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NVidia needs to lower prices?

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January 1, 2010 2:49:32 AM

I think nVidia will need to lower their prices! i compared their best video card,GTX295 with the Radeon,48xx and above,and the difference is tremendous! :o  i was amazed when i saw the difference between the 59xx series and the GTX295, one's got about 480 processing cores and the other one 3200.what the...?i am so thinking in selling my brand new 9600gt and get something like the 48xx series?
LOL

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January 1, 2010 2:53:05 AM

You have much to learn young one!
January 1, 2010 2:56:24 AM

I think nvidia would be hemorrhaging money if they lowered their prices at this point in time (low yield 40nm process). Prices probably won't budge much until fermi unfortunately.
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a b U Graphics card
January 1, 2010 4:26:23 AM

well don't expect prices to drop, they really aren't making any more G200(b) chips for production so there is low supply

even when fermi comes out you may not see much of a price drop since it will more than likely be low quantity (unless 40nm yields get way better)
a b U Graphics card
January 1, 2010 5:35:56 AM

OK, their respective arches are different, meaning you cant make a simple shader comparison for example

The cards the OP was talking about are on the 55nm process


The 40nm process has picked up, and certainly by the time Fermi comes, therell be decent production for all, tho therell be alot fewer buyers for such cards
a b U Graphics card
January 1, 2010 8:02:42 AM

Demand and Supply. Supply and Demand. Either way, those two things are what set prices. When most gamers start drifting to ATI to get better value, Nvidia prices will drop to remain competitive. Across the board from low-end to high-end, I believe ATI has the edge now in terms of value.

For the OP, I couldn't tell from your configuration which CPU you have.
You are running an Intel 950 @ 3.5 Ghz? Don't know how or even why that could be. My point is, an HD 4890 might be too powerful for your system and your CPU may bottleneck that GPU.
January 1, 2010 1:49:01 PM

I'm not sure supply and demand really come into play when your competitor has produced a product that outclasses yours at a lower manufacturing cost. It appears that Nvidia is just going to hold the line in terms of prices and hope that brand loyalty keeps their cards selling for now... $400+ for a 285 GTX when a 5870 is the same price?!? No thanks... I'll pass. Due to the 5000 series, Nvidia can't (fully) compete on a performance basis... and due to manufacturing costs can't really compete on a price basis. They're in a tough spot no doubt, but good lord has their stock price gone up lately! Weird how that works.
January 1, 2010 2:17:21 PM

hundredislandsboy said:
Demand and Supply. Supply and Demand. Either way, those two things are what set prices. When most gamers start drifting to ATI to get better value, Nvidia prices will drop to remain competitive. Across the board from low-end to high-end, I believe ATI has the edge now in terms of value.

For the OP, I couldn't tell from your configuration which CPU you have.
You are running an Intel 950 @ 3.5 Ghz? Don't know how or even why that could be. My point is, an HD 4890 might be too powerful for your system and your CPU may bottleneck that GPU.

What i'm saying is,ATI is taking over,and i dont see really big changes on the nvidia cards.they can't be selling those cards while ATI'older cards are even better.Yes, i have much more to learn,i want to know more more and more i just can't learn it all @ once.but i got the drift.
yes,at 3.5 only 3% o.c.manually(it's a 3.4). i had it running at 3.7 but i like to watch my temps.
i would like to know more about the bottlenecks,as you are saying it might be too powerfull for my sys.
Not just now but i'm taking my time with my next build.so prob i'll wait for that.this baby runs well.
a b U Graphics card
January 1, 2010 2:18:47 PM

the pentium d 950 was okish back in the day but these days its bout average
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 1, 2010 2:29:54 PM

I'd just keep the 9600GT. It's pretty appropriate for your processor and unfortunately that's about the best you can use with your motherboard.
January 1, 2010 2:32:24 PM

rodney_ws said:
You have much to learn young one!

LOL Obi Wan Kenobi
a b U Graphics card
January 1, 2010 2:33:54 PM

noob you are young one
a b U Graphics card
January 1, 2010 3:26:31 PM

So it's a Pentium D950. I thought you were referring to Intel 950 which is a graphics chipset. Then for sure, a 4850 or 4870 would be not a good balance for your system because it would be waiting all the time to be fed by your now slow CPU.

