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Watercooling virgin buying first loop.

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July 16, 2012 12:12:35 AM

I have long wanted to water cool my PC now, I have decided to finally do it. I have read all the stickies several times and will be reading them again.


I am looking to water cool my 2500k and a 690. I will be overclocking and my setup must be quiet. I am in a fractal arc mini case, which is M-ATX. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&prod=59

I am looking to fit this rad in the top http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8522/ex-rad-145/XSPC_...
This is were I have my first problem. The case is designed to support a dual rad in the top. The website says it supports rads of up to 70mm with certain cpu blocks. I don't know if they included the fans in that measurement but I will assume they didn't just to be safe. So with 25mm fans I would be at 83.5. My ram shouldn't be a problem I am getting low profile vengeance soon. The cpu block I am not sure about, is there a certain Cpu block that is made for tight fits like this? And if I have to, would it be better to use slim fans or a slim rad.
As for the other rads I am looking to put a 120mm in the bottom, bought a smaller PSU just so one would fit. And a 120mm in the front, possibly double thick, possibly push/pull.

for the GPU originally planned to use an aftermarket block but then I saw this hydro copper http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=04G-P4-269... What are the pros and cons to these options?

The res and the pump is still something I am debating. I was originally going to get one of these. http://shop.xs-pc.com/xsp/XSPC-Acrylic-Dual-525-Reservo...
But what about a single bay res? Can you still put a pump in one of those? If not that's fine but I have filled any open space in the case with rads, so the only place I can think of to put it is on my PSU which will be a tight fit with my sound card above it. Will a MCP355 DDC 18w be power full enough for this setup?\

The biggest things I would like to know are:
1. Is that pump powerful enough?
2. What are the pros/cons of a single vs dual bay res?
3. Is there a particular CPU block I should be looking at?
4. If it comes down to it, Slim fans or slim rad?

If you have read this far, thank you. I know this is kinda lengthy, and I cover a lots of topics, but I am new to this subject and also have a more difficult case to deal with than normal.
a c 328 K Overclocking
July 16, 2012 12:30:25 AM

Quote:
The biggest things I would like to know are:
1. Is that pump powerful enough?
2. What are the pros/cons of a single vs dual bay res?
3. Is there a particular CPU block I should be looking at?
4. If it comes down to it, Slim fans or slim rad?


1. Yes, it's an excellent pump with great flow and excellent head pressure
2. A reservoir simply holds water...nothing different except holding different volumes...doesn't impact cooling potential. If you get a reservoir/pump combo, I strongly suggest a DDC or D5 for this, but also make sure you have the pump that fits. (DDC = MCP355, D5=MCP655)
3. You can use any CPU block you like as long as it has the socket mount support for your setup. Other than that, it's mainly preference.
4. Slim fans and thick rad would be my choice. Most thick rads are low FPI anyway, so slim fans that might not be the strongest would still work well. However, you can also consider that thinner rads and normal 25mm fans might allow you to run faster fans and dissipate more heat if you run a higher FPI rad.
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a b K Overclocking
July 16, 2012 12:06:01 PM

In your case, I would definitely go with a bayres - you'll save a bunch of space that you don't really have to work with ;)  I don't believe the single bayres's will actually hold a pump in it, so you would still have to mount the pump elsewhere in the case.

In your case with the CPU block, I would recommend getting some 45-degree fittings if space is going to be an issue - it will make the bends easier and won't kink the tubing.

Another choice for radiators is the EX240 - it's thinner, still low FPI, and performs pretty well compared to the RX240 (though I believe not as good, simply due to the difference in thickness). I think it may end up fitting better though.
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July 23, 2012 2:26:08 AM

So I have been thinking this over the last week and I have started to get some pretty crazy ideas. I wanted to finish thinking them through before I posted here, sorry about the delayed response.

The idea of an external radiator was suggested to me before, but i want a compact, portable system, so I decided that wasn't for me. But I got to thinking what if I could make a modular setup where I can have an external rad for and a portable system.

