I7 930 Potential, i7 930 vs i7 860

[emeraldyautja]

I have some questions about the i7 930 and socket LGA1366 in general. *** I should point out my primary concern is gaming performance, and in general when I am comparing products, it is in terms of gaming performance. ***

Most people's opinions appear to be that the i7 860 is faster and, since it is around the same price, a better choice than the i7 930. Also considering that the motherboard and RAM for the i7 860 (or socket LGA1156 in general really) are likely to be cheaper, it only adds to that choice being the better.
Based on that I want to get the i7 860, however I am not convinced it is actually the better choice.
* I have full price comparisons in the post after this one (I separated them to avoid a wall of text)*

My question is then to the advantages of the i7 930. I also want to look at the potential of the i7 930. To this end I have some issue to clear up:

Issue 1) Part of my problem is I cannot find a benchmark for the life of me that has both the i7 930 and the i7 860 in it. I have spend about an hour looking with various search terms. What I do find is many benchmarks with the i7 860 and the i7 920. Do any of you have one you can link?

Issue 2) I see a lot of people saying that i7 860 is faster at lower resolutions, but at higher resolutions the i7 930 wins. (1920 x 1200 is the resolution I prefer to game at) I do have some benchmarks where an i7 920 is often beating an i7 870 at higher resolutions, which seems to confirm this, but other benchmarks do not agree:
a) PC Perspective Review of i7 860 Notes: You will see that in every test they did, as the resolution increased the performance of the i7 920 outperformed even the i7 870.
b) Overclockers Club i5 750 and i7 870 review Notes: The page I linked and the next 8 pages show gaming related benchmarks, and they tell a different story. In half the tests (namely FarCry 2, Fallout 3, Left 4 Dead, and 3D Mark Vantage) the i7 920 does better, and half the tests (namely Bioshock, Call of Duty World at War, Deadspace, and 3D Mark 06) the i7 860 does better, also in Crysis Warhead they both do exactly the same. However they are very very close. *Both these reviews are from the middle of September 09.

However these compare the i7 920 vs the i7 870, when really I want to see the i7 930 vs. the i7 860 (Although the i7 860 is also present in the first review).

Issue 3) Some have been saying that the i7 930 overclocks better, and that at higher clock speeds the i7 930 beats the i7 860 when at the same higher clock speeds.
Any merit to this? Perhaps someone has some link they can show that backs this up.

Issue 4) I have also been hearing that due to multi cpu performance enhancements of DirectX 11, the i7 930 (and LGA1366 in general) gains a bigger advantage, however I have not found data showing that either.
Is this true? Perhaps someone has a link they can share?

I will continue looking for answers to these questions and post them here if I find any, however I wanted to see if one or more of you knowledgeable people on the Tom's Hardware forums could share any insight as well.

Thank you very much.

 

[emeraldyautja]

*** Pricing Comparison ***

I always buy PC components from NCIX, and currently:

The i7 920 is $324.99
The i7 860 is $354.99

Currently there is a sale on, for both parts, but it will be over before I buy either of them. The thing is, with NCIX, as soon as one sale ends, another begins and will often have the same or similar items at the same or similar prices. Sale:

The i7 920 is $309.99
The i7 860 is $325.99

I figured for LGA1366, the ASUS P6TD Deluxe X58 was the best bang for the buck, and so was OCZ Platinum OCZ3P1600LV6GK 6GB DDR3 3X2GB

ASUS P6TD Deluxe X58 = $334.99
OCZ Platinum OCZ3P1600LV6GK 6GB DDR3 3X2GB = $216.57

And, to be honest I hadn't done as much research into LGA1156, but saw many motherboards between $150 and $300 that seemed comparable (there as so many more choices for LGA1156) a couple RAM choices at DD3-1600 and CL 8-8-8-24 for around $140.

Maybe someone can suggest some good motherboards and RAM for LGA1156 (note I have always bought ASUS mobos, but have lately considered getting EVGA, and I have always gotten OCZ ram).

I am posting these price comparisons, not entirely for myself, but also for anyone else considering these two options. I am not trying to pinch every penny, but I prefer not to be too too wasteful when buying PC components. For example, the difference between the i7 930 and the i7 940, over double the price for less then a few percentage performance gain, doesn't seem at all worth it.

When selecting a motherboard and RAM I would select something in the high end, but not rediculously high end. Around $300 for a motherboard is fine by me (not that I have to spend close to that much if there is no point). I don't do super extreme Overclocking (just a more reasonable amount of overclocking) and the boards over $400 don't seem worth it to me. OCing seems to be thier major selling point, that and bragging rights.