Don't worry about prices. They all come down on a regular basis. I'm waiting for the HD 5000 series to drop about 20% to 25% probably in 4 to 6 months and then I'm going with ATI.
a b U Graphics card
January 1, 2010 11:39:15 PM

Stocks could be high because of sellout, being bought up by someone else, but thats a rumor Im not too keen on.
To me, whats really bad is, theres been no rumored perf leaks. This is really bad, as it means at least 1 of 2 things, if not both.
Its either soo far off, they cant make any solid proofs, and are still trying to hit iotimum clocks/perf, or they simply are farther behind than theyre letting on, and the A3 spin isnt ready yet.
Each day they delay release, more sales end up in ATIs lap. If the scaling down isnt any better on the 3xx series than the 2xx series, theyre in for a world of hurt. Thats where theyll really be hurt, as this is where the real monies made.
Even after the 2900 came along, an early 3xxx series arrived, having same perf, but on a much smaller chip, thus at least keeping cost/perf/pricing within reason, where nVidia cant do this, and their lower chips thus far have been of the G92 variety, which simply cant compete, and dont have near the feature set that the 5xxx series does, as well as price/perf/density
January 2, 2010 1:01:50 AM

Nvidia is still bigger in my country compared to ATI, starting with the 4xxx series ATI started gaining a bit more of the marketshare but Nvidia still probably outsells ATI due to customers just buying anything that's Nvidia and ignoring ATI which probably gives them better performance for your money.
a b U Graphics card
January 2, 2010 5:32:32 AM

gomi said:
Nvidia is still bigger in my country compared to ATI, starting with the 4xxx series ATI started gaining a bit more of the marketshare but Nvidia still probably outsells ATI due to customers just buying anything that's Nvidia and ignoring ATI which probably gives them better performance for your money.


Give it time. Computers builder are savvy enough to figure out good value when they see it and soon Nvidia can't sell on their name alone. It's true that ATI's reputation for performance and quality was not on the same level as Nvidia but that was more than a few years ago. Don't you remember a year ago when Nvidia had to spend hundreds of millions to recall and fix certain GPU chipsets that were failing within weeks or months of the purchase date?
January 2, 2010 6:00:12 AM

Nvidia cut it's supply so it can lower demand and keep prices high, nvidia doesn't like its older gen big powerful cards they don't make a lot of money on that the G92 G94 is a winning cpu that milk cuz they can make that for pennies and sell big time. The low end gpus and oem deals is there they make the money. Their bigger cards for years have been more of a show of power then something they want to sell as their profit margins should be quite thin on those.

Nvidia should lower prices for the sake of price/performance but is it necessary for them to be profitable not really.
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 2, 2010 11:29:50 AM

hundredislandsboy said:
Give it time. Computers builder are savvy enough to figure out good value when they see it and soon Nvidia can't sell on their name alone.

I wouldn't be so sure. In the pre-C2D era AMD was a better deal than Intel for quite a long time. While AMD certainly picked up market share they didn't come anywhere near beating Intel.
a b U Graphics card
January 2, 2010 1:23:48 PM

I thought we were talking about GPUs and not CPUs?
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 2, 2010 3:52:48 PM

Well duh. The situations are obviously similar however unless you are suggesting brand loyalty in the two markets is different for some reason.
January 2, 2010 3:55:34 PM

I think enybody sees the point,who will spend 300$-400$ on a nvidia card if you can have an ATI gddr5 card with amazing clock-memory speeds,it's not a deal for nvidia,not competitive, :heink: 
a b U Graphics card
January 2, 2010 5:46:26 PM

jyjjy said:
Well duh. The situations are obviously similar however unless you are suggesting brand loyalty in the two markets is different for some reason.


