards, which keep getting delayed atm.

If you choose to get a low end card now, get an Nvidia card that has PhysX. Even if it's considered fluff, I do see more people using it's abilities. I choose to get a low end nvidia card because you can make it a dedicated PhysX card after you get your new one, so it's not completely waisted money. Current benchmarks on Batman show that a single high end card loses a lot of FPS using PhysX (at high settings it becomes unplayable), but with a low end dedicated physX card, you lose almost no FPS.
December 26, 2009 10:58:41 AM

I'm waiting for the nvidia card to come out, then compare, I have a 275, so i'm good for now. Plus, that will give the game market more time to develop and/or come out with more dx11 games, plus Crysis 2 will probably launch with it.
December 26, 2009 11:17:33 AM

Questions to ask yourself:

1) Can the card play the games you're interested in?
2) Is it within your budget?
3) What are the cards shortcomings if any (heat, energy, noise) and can you live with them?
4) What is your DREAM PERFORMANCE? e.g. Single GPU averaging 50 fps in Crysis at the highest settings - how close do available cards get to the mark?
5) Will the Nvidia cards hit the DREAM performance mark or add meaningless 3-4 fps extra? i.e. HD 5850 = 22fps in Crysis - Nvidia 300 = 26 fps.
a b U Graphics card
December 26, 2009 11:35:25 AM

I don't have a budget problem
I can even buy 5970 HD right now
But I don't want that much performance. And ANAND TECH said ''5970 is a waste on 1 monitor''
Which means that it works best with 3 monitors
I am just trying to figure out that may be NVIDIA can give a better card.
December 26, 2009 11:37:57 AM

mfarrukh said:
I don't have a budget problem
I can even buy 5970 HD right now
But I don't want that much performance. And ANAND TECH said ''5970 is a waste on 1 monitor''
Which means that it works best with 3 monitors
I am just trying to figure out that may be NVIDIA can give a better card.




Define better.
December 26, 2009 3:36:21 PM

sedaine said:
Define better.

Really? You can't discern that for yourself?

I know i'm hoping the next Nvidia card has a smoothie attachment and a voice operated OCing system that will talk to you while you work out the frustrations of finding a limit for your card, maybe offer stock tips.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
December 26, 2009 4:12:08 PM

mfarrukh said:

I am just trying to figure out that may be NVIDIA can give a better card.


When NVIDIA releases their next card, you'll then be sitting there with the same question. "Should I buy the NVIDIA card, or wait to see if ATI's next card will be better?"

It really is a never ending cycle.
December 26, 2009 8:46:03 PM

5850 cf is way to go if you can find one for 260usd!
Crysis warhead avg 50fps not bad!
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
December 26, 2009 11:08:29 PM

whemian said:
5850 cf is way to go if you can find one for 260usd!

lol
I also recommend buying a BMW if you can find one for $1000 :p 
December 27, 2009 12:40:54 AM

You know what is so sad, up until yesterday I had 5 straight Nvidia cards starting from 3dfx, 6800xt, 8600gt, 8800gt, and the 9800gtx+........ Even by looking at my logo I loved Nvidia, its support, drivers, physx, its affiliated games, and evne the brand.... But I just got a 5850.

It is out of this world and I couldnt wait for FERMI or any of Nvidias GTX300 series..... While playing the original Crysis I did notice that the physics is a little different. Somehow the barrels and trees did feel a bit different in sway and bounch. I do think I will miss PhysX. It will take some time to getting used to but it is such a minor thing. Only a game like Crysis can make you realize the difference. Otherwise the framerate was so much smoother than my 9800GTX+ at Very high settings.

As for the Fermi series or Nvidia, it will take some time to come out as we have not even seen prototypes out on the web. SO if you are looking for a good card to buy, like me, DO NOT GET THE GTX285 and buy the 5850. Then when Nvidia comes out with the 300 series and hopefully it will be cheaper(highly unlikely) then wait for prices to go down and THEN buy one.

I got my 5850 here for $276! What a steal!
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 12:59:49 AM

My guess is Feb with low quatities at the earliest
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 1:32:56 AM

liquidsnake718 said:
You know what is so sad, up until yesterday I had 5 straight Nvidia cards starting from 3dfx, 6800xt, 8600gt, 8800gt, and the 9800gtx+........ Even by looking at my logo I loved Nvidia, its support, drivers, physx, its affiliated games, and evne the brand.... But I just got a 5850.