Just wanted to share the info I gathered and point out that the difference in pricing doesn't seem all that great between the two.
Also wanted to get your feedback on this.

Thank you very much.

 

[lordszone]

I have some questions about the i7 930 and socket LGA1366 in general. *** I should point out my primary concern is gaming performance, and in general when I am comparing products, it is in terms of gaming performance. ***

Most people's opinions appear to be that the i7 860 is faster and, since it is around the same price, a better choice than the i7 930. Also considering that the motherboard and RAM for the i7 860 (or socket LGA1156 in general really) are likely to be cheaper, it only adds to that choice being the better.
Based on that I want to get the i7 860, however I am not convinced it is actually the better choice.
* I have full price comparisons in the post after this one (I separated them to avoid a wall of text)*

My question is then to the advantages of the i7 930. I also want to look at the potential of the i7 930. To this end I have some issue to clear up:

Issue 1) Part of my problem is I cannot find a benchmark for the life of me that has both the i7 930 and the i7 860 in it. I have spend about an hour looking with various search terms. What I do find is many benchmarks with the i7 860 and the i7 920. Do any of you have one you can link?

Issue 2) I see a lot of people saying that i7 860 is faster at lower resolutions, but at higher resolutions the i7 930 wins. (1920 x 1200 is the resolution I prefer to game at) I do have some benchmarks where an i7 920 is often beating an i7 870 at higher resolutions, which seems to confirm this, but other benchmarks do not agree:
a) PC Perspective Review of i7 860 Notes: You will see that in every test they did, as the resolution increased the performance of the i7 920 outperformed even the i7 870.
b) Overclockers Club i5 750 and i7 870 review Notes: The page I linked and the next 8 pages show gaming related benchmarks, and they tell a different story. In half the tests (namely FarCry 2, Fallout 3, Left 4 Dead, and 3D Mark Vantage) the i7 920 does better, and half the tests (namely Bioshock, Call of Duty World at War, Deadspace, and 3D Mark 06) the i7 860 does better, also in Crysis Warhead they both do exactly the same. However they are very very close. *Both these reviews are from the middle of September 09.

However these compare the i7 920 vs the i7 870, when really I want to see the i7 930 vs. the i7 860 (Although the i7 860 is also present in the first review).

Issue 3) Some have been saying that the i7 930 overclocks better, and that at higher clock speeds the i7 930 beats the i7 860 when at the same higher clock speeds.
Any merit to this? Perhaps someone has some link they can show that backs this up.

Issue 4) I have also been hearing that due to multi cpu performance enhancements of DirectX 11, the i7 930 (and LGA1366 in general) gains a bigger advantage, however I have not found data showing that either.
Is this true? Perhaps someone has a link they can share?

I will continue looking for answers to these questions and post them here if I find any, however I wanted to see if one or more of you knowledgeable people on the Tom's Hardware forums could share any insight as well.

Thank you very much.

Hi
I dont know which benchmarks u have that prove core i7 920 is better for gaming as compared with core i7 860. first of all if there is a difference between them then it will be minor. it depends on your budget. i personally like the 1366 socket. so if i was u then i would surely go with x58 motherboard. but if u look at the value point then socket 1156 it better. this is because core i7 860 beats core i7 920 easily in majority of the benchmarks and also it beats core i7 975 is few benchmarks, so just imagine. well the final call is yours so rethink everything. but as far i performance is concerned, u wont regret any of the route as both the the processors perform to that point after which no difference can be seen. hope i helped

 

[Bluescreendeath]

Clock per clock, the 1366 i7 is slightly a bit faster than the 1156 i7.

However, the i7 860 has a faster stock clock speed, and faster turbo boost.

At stock, the i7 860 would be faster than the i7 920. Overclocked to the same speed, the i7 920 would be faster.

For RAM, 1156 takes dual channel (pairs) so 4 or 8GB will both be enough. For mobo, try Asus, Gigabyte, MSI or Intel - Asus and Gigabyte are the best IMo, while Intel is pretty solid.

The 1366 i7 920 cpu should be cheaper, while the 1156 motherboards should be cheaper.

If you plan to OC, get the 1366. If not or you're trying to saving money, get the 1156.

 

[blackhawk1928]

emeraldyautja wrote:

Most people's opinions appear to be that the i7 860 is faster and, since it is around the same price, a better choice than the i7 930.

Well I am not sure but the 920 can slightly be slower because it has a 2.66GHz clockrate vs the i7 860's 2.8 but the 930 has 2.8 so therefore it should be the same if not better then the 860.

