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Been researching night and day, $4k system worth price?

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March 4, 2010 2:59:39 AM

Hi,

Name is Jack, my first post here, so do not kill me! Please criticize, suggest, improve my plan?

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: 2-3 Weeks

BUDGET RANGE: $2800-$3250 before rebates

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Medical field- Sql database(lytec md) with 10 users logged on from workstations-accessing large raw format xray pictures,etc, enter/pull patient demographics.

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Newegg.com or other reputable sites

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: USA

PARTS PREFERENCES: Intel CPU, Windows Server 2003 32bit

OVERCLOCKING: No

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: No

MONITOR RESOLUTION: N/a

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: Server will be running 24hrs,365 days a week. Reliability is most important! I wanted to go with a xenon server motherboard, but also no SATA III. Currently the main program LYTEC MD 2010 is 32bit software with a future 64bit edition released in at least 2years. System will be used for at least 5 years. Ssd will be running on the sata III, WD RE4s in a raid 1. The memory is excessive since 32bit can only address 4GB max. Also i was told that Windows server 2003 enterprise 32bit can address more than 4GB Ram? I am trying to lower the cost! I appreciate any help! Prices below before cashback.

CPU: Xeon W3570 $899(5%)
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7 $339(15%)
RAM: 1x Mushkin Enahnced Redline 3x2 GB 1600 mhz CAS Latency 6 $239(2%)
GPU: HD 5670 $99(15%)
SSD: Crucial C300 256GB $799(6.0%)
HDD: 2x WD RE4 2TB $620(2%)
PSU: Corsair HX850W $170
Case: Corsair Obsidian 800D $235 (8%)
Optical: SH-S223L $27(15%)
OS: Windows Server 2003 5cal 1cpu 32bit $150

Total: Without cashback/with software-$3,387, $3256-Without software/with rebates.
March 4, 2010 3:16:06 AM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Same CPU, just way cheaper, just has lower clock speed, no point spending extra 500$+ for a CPU thats 0.4ghz faster, a OC that can be achieved very easily... plus i doubt youll notice much difference between the two in real life application, easy 500 saved, other then that... perhaps a cheaper case, thats still full tower, comes down to personal choice though... and going to the thr hx750 would also save you a bit, while still running fine.
As for the 32bit version of windows server, no idea if it can support more then 4gb... as far as i know, 32bit can only address 4gb ram total, including video ram, get a 512mb version of the 5670, and only use 2 of the 3 dimms until you get a 64bit OS
March 4, 2010 3:32:55 AM

Thanks! The reason I went with the more expensive processor because the QPI is 6.4GT/s, the QPI on the processor you suggested the Xeon W3520 is 4.2GT/s. I guess the question is does a 2.2GT/s increase in QPI make that much difference?


p1n3apqlexpr3ss said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Same CPU, just way cheaper, just has lower clock speed, no point spending extra 500$+ for a CPU thats 0.4ghz faster, a OC that can be achieved very easily... plus i doubt youll notice much difference between the two in real life application, easy 500 saved, other then that... perhaps a cheaper case, thats still full tower, comes down to personal choice though... and going to the thr hx750 would also save you a bit, while still running fine.
As for the 32bit version of windows server, no idea if it can support more then 4gb... as far as i know, 32bit can only address 4gb ram total, including video ram, get a 512mb version of the 5670, and only use 2 of the 3 dimms until you get a 64bit OS
March 4, 2010 3:46:25 AM

Nah, therell be no real life performance impact, the higher QPI is most likely related to the higher clock speed of the more expensive processor anyway
March 4, 2010 4:03:42 AM

p1n3apqlexpr3ss said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Same CPU, just way cheaper, just has lower clock speed, no point spending extra 500$+ for a CPU thats 0.4ghz faster, a OC that can be achieved very easily... plus i doubt youll notice much difference between the two in real life application, easy 500 saved, other then that... perhaps a cheaper case, thats still full tower, comes down to personal choice though... and going to the thr hx750 would also save you a bit, while still running fine.
As for the 32bit version of windows server, no idea if it can support more then 4gb... as far as i know, 32bit can only address 4gb ram total, including video ram, get a 512mb version of the 5670, and only use 2 of the 3 dimms until you get a 64bit OS

I would not recommend overclocking in this case, given that one of the OPs top priorities was stability. As for the other components, since stability is key, I would get some good ECC RAM as well. Something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Top clocked, minimum latency, overvolted DDR3 (like the stuff linked in the first post) is not the way to go for a system where uptime and reliability are the primary concerns.