It is out of this world and I couldnt wait for FERMI or any of Nvidias GTX300 series..... While playing the original Crysis I did notice that the physics is a little different. Somehow the barrels and trees did feel a bit different in sway and bounch. I do think I will miss PhysX. It will take some time to getting used to but it is such a minor thing. Only a game like Crysis can make you realize the difference. Otherwise the framerate was so much smoother than my 9800GTX+ at Very high settings.

As for the Fermi series or Nvidia, it will take some time to come out as we have not even seen prototypes out on the web. SO if you are looking for a good card to buy, like me, DO NOT GET THE GTX285 and buy the 5850. Then when Nvidia comes out with the 300 series and hopefully it will be cheaper(highly unlikely) then wait for prices to go down and THEN buy one.

I got my 5850 here for $276! What a steal!


Dude... really? Do some research.
Crysis has in-house physics that use the CPU, they have NOTHING to do with PhysX.
Perhaps it looks different because you turned everything higher after you got the 5850 & you turned the Physics drop-down box up a level.



Just get the 5850, when Fermi does release, it'll be a couple of months. From the specs we've gleamed, it'll be hot, power-hungry, & most likely inefficient.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
December 27, 2009 4:23:32 AM

liquidsnake718 said:
You know what is so sad, up until yesterday I had 5 straight Nvidia cards starting from 3dfx, 6800xt, 8600gt, 8800gt, and the 9800gtx+........ Even by looking at my logo I loved Nvidia, its support, drivers, physx, its affiliated games, and evne the brand.... But I just got a 5850.

It is out of this world and I couldnt wait for FERMI or any of Nvidias GTX300 series..... While playing the original Crysis I did notice that the physics is a little different. Somehow the barrels and trees did feel a bit different in sway and bounch. I do think I will miss PhysX. It will take some time to getting used to but it is such a minor thing. Only a game like Crysis can make you realize the difference. Otherwise the framerate was so much smoother than my 9800GTX+ at Very high settings.

As for the Fermi series or Nvidia, it will take some time to come out as we have not even seen prototypes out on the web. SO if you are looking for a good card to buy, like me, DO NOT GET THE GTX285 and buy the 5850. Then when Nvidia comes out with the 300 series and hopefully it will be cheaper(highly unlikely) then wait for prices to go down and THEN buy one.

I got my 5850 here for $276! What a steal!


If you have a 2nd PCIe slot, you can put in that 9800gtx as a dedicated physX card. I'm currently running a 5870 with a 8800gt as a dedicated physX card, and it works awesome for the 1 game that takes advantage of it. It will require you to search the internet to make it work.
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 7:07:53 AM

liquidsnake718 said:
You know what is so sad, up until yesterday I had 5 straight Nvidia cards starting from 3dfx, 6800xt, 8600gt, 8800gt, and the 9800gtx+........ Even by looking at my logo I loved Nvidia, its support, drivers, physx, its affiliated games, and evne the brand.... But I just got a 5850.

It is out of this world and I couldnt wait for FERMI or any of Nvidias GTX300 series..... While playing the original Crysis I did notice that the physics is a little different. Somehow the barrels and trees did feel a bit different in sway and bounch. I do think I will miss PhysX. It will take some time to getting used to but it is such a minor thing. Only a game like Crysis can make you realize the difference. Otherwise the framerate was so much smoother than my 9800GTX+ at Very high settings.

As for the Fermi series or Nvidia, it will take some time to come out as we have not even seen prototypes out on the web. SO if you are looking for a good card to buy, like me, DO NOT GET THE GTX285 and buy the 5850. Then when Nvidia comes out with the 300 series and hopefully it will be cheaper(highly unlikely) then wait for prices to go down and THEN buy one.

I got my 5850 here for $276! What a steal!

It's rather odd that you would miss PhysX in Crysis...



Especially because Crysis doesn't use PhysX. It uses an entirely CPU-based physics engine that's part of the CryEngine 2. It should be exactly the same on ATI vs Nvidia (although the 5850 should be substantially faster than the 9800GTX you had). As far as it feeling subtly different, I'm calling placebo effect. You expected a difference, and therefore you saw one (even though it was nonexistant).
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 7:09:07 AM

bystander said:
If you have a 2nd PCIe slot, you can put in that 9800gtx as a dedicated physX card. I'm currently running a 5870 with a 8800gt as a dedicated physX card, and it works awesome for the 1 game that takes advantage of it. It will require you to search the internet to make it work.