Ok so here is my idea, it might be kinda hard to explain without pictures but I will try. Instead of having 1 quick connect fitting on each hose I can have 2 for each hose one for next to the radiator and one for next to the case. By doing this I can either have a 4 feet of hose or 4 inches of hose. When I have the 4 feet of hose I will have the rad next to a window or AC unit. When I have 4 inches of hose I can have the ext rad attach to the right side panel.

On top of all of this I want to mod a side window on the left panel.

I hope that was easy enough to understand. I can draw up some crude pictures if I have too.

So this idea brings up new issues. The first is the pump I've read that vertical change causes something like a half a pound of PSI for 1 foot of vertical height. So I think I will just get the D5 so I have headroom for this.

The biggest thing for me is figuring out the rad and fans. I am trying to decide between a 9x 120 like http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11760/ex-rad-123/Phob...
or a 4x 220mm like http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14240/ex-rad-293/Phob....

Theoretically bigger fans =more air at lower noise. However it is quite difficult to find a good super sized fan because they are kinda a niche category.
These are the large fans that seem to be the winner right now http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
According to newegg 110CFM at 19 DBA. But I am trying to find some independent tests to verify this. The Gentle typhoon moves 61CFM at 28.6 DBA according to bit-tech.

The larger fans would cost about 80 bucks and to get 9 gentle typhoons it would cost about 165. So obviously that is a big advantage but I would like to have a better understanding of what I am loosing by going this route.

So my main questions are:
1. Which rad/fan setup would provide best ratio of money/noise/performance?
2. Any recommendations for super sized fans 1800mm/200mm/220mm?
3. Will the ext rad need a rad box? Will a large mesh fan guard suffice?
4. Pump?
5. Any suggestions for how to attach rad to side panel?
6. Anything else I am missing?

I went from complicated to very complicated haha, but If I can get these to work out then I have have the best of all worlds without compromising.

Cheers!
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a b K Overclocking
July 23, 2012 4:15:40 AM

Going for the big rads, eh? :D 

The one issue with the bigger fans is that they generally don't have high enough static pressure to really be good fans, even though they have high CFM/RPMs (think cars: RPM is HP, pressure is torque; HP will get you going fast but when you hit rough terrain the torque gets you through it).

You also don't necessarily have to go with Gentle Typhoons. There are many fans listed in the lineups here and on other sites, and you can probably find a good combination if you decide to go with the larger rads.

I think the Quick Disconnects from Koolance with do the job nicely. I owned two pairs and they were superb fittings,and never let out a drop when disconnected. Keep in mind they are about 2.5 inches long when connected.

You don't ever need a radbox, but most people do it to keep things clean and easier to mount. On frozenCPU there are actually feet for the Phobya rad so you can stand it up without having to mount it on anything. Might make your life easier.

I would definitely go with the MCP35X over the D5/MCP655 since the 35X provides more pressure. You can always used two pumps in a serial configuration to maintain pressure and flowrate over a longer loop, but I doubt that your loop will be any longer or more restrictive than most people's internal loops.

I will probably get back to this tomorrow as I'm about to go to sleep.
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July 23, 2012 4:58:14 AM

boiler1990 said:
Going for the big rads, eh? :D 

The one issue with the bigger fans is that they generally don't have high enough static pressure to really be good fans, even though they have high CFM/RPMs (think cars: RPM is HP, pressure is torque; HP will get you going fast but when you hit rough terrain the torque gets you through it).

You also don't necessarily have to go with Gentle Typhoons. There are many fans listed in the lineups here and on other sites, and you can probably find a good combination if you decide to go with the larger rads.

I think the Quick Disconnects from Koolance with do the job nicely. I owned two pairs and they were superb fittings,and never let out a drop when disconnected. Keep in mind they are about 2.5 inches long when connected.

You don't ever need a radbox, but most people do it to keep things clean and easier to mount. On frozenCPU there are actually feet for the Phobya rad so you can stand it up without having to mount it on anything. Might make your life easier.