Brand loyalty is similar with HD and Nvidia fanboys but AMD versus Intel in the CPU competition is not the same in that Intel has existed as a monopoly (yes I said, check the fines against them in Europe) and AMD basically just got here. Intel was what making CPUs since 1908? Just kidding, but really Intel has the advantage and brand loyalty and AMD has to work harder than Intel to capture more of the market where Nvidia and ATI are on a bit more of a level playing field (not totally level but more level than Intel/AMD anyway. So you're "Well duh" deserves a "Well dud" for your lame reply.
a b U Graphics card
January 2, 2010 6:36:54 PM

The situation isnt similar at all, since I havnt seen Korea, Japan, the EU the FTC and the state of New York going after nVidia for spending billiions of dollars to prevent OEMs from buying ATI parts.
Name brand familiarity takes more time, and currently ATI is building it quite well
a b U Graphics card
January 2, 2010 6:45:40 PM

Nvidia probably won't lower prices because:

1. The GTX200 series cost way too much to make (probably due to the 448 bus width? and they didn't salvage partially defective wafers like ATI did)

2. People will continue to buy GTX200 cards out of ignorance of ATI's newest cards, or they prefer Nvidia.
a b U Graphics card
January 2, 2010 7:00:05 PM

Bluescreendeath said:
Nvidia probably won't lower prices because:

1. The GTX200 series cost way too much to make (probably due to the 448 bus width? and they didn't salvage partially defective wafers like ATI did)

2. People will continue to buy GTX200 cards out of ignorance of ATI's newest cards, or they prefer Nvidia.


Don't know anything about Nvidia's profit margin for their venture to make the GTX200 series cards but I do agree about your point No. 2.

My last purchase of a videocard was about 9 months ago, a GTX 260. Prior to that a GTS 250, an 8800 GTS 512, a pair of 9800 GTs, an 8800 GT 320 mb, an 8600 GTS, an 8500 GT, and a 4600 Ti. BUT! my next purchases will all be ATI for the value. And because I sold my NVDA stock and am going with AMD! Check the charts for yourself!
January 3, 2010 12:06:16 AM

he,it's funny but a study says that nvidia drivers produces more BSOD's than the ATI ones.
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 3, 2010 1:47:37 AM

hundredislandsboy said:
Brand loyalty is similar with HD and Nvidia fanboys but AMD versus Intel in the CPU competition is not the same in that Intel has existed as a monopoly (yes I said, check the fines against them in Europe) and AMD basically just got here. Intel was what making CPUs since 1908? Just kidding, but really Intel has the advantage and brand loyalty and AMD has to work harder than Intel to capture more of the market where Nvidia and ATI are on a bit more of a level playing field (not totally level but more level than Intel/AMD anyway. So you're "Well duh" deserves a "Well dud" for your lame reply.

I stand by my well duh. It's called an analogy, people use them all the time and they are obviously similar situations. A computer component market with 2 competing brands, one with much larger market share, the other with a superior product. To just dismiss it as "where were talking about GPUs not CPUs" is the "lame" part and was uncalled for. In fact the latest steam survey shows the respective market shares of Intel vs AMD and Nvidia vs ATI to be nearly identical at this point, at least among gamers;
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
The comparison isn't perfect but no analogy ever is. All I'm saying is that everyone in the "ZOMG Nvidia is going to go out of business because ATI is soooo much better lulz" mindset needs to get a grip. Nvidia has a HUGE market advantage and markets simply do not change that quickly. The CPU market is an obvious recent example of that. Nvidia will do fine and despite an inferior product they are likely to keep their market advantage over ATI for a while. Thoughts to the contrary are wishful thinking.
a b U Graphics card
January 3, 2010 2:01:40 AM

Some points are tho, that ATI coninues to have gains, now 2 gens in a row, and is even stronger this gen than last, as their mid/low will be more competive in perf, and pricing/costs are possibly cheaper for ATI.

That HUGE advantage took a 16% hit in mobile, and a 4% overall, and if it continues, there is a certain momentum that gets created, and is hard to slow, just as it is to gain any marketshare from a leader, or better known product, regardless of perf.