That's impossible in Vista as of the last time I heard (since you need 2 separate video drivers to get it to work), and even in other OSes (I don't know if 7 supports it or not), you would need a lot of tinkering to get it to work at all, much less reliably. It could be worth a try, but I wouldn't count on success by any means.
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
December 27, 2009 7:29:17 AM

I just linked to the OPs configuration to see if it listed monitor size and it says there is a 5850 in the machine so thats sorted then :) 

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 7:53:02 AM

I would never wait for a card based on the brand. Only if there's something one card is going to have that the other card doesn't. Which there really isn't in this case; you're just waiting for one manufacturer to catch up with the other, and both cards will probably end up being really expensive.

I mean, yeah, you can say PhysX is the difference you're waiting for, but the difference of PhysX can currently be summed up as follows:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f370/capt_taco/avatar...

and it will NEVER become a standard requirement for games unless ATI also starts coming out with cards that support it, or cards that have something comparable and compatible.
December 27, 2009 10:19:48 AM

Flying Sq said:
Really? You can't discern that for yourself?

I know i'm hoping the next Nvidia card has a smoothie attachment and a voice operated OCing system that will talk to you while you work out the frustrations of finding a limit for your card, maybe offer stock tips.


'Better' is not necessarily quantitative. So I wanted toknow what he defines as better. i.e energy efficient (20w), Heat load (10 C), 1000fps playing crysis (but requiring 25,000w) etc. So he needs to quantify better so we understand what he's looking for.
December 27, 2009 2:00:35 PM

mfarrukh said:
I don't have a budget problem
I can even buy 5970 HD right now
But I don't want that much performance. And ANAND TECH said ''5970 is a waste on 1 monitor''
Which means that it works best with 3 monitors
I am just trying to figure out that may be NVIDIA can give a better card.

If it comes out better than the 5970, then it too will be a waste on a single monitor. I would bet that Nvidia went back to the drawing board to implement thier own "eyefinity" and to make the new cards more appealing, but they will also be the most expensive if they are "better".

If you don't do multi-monitor gaming, then stick with the 5850, it won't dissappoint.
December 27, 2009 2:03:39 PM

noob2222 said:
If it comes out better than the 5970, then it too will be a waste on a single monitor. I would bet that Nvidia went back to the drawing board to implement thier own "eyefinity" and to make the new cards more appealing, but they will also be the most expensive if they are "better".

If you don't do multi-monitor gaming, then stick with the 5850, it won't dissappoint.



Good point. Eyefinity good be the deal breaker.
a c 216 U Graphics card
a c 80 Î Nvidia
December 27, 2009 3:23:23 PM

cjl said:
That's impossible in Vista as of the last time I heard (since you need 2 separate video drivers to get it to work), and even in other OSes (I don't know if 7 supports it or not), you would need a lot of tinkering to get it to work at all, much less reliably. It could be worth a try, but I wouldn't count on success by any means.


It is impossible with Vista, but XP and Win 7 allow you to install two different video drivers. It currently works great for my machine with Win 7 installed.
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 3:39:13 PM

May be NVIDIA also introduces there own eyefinity with DirectX 11
That will be the real competition
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 6:26:29 PM

I doubt it, Fermi eats 250W with 448 SP's.
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
December 27, 2009 7:10:25 PM

Now i see you post that i just gotta ask.
Why does everyone see a high power usage as a bad thing ? I bet most everyone here would say screw the power usage if it was to be proved the best GPU you could get.
I can see the atraction of low power usage from a not needing to upgrade the PSU side of things but apart from that does it really matter ?
I mean i know power = heat yada yada but its nothing improved cooling cant handle.

Mactronix
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
December 27, 2009 7:23:53 PM

It probably also limits overclocking and the heat/power may be a big issue when it comes to SLI. Other than that no big deal I guess if you've got a good PSU and ventilation.
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 7:47:53 PM

Unless they do have some sort of cut down chip in the wings, but nothing on that at all.
Or, until next year late at the earliest, when 28nm gets here
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
December 27, 2009 8:11:18 PM

Quote:
Yes, tri sli setups may be out of the question and so would a dual gpu card although that is no different that the 200 series.


Well that's the thing really, I'm no Nvidia fan quite the opposite really, and without any finalised specs being released or even firmly rumoured the people who want to hate it before we even know what it is keep banging on about how much power it will use. So what ? as you say its far from a new thing, sure the trend of late has been to lower the power and increase the perf but if the perf is there and thats all you can knock it on then who really cares is what im saying. I prefer to keep an open mind and from what i have managed to glean it could be quite good.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 8:25:05 PM

I think it will be good. It all comes down to pricing, and just how good.
December 27, 2009 8:30:24 PM

mactronix said:
Now i see you post that i just gotta ask.
Why does everyone see a high power usage as a bad thing ? I bet most everyone here would say screw the power usage if it was to be proved the best GPU you could get.
I can see the atraction of low power usage from a not needing to upgrade the PSU side of things but apart from that does it really matter ?
I mean i know power = heat yada yada but its nothing improved cooling cant handle.