I would definitely go with the MCP35X over the D5/MCP655 since the 35X provides more pressure. You can always used two pumps in a serial configuration to maintain pressure and flow rate over a longer loop, but I doubt that your loop will be any longer or more restrictive than most people's internal loops.

I will probably get back to this tomorrow as I'm about to go to sleep.

Thanks for the quick reply!
Static pressure that was one of the big things I am in the dark about I just forgot to ask about it. Your explanation was good but I'll be looking into it myself as well.
Is static pressure important with low FPI rads?

I was using the gentle typhoons as an example because they seem to be the go to fan for people that require quiet. The other ones that I have read are good are called "be quiet" although I think that might be the brand that makes them. If I gotta go with 120mms then I might just get a 720 rad, to save money on fans.

Good thing you mentioned how long those fittings are that could affect how I plan this out.
I figured the rad box was just optional was thinking I could just drill some sort of bracket on the window sill to hold it in place while it is there.

This is the pump you are talking about?
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmc12vdcpu1.html

New questions
1. 6x120mm vs 9x120mm?
2. Should I put a fan or two in the case for cooling my mobo/HDD?
3. How do people deal with powering the fans?
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Best solution

a b K Overclocking
July 23, 2012 12:19:22 PM

Static pressure isn't as much of an issue with low FPI rads as long as you're getting good CFMs (60+). There are many fans that can push 60 CFM, so shop around; BeQuiet is the correct brand name I believe, and you have options with Cougar, Yate Loon, Scythe, etc. You don't necessarily need gentle typhoons. Right now I'm running Scythe Ultra Kaze fans with a fan controller, and they probably work about the same as AP-15s.

Quote:
This is the pump you are talking about?
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmc12vdcpu1.html

Yes, and it's also a DDC pump, not a D5, so that will affect your reservoir choice if you go with a bayres.

Quote:
1. 6x120mm vs 9x120mm?

As for 6x120 vs 9x120, I think you'll have to look up reviews and make sure that these rads can dissipate the heat you're looking at with a 2500K + GTX 690

Quote:
2. Should I put a fan or two in the case for cooling my mobo/HDD?

You should still have some normal circulation in your case to make sure that the rest of the stuff is cooled. Usually a fan in the front and a fan in the rear will work well.

Quote:
3. How do people deal with powering the fans?

I think you'll need some fan extenders, and you could also plug them into a controller if you so choose. Cable management will be a bit tricky ;) 
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July 24, 2012 4:28:09 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcaYMcmSMw4
This is what I was thinking of when I said mount it to the side. Skip to 1:20

I cannot find the static pressure for the mega flows. But I did find the FPI for the 1260 rad. There are 5 fins per centimeter which is almost 13 FPI. That is low FPI right? Would running Push/pull help with static pressure?

Whats the difference between DDC and D5? Could you link the pump you are recommending?

Finding review for the 1260 rad proved impossible. I checked Skinnelabs but was disappointed with the small variety of reviews.

I don't think I will go with a bay res now that I have the room on internally to go with a normal top mounted rad. That leaves me room for a fan controller.

Is the side mounted rad a common mod do you know how it is done?

There are so many different options! I spend every minute of my day thinking about this, Haha. Reminds me of when I first got interested in building my first comp.

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a b K Overclocking
July 24, 2012 12:37:28 PM

Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcaYMcmSMw4
This is what I was thinking of when I said mount it to the side. Skip to 1:20

Unfortunately I can't watch videos at work (terrible internet connection) but I assume you just mean bolted to the side of the case.

I was suggesting the attachable feet in the even the rad would be in a confined space with little airflow. That way you could run the rad out to somewhere more open (in front of an A/C vent, maybe ? :D )

Quote:
I cannot find the static pressure for the mega flows. But I did find the FPI for the 1260 rad. There are 5 fins per centimeter which is almost 13 FPI. That is low FPI right? Would running Push/pull help with static pressure?

