HD 5970 over GTX 295?

[battousaik]

I'm going to build a new gaming system and I considered Quad-SLi GTX 295 + a dedicated PhysX card (GTS 250 512MB), but the new ATI Radeon HD 5970 seems more attractive. Is it worth dropping the PhysX card and the two GTX 295s for the HD 5970 and CrossFireX it later if need be? Is EyeFinity better than PhysX? I never had ATI before and I heard it was unstable in the past.

Other system specs:
• Case: SilverStone Raven RV01B-W Full Tower Case
• Power Supply: Tagan 1300W TG1300-U33 SuperRock
• CPU: Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHz 8 MB cache
• Motherboard: Asus P6T Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel
• Memory: 6GB (3x2GB) PC16000 DDR3/2000mhz Triple Channel Memory
• Hard Drive: 2TB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 32M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive

I'm going to play games like Crysis, Mirror's Edge, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect 2...

 

[Bluescreendeath]

A 5970 is equal to two underclocked GTX295s in QuadSLi.
An overclocked 5970 is equal to two GTX295s in QuadSLi.

A GTX295 is equal to a 5870.


DX11 and eyefinity trumps PhysX. If you really want PhysX, just get a cheap 8x00 or higher series card as a 2nd PhysX card.

 

[battousaik]

I'm going to play games at 1920 x 1080 resolution, but I don't want to upgrade my system again for at least 4 years.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

5970 or 5870 will both outlast the GTX295 by a few years.

1. DX11 support
2. Eyefinity
3. 5870 is single GPU solution equal to the GTX295 which is dual-GPU
4. The 5970 is dual-GPU but more powerful than the GTX295 which is also dual-GPU
5. 5870 uses less energy/runs cooler than a GTX925

The only problem with the 5970 is you need at least a good 750watt PSU, and the card is 13inches long, so you'll need a full-tower case.

 

[rodney_ws]

Either wait (indefinitely) for Fermi, or jump on the AMD/ATI bandwagon. DX11 trumps PhysX... one day EVERYTHING will use DX11... PhysX? Meh... signs point to "no" on that one.

I just can't picture anyone buying a GTX295 at this point. If you have that kind of money to be throwing around, you deserve the best.

 

[gkreymer]

You've waited this long to buy a graphics subsystem. Fermi is just around the corner (nVidia's next gen of graphics cards). Why spend extra $$$ on power hungry, heat producing quad-sli solution, when you may potentially have the same capability in one or two Fermi cards (plus more bells chimes and whistles).

I say wait.... be patient. nVidia is just itching to blow AMD/ATI's 5970 out of the water, just like it did with previous generations.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

First i gotta ask what resolution cause if it's 1920 x 1200 or below, it's overkill except for Crysis. Other than Crysis, either card alone can handle everything out there.

I'm also thinking you're may have trouble plugging in twin double thickness 295's / 5970's and a PhysX card into a MoBo / case.

Here's some comparisons, you will find that some games are skewed toward one platform or another so how things average out or which ones you play will be the primary consideration:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-310-5970,2491-6.html

"GeForce GTX 295 offers very notable gains over a single Radeon HD 5870 in the great majority of game titles"

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews.php?reviewid=885&pageid=12

Crysis Warhead (max / avg / Min fps)

5970 - 60/47/27

295 - 52/34/14

5870 - 44/34/18

Borderlands (max / avg / Min fps)

5970 - 146/99/62

295 - 146/108/50

5870 - 164/87/52

Eyefinity and PhysX are unrelated.....Eyefinity is basically multiple monitors, PhysX is taking the Physics load off the CPU and adding putting it on the GPU. If you wanna see what PhysX does look at this:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/batman_arkham_asylum_physx_performance/page2.asp

You might consider twin 5870's and a dedicated PhysX card ....tho probably best performance obtainable at this point w/ PhysX would be tri SLI w/ 285's and a 4th card for PhysX in this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131390

I'm going to play games at 1920 x 1080 resolution, but I don't want to upgrade my system again for at least 4 years.

At your resolution those big cards and / Crossfire setups seems far more trouble than it's worth.....at your resolution, there's simply nothing to gain.