As for the CPU, there will be a performance difference between the W3520 and the W3570, but it won't be huge. It'll also be almost entirely due to the core speed difference - QPI isn't that important in most cases.
March 4, 2010 4:04:37 AM

P1n1, thanks again! Saved me a bunch. I feel the case is too expensive, but could not really find a case with good cable management and hot swap capability?

J

p1n3apqlexpr3ss said:
Nah, therell be no real life performance impact, the higher QPI is most likely related to the higher clock speed of the more expensive processor anyway

March 4, 2010 4:13:30 AM

cjl, Thanks for suggesting, but is the patriot ecc registered memory compatible with the Motherboard-Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7? I went with the Mushkin because it had the lowest Cas Latency/Timing, but i concur with your perspective.

cjl said:
I would not recommend overclocking in this case, given that one of the OPs top priorities was stability. As for the other components, since stability is key, I would get some good ECC RAM as well. Something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Top clocked, minimum latency, overvolted DDR3 (like the stuff linked in the first post) is not the way to go for a system where uptime and reliability are the primary concerns.

As for the CPU, there will be a performance difference between the W3520 and the W3570, but it won't be huge. It'll also be almost entirely due to the core speed difference - QPI isn't that important in most cases.

March 4, 2010 4:16:13 AM

bigj91 said:
cjl, Thanks for suggesting, but is the patriot ecc registered memory compatible with the Motherboard-Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7? I went with the Mushkin because it had the lowest Cas Latency/Timing, but i concur with your perspective.

It should be compatible, as long as you use a Xeon CPU. The Xeons are ECC compatible, while the i7s are not.
March 4, 2010 7:16:45 AM

Thanks for injecting some sense into me, not sure what I was thinking(shame on me). P1n3apqlExpr3ss, I would rather build this system, but the more I ponder, getting a Dell Precision T3500 or similar with next day onsite for 3years sounds even better. I am on the phone with Dell, Here is what I am supposed to spec,

"These requirements reflect the minimum requirements of the LytecMD application. Customers should not assume any operating system, network or hardware configuration is supported unless it is listed in this document. These requirements are designed to serve the needs of both large enterprise
customers as well as smaller physician groups in private practice. When purchasing hardware for your LytecMD system, consider the following:

Database server must have separate operating system and data partitions. Data partition must be a non-conflicted network drive. Separate OS (operating system) and data partitions are required with the data partition labeled (P). The drive letter must be a non-conflicting network drive. The biggest space-user is scanning or imaging. You will want to provision 10GB to 50GB a year for growth.

All RAID configuration must be hardware driven (i.e., a hardware RAID controller)

Use tape media if possible. This allows for a periodic archiving to cold storage and off-site storage backup.
Scale the tapes and tape backup drive to match expected growth.


LytecMD does not support 64 bit operating systems.

A domain infrastructure is required for use with LytecMD. A domain provides a robust security model with which to secure your entire network, and affords the ability to alter file and directory permissions at a more granular level.

Server Requirements-
Operating System

LytecMD has been tested and approved to operate on Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Standard or
Enterprise
. Any other operating system is untested and considered unsupported (please see the
exception under Oracle Database Servers). Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000/2003 Small Business
Server are not supported.

Sites with 1-25 users typically will use the c-tree Server database type.

Small Practice (1 to 25 concurrent users, 0-5 Terminal Services users - LytecMD Recommendation

Single Processor Dual core 2.0GHz+ or Quad core 1.8GHz+
RAM 4 GB
System Drive 32 GB or higher
Data Drive RAID-5,
Network Card 1 Gbps
Optical Drive (DVD) Required
Backup VXA, DLT, LTO or image based backup solution
(large enough to backup entire DATA folder)
Video 1024x768
UPS (Battery) 1500VA or higher

FAX SERVER- LytecMD recommends ZetaFax used with a Brooktrout fax board. ZetaFax and Windows Server 2003 fax server are both integrated and supported."

I am not sure about the fax server, as Brooktrout(hardware) and Zetafax(software) is EXPENSIVE!!

Thanks for the inputs, keep them coming!



cjl said:
It should be compatible, as long as you use a Xeon CPU. The Xeons are ECC compatible, while the i7s are not.