13 FPI is sorta in the middle. Most 'low' FPI rads are around 7-10, and 'high' FPI rads are near the 20+s.

Push-pull will pretty much always drop temps, but generally there is a cost or practicality issue preventing it.

Quote:
Whats the difference between DDC and D5? Could you link the pump you are recommending?

DDC and D5 are the different pump form factors.

DDC pumps like the Swiftech MCP3xx series generally produce a lot more pressure, which is very useful in restrictive loops with many/older waterblocks.

D5 pumps like the Swiftech MCP655 generally have very high flowrates, but generate less pressure, making them ideal for less restrictive loops.

In terms of specs, the MCP655 and MCP35X are very similar in flowrate and pressure, so you can't really go wrong even if you base the decision on price.

Quote:
Finding review for the 1260 rad proved impossible. I checked Skinnelabs but was disappointed with the small variety of reviews.

It seems like SkinneeLabs took down some reviews - I remember many more reviews being online there even as early as a few months ago. I guess you'll have to do the reviewing for us ;) 

Quote:
Is the side mounted rad a common mod do you know how it is done?

I think rubix_1011 posted something in one of my threads; basically a diagram of how it should be mounted. I'll try and find it later.

Quote:
There are so many different options! I spend every minute of my day thinking about this, Haha. Reminds me of when I first got interested in building my first comp.

My girlfriend hates this about me... :D 
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a c 328 K Overclocking
July 24, 2012 3:18:08 PM

Quote:
hink rubix_1011 posted something in one of my threads; basically a diagram of how it should be mounted. I'll try and find it later


You mean this?

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a b K Overclocking
July 24, 2012 6:39:48 PM

Yes, I believe it was that one.
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July 25, 2012 4:08:36 AM

I would love to see the thread that diagram is posted on, that is exactly what I wanted to do.

Thanks for being so helpful!

Some new thoughts.
The turn for the tubing to go out the back and around the corner to the right side panel is tight I am concerned about kinking. how good is that stuff that you put around the tube at preventing this?
Is there an additive for anti-corosion?
I just watched a do and don't s videos and the guy recommended premixed coolant because it has anti corrosion. I'll killcoils for algae but I don't trust those premixed deals yet. Plus I will only be using this water and probably the tubing as well for about 3 months before I am moving.

one kill coil or two? damn those things are expensive!
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a b K Overclocking
July 25, 2012 12:21:45 PM

If you have solid tubing, you should be ok with regard to kinking. Otherwise, you could use different style fittings to help prevent this (45 or 90 degree). I'm not sure about the anti-kink coils.

Corrosion isn't an issue unless you're using mixed metals (specifically copper/nickel and aluminum) or products known to cause significant corrosion. I wouldn't bother with the premix. You don't need to disassemble the entire loop when you move - your tubing will last a good long time, and you can just drain the loop for safety in the move.

You only need one killcoil, and it should last you a while.
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July 26, 2012 2:42:59 AM

Ok so I have narrowed my choice of rad down to the mora 3 pro or the Phobya extreme
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12294/ex-rad-197/Wate...
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11760/ex-rad-123/Phob...

The phoyba has very low FPI, I think it is five so I was convinced about it until I say the Mo-ra 3 which is apparently better performing. It is thicker so it is not surprising. I can not find the FPI or a review of this anywhere. All I found out was that it uses round tubes instead of flat tubes, which adds extra resistance. I want the best performance money is not a objective on the rad, because I will likely reuse it over and over.
With the Phobya I watched a 45 min review that did some testing, and The 180mm fan was a little less performing but was much quieter, cheaper and had less cables.
So I am convinced on the 180mm fans. And I settled on the silverstone air penetrator. I really wanted LED's but performance won this decision. Does this "air channeling grille" essentially a shroud?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Thanks again I am very close to being able to pull the trigger on these parts!
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July 29, 2012 2:47:36 AM

Best answer selected by monkeymonk.
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July 29, 2012 2:49:14 AM

I think I am going to make a seperate thread for the radiator. Choosing between the Phoyba and the mo-ra 3 is basically the last big decision i have to make.
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