To Mix ATI and Nvidia BTW gonna need this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-ATI-physx-patch-gpu,8786.html

I'd recommend a single 295 if PhysX is important except for the fact that prices are going up and not down as we should expect. A 5970 and dedicated PhysX card is an option for your budget, as is twin 5870's and a GTX 260 for PhysX which would kill at 2560 x 1600 ......but again, way overkill for no observable gain at 1920 x 1080

as for 4 years between upgrades....not gonna happen. I'd put the money away and upgrade the CPU and GFX right after XMas 2011. DX11 won't be very important at least until then and given the performance hit we see on games like Dirt 2, I don't think current generation cards will do very well with it the big games of that holiday season.

BTW, Power Supply is oversized (850 should be plenty), doubt you'll benefit from DDR 2000 w/ LN cooling and consider an SD with the money saved from not buying quad GFX. The Antec 1200 / CP-850 is hard to beat at $300

Finally I'd look at a MoBo with either SAS or 6 GB/s SATA and USb 3

 

[welshmousepk]

physx is pretty pointelss, a single 5870 will out-perform a a gtx 295 eventually through driver updates (it already does in many games, and others it comes very close)

a 5970 is by far the better option. no point going for an old architecture, when you can get dx11.

 

[battousaik]

OK, if I were to build this system right now¬ how long would it last until I would have to upgrade again?
GRAPHICS: ATI Radeon HD 5970 (possible CrossFireX later)
• Case: SilverStone Raven RV01B-W Full Tower Case
• Power Supply: Tagan 1300W TG1300-U33 SuperRock
• CPU: Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHz 8 MB cache
• Motherboard: Asus P6T Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel
• Memory: 6GB (3x2GB) PC16000 DDR3/2000mhz Triple Channel Memory
• Hard Drive: 2TB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 32M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive

My target is to build a system that will last, dose this mean I have to wait for newer components?

 

[sabot00]

I would get the 5970 & try to step up to a 30in or get 2 extra 24 inchers & setup Eyefinity.

 

[geofelt]

OK, if I were to build this system right now¬ how long would it last until I would have to upgrade again?
GRAPHICS: ATI Radeon HD 5970 (possible CrossFireX later)
• Case: SilverStone Raven RV01B-W Full Tower Case
• Power Supply: Tagan 1300W TG1300-U33 SuperRock
• CPU: Intel Core i7 920 @ 2.66GHz 8 MB cache
• Motherboard: Asus P6T Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard Triple-Channel
• Memory: 6GB (3x2GB) PC16000 DDR3/2000mhz Triple Channel Memory
• Hard Drive: 2TB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 32M Cache 7200RPM Hard Drive

My target is to build a system that will last, dose this mean I have to wait for newer components?

The system will run as well in 4 years as today, but your needs/desires might change. The best cards from 4 years ago are puny by today's standards.
If you will forever game at 1920 x 1200, then the system above will likely do. If you are such an avid gamer, then look at a 2560 x 1600 30" monitor. It is appropriate to go with the rest of the system. In time, you can either upgrade to a second 5970 or, sell the current one and get the next best thing.

Also, a 1300w psu is a waste. AMD requires a 850w psu with two 6-pin and two 8-pin power connectors for dual 5970's.
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-radeon-hd-5000/hd-5970/Pages/ati-radeon-hd-5970-system-requirements.aspx

 

[JackNaylorPE]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-310-5970,2491.html
Looking at the THG December roundup, we see that 13 price category wins go to DX10 cards and only 2 to Dx11 cards. I think that's a pretty strong indication of just how important Dx11 is today.

DX11's impact on Game Experience:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dirt-2-performance-benchmark,2508-11.html
Having said that, should you wait for a DirectX 11 card to play DiRT 2? Decidedly, no. The DirectX 9 code path is so slick and beautiful that it's almost impossible to notice the DirectX 11 enhancements while playing.

PhysX Impact on Game Experience:
However, when PhysX is enabled, it adds superlative nuances and really creates some “wow” moments. The chunky explosions, cloth effects, paper, fog, and environmental detail enhancements are very cool.....that the eye candy is a lot of fun to watch. Once you've turned it on, it's not something you'll turn off if your hardware can handle it.

No doubt, as game devs get to incorporate DX11 features into games, we will see much more from DX11....but we are not there yet. It took over two years to make Batman and most "impact" games hover on the 3 year development cycle. As we move on down the road, I expect DX11 will start to wow us between late summer and XMas 2011 but today's early Dx11 cards just won't have the power to deliver what these games offer. If you buy a DX11 card today, yes it will be able to play XMas 2011's big games ...albeit at reduced resolutions and features turned off. Even in a game like Dirt 2, where the DX11 enhancements are described as a "subtle increase in visual fidelity" the performance hit is describes as "colossal".