BTW where do you live because in the United States Newegg would give you much better prices then whichever retailer you are looking right now.

 

[emeraldyautja]

Hi
I dont know which benchmarks u have that prove core i7 920 is better for gaming as compared with core i7 860. first of all if there is a difference between them then it will be minor. it depends on your budget. i personally like the 1366 socket. so if i was u then i would surely go with x58 motherboard. but if u look at the value point then socket 1156 it better. this is because core i7 860 beats core i7 920 easily in majority of the benchmarks and also it beats core i7 975 is few benchmarks, so just imagine. well the final call is yours so rethink everything. but as far i performance is concerned, u wont regret any of the route as both the the processors perform to that point after which no difference can be seen. hope i helped

I have not found any bechmarks that prove one way or the other, but I did link 2 benchamarks in my post one that shows the i7 920 leading, and the other that show them performing at about the same. However I did point out that the difference was very minor between the two products. However there are many benchmarks out there with many results, as I stated in the original post.

I would love to see the benchmarks showing the i7 860 beating the i7 975, that should easily sway me.

You seem to contradict yourself:

first of all if there is a difference between them then it will be minor.

then

this is because core i7 860 beats core i7 920 easily in majority of the benchmarks and also it beats core i7 975 is few benchmarks, so just imagine.

At first you say there is very little difference, then you say the i7 860 is a lot better than the i7 920.


This should perhaps be "Issue 5)" Huge variance from one benchmark to the other.

Some show i7 920 as faster, some show i7 860 as faster, some show them about neck and neck.

Maybe someone can clear this up.

Pehaps newer bechmarks reflect updates and only one of those 3 situations is true.

 

[emeraldyautja]

Clock per clock, the 1366 i7 is slightly a bit faster than the 1156 i7.

However, the i7 860 has a faster stock clock speed, and faster turbo boost.

At stock, the i7 860 would be faster than the i7 920. Overclocked to the same speed, the i7 920 would be faster.

For RAM, 1156 takes dual channel (pairs) so 4 or 8GB will both be enough. For mobo, try Asus, Gigabyte, MSI or Intel - Asus and Gigabyte are the best IMo, while Intel is pretty solid.

The 1366 i7 920 cpu should be cheaper, while the 1156 motherboards should be cheaper.

If you plan to OC, get the 1366. If not or you're trying to saving money, get the 1156.

Bluescreendeath, thanks for directly answering Issue 3) and informing me that the i7 920 performs better when overclocked to the same speed as the i7 860.
I definitly do plan to Overclock.

Do you have a link to some hard data supporting this?

Also I was not asking about the 920 but the 930, I should point out.

 

[emeraldyautja]

emeraldyautja wrote:

Most people's opinions appear to be that the i7 860 is faster and, since it is around the same price, a better choice than the i7 930.

Well I am not sure but the 920 can slightly be slower because it has a 2.66GHz clockrate vs the i7 860's 2.8 but the 930 has 2.8 so therefore it should be the same if not better then the 860.

BTW where do you live because in the United States Newegg would give you much better prices then whichever retailer you are looking right now.

I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.

 

[blackhawk1928]

ooh, because on newegg in U.S has the 920 at 288 and the the 930 at 294.

 

[Raidur]

Listen to bluescreen.

The i7s on 1366 are faster. <---period

This is not due to the CPUs themselves but more the socket. (Tripple channel and higher pci-e bandwidth)

The 1156 i7 870 seems faster (in some occasions, but you'd need a benchmark to actually tell) because of turbo (like bluescreen said) and stock clocks which is eliminated once you overclock.

The 930 is basically a 920 with a slightly higher multiplier. Meaning its stock mhz is a little higher and it will oc a little higher before reaching the mobo's limit.

Tbh if you don't mind the 1156 socket the i5 750 might do you ok if you're mostly gaming. Its basically an i7 with no ht, and ht has yet to help in gaming. (Notice the 'yet')

 

[emeraldyautja]

ooh, because on newegg in U.S has the 920 at 288 and the the 930 at 294.

Thanks for trying to save me money Blackhawk1928. Unfortunately I am not in the U.S.

The prices I listed were in CAD, and the prices you list there are roughly $194 CAD, and $199 CAD at the current exchange rate.
So $15 cheaper for the i7 920, but $26 cheaper for the i7 860. That would be nice.

Interesting to note that the two products are closer in price in the U.S. that here in Canada, atleast NewEgg compared to NCIX.

 

[emeraldyautja]

Listen to bluescreen.