March 4, 2010 8:06:07 AM

Here is what $4,799 brings me from Dell(no tape back/operating system) any suggestions?-

1x-PowerEdge T310-PowerEdge T310 Chassis with upto 4 Hot-Plug Hard Drives and LCD Diagnostics

1x-Processor-Intel Xeon X3440, 2.53 GHz, 8M Cache, Turbo, HT

1x-Memory-4GB Memory (2x2GB), 1333MHz, Dual Ranked RDIMM

1x-Operating System-No Operating System

1x-Primary Controller-RAID 5-Add-in PERC H700 Adapter, Internal RAID Controller 512MB Cache for 3-4 Hot Plug Hard Drives

3x-Hard Drives-450GB 15K RPM Serial-Attach SCSI 6Gbps 3.5in Hotplug Hard Drive

1x-Additional Controller-None

1x-Power Supply-Redundant,400W

1x-OS Partitions-None

1x-Embedded Management-iDRAC6 Express

1x-Network Adapter-On-Board Dual Gigabit Network Adapter

1x-Internal Optical Drive-DVD-ROM, Internal

1x-Power Cords-Power Cord, NEMA 5-15P to C13 (2), wall plug, 10 feet, Quantity 2

1x-Hardware Support Services/Warranty-3 Year ProSupport for IT and Mission Critical 4HR 7x24 Onsite Pack




p1n3apqlexpr3ss said:
Nah, therell be no real life performance impact, the higher QPI is most likely related to the higher clock speed of the more expensive processor anyway

March 4, 2010 2:26:43 PM

http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&x=5&y=...

Just something to keep in mind... if you're going to go with Windows 2003 Server, you'll pretty much be forced to do the Service Packs (at least once... probably twice) over the life of that system. That said... why not just go ahead and jump in with Windows 2008 server? Is there a specific compatibility issue you're worried about?

And any version of Windows Server will be suitable for 10 users... so no reason to bother with the Enterprise version.

Btw, I work at a hospital... and we have a relatively modern IBM Blade Center running our HIS (Meditech... ugh!) and that is interfaced to a GE PACS for imaging. Sounds like you're trying to do this in-house... not so sure that's a good idea. Our 4 hour service contracts on our critical hardware help me sleep easier at night.
March 4, 2010 3:00:04 PM

Are you missing one more 5 pack of cals in your initial qoute? You state 10 users.

Do you need Terminal Service CALs? That is what messed me up on pricinig servers. Windows and TSC cals are confusing


bigj91 said:
Hi,

Name is Jack, my first post here, so do not kill me! Please criticize, suggest, improve my plan?

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: 2-3 Weeks

BUDGET RANGE: $2800-$3250 before rebates

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Medical field- Sql database(lytec md) with 10 users logged on from workstations-accessing large raw format xray pictures,etc, enter/pull patient demographics.

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Newegg.com or other reputable sites

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: USA

PARTS PREFERENCES: Intel CPU, Windows Server 2003 32bit

OVERCLOCKING: No

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: No

MONITOR RESOLUTION: N/a

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: Server will be running 24hrs,365 days a week. Reliability is most important! I wanted to go with a xenon server motherboard, but also no SATA III. Currently the main program LYTEC MD 2010 is 32bit software with a future 64bit edition released in at least 2years. System will be used for at least 5 years. Ssd will be running on the sata III, WD RE4s in a raid 1. The memory is excessive since 32bit can only address 4GB max. Also i was told that Windows server 2003 enterprise 32bit can address more than 4GB Ram? I am trying to lower the cost! I appreciate any help! Prices below before cashback.

CPU: Xeon W3570 $899(5%)
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7 $339(15%)
RAM: 1x Mushkin Enahnced Redline 3x2 GB 1600 mhz CAS Latency 6 $239(2%)
GPU: HD 5670 $99(15%)
SSD: Crucial C300 256GB $799(6.0%)
HDD: 2x WD RE4 2TB $620(2%)
PSU: Corsair HX850W $170
Case: Corsair Obsidian 800D $235 (8%)
Optical: SH-S223L $27(15%)
OS: Windows Server 2003 5cal 1cpu 32bit $150

Total: Without cashback/with software-$3,387, $3256-Without software/with rebates.

April 1, 2010 4:46:36 PM

bigj91 said:

GPU: HD 5670 $99(15%)

why on earth are you getting a gfx card when it is just a server? you won't even have a monitor with it after all

so there you go, another easy hundred dollars saved :) 
!