Mactronix




Yeah - my electric bill!

Remember P4 vs Athlon? The major difference was Intel said to hell with power - lets just push the Ghz. AMD was running their CPUs at 2.0 Ghz and Intel at 3.2 Ghz. Yeah - he Intels were faster - but not by that much.

So if you make a card that needs 300W, I'd expect it to give me at least 2X the performance of HD5850.
December 27, 2009 9:02:23 PM

Quote:
No, intel didn't say hell to power, they realised that "oh ***, we have a cpu that needs ghz, lets redeisgn our heatsinks and make a new mobo standard to cope.

Kinda like what gpu vendors did with the introduction of dual slot coolers.

I have always heard the heat and power things and so many people go along with it and use it in their buying decisions it is scary. I always say buy a bigger PSU and case with alot of fans and to hell with noise and heat.

For one thing I usually wear headphones nowadays and have not had my radiator in my bedroom on in years relying on the heat output of my various electronics to heat it up and they do a damn fine job.

Heat and noise only come into due to no other seperation in price or performance or fanboys.



So I guess you play more games during winter?!
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 9:22:30 PM

nVidia is the first to push the power envelope, when the 9700 Pro slaughtered the GeForce 4's they pushed GDDR2 (very expensive) & a huge, power-thirsty GPU into the GeForce FX.

Now that the 5xxx series slaughters the GTX 285/275/260 they're again doing the same.

A 3-slot cooler would look cool, don't you think?
Yea! Plus most enthusiasts with Antec 300's got plenty of slots to spare, why don't we use it?
We'll kill the 5xxx series for sure!

I can imagine that's what nVidia's thinking.
December 27, 2009 9:27:47 PM

I've got a power station next door, so I can handle whatever Nvidia throws my way.

I think the challenge these days, is how fast can they make them whilst keeping the power down.
December 27, 2009 9:29:01 PM

Quote:
It helps reduce the amount of porn I watch on these cold winter nights.


My porn looks GREAT with PhysX!
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 9:30:06 PM

sedaine said:
My porn looks GREAT with PhysX!


That better be sarcasm or we've got a retard PhysX fanboy on our hands.
December 27, 2009 9:40:42 PM

sabot00 said:
That better be sarcasm or we've got a retard PhysX fanboy on our hands.



Playboy bunnies rendered with PhysX
a b U Graphics card
December 27, 2009 9:44:13 PM

With a Fermi?
a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 168 Î Nvidia
December 27, 2009 9:46:11 PM

Quote:
Now, why don't nvidia try that marketing.

They might do once 3D becomes a bit more affordable and mainstream. ;) 
December 27, 2009 9:50:57 PM

Quote:
Now, why don't nvidia try that marketing.



It would definitely put pressure on HD5970 in the enhanced bunny accessories business. Now I wonder - can we render in real-time 'bunny accessories' and enhance them. Say you feel like they should be bigger just turn on the PhysX and watch them grow at 500 fps... computer stutters, 1000W PSU shakes vigorously and Nvdia Fermi dies. Damn. It overheated.
December 28, 2009 2:19:21 AM

If you don't do multi-monitor gaming, then stick with the 5850, it won't dissappoint.

I use a single 5850 with 3 x1 landscape at 5760x1080 and it handles it very well,, there is really no need to stay with single monitor set up anymore and if Nvidia doesn't support it then why buy there stuff.. also a 5850/5870/5970 can all be crossfired together .. you can have a 5850 and a 5970 in crossfire.. try that with a 295GTX and 275GTX and see the BSOD ..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/crazycrave/2003_...
December 28, 2009 3:12:28 PM

Why wait an unknown time for something of at best unknown quality?


I say at best, because every rumour currently going has Fermi as a power hungry, underperforming, driver sensitive (through emulation) dog of a GPU.


Right now, it really doesn't look like Fermi is going to radically alter the prices of ATi GPUs, more likely, by the time Fermi launches, the follow on ATi GPUs will be more of a consideration in AMD's pricing structure.


If you think waiting 3+ months to save a few bucks (with emphasis on the few) is worth it, go ahead... otherwise go grab yourself a cypress if you can get it. :) 
December 28, 2009 4:12:02 PM

No good DX11 titles out yet. Bad Company 2 in March, new nVidia card in March.. I say wait for March and get reduced pricing and more options.
!