The i7s on 1366 are faster. <---period

This is not due to the CPUs themselves but more the socket. (Tripple channel and higher pci-e bandwidth)

The 1156 i7 870 seems faster (in some occasions, but you'd need a benchmark to actually tell) because of turbo (like bluescreen said) which is eliminated once you overclock.

The 930 is basically a 920 with a slightly higher multiplier. Meaning its stock mhz is a little higher and it will oc a little higher before reaching the mobo's limit.

Thanks, Raidur, you and Bluescreendeath have swung me back over to thinking about getting the i7 930, since I should see better performance from it because I will overclock. Also it might be nice to pop a 6 core in there in a year or two, though I might get a new MB and RAM at that time anyway. From what I am seeing the prices will be similar for me.

However I am still interested to see the answers to my specific questions / "issues"

 

[Raidur]

The reason the 870 wins at lower resolutions is because of the turbo. At a lower resolution the gpu bottleneck is removed, giving the cpu more room to 'take the gpu' to higher frames. This changes at a higher resolution because the gpu is bottlenecking and the faster cpu no longer matters (for example, you cannot tell the difference between a 3.0ghz i7 920 and a 4.0ghz 920 unless the resolution is low enough to release the gpu bottleneck or the gpus are strong enough to produce more frames than the 3.0ghz 920 can handle). This all means nothing after overclocking of course. Oh yeah and the reason the 920 won at the higher res is probably due to the higher pci-e bandwidth. (And maybe the tri channel giving it that extra little push)

The dx11 thing sounds like hogwosh to me. I can see it giving better framerates when compared to the i5 because of ht, but that has nothing to do with 1366 vs 1156.

I believe all of your questions have been answered (let me know if I missed one), I am unable to give you links to benches because I'm (lazy) at work doing all of this from my Droid.

 

[Raidur]

This can all be sumd up to: The 1156 i7 is faster ONLY at stock settings when there is no gpu bottleneck and you aren't surpassing the 8x/8x bandwidth (which you'd have to overclock to run the gpus that reach that anyways).

 

[Bluescreendeath]

Bluescreendeath, thanks for directly answering Issue 3) and informing me that the i7 920 performs better when overclocked to the same speed as the i7 860.
I definitly do plan to Overclock.

Do you have a link to some hard data supporting this?

Also I was not asking about the 920 but the 930, I should point out.

I'm mostly speaking from experience of what I've seen (benchmark charts of overclocked i7 920s or i7 860s)

The Anadtech website has a chart where you can directly compare an i7 920 with a i7 860...but there will be a stock speed difference and a turbo boost difference

 

[JackNaylorPE]

I'd go for the P6X58D ....adds USB 3 and SATA III

$341 @ NCIX Canada http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=46706&vpn=P6X58D%20Premium&manufacture=ASUS
$319 at newegg canada http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131614

As for the 1366 / 1156 argument, here's the issues:

1. future availability of hexacore processors for 1366 based platforms
2. 1366 interface’s ability to support triple-channel memory.
3. the1366's additional support for high-bandwidth devices such as professional RAID controllers
4. the 1366's ability to support multiple x16 PCI-E lanes ..... probably only an issue for higher end ($400 and up) video cards

it's the last one that prolly has the DX11 tie you mentioned, tenuous as it might be. Granted most hi end cards are DX11 now but a pair of DX10 cards in Xfire / SLI (i.e 4870x2 or GTX 295) would be pinched a bit by a PCI-E x8 lane.

memory:

CAS 6 $250 http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226121
CAS 7 $182 http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010170147%201052129233%201052429371%201052345114%201052528354&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&Order=PRICE
CAS 8 $145 http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010170147%201052129233%201052429371%201052345114%201052529367&name=8

 

[blackhawk1928]

Thanks, Raidur, you and Bluescreendeath have swung me back over to thinking about getting the i7 930, since I should see better performance from it because I will overclock. Also it might be nice to pop a 6 core in there in a year or two, though I might get a new MB and RAM at that time anyway. From what I am seeing the prices will be similar for me.

However I am still interested to see the answers to my specific questions / "issues"

Just want to warn you right now, just because the 6-core i9 or i7 980x or whatever they call it, is for the 1366 socket doesn't necessarily mean the motherboards out right now will support it. Maybe it will, but i wouldn't count on it, most likley you'll need to get a i7 980x/i9 supported 1366 motherboard for when it comes out.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

Just want to warn you right now, just because the 6-core i9 or i7 980x or whatever they call it, is for the 1366 socket doesn't necessarily mean the motherboards out right now will support it. Maybe it will, but i wouldn't count on it, most likley you'll need to get a i7 980x/i9 supported 1366 motherboard for when it comes out.