If as the OP originally posted, he isn't going to touch the box for 4 years....DX11 cards w/ a dedicated PhysX card for $65 is the way to go. But if, as most of here do, you are going to upgrade again between late summer and XMas 2011, the THG best picks from the December roundup are right on.

 

[battousaik]

Hey, thanks for all the replies! If I were to wait for 2011’s components then what’s stopping me for waiting one more year after that. I’ve already waited two years to upgrade as the computer I have now is a budget system even by 2008 standards.

 

[Guest]

Buy a 5970, anybody who advises you to get a 295 needs a hard punch in the face for being so f%^£$ stupid.

 

[rhysdalegend]

Buy a 5970, anybody who advises you to get a 295 needs a hard punch in the face for being so f%^£$ stupid.

very true, 295's are over priced for their age and technology

the 5970 has a better longevity

 

[bystander]

What graphics card do you have now?

If you have something like an 8800gt, you could get the 5970 and use your old card for a dedicated physX card using a work around for the stop that Nvidia applied to it's drivers. http://www.overclock.net/graphics-cards-general/633137-guide-enable-ati-nvidia-physx-single.html is one such workaround.

 

[battousaik]

What graphics card do you have now?

If you have something like an 8800gt, you could get the 5970 and use your old card for a dedicated physX card using a work around for the stop that Nvidia applied to it's drivers. http://www.overclock.net/graphics-cards-general/633137-guide-enable-ati-nvidia-physx-single.html is one such workaround.

How would I step up a dedicated PhysX card considering my main graphics adpater is ATI? Could I use the GTS 250?

 

[bystander]

Yes, just click on the link I gave you. If you have a 2nd monitor to extend your desktop, you can skip step 2 and just plug your 2nd monitor in it.

I'm currently have it setup, and it's working well.

Here, follow this guide: http://www.overclock.net/graphics-cards-general/633137-guide-enable-ati-nvidia-physx-single.html

 

[battousaik]

I've heard Fermi mentioned. Will it be the next gen GeForce series because is seems more of a professional solution, like Quadro FX, from what I read from Nvidia's site. Can someone give me clearer information on this?

 

[bystander]

I've heard Fermi mentioned. Will it be the next gen GeForce series because is seems more of a professional solution, like Quadro FX, from what I read from Nvidia's site. Can someone give me clearer information on this?

No one knows for sure what all it will be released for, but the last I read, they were planning on having Fermi be the top of the line cards in the 300 series, and use their old technology for the mainstream graphics cards.

Top of the line could mean Quadro, but it could also mean the high end gaming cards too.

 

[dpizzle1968]

I've finally stepped away from the retail PC's and finally built my own rig. Main componets are as follows: Corsair Obsidian 800D case, Evga X58 760 SLI mobo, Intel 920 cpu, Thermalright ultra eXtreme 120 cooler, Corsair HX1000W psu, Intel 80G ssd, 2 1.5TB WD hd's, 2 LG Blu-ray burners, 12G of Patriot 1600MHz G series ram. I currently have an old Ati Radeon HD4850 1GB video card, which brings me to this forum. I've been trying to decide on a good choice. From what i've read it seems like the 5970 is overkill and a waste of money. I'm trying to decide between this card (5970) and the Evga Gtx 295. I've located one (Gtx 295) for about $300 that was used a short time for benchmark purposes. I am fairly new to this and have recently started gaming. Regarding the screen resolutions that have been mention I don't think the 5970 would be of any use as my single monitors max resolution is only 1920x1080(Samsung P2570). Any suggestions on either card, or things I should look out for if I decide to purchase this used card would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AMW1011]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-310-5970,2491.html
Looking at the THG December roundup, we see that 13 price category wins go to DX10 cards and only 2 to Dx11 cards. I think that's a pretty strong indication of just how important Dx11 is today.

DX11's impact on Game Experience:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dirt-2-performance-benchmark,2508-11.html
Having said that, should you wait for a DirectX 11 card to play DiRT 2? Decidedly, no. The DirectX 9 code path is so slick and beautiful that it's almost impossible to notice the DirectX 11 enhancements while playing.

PhysX Impact on Game Experience:
However, when PhysX is enabled, it adds superlative nuances and really creates some “wow” moments. The chunky explosions, cloth effects, paper, fog, and environmental detail enhancements are very cool.....that the eye candy is a lot of fun to watch. Once you've turned it on, it's not something you'll turn off if your hardware can handle it.