So, if this trend continues, we will have noobies coming here and asking just who is this nVidia , are they any good? Granted this takes time, but, for every % gained, 1 is lost to the other side

Look at it this way, having 40% and gaining just 4% is actually 10% more for that companies output, and 6.6% loss for the other
a b U Graphics card
January 3, 2010 2:10:42 AM

jyjjy said:
I stand by my well duh. It's called an analogy, people use them all the time and they are obviously similar situations. A computer component market with 2 competing brands, one with much larger market share, the other with a superior product. To just dismiss it as "where were talking about GPUs not CPUs" is the "lame" part and was uncalled for. In fact the latest steam survey shows the respective market shares of Intel vs AMD and Nvidia vs ATI to be nearly identical at this point, at least among gamers;
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
The comparison isn't perfect but no analogy ever is. All I'm saying is that everyone in the "ZOMG Nvidia is going to go out of business because ATI is soooo much better lulz" mindset needs to get a grip. Nvidia has a HUGE market advantage and markets simply do not change that quickly. The CPU market is an obvious recent example of that. Nvidia will do fine and despite an inferior product they are likely to keep their market advantage over ATI for a while. Thoughts to the contrary are wishful thinking.



Sorry. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. It must have been a Freudian slip and I meant to say "flame" reply because obviously youre a HUGE Nvidia fanboy and you will refuse to listen to reason, you will deny sound evidence that ATI are better value GPUs. You're own statement contradicts itself:

You: " Nvidia will do fine and despite an inferior product they are likely to keep their market advantage over ATI for a while. Thoughts to the contrary are wishful thinking. "

In this tight economy you can't compete with inferior products and the result will be lost market share. Where have you been? Have you not heard of GM and the banks who lost billions go under? Did their customers follow them blindly? You, sir, are the one doing the wishful thinking with your Nvidia fanboy fantasies.



a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 3, 2010 2:12:04 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Some points are tho, that ATI coninues to have gains, now 2 gens in a row, and is even stronger this gen than last, as their mid/low will be more competive in perf, and pricing/costs are possibly cheaper for ATI.

That HUGE advantage took a 16% hit in mobile, and a 4% overall, and if it continues, there is a certain momentum that gets created, and is hard to slow, just as it is to gain any marketshare from a leader, or better known product, regardless of perf.

So, if this trend continues, we will have noobies coming here and asking just who is this nVidia , are they any good? Granted this takes time, but, for every % gained, 1 is lost to the other side

Look at it this way, having 40% and gaining just 4% is actually 10% more for that companies output, and 6.6% loss for the other

Yeah, the market share will definitely erode but it will be a slow process. An interesting thing to note on that chart is how high AMD's market share still is despite that until they released the Phenom IIs Intel was frankly spanking them in all segments for the last few years.
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 3, 2010 2:17:02 AM

hundredislandsboy said:
Sorry. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings. It must have been a Freudian slip and I meant to say "flame" reply because obviously youre a HUGE Nvidia fanboy and you will refuse to listen to reason, you will deny sound evidence that ATI are better value GPUs. You're own statement contradicts itself:

You: " Nvidia will do fine and despite an inferior product they are likely to keep their market advantage over ATI for a while. Thoughts to the contrary are wishful thinking. "

In this tight economy you can't compete with inferior products and the result will be lost market share. Where have you been? Have you not heard of GM and the banks who lost billions go under? Did their customers follow them blindly? You, sir, are the one doing the wishful thinking with your Nvidia fanboy fantasies.

LOL
Nice try. Why don't you check my hundreds of posts recommending the new ATI cards on here. Or if you like I'll even dig up a few threads of Nvidia fanboys attacking me for suggesting that Physx simply isn't that important and buying an Nvidia card for it is a mistake. I'm not a fanboy, there's no fantasy in what I'm suggesting simply a measured take on Nvidia's current market entrenchment. If this offends you I'm sorry.
a b U Graphics card
January 3, 2010 2:29:30 AM

For the cpus, the bleeding hasnt stopped, but slowed measurably, theyre lucky to have a decent fanbase, but this cant be used as normal, as Intel kept them out of the OEM market with their activities, and thus isnt a mormal situation
a b U Graphics card
January 3, 2010 3:00:52 AM

jyjjy said:
LOL
Nice try. Why don't you check my hundreds of posts recommending the new ATI cards on here. Or if you like I'll even dig up a few threads of Nvidia fanboys attacking me for suggesting that Physx simply isn't that important and buying an Nvidia card for it is a mistake. I'm not a fanboy, there's no fantasy in what I'm suggesting simply a measured take on Nvidia's current market entrenchment. If this offends you I'm sorry.


Well, I'm glad you are humored and you get the hint it's just satire. We're both saying the same thing basically then and I retract my accusation that you're an Nvidia fanboy. All is well again.
!