All 1366 motherboards will be able to support the 6-core i7 980x. Some will need a BIOS update, some won't.

 

[Raidur]

Didn't intel say they would drop in most X58 boards? (If not all)

http://www.techfuels.com/latest-hardware-news/26676-asus-compatibility-chart-core-i9.html

 

[Bluescreendeath]

Didn't intel say they would drop in most ix58 boards? (If not all)

http://www.techfuels.com/latest-hardware-news/26676-asus-compatibility-chart-core-i9.html

huh? i9?

 

[logan the huge]

huh? i9?

In the months prior to the i7-980x official announcement, it was rumored that Intel was originally going to brand Gulftown CPUs as "i9-xxx" so that name has kind of stuck around in certain circles.

 

[emeraldyautja]

Thanks a ton to Bluescreendeath, Raidur, and JackNaylorPE. You have all provided great information and solved these issues.

Also thanks expecially to JackNaylorPE for telling me about the ASUS P6X58D Premium motherboard. It is fantastic for only $6 CAD more.

I also checked out NewEgg.ca and made this comparison of the prices of the items I want to get:

New Egg Canada

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional 70SB088600002 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface Sound Card – Retail: $139.99

CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMP6GX3M3A1600C7 – Retail: $275.99

ASUS P6X58D Premium LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard – Retail: $319.99

Intel Core i7-930 2.8GHz LGA 1366 Quad-Core Desktop Processor Model BX80601930 – Retail: $307.99

CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series CWCH50-1 120mm High Performance CPU Cooler – Retail: $67.99

Subtotal: $1,111.95
Shipping: $18.32
GST/HST: $56.52
Grand Total: $1,186.79

NCIX

OCZ Platinum OCZ3P1600LV6GK 6GB DDR3 3X2GB DDR3-1600 PC3-12800 CL 7-7-7-24 Triple Channel Memory Kit: $216.57

Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-FI Titanium FATAL1TY PCI-E 1X 24BIT Sound Card 7.1 Optical IN/OUT: $132.00

Intel Core i7 930 Quad Core Processor LGA1366 2.8GHZ 8MB L3 Cache 130W 45NM OEM: $324.99

Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H50 High Performance CPU Cooler System LGA775 LGA1366 LGA1156 AM2 AM3: $89.99

ASUS P6X58D Premium X58 ATX LGA1366 3PCI-E16 PCI-E1 2PCI CrossFire SLI USB3.0 SATA 6GB/S Motherboard: $340.51

Sub Total: $1,117.85
Shipping: $13.79
Shipping Insurance: $16.56
GST(5%): $56.72
Grand Total: 1,191.13

The price is very similar between the two, about $5 difference, but with NCIX that included shipping insurance (which I could remove if I wanted).

However the issue I have is that the RAM is different. The OCZ ram I have selected is not available on New Egg, and the Corsair ram I have selected is not available on NCIX. New Egg has a poor selection of OCZ triple channel ram, where as NCIX has a good selection of Triple Channel Corsair, however any with a latency of CAS 7 and are DDR3-1600 are all well above $300. The ones I choose are the closest I could find in price and latency.

I choose DDR3-1600 because I plan to Overclock to 4.0 GHz and don't want to have to fiddle with the RAM. Which is why I am wondering if the Corsair would be a better option then, as it is XMP compatible. Last time I Overclocked the ram timings were a pain, however I hadn't gotten ram that was rated for the higher speeds that I took the CPU to, and apparently my motherboard didn't Overclock Q6600 very well. I imagine this time around I will have less pain, even without XMP, so perhaps I might as well save the cash in the long run.

One other thing is the Corsair is 7-8-7-20, while the OCZ is 7-7-7-24. Which, if either, of those timings is faster?

Which do you think is the best option?

 

[blackhawk1928]

All 1366 motherboards will be able to support the 6-core i7 980x. Some will need a BIOS update, some won't.

Really? Well thats good news, I just wanted to be on the cautious side.

 

[emeraldyautja]

Best answer selected by emeraldyautja.

 

[eviljenius]

All specs aside, conceptually here's what I see:

--- The i7-860 is a Lynnfield processor, associated with lower tier i5 processors, but it runs inherently cooler at a lower wattage, 95W.

---The i7-930 is a Bloomfield processor, associated with higher tier i7 processors, but runs inherently hotter at a higher wattage, 135W.

It's kind of like buying a fully loaded mid-sized car vs. buying a base-priced luxury full-size car. I think you get the point and realize it's about style, not just performance.

EvilJenius
jamesjenius@gmail.com