No doubt, as game devs get to incorporate DX11 features into games, we will see much more from DX11....but we are not there yet. It took over two years to make Batman and most "impact" games hover on the 3 year development cycle. As we move on down the road, I expect DX11 will start to wow us between late summer and XMas 2011 but today's early Dx11 cards just won't have the power to deliver what these games offer. If you buy a DX11 card today, yes it will be able to play XMas 2011's big games ...albeit at reduced resolutions and features turned off. Even in a game like Dirt 2, where the DX11 enhancements are described as a "subtle increase in visual fidelity" the performance hit is describes as "colossal".

If as the OP originally posted, he isn't going to touch the box for 4 years....DX11 cards w/ a dedicated PhysX card for $65 is the way to go. But if, as most of here do, you are going to upgrade again between late summer and XMas 2011, the THG best picks from the December roundup are right on.

This is extremely misleading Jack and you know it.

1. DiRT2's min problem is that DX11 was patched in so the performance hit is colossal while the visual improvements are nil.
2. PhysX is dead, you forgot to mention that. There may be ONE more game that benefits tangibly from PhysX, but that might even be pushing it. Did you mention that Crysis still has the best in game physics of all time. and it was patched to incorporates PhysX, and only does so minimally.
3. Yes in a little over a year we should start seeing some nice DX11 games, which is why you buy a DX11 card now. Most people don't upgrade their GPUs more than every 2 years or so.
4. Why should he waste ANY money, even $65, on dead technology?

 

[welshmousepk]

Why should he waste ANY money, even $65, on dead technology?

+1

 

[JackNaylorPE]

This is extremely misleading Jack and you know it.

1. DiRT2's min problem is that DX11 was patched in so the performance hit is colossal while the visual improvements are nil.
2. PhysX is dead, you forgot to mention that. There may be ONE more game that benefits tangibly from PhysX, but that might even be pushing it. Did you mention that Crysis still has the best in game physics of all time. and it was patched to incorporates PhysX, and only does so minimally.
3. Yes in a little over a year we should start seeing some nice DX11 games, which is why you buy a DX11 card now. Most people don't upgrade their GPUs more than every 2 years or so.
4. Why should he waste ANY money, even $65, on dead technology?

Buying a 57xx DX11 card now for games of 2011 gets you one thing....it gets you a card that says DX11 on it but simply can't play DX11 games at 1920 x 1200 or above. The 5770 is wholly incapable of playing Dirt2 even w/ it's minimal incorporation of DX11.....today's hi end cards, once DX11 games of XMas 2011 hit will be in the same boat.

Just because someone pops on a forum and says PhysX is dead, I don't see the industry following suit. Ya may have noticed Asus's recent introduction of special PhysX MoBos and EVGA's recent introduction of matched GPU's w/o on board PhysX .... given the millions of dollars in investment I see hardware companies making in the technology versus your forum posting, I gotta go w/ the industry big wigs .....they get those the 6-7 figure salaries cause they get paid to know what they are doing. Asus and EVGA didn't get where they were today by continuously making bad decisions.

The success if both technologies will depend upon just what game developers do with it. If game devs incorporate PhysX like they did in Mirror's Edge, PhysX won't have much of a future....if done like Batman, people will be impressed and look for the technology. If DX11 continues with Dirt2 and Battleforge type of implementations, DX11 will be another dud like DX10. I for one will be looking for both to succeed .... though I am not much of a gamer. But if $65 gets people what I saw in Batman, I'd lay out out in heartbeat. Apparently there's enough ATI fans playing w/ PhysX to drive this thread past the 1,000 post mark in a few days.

http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/16223-nvidia-disables-physx-when-ati-card-is-present-98.html

If $65 is a big deal to you, then by all means opt out. That's less half the cost of a ticket to a pro sports game and certainly provides more hours of entertainment.

 

[bystander]

Just because someone says a 57xx can't handle DX11, doesn't mean it is so, either. What you really mean to say is the 57xx cards probably cannot handle tessellation in any forseeable games.

DX11 <> tessellation

DX11 does make tessellation availible, but there are many performance enhancing aspects of DX11 as well. The question is, how many will develope code for DX11 that include it's performance enhancements?

Here is one example of what I'm talking about: http://www.hardwareheaven.com/articles.php?articleid=140&pageid=4